Categories
entitled babies evil sexy ladies men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny rape culture rapey roosh v sexual abuse sexual assault sexual harassment

Malaysian politician proposes, then retracts, law to prevent men from being “seduced” into raping women

How men work, according to one Malaysian MP

By David Futrelle

On Wednesday, a Malaysian member of parliament proposed a new kind of “Sexual Harassment Act” to help protect men from being “seduced” into raping or otherwise molesting women and girls wearing too-sexy clothes.

“I propose to the minister that we create a ‘sexual harassment act’ to protect men against the demeanor, words and clothing of women,”
Mohamad Imran Abd Hamid told the Malaysian parliament.

which can cause them to be seduced to a point where they commit acts such as incest, rape, molestation, pornography (sic) and others,

Such a law, he said, would ensure that “the men in this country are safe, and the country is peaceful.”

The proposal didn’t go over well, with Mohd Imran’s own party, the ruling Parti Keadilan Rakyat (PKR), rejecting it outright. And so, on Thursday, Mohd Imran apologized for hurting “the feelings of many women and also men, who feel insulted” and retracted his proposal.

Unfortunately the central assumption behind his proposal — that women are “asking for it” if they behave in certain ways or wear certain clothes — is shared by innumerable men (and quite a few women) around the world.

It’s especially widespread among men of the manosphere, who regularly rail against the alleged seductive power of women wearing yoga pants or short shorts as well as outfits that show a bit of shoulder. (Or even just arm.) Men’s Rights granddaddy Warren Farrell has been warning men for decades about the alleged “miniskirt power” and “cleavage power” of young women.

Meanwhile, our old pal enemy Roosh V, the rapey-pickup-guru-turned-raging-fundamentalist-Christian took to Twitter yesterday to warn against another deadly seductive threat to men: women wearing pants.

https://twitter.com/rooshv/status/1157077072990396416

Stay safe, men! Emulate the folks in Bird Box and wear a blindfold at all times every time you leave the house.

H/T — to Alan Robertshaw for the story and @Zemyla for the Roosh tweet

Send tips to dfutrelle at gmail dot com.

We Hunted the Mammoth relies entirely on readers like you for its survival. If you appreciate our work, please send a few bucks our way! Thanks!

Subscribe
Notify of
guest

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

152 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
rv97
rv97
2 years ago

@Allandrel @Naglfar

I live with individuals who believe being gay is a choice and hold pretty much nearly all the tenets of Catholicism to heart, and it’s shared by almost everyone in my immigrant community (except for perhaps some youths maybe, but IDK. I did hear a boy say that a Eve and therefore women are at fault for sinning though at a sermon for a service I had to attend. I may have been like that boy once, and would still have been like him had my experiences with religious individuals been more consistently positive throughout secondary school).

kupo
kupo
2 years ago

@rv97
And the Slymepit is full of misogynists, so surely all athiests are misogynists and we should all be anti-atheism. 🙄

rv97
rv97
2 years ago

@kupo

My main issue is that many people subscribe to the repressive mainstream teachings of religions or general philosophy and their socially conservative nature. There’s a strong cultural pressure worldwide to stay within such circles too.

Allandrel
Allandrel
2 years ago

@rv97

Here’s the thing: With your anti-religious rhetoric, you are pissing on your allies, and for what? To feel righteous?

All I’m hearing is yet another round of this old song:

Asshole: “All Christians believe X.”
Me: “That’s not true. I’m a Christian, and I don’t believe X. I believe Y.”
Asshole: “No, ALL Christians believe X. Therefore, you are lying and really believe X.”

(This is at least different from the assholes who answer “No, ALL Christians believe X. Therefore, you are lying and are not really a Christian.” It’s variety! Like getting to choose between excrement and vomit.)

And your “keep lesbian domestic abuse quiet” argument is complete bullshit. Abuse victims should stay hidden because… if they don’t, the homophobes will claim lesbians are evil abusers? THEY ALREADY DO THAT.

rv97
rv97
2 years ago

@Allandrel

I will admit I may remain resentful of my parents for reasons unrelated to gender, sexuality or even religion.

I just hate we can’t convince homophobes and transphobes that being gay or trans isn’t a choice. I just want to piss them off at this point, with my view on how I believe lesbians are better than straight women.

