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MGTOWs unsure what the point of old women is

The Golden Girls are unimpressed by MGTOWs

By David Futrelle

What’s the point of life? More specifically, what’s the point of living if you’re some old lady random dudes on the internet don’t want to bone?

That was more or less the question that one intrepid Man Going His Own Way put to his colleagues in the MGTOW subreddit not long ago. “I’m genuinely interested in what the purpose of old woman is,” wrote Governator.

Let’s assume that the granny in question is way past any thoughts of sex. She has some kids, some grandchildren, no husband or a husband who can’t get his willy up, some property, a proper job.

What’s her MO? Let’s assume that she is unhappy and bitter – what could be the reasons?

I don’t know, maybe she’s bitter she ended up with a grandson like you?

Any way to point her to a proper purpose in life?

​Reason: a relative of mine.

As you might imagine, Governator’s pals had some thoughts on the matter.

“Baking cookies for the grandchildren,” wrote one. Teaching grandchildren skills they don’t need “like sucking eggs or darning socks,” wrote another, and serving as “a cheap babysitter.”

“They help and guide others with their decades of experience and wisdom. Sometimes.” wrote another MGTOW Redditor a bit more generous in his appreciation of old women than his MGTOW buddies.

Others weren’t sure the old gals had any reason to exist. “There isn’t a purpose,” wrote yooshio.

Old women aren’t women…they are simply old little girls.

They waste the resources they’ve accumulated throughout a lifetime…most likely procured from a man they’ve manipulated and nagged.

There is an overriding behavior I’ve noticed and that’s: manipulation.

It never stops.

My thesis is that character trait truly is genetic.

Another commenter seemed a little bit like he was working out some issues he has with his own female relatives.

Their life purpose is the same as ours: control. Men seek control and power through overt physical means with the world around them. Women seek it through covert means with the people around them. She will demand all her children and grandchildren communicate with her constantly so she can use guilt and withholding approval to control what they do, say, think, etc. Anyone who dares to withhold information or defy her will immediately become the black sheep of the family and have their social safety net torn away until they get back on granny’s plantation.

Hmm. Dr. Lechter, do you have any questions?

A commenter called user_miki couldn’t seem to get past the fact that some older ladies are out there having sex.

Before the madness an old lady had a vital social purpose.They advised young girls how to become women and what marriage is like and what men to seek for marriage.Don’t whore around, wait until marry to open up your legs,how to cook and be a good wife, aso. Now the old grannies are the first sluts after the sexual revolution.

Dude, if you’re interested, there are porn sites for that.

All of this raises a question: what is the point of MGTOWs?

I mean, even the most generous of MGTOWs seem to think that the value of old women stems entirely from what they do for others — whether baking cookies or dispensing wisdom. MGTOWs, meanwhile, are all about not doing things for others, about living their lives with as little responsibility towards anyone else as possible. They don’t simply advocate avoiding women. Some talk about dropping out of society altogether.

Basically, the only way they “give back” to society, in their own perverse way, is by urging other men to become MGTOWs like them.

So if MGTOWs do nothing for the world except make other MGTOWs who will also do nothing for the world, doesn’t that make them — by their own logic — worthless?

Just a thought.

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Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

My question to the MGTOWs: what will be your purpose when you get old? Never mind that, what is your purpose now? My grandmother, who is in her 80s, has certainly done way more for the world in her life than any of these MGTOWs. Not to mention that she is a far more pleasant person to be around.

Regarding porn featuring old women, I would somewhat worry that the kinds of things featured in hardcore porn would be dangerous for people of advanced age. The risk of injury seems very high.

Teabug
1 year ago

I have the same problem with showers. What; cologne ain’t good enough for ya?!

Lainy
Lainy
1 year ago

From the stories I’ve been told, my grandmother on my father’s side was a sweet, compassion woman who never had anything bad to say about anyone and was always looking out for others. She raised 11 children. She past away from breast cancer way before my mother even met my dad. But a story about her that stuck out the most was one my aunt told me.

