By David Futrelle
Incels talk a lot of shit about trans women, and trans folks in general, so I was a little perplexed when I recently ran across one incel Redditor seriously proposing that “trans people and incels should be allies.”
I was less perplexed when I saw the, er, reasoning behind his proposal, which was the same old incel song in a new key. Essentially, he thinks that trans folks are the only group of people as ugly as incels, so why not team up?
“Trans people are in one particular way the ugliest trucels there are,” writes future_serial_cryer.
They have the literal opposite dimorphic attributes needed for attractiveness. They have an insanely high suicide rate, and have always been intensely mocked in the public sphere. If I had the choice, I’d rather be my short ugly self rather than trans.
Well, I suppose you have to give him some tiny bit of credit for briefly transcending his incel narcissism and at least acknowledging that incels aren’t the only group of people who ever suffer.
The one thing they have going for them is their sexuality also tends to be nuked so they gather in LGBT groups and have sex with each other. It’s the ideal situation really, proper looks-matching.
Ok, you can almost hear his incel comrades ask, but what about the hot transes? You know, like Contrapoints, and the sexy trans women in the porn we jerk off to while crying?
That doesn’t mean there aren’t attractive trans people. Bone structure is bone structure after all, so you get ones like Contrapoints who can have a good life elevated above those who look like men in wigs.
But the main reason that incels and trans women should unite, he suggests, is that they share the same futile obsession: getting validation from cis Stacies:
the majority of online trans people are mtf, and all of them are desperate to be validated as women. cis women hold the key to that castle so in turn the mtfs become slaves, indebted to slave away online defending women and femininity in an attempt to mentally get a good boy ticket to the girls club.
So in closing I’d say I do criticise incels who mock how trans women look, because it’s one group we can actually punch down on in looks. But on the other hand to mtfs I’d say this: Deep down you and I both know that our life struggles have more in common than anything youself and cis women face.
Unsurprisingly, Mr. Cryer’s colleagues in the Braincels subreddit don’t find even his deeply transphobic argument persuasive.
“Trannies are failed incels,” writes someone called isolationtoolong.
They can’t have a girl, they punish themselves by becoming a girl themselves. No, we can never be allied.
Another commenter is mad that trans Stacies don’t pay any more attention to him than regular cis Stacies.
“The good looking trannies are for Chad only too bro,” complains OSRobo.
I’ve been rejected by trannies on dating websites. They probably wouldn’t even pass in real life. I’ll form an alliance with them when they actually start fucking me
So I guess that’s never going to happen, huh?
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yea no fuckin way Im reading this enraging shit rn but just wanted to say
trans women you are beautiful
& you dont owe it to anyone to be conventionally beautiful
how you look to others, even to yourself, is not your value to yourself, your loved ones and the world
I am not sure to alway correctly understand and I believe I have not alway been of proper etiquette toward trans people, but despite my failing I still gagged reading that rag. Outside of being inconsistent and wrong, it’s also disgustingly heinous.
Anyone else think that all the trans folks on Reddit should storm r/Braincels and post a ton of threads about how great it is to be trans and have sex?
Dude, what worries me more than anything is the fact that if you browse for 10 minutes on any space dedicated to incels, it’s filled with this overwhelming hatred and self-pity.
If you’re in a bad place emotionally/mentally, that shit can easily suck you in and indoctrinate you, because the underlying message seems comforting: You’re the victim in all this. It’s okay to be upset and bummed out.
They use that as a springboard for all this fucked up bigotry and entitlement, because then it turns into “I don’t deserve this. Why me?” “Because of them.” “Then screw them!”
I know from experience what it’s like to jump from sadness to anger, then apathy towards suffering because I’d become self-centered and completely focused on me.
That shit took years to fully shake off, but the problem with incels is that these spaces are basically the Oppression Olympics mixed with an echo chamber. Being told that you’re right and it’s someone else’s fault when you’re in that state of mind is like a drug. It’s addictive, and harmful.
I can’t help but feel like, barring a miracle, these guys are only gonna get worse, since all they’re hearing is more hateful, angrier versions of their own opinions, and since they all have the same problems for different assumed reasons, they internalize and amplify this rage and hatred. I only got out of it by going out and talking to people and getting help, even though I didn’t feel like I deserved it. It scares me to think of how I might have turned out if I had gotten into something like this. Because there’s always someone in these spaces that’s more toxic, and hatred spreads like a disease. That’s the last thing we need more of.
Sorta related: what do incels actually look like? I imagine they probably look like anyone else, but they constantly describe themselves as being hideous, so I’m not sure. I’ve never met anyone in real life who was an incel (knock on wood), so the only ones I’ve seen are ones like the bagel guy who end up in the media. Are they actually hideous, or just self-hating?