The thing is, it’s endorsed by mainstream religious institutions to follow their interpretation of religions, which is close to fundamentalist or otherwise socially conservative, and they’re quite successful in doing this. Religious institutions advise people to observe even the bad stuff like Leviticus 20:13, Sodom and Gomorrah, every single verse as a sign of their dedication to their faith. There’s a phrase called “cafeteria Catholic” used to shame Catholics who don’t fall in line.

So technically, Christians and Muslims who are OK with people leaving especially the latter religion, supporting LGBT rights, being OK with recreational sex, taking soft recreational drugs, listening to heavy metal, supporting abortion etc. are infidels or heretics. The scriptures take precedence, or the sheer power of mainstream religious institutions and the people who support them will.

To be fair, I am someone who does not want to be seen as associated with any religion based on personal experience.

Naglfar
Naglfar
2 years ago

@rv97
Warning: block quotes

I just hate we can’t convince homophobes and transphobes that being gay or trans isn’t a choice.

You can likely convince many bigots to give up their bigotry, but slamming their religious identity is not the way to do it. When you say that someone’s religion is bad, they will likely get defensive and stop listening to you.

I just want to piss them off at this point, with my view on how I believe lesbians are better than straight women.

They’re not the only ones you’re pissing off. People don’t choose their sexual orientation, the same way they don’t choose their own ethnicity or height, and so all you’re doing is discriminating again. In fact, you sound a lot like the fundamentalists who say that straight people are better. Not to mention your lack of caring for lesbian victims of abuse.

mainstream religious institutions to follow their interpretation of religions, which is close to fundamentalist or otherwise socially conservative

That’s a generalization. For one, a number of religions aren’t fundamentalist. For two, a lot of religions don’t have a central hierarchy (Judaism, Islam, most forms of Buddhism, Hinduism, etc) and so there isn’t one set interpretation.

Christians and Muslims who are OK with people leaving especially the latter religion, supporting LGBT rights, being OK with recreational sex, taking soft recreational drugs, listening to heavy metal, supporting abortion etc. are infidels or heretics.

I don’t think the ones who fit that category think of themselves as heretics. I know plenty of liberal Christians and Muslims who do not think they are heretics and seem to obey all the central tenets of their respective religions while still being accepting and liberal.

I am someone who does not want to be seen as associated with any religion based on personal experience.

Nobody’s saying you have to be. Just stop hating all of those who are based on generalizations.

kupo
kupo
2 years ago

I just want to piss them off at this point, with my view on how I believe lesbians are better than straight women.

Well, you’re not as accomplishing that. Instead, you’re harming lesbians, straight women, men who don’t abuse their partners, trans men, etc. etc.

If you have an issue with conservative viewpoints, then say that. But you’re not, you’re attacking all religious people and honestly making me embarrassed by association because I’m an athiest but I can understand that organized religion =/= individuals who follow a religion.

rv97
rv97
2 years ago

@Naglfar

That’s a generalization. For one, a number of religions aren’t fundamentalist. For two, a lot of religions don’t have a central hierarchy (Judaism, Islam, most forms of Buddhism, Hinduism, etc) and so there isn’t one set interpretation.

I will admit that I am quite uninformed in this aspect, especially regarding Islam. From the little bit of research I’ve done, the Ahmadiyya Muslim community are widely derided by mainstream Muslims and are considered non-Muslim for some of the tenets they support. So yes, while Islam may not have a central authority unlike Roman Catholicism or various Orthodox and maybe Protestant churches, I’m under the impression that that religion operates under a fundamentalist hivemind regardless.

I don’t think the ones who fit that category think of themselves as heretics. I know plenty of liberal Christians and Muslims who do not think they are heretics and seem to obey all the central tenets of their respective religions while still being accepting and liberal.

Sadly people may still not give a shit. Also, more fundamentalist interpretations of religion insist that everything is a central tenet to the religion, even the intolerant and repressive passages.

@kupo

I do have issues with conservative viewpoints. I will say I haven’t really realized how harmful such a mindset is regarding lesbians. As for my opinions regarding religion, I find it will be harder for me to deal with as it’s a more pertinent issue in my life (I’m from a rather religious immigrant community, and owing to personal experiences, I’ve diverged from their views).

Naglfar
Naglfar
2 years ago

@rv97

I will admit that I am quite uninformed in this aspect, especially regarding Islam…I’m under the impression that that religion operates under a fundamentalist hivemind regardless.

You’ve admitted you don’t know much about something, yet you continue to make claims about it. Maybe learn first, then make judgements later.

