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creepy cringe misogyny sex sex miseducation TERFs transmisogyny transphobia

“Check out the vaginal mucus on her,” and other things straight dudes say to each other, according to some TERF

It’s all about the mucus

By David Futrelle

Generally speaking, it’s a waste of time for sensible people to argue with TERFs — that is, Trans-Excluding Radical Feminists. But on rare occasions it can be, well, highly illuminating. And weirdly entertaining.

Take, for example, the strange debate that broke out in J.K. Rowling’s mentions last night (FWIW, Rowling herself had nothing to do with it). After a long pitched battle over such fascinating topics as whether or not TERF is a slur (it’s not, BTW), one TERF demanded to know why a trans lesbian was interested in dating … other lesbians.

@TheaGardO replied that it wasn’t about the genitals: “No one can change sex … males never get a ‘fully female body.'”

Emma responded with a question, and a NEW HERO responded with an unexpected answer:

Er, what?

Someone called Malachite Tiger tried to tease out the implications with a sarcastic comment, and then things got EPIC.

Um …..

“Vaginal mucus is certainly a key element [of] what straight men are attracted to in female bodies.” That’s a slogan I’ve never seen on a t-shirt, that’s for sure.

I can’t speak for lesbians, but as a straight man, I have to say that the term “vaginal mucus” has never once popped into my head during a sexual fantasy. I’ve never heard a guy brag about his girlfriend’s awesome vaginal mucus, or suggest to me that I “check out the mucus” on some hot gal walking by.

Yes, straight guys tend to get psyched when a cis woman they’re with gets really wet down in that, er, humid region, though to be honest this is generally because they like to give themselves credit for this happy development. Some guys are obsessed with going down on cis women, and the taste is part of that whole experience; but other guys — as cis women understandably complain — aren’t.

Meanwhile, you have probably heard about the obsession many straight dudes have with putting their dicks in women’s butts, where, by definition, there is no vaginal mucus and the necessary lubrication comes in little bottles or tubes you can literally buy at any drug store. And guess what, either option down there feels pretty good for the guy.

Seriously, as long as a cis guy has some place to put his dick, or maybe a couple of options (not all of them necessarily located on the bottom half of the body), he’s generally pretty pleased. And there is obviously a lot more to sex than putting dicks in, well, whatever hole or crevice feels good to put them in. Sex is about more than genitals. And while your preferences are your preferences, and that’s fine, the people who are the most open about what counts as sex tend to have (and to be) the most fun.

The talk about vaginal mucus seems weird because it is weird. Love is about people, not about sexual organs and their particular secretions. Straight men (and lesbians, and bi or poly people of whatever gender) can and do enjoy sex with women who have surgically constructed vaginas, or no vaginas at all. Women (and gay men, and bi/pan folks) can enjoy sex with guys whose dicks aren’t even close to porn-star sized — and with guys who are impotent or literally have no dicks. Anyone confused by any of this can easily find numerous videos illustrating all these scenarios online, and many, many more.

TERFs are obsessed with “natiral” sex, but they talk about it as if they (and we) were Martians.

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Moon_custafer
Moon_custafer
1 year ago

Not sure whether it falls into the puppet-porn genre (which I guess we’ve just agreed is a thing), but there’s an odd short film called The Blindness of the Woods, which is a sort of fairy tale/Swedish porn movie (it was actually made in Argentina iirc) about a blind woman living alone in the woods who is seduced then abandoned by a lumberjack but later finds happiness with a bear (who she thinks is still the lumberjack.)

Everyone and everything in this movie is either a knitted puppet or an actor in a full-body knitted costume.

Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
1 year ago

OT: Not good.

Supreme court ruling on gerrymandering ‘imperils system of government’, says Kagan – live

Court withdraws from partisan gerrymandering cases, allowing voting maps to continue, as ruling on 2020 census citizenship question expected

OTOH:

The Supreme Court has issued a second major ruling, on the question of whether the Trump administration can include a question about US citizenship on the 2020 Census.