While my grandmother was dying of breast cancer. She went with her to one of my grandmother doctor visit and their was a young man there that was just given his diagnosis of cancer a week ago. He was in his early 20s and my grandmother said to my aunt “oh that poor man. We need to make sure we pray for him” to which my aunt said “mom your a lot worse off right now then he is”. Even when her pain was greater then others and she face the oblivion of her own mortality. She only thought of others and what she could do to help them.

I suppose what I am saying is that my grandmother Had more compassion and humanity in a single one of her cells then a mgtow has in their entire bodies collectively.

Lainy
Lainy
1 year ago

My grandmother on My moms side. Who I did get to have in my life, was also a wonderful woman but she would have straight up told anyone dude from the manosphere to go fuck themselves. While my dad’s mom would have probably chasted sternly for not being upstanding men tbh.

Knitting Cat Lady
Knitting Cat Lady
1 year ago

The evolutionary advantage of elders is very well understood through observation of contemporary hunter/gather societies.

But the ignorance of one single MGTOW is enough to drain the knowledge out of a university library.

Can’t they just go already?

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@Knitting Cat Lady

The evolutionary advantage of elders is very well understood through observation of contemporary hunter/gather societies.

Then there’s all the things elders do in non-hunter gather societies. Many scientists and doctors continue working into old age and keep discovering new things that can benefit humanity. My grandfather, a professor, didn’t retire until he was 78, and even now, years later, he still goes to relevant conferences and comes out of retirement when needed. He’s not a scientist, but the same could hold true if he was.

Dormousing_it
Dormousing_it
1 year ago

My maternal grandmother was a saint on Earth. She was available for when her extended family needed help, but she never meddled in their business, and I never heard her complain about anything.

One thing…she was born in 1908, and I don’t think she ever fully became accustomed to telephones. She simply didn’t like answering the phone…my mother would give her a call, and then my sister and I, both under the age of 8 at the time, would take turns with the receiver pressed to our ears, waiting for her to finally answer the phone.

Her 3 children pestered her to get an upstairs phone extension in her bedroom, but she refused. Her single phone had to have dated from around 1940, and boy, was it heavy.

I wonder what she’d have thought about Smartphones.

Bananananana dakry: Short-Haired, Fat, and Deranged
Bananananana dakry: Short-Haired, Fat, and Deranged
1 year ago

The actual title should be more like “Old women unsure of what the point of MGTOWs is.” Pretty much everybody else is unsure too.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

I’ve had multiple jobs in which I’ve worked with seniors. 90% of the time, it is the wife that takes care of almost everything and the husband who doesn’t know basic things like his full address or what insurance he has. I don’t know if women’s brains age better than men’s or if it’s an issue of socialization, but anyone who spends significant time around older people noticed the pattern. It’s actually one of the reasons I don’t want to marry all that much and one of the things that pushed me towards realizing I was aro.

What I’m saying is not that old men are the useless ones, as I don’t think we should talk about people that way at all, but that MGTOW may regret calling old women useless when they’re 80 years old, defenseless and confused, while their married friends get cared for by their still sharp wives.

JenniferAndLightening
JenniferAndLightening
1 year ago

How very convenient that the point of women, old and young, just happens to coincide with what these guys want those women to be doing. And yet, as a woman, I am very sure that being somebody’s wife was never the point of my existence. Not even when I was married.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@WWTH
I’ve noticed the same thing. Women live longer than men on average, so it seems likely that their brains would age better as well. Though I will say, some old women seem to lose mental abilities as well: my great-grandmother had dementia for about 10 years before she died and didn’t recognize her own children. Her husband was dead by that point.
My guess is that few MGTOWs will live into their 80s. Male life expectancy in the US is 78, and people tend to live shorter if they are overly angry, which it seems these folks are. As well, single men live shorter lives, so that’s not in their favor. If they don’t give up MGTOW, it will reduce life expectancies notably.

KindaSortaHarmless
KindaSortaHarmless
1 year ago

@WWTH

In Japan, I’ve often heard as a bit of folk wisdom that women live longer than men because their husbands would starve if they died first.

Jesalin, Goddess of Lust & Pleasure
Jesalin, Goddess of Lust & Pleasure
1 year ago

Maybe they can get Mr White to cook for them.