Also, more fundamentalist interpretations of religion insist that everything is a central tenet to the religion, even the intolerant and repressive passages.

Like I have said, most religious people in the world are not fundamentalists and don’t care what the fundamentalists think of them. I, for example, don’t care what the ultra Orthodox Jews think me (probably don’t approve).

rv97
rv97
2 years ago

@Naglfar

I just hope that meaningful liberal change can happen nevertheless. I’ll leave it from here now.

An Impish Pepper
An Impish Pepper
2 years ago

I think I can see part of where rv97 is coming from. I recall that at least some people here have been in the “new atheist” movement to some degree at some point. One of the draws of a movement like that is the sheer influence of social conservatism in the overall collective impression of organized religion. From fundamentalists in the U.S. to the core of the Catholic Church, where a pope saying God doesn’t care if you’re gay is considered outrageously progressive somehow, social conservatism has done a lot to give the impression of being the one true organized interpretation of religion. For some of us, the idea that non-conservative religion is not a desperate aberration but an entire theology on its own is relatively new. It’s not like most people freely discuss their religious beliefs, so it’s easy to self-confirm the notion that anyone who isn’t a social conservative must be an atheist. It’s a lot like the idea that a lot of people have that most of the features of neoliberalism have always been a part of human history and are not just the result of reactionary policies enacted 40 years ago.

So I say all this to say that religion just doesn’t actually work the way fundamentalists and “new atheists” think it does. In terms of concrete beliefs, right-wing believers and right-wing atheists have more in common with each other than with their left-wing (or even centrist) counterparts. Holy texts can be interpreted in all sorts of different ways. Religious labels don’t really refer to rigorous belief systems, just expressions of culture. Identifying as a Christian just means you were probably born in a European country or a former European colony, nothing more. Criticizing religions for social conservatism is about as nonsensical as claiming that Nazis are socialists because it’s in the name.

Allandrel
Allandrel
2 years ago

@rv97

So technically, Christians and Muslims who are OK with people leaving especially the latter religion, supporting LGBT rights, being OK with recreational sex, taking soft recreational drugs, listening to heavy metal, supporting abortion etc. are infidels or heretics.

Well, which is it, infidel or heretic? Those words mean very different things. But either way, nice to know that you are the Arbiter of Real Christianity/Islam and can declare who the infidels and heretics are.

Which makes it seem like you’re going with “Not a Real Christian” for me. Won’t be the first (or hundredth) time some has thrown that my way because I don’t meet the stereotypes they cling to.

For the record, I’m a Quaker (Friends General Conference). And my political positions, particularly regarding race, gender, sex, and LGBT+ issues, are perfectly in line with my sect’s longstanding views on these issues.

The Friends General Conference doesn’t really have a position on Trinitarianism or Panentheism, so my being a non-Trinitarian Panentheist doesn’t make me a heretic, either. And while my pacifism is not “total pacifism,” that is also supported.

I’m also Totally Metal, but the Conference doesn’t really have a position on that at all. Though I personally think the Metal Uniform of t-shirt, jeans, and boots certainly meets the modern definitions of plainness.

Naglfar
Naglfar
2 years ago

@Impish Peeper

In terms of concrete beliefs, right-wing believers and right-wing atheists have more in common with each other than with their left-wing (or even centrist) counterparts.

I’m fond of saying Ben Shapiro has more in common with the Westboro Baptist Church than with any Jews I know. That’s basically the horseshoe effect in a nutshell.
comment image

Holy texts can be interpreted in all sorts of different ways. Religious labels don’t really refer to rigorous belief systems, just expressions of culture.

Well said.

@Allandrel

I’m also Totally Metal, but the Conference doesn’t really have a position on that at all.

I should hope that if the Conference does take a position it is in favor of METAL!!!

Dalillama
Dalillama
2 years ago

@An Impish Pepper

I think I can see part of where rv97 is coming from. I recall that at least some people here have been in the “new atheist” movement to some degree at some point. One of the draws of a movement like that is the sheer influence of social conservatism

Although in practical terms, much of New Atheism is about maintaining that social conservatism, just cutting out the religion.

@rv97
‘Heretic’ is only meaningful in relative terms. According to Catholicism, all protestants are heretics. According to Shi’a Muslims, Sunni Muslims are heretics. And, from a nonreligious perspective, nobody is a heretic, because the word only has meaning in the context of a schismatic religion undergoing internal disputes over doctrine. Infidel likewise only has meaning in the context of a religion which claims to be the sole valid one: from a Christian perspective, Muslims are infidels, and vice versa. A pantheist and an atheist would say nobody is an infidel, although for different reasons.