Clearly a plan without a flaw nor any possibility of error!
@Naglfar
They are typically fairly average looking.
@Tovius
As I figured.
Maybe these incels could be saved, but for now they simply resist any attempts to help them. I wish I could help some people escape, but I don’t even know where to start. I’d probably be turned away as a “normie” who doesn’t know the first thing about them. I’ve never been an incel, but I have had depression and I know how bad it can feel, and I also know that becoming an incel is a surefire way to make it worse by reinforcing the depressive ideas.
Then again, helping them escape means I’d have to put up with them for a while, and I don’t know if I can do that for any length of time.
It has nothing to do with trans people, but the way I see it, all incels are failed incels.
Incels are all over the map in regards to transwomen, seeing them anywhere from goddesses to trash lower than an incel. Regardless of how they see them, it’s through the filter of trans folk being fundamentally like them in some way. I’m pretty sure the vast majority aren’t incel-like in any way beyond very superficial ones, and would rather not be associated with them. Not that incels can easily distinguish the superficial from the substantial, they wouldn’t have fallen into their ways of thinking if they could.
@Snowberry
I’ve only ever heard incels refer to trans women negatively. When did they refer to them as goddesses? I’m not doubting you, I’m just curious.
@Naglfar: I don’t follow everything incels do, so I don’t know how common some attitudes are, but awhile ago I saw some talking about how they’re “better than real women” and suggested begging them for sex because they’d be sympathetic to the plight of incels. I mean, there’s a lot more negative than positive, because pretty much everything’s negative with that lot, but attitudes can vary wildly among differing subgroups. I should have probably said “fetish objects” rather than goddesses, because some of them have pretty negative attitudes about their own fetishes as well.
@Snowberry
I suspect that the majority of trans folk who are aware of incels are if anything more revolted by them than cis folk, for reasons that should be obvious. We absolutely are not associated with them, or like them in even superficial ways (statistically, anyway. There’s some people of every gender flavour who’d like to get laid and aren’t, but as has been extensively discussed here even that’s fairly tangential to incel bs.). Any road, at risk of possible TMI, isolationtoolong is deeply, deeply incorrect, which fact I can personally attest to at considerable length. (And many transfemmes never wanted to be with women to begin with, of course)
Yeah, and that undermines their whole argument. Trans people are just, you know, people. Not more or less conventionally attractive than cis people. The suicide rate is due to anti-trans hate. Not the way trans people look.
No thanks incels.
Wait, wouldn’t a “failed incel” just be someone that fucks? Isn’t that sort of the whole goal? To get laid and not be celibate?
@ Dalillama: Have you watched Contrapoints’ video about incels. If not, I recommend it.
David, aren’t you forgetting some people? Like, um :ahem: :cough: :cough: your friendly neighborhood commenters? :cough: :cough:
Not mentioning anyone specific, of course. Because I’m too beautiful to demean myself with vanity.
Ooops! I didn’t say that last part out loud, did I?
@Prith Kdar
I haven’t. Is there a transcript available?
Incredible how the dungeon is hurled at anyone already being pigeonholed even daring to be a supposed Stacey, as if one doesn’t have the right to vomit oneself into a coma at the extreme grotesqueness of such incel thinking. My body, nor is any other trans woman’s, accessible public property of the commons. Beautiful is what one is at every moment of one’s waking life, particularly striking when sharing it with a person of definite choice. An alliance with the functionally disturbed is not just illusory, but also completely unfathomable. How to touch onto something like that without wearing a biohazard suit?
It’s self-hatred coupled with harping about women and blaming women for all the ills of this world. I’m not very big on this original sin misogynism, but it only makes sense that eventually they would come after trans women in absolutely the same pattern of neolithic thinking.
Nokidscel is unique among incels: he is honest.
Congratulations, Nokidscel, on your honesty. I appreciate your lack of BS. That said, you are a terrible, terrible person.
An unintentionally amusing remark, given what ContraPoints used as the marquee image on her incels video:
http://newsbiztrends.com/pic/incels_contrapoints/ZkQyYnJpWjZmQjA_.jpeg
I find it highly amusing that they use Contrapoints’ bone structure as an argument for inborn beauty when… She had a video where she talked about having gotten FFS (and specifically mentioned having various bones reduced/amplified) and how she felt she was still not very beautiful, but it was better than before.
It’s almost like they didn’t even pay attention to what she was saying. Imagine my shock.
So, as have been asked many times before, why don’t incels just do that?
According to you, incels and trans people share the same basic problem and “just fuck each other” worked for the trans people (supposedly). So, why aren’t you just doing the same thing?
Oh right, because not even you can stand your company.
What does it mean for one’s sexuality to be “nuked”?