The former Michelin star chef Marco Pierre White has come under fire for suggesting women cannot handle the heat of working in kitchens.

White, 57, suggested women were too emotional and not strong enough to carry heavy pans.

https://www.theguardian.com/food/2019/aug/30/marco-pierre-white-women-too-emotional-chefs

“Look at the size of some of the pans you are carrying. Can you imagine you’re a lady in the kitchen and saying: ‘Will you carry that pan for me?’”

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@Jesalin
That’s a new one. I thought the typical attitude of misogynists was that women should be in the kitchen, and men shouldn’t. He’d better sit down and have a talk with the MGTOWs from a few days ago.

In an interview with the Irish Independent, the TV presenter and restaurateur said: “The real positive with men is that men can absorb pressure better, that’s the main difference, because they are not as emotional and they don’t take things personally.

Yet I’m sure this boy would flip his lid if anyone were to question his masculinity.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

White, 57, suggested women were too emotional and not strong enough to carry heavy pans.

I bet a toddler, which women are expected to happily lug around, weighs more than any pan.

Nequam
Nequam
1 year ago

Professional cooking is kind of a sausage fest, in more ways than one.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
1 year ago

They waste the resources they’ve accumulated throughout a lifetime…

What does “waste resources” mean here? “Buy things I don’t approve of”? Why shouldn’t retirees spend their own money on what they want?

Or does he mean that more basic resources like food and medicine are wasted on old people? That’s uncomfortably close to “useless eaters”, and it’s a dangerous philosophy to champion if you’re planning to grow old without any family support.

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
1 year ago

They waste the resources they’ve accumulated throughout a lifetime…

What does “waste resources” mean here?

Perhaps the person is a Communist of the sort who favors authoritarian central planning and therefore thinks other people’s use of resources ought to be micro-managed? Certainly the data would seem to indicate this. 🙂

Dalillama
Dalillama
1 year ago

@WWTH

don’t know if women’s brains age better than men’s or if it’s an issue of socialization

The latter.

@Naglfar

Women live longer than men on average, so it seems likely that their brains would age better as well.

There’s not any evidence I know of that there’s a biological basis for that one. Social factors explain the difference quite well.

That’s a new one. I thought the typical attitude of misogynists was that women should be in the kitchen, and men shouldn’t. He’d better sit down and have a talk with the MGTOWs from a few days ago.

It becomes men’s work if you’re being paid for it.

The real positive with men is that men can absorb pressure better, that’s the main difference, because they are not as emotional and they don’t take things personally

BWAHAHHAHAHAHHAH!!!! Men who work in kitchens are the biggest fucking drama factories you will meet, by and large.

Dolarhyde
Dolarhyde
1 year ago

Did you misspell Hannibal Lecter’s last name wrong on purpose? Great gif use.

Moggie
Moggie
1 year ago

@WWTH:

Has everyone heard about Mr. Hipster Coffee Shop?

Securities fraud from three years ago? Seriously? When is this fucker going to face consequences for any of the scams he’s tried to pull since then?

Penny Psmith
Penny Psmith
1 year ago

Hey, if the thread’s already going off topic, can I throw in a book recommendation? I think there’s a good chance at least some of you are going to dig this:

https://sjhigbee.wordpress.com/2019/08/14/new-release-special-review-of-the-heart-of-the-circle-by-keren-landsman-brainfluffbookreview-theheartofthecirclebookreview/

Disclaimer: the writer is a friend of mine. But she’s seriously one if the best writers I know in Israel, especially in the SF/F scene, and the sort if person where I’m constantly a little surprised that I actually know someone this awesome.
(Another sort of disclaimer: the main character is somewhat biphobic, just so you know, but it’s not supposed to represent anything other than his own prejudices, as an imperfect character. I thought is was sadly very realistic.)

occasional reader
occasional reader
1 year ago

What’s her MO?

What ? Your granny is a serial killer ?

Pie
Pie
1 year ago

@weirwoodtreehugger

I don’t know if women’s brains age better than men’s or if it’s an issue of socialization, but

They’re practically the same thing. Old women kinda have to do stuff, because their partners won’t… they cook and clean (whilst they still can) and they talk to their peers instead of just quietly rotting away. The social side is vitally important because one day you won’t be able to do stuff anymore, and when your back and your hips and your fingers and your eyesight has given out, you’re gonna need something else to live for.