Allandrel
Allandrel
2 years ago

One more thing: rv97’s “right-wingers represent Christianity, and any Christian who isn’t a vicious homophobe is a schismatic heretic” talk is a perfect example of a phenomenon I’ve noticed with a lot of people who grow up within fundamentalist households.

They reject all of their parents’ religious claims… except one:

“We represent Real True Christianity, and anyone who disagrees with us is not really Christian.”

That one they not only continue to accept, but actively promote, as we’ve seen here.

I wonder why that is? Perhaps because deciding that all Christianity (and in many cases, all religion) is exactly like their parents means they don’t have to learn anything or deal with complicated situations?

rv97
rv97
2 years ago

The Catholic church is strongly against abortion and recreational sex, so I’m not sure if someone can be considered Catholic and agree with those things. At best I think, Catholics who are OK with these things are probably only into it because their faith is deemed weak or whatever.

To be fair, I am part of an immigrant community who would tenaciously hold on to Catholic beliefs far more strictly compared to like, other Catholic majority nations I think. They’re all very observant of prayers, they don’t have sex unless it’s to make babies and they oppose abortion. I’ve not met a progressive in real life who considers themselves Catholic or religious unless they were, as you said, part of the Quaker church or in my case, a local Unitarian church, both cases of which are rare to me. My parents could hardly believe people considered Christians here in the UK (the UK isn’t very religious for one but they may just say they’re Christians because God forbid if they aren’t) and their experience is that they’ve come across a lot of “broken families”, helping them to affirm more the truth and primacy of the Catholic church and socially conservative family values. It might be different with younger generations (they may be a little more accepting of LGBT individuals), but I’m not entirely sure, when I’ve come across a stranger on a social network full of teens and young adults who wanted gays dead for religious reasons (and because they were disgusted with them, thinking they’re corrupting children with homosexuality).

Although I am aware of atheists who are socially conservative (e.g. fucking Dave Cullen with his views on gender even among cisgender individuals and his views on abortion), I just find it hard to separate religions from social conservatism. Most people would consider being religious more often than not a good thing, and religious texts have passages that promote socially conservative values, like how the father is the head of the household, the importance of a biological and/or close-knit family that should only be broken in cases of severe or persistent physical abuse or neglect by the parents and/or carer and with the obedience of children to their parents, the importance of prayer, saving sex before marriage or facing God’s wrath for daring to fuck even just another adult of the opposite sex in private because you wanted to and/or breaking any of the other aforementioned.

I think atheism appears superior in this case because it’s harder to point to firm evidence as to why people should live a certain way and hence harder to force people to live in any certain way at all. In my experience, people who seemed to come from backgrounds where religion wasn’t very influential seemed to be far freer in terms of how they expressed themselves – they expressed themselves in gender non-conforming ways (to me), listened to a wider variety of music and had a broader variety of interests. This was all before they were old enough to worry about more adult stuff like sex, marriage, family and alcohol. Philosophy of man appears far easier to debunk than philosophy of God. If the philosophy of God didn’t exist, then change is more likely to happen and I believe diversity can better flourish from it without fears of being sent to hell or other divine intervention.

Lainy
Lainy
2 years ago

Rv97

If your not Catholic shut the fuck up about Catholics and what Catholics believe in and whether someone is a good or bad calthoic. Literlay the priest at my fiancee and I’s church identifies as asexual and is always at the fundraiser that my college has to help homeless lgbt youth. Also if you don’t think Catholics fuck just to fuck you have the most backwards views and are detached from reality. Are you determined to just offended as many people as you can on this blog?

Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
2 years ago

rv97, I’m not quite clear on what your comment is trying to say. Catholics can (and do) disagree with official church doctrine. Catholics who are less involved with the church are still catholics, even if they’re not there every sunday (if they choose to identify as such).

You keep giving examples of a single person, and saying they define their entire group. That doesn’t seem like a great way to go about it, really.

Or do you want someone from the dirtbag left like Aimee Terese to define it?

Perhaps that mass shooter who was a ””’leftist””’ shows that the entirety of the left are violent, mass shooting, misogynists?

rv97
rv97
2 years ago

@Lainy

No, but I believe I am in some difficult situations, and the way this world’s going seems to not be helping.