It appears that the court has agreed with a lower court which ruled that the commerce department could have reasonable grounds for including the question but was skeptical of the Trump administrations claim that it was just looking for better data to enforce the Voting Rights Act.

Looks like a defeat for team Trump. But stay tuned…

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2019/jun/27/trump-supreme-court-news-census-gerrymandering-today-democrats-2020-debates-latest-live-updates

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
1 year ago

@Amtep:
I’d almost forgotten that scene in Team America: World Police.

I enjoyed that movie, thought it did a wonderful balancing act between parody and homage. But it’s also just the epitome of Parker and Stone’s ‘everybody (else) on both Left and Right is stupid’ attitude.

In the ‘there’s an xkcd for everything’ category: I think this best describes my feelings on those two.
http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/atheists.png

mcbender
1 year ago

Wow, it’s been a while since I’ve commented here. What a thread to delurk on.

@brian I am going to have to check out that podcast at some point (wow, there’s a lot of it). I started a similar reread project with my partner (in writing, at our blog) but we only got through a book and a half before running out of energy to continue. I need to get back to that soon.

On the subject of J.K. Rowling and transphobia, it’s unfortunately been pretty obvious for a while. I’m reluctant to label her a TERF solely because I don’t think she qualifies as any sort of feminist and her work is fairly full of sexism and misogyny, but that’s more of a gripe with the term TERF than anything else (I recognise the history of TERFism having grown out of certain strains of radfem thought, but it’s basically all gender essentialism now). I like the term FART (feminism-appropriating reactionary transphobe) that I’ve seen used around here.

Every time the conversation about her transphobia starts up again, I start noticing upticks in traffic to this post my partner wrote, in which she quotes a disgustingly transphobic scene from one of Rowling’s (“Galbraith’s”) Cormoran Strike novels.

https://pointstick.wordpress.com/2016/02/18/the-silkworm-part-eleven-i-quit/

[Trigger warnings for transphobia, violence, incarceration; worse at the link] Short version, the detective protagonist beats up a trans woman (admittedly it starts out as self-defence) and threatens her with prison rape while musing on whether she is “pre-op”.

While I have not read that book myself, I don’t get the impression that scene is written as though we’re meant to have any sympathy whatsoever for her, but rather that we’re meant to find the detective’s reaction reasonable and possibly “badass”. It’s disgusting and I think this deserves greater exposure.

Rowling is a regressive hack, but that’s a lot easier to see in her non-Potter writing (it’s obvious in Potter too in retrospect, but I understand how people missed it at the time). I think a lot of people are just too attached to their nostalgia and/or fandom goggles to see it, and remembering a better version of her work that they actually had a fair hand in creating themselves.

Miri
Miri
1 year ago

I was just reading “The Martian” by Andy Weir. At one point in the book, Mark Watney, the titular character and a straight guy, talks about having sex with women. Nowhere does he mention vaginal mucus though 🤔.

Maybe it’s something #notallstraightmen talk about?

Katamount
1 year ago

Just on the topic of the debates, I got into it with some of the regulars at Wonkette about their obvious loathing for Bernie Sanders. I get that this is a touchy subject and if it’s something best left elsewhere, just let me know (I certainly don’t want to relitigate 2016), but… there’s something that really bothers me about the “liberal” discourse surrounding Bernie. I’m not American, so I don’t have any skin in that particular game, but looking at it from a Canada where the promise of Justin Trudeau’s optimistic social justice was quickly revealed to be pretty shallow, these people that claim to be so hyperfocused on issues of social justice are blowing off the one candidate that seeks to redress underlying systems out of grievances stemming from the 2016 election. And aside from maybe Marianne Williamson, he’s the only one to declare that intent.

Most critiques of “identity politics” are made in bad faith, but I’m starting to see some of the cracks forming in my interactions on Wonkette. The repeated mantra I see in opposition to Bernie is that “He’s an old white man! Time for a woman! Time for a person of colour!” To which I would agree… if the other candidates shared a democratic socialist epistomalogical standpoint. But they don’t. Liz Warren thinks capitalism is okay, it just needs better referees. Kamala Harris doesn’t even go that far (and her actions as a DA leave a lot to be desired). The rest are worse than them.