That “cheap babysitting” mocked in the thread? Dealing with tiny people is surprisingly good for your mental health and certainly keeps you active, and I note that more grandmothers seem to be involved in that than grandfathers.

@kindasortaharmless

In Japan, I’ve often heard as a bit of folk wisdom that women live longer than men because their husbands would starve if they died first.

Pretty much true the world over, to be honest. Men seldom outlive their wives. Once their partners are gone, the rotting away process tends to speed right up. Its a rare old man who has had a housekeeper, cook and live-in carer since he was married who can pull himself together and survive by himself when that support isn’t available anymore.

Pie
Pie
1 year ago

@Jesalin

Maybe they can get Mr White to cook for them.

The former Michelin star chef Marco Pierre White has come under fire for suggesting women cannot handle the heat of working in kitchens.

30 seconds with wikipedia:

Eugénie Brazier, known as “la mère Brazier” (12 June 1895 – 2 March 1977) was a French chef who, in 1933, became the first person and woman to earn six Michelin stars. […] This was unmatched for 36 years.

Another 30 seconds shows that Mr. White has been married 3 times, divorced twice and is separate from his most recent partner. When he says “can’t handle the heat”, what he means is “won’t tolerate abusive bullshit from chronic assholes like White”.

I recall hearing a female chef say something about how women often don’t stay chefs long, because they do things like getting married, or having children, and are far more likely to sacrifice their careers to facilitate their husband’s (alternatives weren’t mentioned), or to look after their children.

Knitting Cat Lady
Knitting Cat Lady
1 year ago

My maternal grandfather would have starved in a fully stocked pantry on his own.

My paternal grandmother was a manipulative emotional vampire and had her husband well trained to take care of her.

And yes, she did rot when he died.

Did I mention that my parents considered the mountain range between us and all their parents a feature and not a bug?

Moggie
Moggie
1 year ago

Clare Smyth, the woman named best female chef in the world last year, got her big break working under Gordon Ramsay. Read the linked article. Which of the two do you think has less emotional outbursts in the kitchen: her, or Gordon “not known for his calm demeanour” Ramsay?

rugbyyogi
rugbyyogi
1 year ago

Older women (and older men) do a lot of unpaid community labour. Some of it may not be particularly valued by your average MGTOW – some of it isn’t even particularly valued by me – but a lot this kind of coordinating voluntary work is what makes communities nice places to live and can provide essential services for some individuals or groups.

As to chefs – if a woman wants to be a chef and have children, she has to have a partner who really is willing to do more than his/her share of the childcare. Chefs tend to work hours when kids are at home, when paid childcare is less available and times when kids need a lot of hands on care – even at older ages. Male chefs with children are more likely to have a partner who will do that.

Plus if food is your passion, you don’t have to work in the food service industry to express that passion.

Personally, I could never have pursued that career because restaurant kitchens tend to be windowless and I don’t do windowless.

Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
1 year ago

Before the madness an old lady had a vital social purpose.They advised young girls how to become women and what marriage is like and what men to seek for marriage.

What the effin’ eff. Do MGTOW believe that it’s okay for a woman to choose whom to marry?

Hell must be freezing over.

Or else it’s just another fascist who’s lost the thread of his arguments.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@Dalillama

BWAHAHHAHAHAHHAH!!!! Men who work in kitchens are the biggest fucking drama factories you will meet, by and large.

That’s what I thought, from watching cooking shows where the male chefs were always flipping out (often in very sexist/entitled ways). My guess would be that Mr. White is the same way, from the way he talks.

@Pie

Dealing with tiny people is surprisingly good for your mental health

I was unaware of that. How does that work? Small children are not good conversationalists, so I didn’t think it would be a particularly intellectual task. At least, the times I babysat when growing up never seemed overly enriching.

@Kat

Do MGTOW believe that it’s okay for a woman to choose whom to marry?