I am of a Catholic background too, but I find myself disliking religion based on personal experience and based on the mainstream institutions’ philosophies.

I believe that asexuality may be perceived as something superior to heterosexuality though if especially conservative religious individuals were more informed about the LGBT community.

I will shut up from now on in this thread.

kupo
kupo
2 years ago

I am of a Catholic background too, but I find myself disliking religion based on personal experience and based on the mainstream institutions’ philosophies.

But where you’re going wrong is that instead of hating on the Catholic Church, which does have some awful policies and needs to be held responsible for them, you’re hating on Catholics as a whole, and trying to be arbiter of who is and is not Catholic at the same time. I doubt many people in here would complain if you said you dislike the Catholic Church’s views on abortion. However, expanding that out to all Catholics is a huge problem.

Allandrel
Allandrel
2 years ago

@rv97

I am of a Catholic background too, but I find myself disliking religion based on personal experience and based on the mainstream institutions’ philosophies.

Okay, one last time:

Catholicism does not equal religion.

What the FUCK does Catholicism have to do with, say, Jainism? Not a damn thing. But you’re SO eager to tar every religion and religious person as being exactly like the worst Catholics that you’ve encountered that you don’t want to learn anything that might dispel your prejudices.

There are people right here, on this thread, explaining how we differ from your pretend image of All Religion Is Right-Wing Catholicism and all you say in response is “but right-wing Catholics say…”

It’s like trying to have a conversation with a pull-string doll.

I’ve not met a progressive in real life who considers themselves Catholic or religious unless they were, as you said, part of the Quaker church

Speaking of “not wanting to learn,” there is not a “Quaker church.” We are a religious movement (really more of a series of religious movements), organized into several associations that are… well, associations, not churches.

As for your not having met these people… gee, I wonder why religious progressives might be hesitant to tell you about their religious beliefs? It couldn’t be the constant slamming of all religious people because your family are dicks.

Speaking of which, seriously knock it off with the “group with X trait are superior to group with Y trait” bigotry of “lesbians are better than straight women,” “asexuals are better than hetersexuals,” “atheists are better than the religious,” etc. That’s no different from the people slamming on LGBT+ people except for your choice of targets.

I’m just going to quote Superman again:

“I care about everyone. But right now, you’re pushing it.”

Lainy
Lainy
2 years ago

I believe that asexuality may be perceived as something superior to heterosexuality though if especially conservative religious individuals were more informed about the LGBT community.

Okay what the fuck is with you wanting to shit on straight people as well? no asexuality is not superior to heterosexuality because no one sexuality is superior to another. Just like no race is superior to another one you god damn… you know what I really do believe your just trying to piss of as many people as you can. You want shit on the concept of all religion by calling anyone with spiritual beliefs jerks. You want to shit on straight people who can’t choose there sexuality just like anyone else. You know shitting on an entire group does nothing to stop the problematic people or concepts within those groups.

Lainy
Lainy
2 years ago

Rv97 next topic will be if you don’t hate black people your not really a white person or some bullshit like that.

Lainy
Lainy
2 years ago

Also rv97

sorry this turned out to be a bit of a rant, but at this point I’m just really angry. If you anyone doesn’t want to read about my priest feel free to skip this. I know the Jesus type religions have a lot of problems and that this can be a sensitive topic for many.

My priest does have an understanding of lgbt community. He doesn’t identify as asexual because he’s taken a vow of celibacy. He took the vow of celibacy and joined the priesthood because he is asexual. He believes his sexuality was God tell him that the path of family and marriage was not for him. That he is suppose to be a spiritual guide to others, and do good in the world by joining the priesthood. By being a charitable, poverty living, selfless person. He believes that god made him asexual when he was born, so that he could be what the church is suppose to be. a safe heaven.

A lot of the people that attend my church are part of lgbt community because they know it’s a safe place where no will be preaching fire and brim stone because of who they love or are attracted to. In fact he preaches that something that is formed in love, can never be evil. Hell even the pope, the head of the catholic church, has made a point that lgbt people are welcome into the catholic church, or at least their suppose to be. Is pope Francis perfect? no, but he certainly a much modern pope then many priest are suppose to be. I don’t like your insinuation that my priest and good friend doesn’t understand his own sexuality and is simply choosing it because he’s religious.