If they would simply say “I think Bernie’s critique of capitalism is wrong” or “I like Bernie’s policies and narrative, I just don’t trust him after the convention in 2016”, I’d accept those answers. We all have our dealbreakers. I just find the “YAAAAS QWEEN KAMALA! Let’s get a woman of colour!” responses really obnoxious given what I know of Harris as a candidate. Because it smacks of Justin Trudeau’s feminism being limited to a gender-balanced cabinet. That works for a while… until things fall apart. Then what?

*sigh* I foresee a bright future for President Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Vice-President Stacy Abrams, and I can appreciate the African-American community being for Joe Biden because he’s perceived as the “safe” candidate and they’re focused on removing Trump. It just seems so superficial and short-sighted to me.

I don’t mean to open any can of worms with this, I just needed to sound off on it. I hope it made sense.

kupo
kupo
1 year ago

these people that claim to be so hyperfocused on issues of social justice are blowing off the one candidate that seeks to redress underlying systems out of grievances stemming from the 2016 election.

If you look closer at his policies he’s not all that progressive. And he ignores people of color and women. And you seriously need to stop doing this. Why do you keep doing this?

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

It’s not an issue that Bernie is old, white and male in of itself. The issue is that he really doesn’t know how to empathize and speak to people who are not white and male. And yeah, his supporters, or a subset of them, have really poisoned the well.

Elizabeth Warren has an equally progressive vision on economics and a more progressive vision when it comes to gender, race etc. She’s just selling that vision in a way that can appeal to everyone, rather than the angry revolutionary language that will scare voters off. That Bernie and his supporters are seizing on Warren’s campaign skill to sell a conspiracy theory that she’s some sort of corporatist mole is extremely troubling to me. I fear that once again, the Bernie or Bust crowd is going to do as much as Putin to help Trump get elected. Still, better Bernie than Biden for sure!

tl;dr do not buy into the attacks on Elizabeth Warren and trust that a lot of women and POC have good reason for side eying Sanders candidacy.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Kupo,

Yeah, what more needs to be said at this point? I mostly replied because that Elizabeth Warren conspiracy theory is a new thing the Berners are trying and I’m really not happy about it.

Hambeast
Hambeast
1 year ago

Lainy – The thing I think of when I think of the Muppets and rule 34 is Professor Honeydew chasing Beaker around the lab with lewd intent.

Katamount
1 year ago

Yeah, you guys are right. Sorry, I shouldn’t have brought it up. I didn’t want to cause any discord and I really shouldn’t sound off on everything in my brain on these threads.

*sigh* I hate being me sometimes.

ObSidJag
ObSidJag
1 year ago

I read “vaginal mucus” & instantly think of John Cleese in Monty Python’s “The Meaning of Life”– “Have I done vaginal juices? ” to a room full of bored teenagers (most of whom are played by other Pythonites).

Well, I don’t know, John. You’re a grown-ass man. Wouldn’t *you* know if you’d done them or not (just me being completely facetious).

Katamount
1 year ago

@ObSidJag

I didn’t know that was Magenta from Rocky Horror as his wife in that scene until I rewatched it recently. I find Meaning of Life a mixed bag, but it’s got some great bits in it.

kupo
kupo
1 year ago

@Katamount
What bothers me more is that you’re so fucking dismissive of women and POCs’ concerns when you stan for your bro, and you even hold other women and POCs up as a shield against criticism of your beliefs, as if the people you’re talking to on this blog are misguided and don’t know what’s best for us because there are other members of our demographics who do like his policies.

Katamount
1 year ago

@kupo

Then I shall endeavour to be more mindful of those concerns. I’m trying to do better all the time. Like I said, it’s just a feeling I had.

Just out of curiosity, are there any other topics I do this on? I didn’t think I had promoted Bernie around here in a while, so if there’s anything else I’m a nuisance on, let me know.

Hambeast
Hambeast
1 year ago

Actually, for me, it is a matter of being *done* with old white dudes. We’ve had 43 of them as presidents (b/c Kennedy is always described as young) and I think that’s enough for a while.

