By David Futrelle
Generally speaking, it’s a waste of time for sensible people to argue with TERFs — that is, Trans-Excluding Radical Feminists. But on rare occasions it can be, well, highly illuminating. And weirdly entertaining.
Take, for example, the strange debate that broke out in J.K. Rowling’s mentions last night (FWIW, Rowling herself had nothing to do with it). After a long pitched battle over such fascinating topics as whether or not TERF is a slur (it’s not, BTW), one TERF demanded to know why a trans lesbian was interested in dating … other lesbians.
@TheaGardO replied that it wasn’t about the genitals: “No one can change sex … males never get a ‘fully female body.'”
Emma responded with a question, and a NEW HERO responded with an unexpected answer:
Er, what?
Someone called Malachite Tiger tried to tease out the implications with a sarcastic comment, and then things got EPIC.
Um …..
“Vaginal mucus is certainly a key element [of] what straight men are attracted to in female bodies.” That’s a slogan I’ve never seen on a t-shirt, that’s for sure.
I can’t speak for lesbians, but as a straight man, I have to say that the term “vaginal mucus” has never once popped into my head during a sexual fantasy. I’ve never heard a guy brag about his girlfriend’s awesome vaginal mucus, or suggest to me that I “check out the mucus” on some hot gal walking by.
Yes, straight guys tend to get psyched when a cis woman they’re with gets really wet down in that, er, humid region, though to be honest this is generally because they like to give themselves credit for this happy development. Some guys are obsessed with going down on cis women, and the taste is part of that whole experience; but other guys — as cis women understandably complain — aren’t.
Meanwhile, you have probably heard about the obsession many straight dudes have with putting their dicks in women’s butts, where, by definition, there is no vaginal mucus and the necessary lubrication comes in little bottles or tubes you can literally buy at any drug store. And guess what, either option down there feels pretty good for the guy.
Seriously, as long as a cis guy has some place to put his dick, or maybe a couple of options (not all of them necessarily located on the bottom half of the body), he’s generally pretty pleased. And there is obviously a lot more to sex than putting dicks in, well, whatever hole or crevice feels good to put them in. Sex is about more than genitals. And while your preferences are your preferences, and that’s fine, the people who are the most open about what counts as sex tend to have (and to be) the most fun.
The talk about vaginal mucus seems weird because it is weird. Love is about people, not about sexual organs and their particular secretions. Straight men (and lesbians, and bi or poly people of whatever gender) can and do enjoy sex with women who have surgically constructed vaginas, or no vaginas at all. Women (and gay men, and bi/pan folks) can enjoy sex with guys whose dicks aren’t even close to porn-star sized — and with guys who are impotent or literally have no dicks. Anyone confused by any of this can easily find numerous videos illustrating all these scenarios online, and many, many more.
TERFs are obsessed with “natiral” sex, but they talk about it as if they (and we) were Martians.
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re: puppet porn…
I watched Debbie Does Dallas… I cannot judge….
@ Kupo:
It ISSSSSS!! EVERYTHING IS A CONSPIRACY! I HEARD IT ON THE INTERNET FROM A VERY CREDIBLE-LOOKING DUDE WHO TOOK OFF HIS SHIRT AND STARTED SHOUTING ABOUT “THE LIBERALS” AND “DEEP STATE”
@Shadowplay
because i’m picturing the muppets. Like ms.Piggy and Kermit doing it in the shower or something. Kermit with the cheesy porn mustache comin in.
@Lainy:
There is a somewhat infamous movie out there called Meet the Feebles, which is pretty much ‘The Muppets’ meets ‘Sex, Drugs, and Rock and Roll’. Don’t watch on a full stomach.
It was also one of the earlier productions by Peter Jackson, the same man who would later do The Lord of the Rings movies.
Last year there was The HappyTime Murders, a Melissa McCarthy comedy which was pretty much a human/puppet buddy cop movie. That was even produced by Brian Henson, Jim Henson’s son.
Basically, not only do such things exist, they’ve even been done with fairly big budgets.
Not to mention if muppet porn wasn’t a thing, Deviant Art could shut down a dozen servers. 😛
The HappyTime Murders is a rather fun movie. I mean, it’s not Who Framed Roger Rabbit levels of great, but it is close.