He is a loving open man who is the most opened minded priest I have ever met. The thing that made me give church another chance instead at home prayer was him. 2 years ago during their winter fundraisers where they try to get food and coats to the poor and homeless he did something that made me decided to be apart of this church. He tried to involve not only catholic churches in this fundraiser, but Jewish synagogues in the area, the Muslim mosques, and any non religious or even atheist people to be involved. Because wasn’t about Jesus, it was about helping the less fortunate who need a community to back them. As he put it when I asked him about it whether you are a disciple of Muhammad, a child of Abraham, or a member of the body Christ, we all have a human duty to help others in need.

rv97
rv97
2 years ago

@Lainy

I’m sorry if I broke my vow of silence, but I live in an LGBT friendly town. Unfortunately, I cannot guarantee it is completely despite it having hosted a pride event, with the Salvation Army doing business here (I NEVER do business with them) and a large immigrant and international student community who may be new or only temporarily staying here. I like that it’s LGBT friendly, but because this place is so accepting, I’m worried it’s encouraging people to be tenacious to their faiths too, and I fear that individuals like homophobes will be empowered.

Places like Poland have had violence happen in the name of the Catholic church as well as social conservative and Polish values in a recent anti-LGBT backlash that’s been supported by their ruling political party and a large majority of its citizens. I think LGBT Poles and others should be offered the ability to leave places that are unfriendly to LGBT-friendly individuals, but I don’t think that we should let people who have no intention of changing their attitudes to the LGBT community and support for repressive social conservatism, which unfortunately may have been the case for people like my parents, settle in to more liberal communities for the sole purpose of money, especially if parents want their children to inherit their values. I fear that my immigrant community from the Philippines, or at least my family, could be the case here.

The Vatican still isn’t accepting of transgender individuals and officially still endorses gender conformity and the binary, which still pisses me off. Generally, people will accept what the Vatican say about almost everything – despite Pope Francis’ attitudes on divorce, the Philippines still hasn’t legalized divorce as an (extreme) example, with Malta (or Ireland, I can’t remember) being the most recent ones to have done it. Abortion remains illegal in several countries, I believe with popular support too. Social liberals are persecuted worldwide because of socially conservative philosophies.

I am also aware that being ace isn’t a choice, but I think it would be far more conducive to helping people put off sexual activity with others, where those who aren’t asexual will struggle to cope. Now, I will admit that I’m not sure if this will stop behaviours like masturbation, and asexual people may still sleep around to try and discover or affirm their sexuality, but I believe their lack of drive to fuck others would help fulfill socially conservative values of delaying sex for procreation in a heterosexual marriage or just otherwise give individuals no drive to be involved in the complicated world of sex in general.

Now this is my final time on this thread. I’m sorry for wasting your time. If I don’t shut up, I will welcome any temporary mutes or any form of action necessary as long as I can still read articles from this website.

Lainy
Lainy
2 years ago

rv97

What the fuck are you on about. What does that have anything to do with what I said. Are you ever going to address anything someone says to you? how about you learn to use a block quote and fucking respond to what people say to you, you little ass.

An Impish Pepper
An Impish Pepper
2 years ago

I think it’s that centrist argument that sometimes gets made about how pushing too many progressive causes will inflame the far right and spur them into action. Progressive Americans elected a black president and started pushing for “ideological purity” (i.e. criticizing anti-abortion and anti-LGBT Democrats), so conservatives responded with Trump. Centrist Ontarians went ahead and elected a lesbian premier who advanced a fair amount of socially liberal causes, which was a mistake because only a “real” centrist party could have stopped Ford. Anti-Brexit Britons went ahead and struck down Theresa May’s Brexit proposals, so conservatives responded with Johnson. And so on. It’s a shitty and wrong argument on many levels.

kupo
kupo
2 years ago

I am also aware that being ace isn’t a choice, but I think it would be far more conducive to helping people put off sexual activity with others, where those who aren’t asexual will struggle to cope.

Wtf did I just read?

Weren’t you just complaining that religious folks will impose chastity laws on you, and now you’re praising ace folks because maybe they’ll “help” people “put off sexual activites”?

What the fuck is wrong with you?

Lainy
Lainy
2 years ago

@kupo

Anyone not straight or cis gender is holly and pure to rv97. Despite all the evidence that they are actually people that rv97 wants to ignore because how else will they push their idea of straight people all evil and lesbian love so pure and beautiful.

rv97
rv97
2 years ago

@kupo we are powerless, us social liberals

rv97
rv97
2 years ago

They will come to establish more power, and because they can claim homosexuality and abortion are contrary to the values of their religion(s) with little accountability based on what their texts say, we’re fucked.