But to be serious for a minute, white male-identified people of a certain age seem (to me) to have a calcified way of viewing the world, no matter how “woke” they actually are. And? They often seem to think that they’re way more woke than they appear (or else they’re trying to sound more woke than they are. Lookin’ at you, Joe Biden.)

Hell, I turned 59 last week and I’m probably pretty calcified in my views, too! Even though I’d like to think I’m not, I try to be realistic. I’ll never be a conservative, anyway.

Weasel-Rah
Weasel-Rah
1 year ago

Bernie, for all his talk of being an outsider, has a long record in politics. If he’d wanted to center the concerns of women and minorities he’s had years to do so. His record on that score is pretty mediocre, and his defensiveness when called on it isn’t pretty. (I’ll never forget his butthurt declaring Planned Parenthood to be The Establishment when they endorsed Clinton over him.) Not every problem can be solved by breaking up the banks.

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
1 year ago

I know I’m fed up to HERE (that’s a long ways, too!) with Old White Dudes. Not so much that we’ve failed to perform on just about every occasion, though that’s a concern…. Additionally, I fear we have a “survival response” that seems almost hard-wired, to view the world in our terms, i.e. “how will this affect Old White Dudes, and specifically, how will this affect our social position/privilege.”

We’ve reached the point where if we don’t start viewing the world as a closed system, no one is going to survive. Old White Dudes who can’t see past the end of their entitlement aren’t cutting it.

Rabid Rabbit
Rabid Rabbit
1 year ago

The nice thing is that even some old white dudes get it. I’ve mentioned Neil Macdonald’s basic sensibleness before, haven’t I?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/democratic-debate-1.5190801

It is just as foolish right now to assume that someone too far to the left, or a woman, or a woman on the left, cannot pull off the same feat Trump managed.

That sort of thinking inevitably leads to only one place: Joe Biden. And sorry, fellow aging white men, but that amounts to offering up one rather conservative septuagenarian with surgically created hair to replace another.

I’ve seen former vice president, and now Democratic leadership candidate Joe Biden up close. He seemed a pleasant fellow. But I’m damned if I can remember anything he said, besides how much he loves everybody. He says that a lot, when he isn’t reassuring rich donors that he won’t really change the system.

I’ve also seen Senator Elizabeth Warren up close. It was in a union hall in Kentucky in 2014. … The only speaker I have ever seen hold a crowd like that was Lucien Bouchard, speaking to audiences of Quebecers in 1990 about the betrayal of the Meech Lake Accord.

Both politicians burned with intelligence, and radiated principle. Neither gave a toss for political triangulation. Both left their listeners convinced they meant what they said and would do it, and that to them, only the people mattered.

kupo
kupo
1 year ago

@Katamount
I can’t recall any other topics. If it’s come up, I probably would have said something, though.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

I watched a little MSNBC this morning and the pundits were out in full force whining about how left the candidates were going. For all the Bernie Bro talk of Elizabeth Warren being the establishment, the establishment sure seems awfully scared of her. Particularly the Medicare for all part.

It’s all their own fault though. If they had been willing to let the 99% have just a little piece of the pie, if they’d kept things like they were in the 50s and 60s economically speaking, we wouldn’t be here. People are apathetic enough to be just fine with centrism if their own lives are secure. But the rich got too damn greedy. Now centrism is not good enough for much of the Democratic base anymore. And the Republican base are, as we know rejecting the center right for fascism. If the 1% knows what’s good for them, they’ll allow the peasants a little money and security and in no time, we’ll be back to our usual stupor. But wealth tends to make people very shortsighted and unwilling to learn anything, so they’ll probably back Trump if we don’t nominate Biden.

sly fawkes
sly fawkes
1 year ago

I have a big problem with the use of the term “TERF.” Specifically, the fact that this term directs violence at women. There is no equivalent term for men who are deemed transphobic. Could not one simply use the term “transphobic” for anyone who was thought to be behaving in such a fashion?
I refuse to use this term. This page contains multiple examples of why it’s a problem.
https://terfisaslur.com/
A woman can be branded a “TERF” for any reason from feeling that using puberty blockers on children may be damaging to their future physical health to actually hating transgender people. Keep in mind, it is not men who are being called TERFs. It is not men that statements such as “punch a TERF” are being directed against.