I read that quote as suggesting that grandmothers would set up arranged marriages. That seems more in line with what MGTOWs want.

galanx
galanx
1 year ago

There are five known mammals that go through menopause: humans, orcas, short-finned pilot whales, belugas, and narwhals. The most agreed-upon hypothesis is the “grandmother theory”- these animals are able to assist their daughters in raising offspring; having a grandmother around helps in the survival of the young (note: does not apply to grandfathers, who do not provide assistance and as far as Ma Nature is concerned can just screw off and die).

Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
1 year ago

@Naglfar

Before the madness an old lady had a vital social purpose.They advised young girls how to become women and what marriage is like and what men to seek for marriage.

Do MGTOW believe that it’s okay for a woman to choose whom to marry?

I read that quote as suggesting that grandmothers would set up arranged marriages. That seems more in line with what MGTOWs want.

I don’t think so: “They advised young girls . . . what men to seek for marriage.”

But for the sake of argument, let’s say I’m wrong. It would still be true that this MGTOW has forgotten what he believes: Women, young or old, should have no rights.

Pie
Pie
1 year ago

@Naglfar

I was unaware of that. How does that work? Small children are not good conversationalists, so I didn’t think it would be a particularly intellectual task. At least, the times I babysat when growing up never seemed overly enriching.

There are probably a bunch of caveats, not least of which the benefit is probably mostly felt by older people spending time with tiny people… adolescent and younger adult babysitters probably don’t get nearly as much benefit, if any. Bear in mind though that “stimulating” isn’t necessarily the same as “intellectual”. Small people are somewhat mercurial and generally have limited attention spans and dealing with that unpredictability is probably good for you.

That said, don’t take my word for it, or pay too much attention to my uninformed guesses as to why it might work.

Interactive programs with preschool children bring smiles and conversation to older adults: time-sampling study

An evaluative study of the benefits of participating in intergenerational playgroups in aged care for older people.

Intergenerational Programs to Promote Active Aging: The Experiences and Perspectives of Older Adults

Moggie
Moggie
1 year ago

I like the idea of granny narwhals. Would there be knitting?

@Pie:

There are probably a bunch of caveats, not least of which the benefit is probably mostly felt by older people spending time with tiny people… adolescent and younger adult babysitters probably don’t get nearly as much benefit, if any. Bear in mind though that “stimulating” isn’t necessarily the same as “intellectual”. Small people are somewhat mercurial and generally have limited attention spans and dealing with that unpredictability is probably good for you.

My experience as an uncle is that it was a lot of fun to spend time with my nieces when they were kids. Also exhausting. But, in my case, I think this would only remain true in small doses. If I had to deal with kids every day, my patience would be quickly exhausted. I would make a bad parent and a worse teacher.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@Moggie

I like the idea of granny narwhals. Would there be knitting?

It’s too bad that only the males typically have tusks. Otherwise the grannies could pair up and use their tusks as knitting needles.

Gaebolga
Gaebolga
1 year ago

Moggie wrote:

I like the idea of granny narwhals. Would there be knitting?

I’m not sure there’d be time, given that they’re the jedi of the sea.

Stopping Cthulhu eatin’ ye is a full time job, don’cha know….

Moggie
Moggie
1 year ago

Oh Gaebolga no! Not the earworm!
Don’t make me retaliate with a Cyriak video!

Ann K
Ann K
1 year ago

I want to know, how old is “way past any thoughts of sex”? Because at my advanced age, “thinking” is about all there is.

Hambeast
Hambeast
1 year ago

These MIGTOWs seem to have a more calcified view of society than most seniors.

wwth – The Jacob Wahl thing is making me wish I hadn’t already done my jury duty service last January (I’m now exempt for three years, having served on a jury and not just shown up for the day and not gotten on a panel, which exempts you for a year.) Unless they drag this thing out for another three years, I have no shot. Of course, it’s more likely it’ll be settled out of court, but still, a useless old lady can dream…

Pie said

Its a rare old man who has had a housekeeper, cook and live-in carer since he was married who can pull himself together and survive by himself when that support isn’t available anymore.