Moon_custafer
Moon_custafer
2 years ago

@Kupo

Weren’t you just complaining that religious folks will impose chastity laws on you, and now you’re praising ace folks because maybe they’ll “help” people “put off sexual activites”?

I thought rv97 was implying that aces are a Trojan horse for conservatism, by setting an example that can be used as a stick to beat everybody else?

rv97
rv97
2 years ago

How the fuck, for instance, can we prove to them abortion should be available when they’re convinced (and I admit I am too in some cases) that it’s murdering an unborn foetus? How do we convince them that being gay is not a choice? How do we convince them that having sex outside of marriage shouldn’t be treated like murder?

kupo
kupo
2 years ago

and I admit I am too in some cases

FUCK.
OFF.

Lainy
Lainy
2 years ago

@rv97

We fucking don’t have to. Not everyone has to be convinced on something for it to be good. Some people (incels) should be able to rape any woman they want. No one is gonna grant a law that gives some 12 year old virgin sex slave to incels to have as pets. We don’t need incels to fucking agree with us for them to be wrong. Also fucccckkkk you. An abortion is never a murder to you piece of shit.

Lainy
Lainy
2 years ago

Its official Rv97 is an absolute anus.

rv97
rv97
2 years ago

I would genuinely like to know how it’s not murder. At least from what I’ve picked up, a bundle of cells can be considered “life”. The problem is with abortion, I agree morally with the left but practically with the right. I do agree that restricting abortion is misogyny, but I guess the pressure for me to conform to Catholic teachings and some of my conclusions do make me agree with the right in a few cases.

Lainy
Lainy
2 years ago

@rv97

Because when I had a fucking miscarriage it wasn’t an infant suicide. I rolled it up into toilet paper and threw it away in trash. If it gets the same rights as murder, that’s unlawful disposable of a body. But it’s not is it? Fuck off. Catholic teachings don’t make you agree with the right. You do that because your a piece of shit. Both my fiancé and I had those up brings we don’t believe abortion is murder, we don’t believe lgbt are wrong or evil, we don’t believe it’s wrong to have premarital sex. We do that a lot, with many different people, with many different people watching and partaking. What I do believe is that your one bullshit troll who needs to fuck off right to hell.

Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
2 years ago

omg I am NOT HERE for another abortion argument, rv97. I can’t deal with that right now.

I think you’ve officially hit the ‘time to email David and ask for a time out’ status.

Here are two different threads where we talk an awful lot about abortion with a different commenter, perhaps you could start there and read through some of the linked resources.

Lainy
Lainy
2 years ago

If abortion was ever considered by law murder, then I think we should also hold infants that kill women in childbirth as murders as well. Have a trail, lock them up for killing their mothers. Put them in minor prison for 18 years and then have murderer on their public record when they get out for jobs and crap. Because that’s equally as ridiculous as calling abortion murder.

kupo
kupo
2 years ago

@rv97
Is it murder for me to refuse to donate blood to you, even though I’m healthy enough to do it and even if not doing so would save your life?

Denying another already born human access to my organs wouldn’t be murder. Why is it different with a not-even-developed fetus?

Again, FUCK. OFF.

Lainy
Lainy
2 years ago

And when both mother and child die during child birth, that’s a murder suicide masterminded by the fetus. Because again, that’s equally as stupid as calling abortion murder.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
2 years ago

I’m sorry if I broke my vow of silence, but I live in an LGBT friendly town. Unfortunately, I cannot guarantee it is completely despite it having hosted a pride event, with the Salvation Army doing business here (I NEVER do business with them) and a large immigrant and international student community who may be new or only temporarily staying here.

comment image

Are they an infestation? The notion that a community might become more intolerant because of immigrants is quite a fucking take this week of all weeks.

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
2 years ago

@Allandrel:
My understanding is that the Society of Friends (Quakers) aren’t a hierarchical organization like the Catholic Church so much as a loose one with some basic tenets, an explicitly anti-hierarchical stance, and much of the rest done at the grassroots level more like the original Baptists. (And unlike the Southern Baptists, who have spent generations rebuilding a hierarchical organization while officially pretending they don’t have one.) And of course, they have their own breadth of opinion.

Much of the abolitionist movement was started and pushed by Quakers, even prior to the American Revolution. They were active in this both in the U.S. and the U.K., though they obviously succeeded a lot earlier in the U.K.