Catalpa
Catalpa
1 year ago

I don’t believe that TERF is necessarily only applicable to women. (Although, granted, given that some TERFs seem to think that all AMAB people are predators, the ranks are likely mostly cis women.)

TERF refers to a particular brand of transphobe that cloaks their rhetoric in ostensibly “progressive” vocabulary. A man who started making the same kinds of points could also be considered a TERF. The term is used to describe specific behavior, behavior that works to infiltrate progressive spaces, and as such the term is a useful tool in bringing awareness to the fact that a person who may share some political ground with you can also be a person who makes this space unsafe for marginalized groups. It is important that progressive spaces be inclusive, and awareness of the type of bigotry trying to get past our radars is important.

Transphobic behavior that comes bundled with conservativism and all of the other assorted bigotries that are associated with that viewpoint is no less awful than TERF-specific transphobia. But it is generally something that is far more easy to see and condemn for the pile of shit that it is, at least in progressive circles.

Mike
Mike
1 year ago

Thanks Mels.

Shadowplay
1 year ago

@sly fawkes

Could not one simply use the term “transphobic” for anyone who was thought to be behaving in such a fashion?
I refuse to use this term.

And it is your right to refuse to use the term, and no one should be insisting you do.

Doesn’t mean it’s not a useful and needed term to describe a specific type of transphobe (and carries quite strong associations as to how they operate), and Catalpa hit the nail fairly to explain why.

Tired of the trans kid health debate
Tired of the trans kid health debate
1 year ago

Funny, because TERF wasn’t created by us trans people, it was an etiquette that radical feminists invented for themselves. No, the TERFs view of gender and their transphobia is different in rethoric and consequences, so having that category is helpful, just as separating different motives for bigotry are important. TERFs have activelly tried to supress trans people’s rights since decades ago. They demean and hurt us using radical feminist rethoric of oppression as justification, because we are opressing women, the one and final oppressed class, according to them (especially trans women get targeted, but I’ve also seen trans men hunted for sport and harrassed online by them). That’s certainly not what your everyday transphobe does. and it is not a gendered term, as male TERFs also exist out there, though rarer. My biggest problem with the term is that it’s used too broadly nowadays to describe a lot of people that it isn’t even applicable to, and I don’t think we should be harsher to TERFs than other transphobes. But getting that critique from someone that seems completely ignorant of the history and origin of the term and what it actually means is unhelpful. It ignores the actual harm TERFs have done to us, and how they’ve poisoned feminist movements against us, even though we’ve been part of those movements, and how much investment we ourselves have in ending gendered oppression.