My dad was one of those rare old men; he had some chops in the kitchen, but had to expand his repertoire beyond goulash, waffles, and cinnamon toast made in the oven. By the time I got out of the service, his enchilada casserole was to die for! Plus, he already knew how to darn socks using a light bulb as a darning egg. He also unstintingly gave me a lot of support when I went back to school; he did most of the cooking and laundry and I mainly did the shopping. A rare old man indeed, and I miss him every day.

Gaebolga
Gaebolga
1 year ago

@Moggie

Wow, that escalated quickly!

I yield…

lol

Jesalin, Goddess of Lust & Pleasure
Jesalin, Goddess of Lust & Pleasure
1 year ago

BWAHAHHAHAHAHHAH!!!! Men who work in kitchens are the biggest fucking drama factories you will meet, by and large.

Some pointed out that White himself had shown his fair share of emotions while on television. A former kitchen worker, James Ritchie, from Sunderland, said the comments contradicted his own experiences.

He said: “The few women I worked with were in complete control of their emotions and handled pressure and casual sexism with aplomb, whereas many male colleagues regularly had tantrums, lost control, and were abusive to other members of staff because of the pressures of working in a high-end kitchen. Not unlike a certain Marco Pierre White back in his heyday.”

Mabret (née Laugher at Bigots)
Mabret (née Laugher at Bigots)
1 year ago

I must ask why people must have points at all. I should think people are ends in themselves. This is a fascist, misanthropic view they have, that a person is only worthwhile if they are useful for some higher purpose, whether to be burnt as fuel for the capitalist war machine or to stroke endlessly the ego of an imaginary celestial despot.

I can only think of a quotation from one of Ayn Rand’s books: the hero, Kira, says, “What are your masses [of humanity] but mud to be ground underfoot, fuel to be burned for those who deserve it?”

Hambeast
Hambeast
1 year ago

Mabret – I was trying to think of a way of saying what you said. Thank you for succeeding where I failed.

Katamount
1 year ago

Did everybody get a chance to laugh at Kevin Sorbo’s latest, yet? 😀

Cat Mara
Cat Mara
1 year ago

Marco Pierre White was the enfant terrible of the British restaurant scene in the 80s, famous for tantrums of such volcanic intensity that even Gordon Ramsay would be like, “steady on, old chap, don’t you think you’re overreacting just a bit?” In the 80s. Now, he’s a tedious old has-been who shills stock cubes for Knorr but still feels the need to run his mouth in public every once in a while.

The late Anthony Bourdain, no stranger to tantrums and generally shitty behaviour himself, maintained that the women in his kitchens were tougher than the men, precisely because of the drama and bullying that went on in them. And he did later apologise for the toxic environment he encouraged in his efforts to be the edgy, badass, asshole-genius chef he thought he had to be. Then he took his own life and we’re left with Marco Bloody Pierre White because this is the worst timeline, as we all know ☹️

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Katamount,

Wow.

Part of me was giggling at that mess.

Part me of me was a little concerned as the US right is currently threatening violence if AR-15s are banned and this could just whip them into more of a frenzy.

Sigh

Gaebolga
Gaebolga
1 year ago

@Katamount

Shouldn’t that movie be titled Kevin Sorbo’s Not Dead 3?

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@WWTH

Part me of me was a little concerned as the US right is currently threatening violence if AR-15s are banned and this could just whip them into more of a frenzy.

I’m a bit worried about this too. I find it rather ridiculous that conservatives seem to think that threatening violence is a good argument in favor of gun ownership. The only impression I get from this is that those people should never have been trusted with guns in the first place.
I also find it ridiculous when conservatives seem to think that their guns are somehow enough to create a revolution, as the libertarians always say. Conservatives have too many guns, but if there were an armed uprising, their beloved military would be able to quash it and still make it to lunch. AR15s are useless when your opponent has M3s and B-52s.

Edward Lovejoy
Edward Lovejoy
1 year ago

For MGTOWs, the point of anything is its benefit or potential benefit to the MGTOW personally (or at least to men exactly like himself). “What is the point if old women?” to an MGTOW means “How can old women have any benefit to me?” and to ask “What is the purpose of MGTOWs?” is to an MGTOW a nonsense question, being interpreted as: “How does an MGTOW’s existence serve his self-interest?” The mistake is in thinking there is some other purpose or good to anything.