On the other hand, Richard Nixon was also a Quaker, and he was a rather less… enlightened personality on many things.

No matter what sort of religion (or lack thereof) a person follows, if they truly want, they will find some way to justify their personal bigotries using it.

Snowberry
Snowberry
2 years ago

This is still going on?

I would like to point out that some religious fundamentalists consider the death of a mother-to-be during pregnancy or from childbirth to be murder-by-God, which is always somehow for the greater good even if we can’t see how. Or, maybe even because he wants another angel or something, even though the bible never implies that humans can become angels.

Catalpa
Catalpa
2 years ago

I would genuinely like to know how it’s not murder. At least from what I’ve picked up, a bundle of cells can be considered “life”.

Sure, it’s arguably alive. But murder is a specific word used to describe the killing of people. Fetuses aren’t people. Taking antibiotics isn’t murder even though it snuffs out billions of ‘lives’. An abortion isn’t either.

I believe that asexuality may be perceived as something superior to heterosexuality though if especially conservative religious individuals were more informed about the LGBT community.

I parse this to mean: “Bigots conservatives like asexuals, since asexuals don’t fuck.”

And going by the logic of rv97, since lesbians are better that straight women because conservatives hate lesbians, therefore asexuals are worse than heterosexuals, since conservatives like them more. Or at least that asexuals are harming the sexually active LGBT community by providing “ammunition” for conservatives. Thanks, buddy. Fuck you too.

And if you did mean to say that asexuals are better than heterosexuals or any other orientation, still fuck you. Orientation doesn’t make someone better or worse than someone else. How about you stop making sweeping value judgements on huge and diverse groups of people, you raging dickwad?

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
2 years ago

Common Law countries, including the US, always used to use Edward Coke (‘s definition of murder.

Murder is when a man of sound memory and of the age of discretion, unlawfully killeth within any county of the realm any reasonable creature in rerum natura under the King’s peace, with malice aforthought, either expressed by the party or implied by law, so as the party wounded, or hurt, etc. die of the wound or hurt, etc. within a year and a day of the same

Even in Elizabethan times it was accepted that you couldn’t be murdered until you’d passed through the birth canal and taken your first breath.

“If a woman be quick with child, and by a potion or otherwise killeth it in her womb; or if a man beat her, whereby the child dieth in her body, and she is delivered of a dead child; this is a great misprision, and no murder . . .”.

There’s a discussion of the history of all this in this case;

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld199798/ldjudgmt/jd970724/gneral01.htm

Naglfar
Naglfar
2 years ago

@rv97

I will shut up from now on in this thread.

Now how’s that going for you?

we are powerless, us social liberals

I’m beginning to question whether you are a social liberal. You sound more and more like a bigot, just a bigot who tries to use progressive language.

large immigrant and international student community who may be new or only temporarily staying here.

You sound like one of the white supremacists who tries to pretend they care about rape so that they can justify bigotry. Recall this post? You sound like that right now.

I believe that asexuality may be perceived as something superior to heterosexuality though if especially conservative religious individuals were more informed about the LGBT community.

And how does saying that one sexuality is better than another make you any better than the bigots you claim to oppose?

I would genuinely like to know how it’s not murder. At least from what I’ve picked up, a bundle of cells can be considered “life”.

A fetus can not survive on its own. For all practical intents and purposes, it is a part of its mother’s body. If a person gets their appendix removed (because it’s diseased, preemptively, whatever) is that murder? If that’s not, how is this any different? An appendix is made of living cells too.

You really do not sound liberal right now.

Allandrel
Allandrel
2 years ago

@Jenora Feuer

Nixon was almost certainly the Worst Quaker ever, though there is a lot of debate over whether the East Whittier Friends Church that he belonged to was Quaker in any meaningful sense. I’m not fond of that argument, as it strikes me as the kind of gatekeeping and No True Scotsman behavior that Quakers try to avoid.

Amazing thing about the Quaker involvement in abolitionism: A number of American Quakers were actually slaveowners during the 18th century, but John Woolman spent years visiting them, staying with them, and one by one convincing them that slavery was morally wrong and violated Jesus’ teachings.

Which is one reason that I hold out hope that even deliberately clueless numpties like rv97 can be reached.

Allandrel
Allandrel
2 years ago

@rv97

Wow, you’re not just doubling down, not just digging deeper, you’re finding all new holes to dig.