I am completely ready to call the ”concern” towards the health of young trans people taking hormone blockers transphobia, due to the overall climate of devaluing trans people and our bodies as inherently inferior.
I was one of those ”children” (they don’t give hormone blockers to children that hasn’t started to enter puberty, e.g mostly teenagers like I was) and let me tell you, I’ve never appreciated total outsiders that don’t get how trans-related health care is practiced and how it helps us are suddenly so, so, ”concerned” for the health of trans kids (I transitioned over a decade ago so I’m not among them anymore. Still trans. Still happy with the choices I got to make with my body as a teenager with the help of understanding doctors in the face of my parents reluctant ”acceptance”. Also in very good physical condition), They seem to always ignore how mentally damaging it might be for a trans kid to go through irreversible pubertal changes caused by their own body if left alone. People think letting the body do things ”naturally” is always superior, even though in some cases the body’s own reaction would kill you if left unchecked, such as an allergic shock. In trans kids’ case, you adventure their health by not giving them blockers as well, and it will force them to take more surgeries and treatments to reverse them later that might have been prevented. Funny how that’s never seen as harmful to us. I don’t trust those kind of concerend people having the best interest of trans kids at all. I am ready to call them transphobes (and even TERF if that is applicable) I also think they’re ableist, since they consider my non-normative body that has to rely on hormone injections every three months but which makes me able to live as myself, as having less worth over a ”natural” body that made me absolutely miserable. What young trans people and trans people at all ages need is people telling us our bodies are beautiful, at the point when we ourselves are comfortable in them. Want less kids and teenagers to risk
physically transitioning? First make sure everyone respects our identities all the time everywhere no matter how we look, and nobody will seek treatment out of pure desperation only. We will still transition though, even as teenagers, because the problem we have with our bodies might also come mostly from within. Also, tell trans people that has transitioned that we’re not freaks, that out bodies are beautiful because we feel confident in them. And maybe we will have more happier and healthy people. Anyone that values ”natural” bodies over the mind inside us doesn’t really care about us as people. Thanks but no thanks for that kind of concern. The one with the right to be concerned are the health care providers and health-care researchers and the patients. Because they are the ones that knows what’s at stage whether you take them or not. I don’t like when people act like they’re concerned for our health, when they don’t even know the health damage not taking hormone blockers can do to us. And no, I’m not saying we shouldn’t carefully consider the effects hormone blockers can have on a growing person, I think that must be closely studied for our own sakes and for young trans people so we can all make informed decisions about potential risks. It’s just that all those bloody concern troll that tears their hair out for the kids that potentially face health complications due to blockers, usually don’t give a fuck about how going through the wrong puberty also causes tremendous health problems, and the suffering of trans people that went through irreversible unwanted body changes by getting no treatment. They can leave it to the ones that knows what they’re talking about, and that actually genuinely care about us as trans people.
They’re not helping us or our health, not even those of us that might suffer harmful health consequences due to trans-related care. This is very personal to me.

I didn’t think I would delurk for this, after reading here for years. I just get so frustrated with the latest fad of ”concern” for kids that was like me. It was all over the media and in all public newspapers a while ago, and it reached even my own country as media here copycat brittish and american media. It was potentially harmful, as people with no idea about trans care still felt the right to fear-monger about transitioning kids, that are vulnerable enough as is.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

SlyFawkes,

The complaint that TERF is a slur is exactly what transphobes say. Their claim that it’s violent towards women is what they use to silence trans women who object to being abused by them. The claim that the term is used unfairly is also a shield meant to cast transphobes as victims when trans people defend themselves against hate. The puberty blocker thing is pure scaremongering. There’s no epidemic of parents forcing their children to medically transition. This is no different than saying “I’m not racist, I’m just ‘concerned’ that European culture will be lost if there’s too many immigrants” Hate is frequently disguised as mere concern.

I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt that you just didn’t realize all this. Provided you don’t double down. Although realize that it is easy to do this because I am cis. Trans Mammotheers may be less inclined to, and that is their right.

If you are interested in learning, I highly recommend Contrapoints YouTube channel. She’s very good at treating the arguments of TERFs (and other miscreants) fairly and rationally before going on to destroy those arguments with surgical precision.

kupo
kupo
1 year ago

I see Sly Fawkes aka The Real Cie has outed herself as a transphobe again.

Yutolia the Green Hash Pronoun Boner
Yutolia the Green Hash Pronoun Boner
1 year ago

I’ve heard people refer to men (Wil Wheaton, for example) as TERFs, so I don’t actually think it’s a gendered thing. The term means (as many other have pointed out) Trans Exclusionary Reactionary Feminist. Now, some people automatically assume that feminist means it’s only for women, but since men can be feminists, that’s definitely not true.

Fabe
Fabe
1 year ago

@Yutolia

I really hope That Wil Wheaton isn’t a TERF and it’s just a baseless accusation from the haters .

kupo
kupo
1 year ago

Rhuu is getting errors when trying to post and has asked me to post this:

Fuck is The Real Cie here defending TERFs again??

TERF is a word that they chose, it literally describes them. “Trans exclusionary radical feminist”.

I’m reminded of a conversation I had with a sibling. It went like this:

“I’m not watching Ender’s Game, Orson Scott Card is homophobic.”