Quivering quim. Viscous vaginal mucus.
And all I can think is “Yes, we know what deep-seated fears helped Lovecraft come up with Cthulhu. We really didn’t need to have it spelled out for us, thanks.”
@Lukas Xavier
By George, I think I’ve got it!
Misogyny + Sexuality = Misogysexual
Definition: a heterosexual, cis gender man who is sexually attracted to women, but at the same time, hates them.
@ Monday Middlemarch:
That describes, I fear, about half the cis, het Male population
I’m not comfortable with this idea that wanting to hate-fuck women is some kind of orientation. The misogyny that infects these dudes’ sexual desires is the same misogyny that infects non-sexual aspects of life and society.
There’s also a highly pornographic puppet sex scene in “Team America: World Police”. Apparently they’d been making bets about what they could get past the ratings board.
@Mels
Thank you. This is like saying PUA is a sexual orientation and just no.
But she follows (and retweets) a LOT of TERFs, a lot a lot. How much more benefit of the doubt are you planning to give her? You can like an author’s work and still admit they’re a piece of shit.
JK Rowling is a TERF. Fuck her.
@Mels
I hear you but it is something I find particularly curious with misogynist men who still seemed obsessed with having sex and relationships with women.
The few times I have heard of women genuinely hating men – they want nothing to do with them.
Does she also retweet TERF statements (as in TERFy comments instead of comments from TERFs)?
Genuine question as I refuse to use Twitter?
@Steph
This article might help to clarify.
https://www.themarysue.com/jk-rowling-transphobic-follows/
Ok, so from my research on surgeons, a lot of them are leaving the Cowper’s glands intact, which does provide some level of lubrication. How much varies from person to person, like fucking everything, but TERFs are behind on their knowledge once again.
Also, surgery isn’t what gives trans women “fully female bodies”
As far as Rowling goes, she hasn’t just liked TERFs on Twitter. Her detective novel The Silkworm has a transphobic passage where a woman is threatened with a men’s prison, and a nasty implication since she’s “pre-op”.
@kupo
Thank you!
JK Rowling is going in the same box that I keep H.P. Lovecraft in. The “yeah, you made some stories and worlds that I enjoy, but fuck you, you awful person” box.
@Catalpa
I can hardly wait for her to make a statement about her reasons for following people known for their transphobia.
@Moggie
Ok this might be a dumb question but I have very limited experience with vaginas but is the secretions actually a mucus? That sounds much thicker than what I imagine.
@Mike – vaginal secretions are mostly mucus, and it can get quite thick. But as with everything, individuals vary. Some women have viscous discharge, some have only watery discharge, and some have none at all.
Off topic but Reddit have finally quarantined The Donald. The meltdon is a joy to watch, charted on Top Minds of Reddit and elsewhere
for those who enjoyed Rowling’s works in the past but maybe haven’t revisited them, I recommend checking out the podcast The Shrieking Shack, which describes itself as “a Harry Potter re-read podcast for lapsed fans.” they go through the books chapter by chapter, recapping and discussing/criticizing them, and also discuss Harry Potter news and other related things. so Rowling’s shitty political views have come up A LOT.
LOL, I didn’t mean the topic to get off on puppet porno, but I’m a big Cinema Snob fan and it was one of his earlier episodes. I haven’t actually watched the full film (probably for the best), but it was directed by Deep Throat director Gerard Damiano, and it basically had the same plot as Deep Throat.
And Meet the Feebles is legendary Peter Jackson in his early career. The sodomy song at the very end is just sublimely bizarre and surprisingly well sung.
From director of Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit Sir Peter Jackson, ladies, enbies and gents!
(I’ll put an NSFW warning on it for the props, but there’s nothing explicit in the video itself.)
Vaginal mucous also varies in consistancy and quantity throughout a hormonal cycle. Super slippery clear stuff is around in the fertile window. You can take an expectorant to increase the quantity if you are trying to conceive, and want more of the easiest medium for swimmers to navigate. Healthy normal mucous varies from sticky white to slippery clear. Things you learn when trying to conceive… (many years ago, now!)