Them: “Is he, though?? Or does he just not believe in gay marriage?”

Me: *absolutely speechless*

That’s you. You’re trying to carve up transphobia into little acceptable chunks.

“I’m not a transphobe, I just don’t think parents should force their children through unproven medical treatments.”

“I’m not a transphobe, I just think that TERF is mean to women.”

“I’m not a transphobe or a TERF, I’m ‘gender critical’.”

Fuck that noise. TERF works because it makes them mad. I’m not switching words. And I give the EXTREME SIDE EYE to anyone who blathers on about how it’s a slur. (Because only TERFs and transphobes do that. Is why.)

This also reminds me about how the TERFs are trying to convince peole that the word ‘queer’ is also a slur. Or how they’re trying to convince people that Ace people don’t belong in the LGBTQIA+ acronym.

The ‘queer’ thing is because it is not tied with gender identity. I like ‘queer’ because then I don’t have to declare my gender. I’m just queer. And that TERRIFIES TERFs!

The Ace thing is because if they can split off the asexual community from the larger queer community, then they can use that to springboard to also cut off the trans community.

Hm. Sorry. TL;DR – You suck.

@Fabe
Wil Wheaton used Randi Harper’s gamergate block bot, and then Randi turned it into her own TERFy block bot, which caused anyone using it to block a bunch of trans folx. He then got really defensive about any inquiries about it. The whole thing was super messy, but I don’t recall anything Wil ever said or did that was TERFy. I could have missed something, though.

Yutolia the Green Hash Pronoun Boner
Yutolia the Green Hash Pronoun Boner
1 year ago

Oops, I said it was “Trans Exlusionary Reactionary Feminist”, it should be “Radical” instead of reactionary.

Yutolia the Green Hash Pronoun Boner
Yutolia the Green Hash Pronoun Boner
1 year ago

@Fabe: I used that as an example because it’s the first one that came to mind. He didn’t necessarily say something explicitly terf-y, but he is associated with a lot of them unfortunately. I keep hoping that it’s wrong and he’s just going about things the wrong way, but I can’t quite tell.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

I didn’t realize she was a sock of someone who’s already been revealed as a TERF. Benefit of the rescinded.

Specialffrog
Specialffrog
1 year ago

Everyone can agree that Graham Linehan is a man and a TERF.

Jesalin: Clit-o-centric Lesbian Goddess
Jesalin: Clit-o-centric Lesbian Goddess
1 year ago

Seconds Rhuu comment

TERF is not a gods damned slur for fuck sake. Also TERFs can fuck right off.

Dalillama
Dalillama
1 year ago

@Sly TERF
Your choice of link gives you away. Fuck all the way off.

mcbender
1 year ago

I feel the need to second “TERF is not a slur”. It’s important to point out that “TERF is a slur” is a disingenuous silencing tactic that TERFs use because they don’t like being accurately identified and criticised. It is an accurate description of their position, and having that pointed out makes it harder for them to poison the well against counterarguments.

If someone tells you “TERF is a slur”, they’re probably a TERF.

That said, I do sometimes think many people (including myself) fall into a habit of using “TERF” as a shorthand for “transphobe”, when it should properly mean a specific subset of transphobia and trans-antagonistic rhetoric. That’s something I’m working on.

kupo
kupo
1 year ago

I brought receipts, if anyone needs:

Initial TERFy statement (in the same thread where Lady Mondegreen was banned for same): https://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2018/07/21/mgtows-dream-of-raping-beating-sexbots-that-say-no/comment-page-1/#comment-2151114

If you want proof they’re the same person (aside from the avatar): https://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2018/09/21/malebag-women-s-k-d-k-because-d-k-built-and-maintained-all-upon-the-earth/comment-page-2/#comment-2230038

(That one has a bonus link to their TERF tumblr)

Catalpa
Catalpa
1 year ago

Oof, that Tumblr is real illuminating. Yuck. I clearly gave Sly Fawkes way too much benefit of the doubt in my previous post.

Just in case my last post wasn’t clear enough, TERF is not a slur. It’s an accurate term to describe transphobes who behave in a particular fashion.

And apparently an accurate term to describe Sly Fawkes, too. I wouldn’t be opposed to a ban, if David deems it justified. The arguments she’s been making are just barely toeing the line of plausible deniability, but the context around them and the links that have been provided are very clearly transphobic.

Troubelle: Moonbeam Malcontent, Bard of the New Movement
Troubelle: Moonbeam Malcontent, Bard of the New Movement
1 year ago

Someone tryin’ to sneak around
Thinkin’ herself so wry
Solely subvertin’, some people to be hurtin’
But turns out she ain’t so sly

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
1 year ago

@Rabid Rabbit, quoting Neil MacDonald:

I’ve also seen Senator Elizabeth Warren up close. It was in a union hall in Kentucky in 2014. … The only speaker I have ever seen hold a crowd like that was Lucien Bouchard, speaking to audiences of Quebecers in 1990 about the betrayal of the Meech Lake Accord.

That’s pretty high praise for Warren.

Bouchard has his issues (I’ve commented before that it seemed like he never met a political movement he didn’t think could be made better if he were in charge) but he is smart, focused, and willing to take the long view. When he moved from federal to provincial politics to take over the Parti Québécois, he realized that winning a referendum on separation would only happen if people felt that Quebec could stand on its own, so he spent most of his efforts on building the economy. In the end he mostly failed because the old-timers who supplied a lot of the party money and support insisted on a referendum before Bouchard felt they would be ready, so he walked out rather than be forced to do something he felt would fail.

I disagree with much of what Bouchard argued for, but he was still damn good at what he did and a cut above your average politician. And he was certainly more principled than Mulroney, though that would probably be considered damning with faint praise.

Yutolia the Green Hash Pronoun Boner
Yutolia the Green Hash Pronoun Boner
1 year ago

@Specialffrog:

Thank you, I clearly needed a better example. My brain has apparently gone on strike this week.

Yutolia the Green Hash Pronoun Boner
Yutolia the Green Hash Pronoun Boner
1 year ago

@(not really all that) Sly TERF:

Y’all remind me a bit of the incel movement with this whole “TERF is a slur” garbage. This was a term y’all adopted for yourselves, and then only started objecting to it when others started using it to describe your truly horrible, regressive ideas and label them as what they are.

Rabid Rabbit
Rabid Rabbit
1 year ago

@Jenora Feuer

more principled than Mulroney

And Antarctica is colder than Arizona.

Terrifying fact: At least on apartheid and acid rain, even Mulroney turned out to have some principles.

It is annoying when the separatists get the best politicians, though. Remember whichever election it was when there was suddenly a groundswell of people on the left going “Why does Gilles Duceppe have to be a separatist? I’d love to be able to vote for him!” (This was, of course, before he tarnished his image forever with his idiotic attempt at a comeback.)

Some friends of mine actually told him that to his face. Apparently he smiled awkwardly.

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
1 year ago

@Rabid Rabbit:
I did say that was damning with faint praise. Considering the two had been friends for years, and Bouchard basically came second in the party leadership convention that Mulroney won, it’s hard not to compare the two. And wonder how much Canadian politics would have been different if the firebrand had won out over the used car salesman. We probably wouldn’t have had the three-way fracturing of the party that happened afterward, anyway. (Well, considering Bouchard led one of the fractures, definitely not.)

The most principled Conservative leader in my lifetime would probably be Joe Clark. Which, again, is still kind of damning with faint praise. Hard to say where Kim Campbell would rank, we got to see so little of her because Mulroney kept trying to run things even after he’d officially retired.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Welcome, Tired of the Trans Kid Health Debate. Please feel free to stay delurked if you like!

Valentin
Valentin
1 year ago

men get called TERF too haha. what was that bullshit

Rabid Rabbit
Rabid Rabbit
1 year ago

@Jenore Feuer

Well, Campbell wasn’t going to last long anyway. No one who took over the PCs after Mulroney was going to. Though she didn’t help her case much.

And yeah, Joe Clark gets the principled card. He also, unfortunately, gets the boneheaded-and-bad-at-counting card.