By David Futrelle
Generally speaking, it’s a waste of time for sensible people to argue with TERFs — that is, Trans-Excluding Radical Feminists. But on rare occasions it can be, well, highly illuminating. And weirdly entertaining.
Take, for example, the strange debate that broke out in J.K. Rowling’s mentions last night (FWIW, Rowling herself had nothing to do with it). After a long pitched battle over such fascinating topics as whether or not TERF is a slur (it’s not, BTW), one TERF demanded to know why a trans lesbian was interested in dating … other lesbians.
@TheaGardO replied that it wasn’t about the genitals: “No one can change sex … males never get a ‘fully female body.'”
Emma responded with a question, and a NEW HERO responded with an unexpected answer:
Er, what?
Someone called Malachite Tiger tried to tease out the implications with a sarcastic comment, and then things got EPIC.
Um …..
“Vaginal mucus is certainly a key element [of] what straight men are attracted to in female bodies.” That’s a slogan I’ve never seen on a t-shirt, that’s for sure.
I can’t speak for lesbians, but as a straight man, I have to say that the term “vaginal mucus” has never once popped into my head during a sexual fantasy. I’ve never heard a guy brag about his girlfriend’s awesome vaginal mucus, or suggest to me that I “check out the mucus” on some hot gal walking by.
Yes, straight guys tend to get psyched when a cis woman they’re with gets really wet down in that, er, humid region, though to be honest this is generally because they like to give themselves credit for this happy development. Some guys are obsessed with going down on cis women, and the taste is part of that whole experience; but other guys — as cis women understandably complain — aren’t.
Meanwhile, you have probably heard about the obsession many straight dudes have with putting their dicks in women’s butts, where, by definition, there is no vaginal mucus and the necessary lubrication comes in little bottles or tubes you can literally buy at any drug store. And guess what, either option down there feels pretty good for the guy.
Seriously, as long as a cis guy has some place to put his dick, or maybe a couple of options (not all of them necessarily located on the bottom half of the body), he’s generally pretty pleased. And there is obviously a lot more to sex than putting dicks in, well, whatever hole or crevice feels good to put them in. Sex is about more than genitals. And while your preferences are your preferences, and that’s fine, the people who are the most open about what counts as sex tend to have (and to be) the most fun.
The talk about vaginal mucus seems weird because it is weird. Love is about people, not about sexual organs and their particular secretions. Straight men (and lesbians, and bi or poly people of whatever gender) can and do enjoy sex with women who have surgically constructed vaginas, or no vaginas at all. Women (and gay men, and bi/pan folks) can enjoy sex with guys whose dicks aren’t even close to porn-star sized — and with guys who are impotent or literally have no dicks. Anyone confused by any of this can easily find numerous videos illustrating all these scenarios online, and many, many more.
TERFs are obsessed with “natiral” sex, but they talk about it as if they (and we) were Martians.
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Oh good, a chance to share my new favorite screenshot:
Note that not all cis women have vaginal mucus either. I personally know one that doesn’t, and she met another one online. People are different.
As for why they were in Rowling’s mentions…
*sigh*
The last three people she followed are TERFs. She’s been problematic for a while now, but this is the last straw as far as I’m concerned.
Sounds like the same type of guys that shame a woman if she ask to use personal lubricant in bed. I personally need to use a lot and some guys get actually offended if you can’t get “wet” enough on your own.
pretty sure there’s surgeries now that add saliva glands for “vaginal mucus” but idk a lot about bottom surgeries for trans femme peeps
@Jack
Some people in the thread were saying something to that effect, yes. But just like cis women, not all trans women produce a lot of lubrication.
It’s almost as if any distinction one tries to make between cis and trans women to justify their aversion is completely arbitrary and doesn’t actually evenly split with cis on one side and trans on the other.
I am dreading this making an appearance in an upcoming “Sinfest” strip.
I’m a lesbian attracted to women of all types, transwomen included. I do not care about vaginal mucus.
You know, if people just stopped trying to police other people’s bodies, identities and sexualities, they wouldn’t have to spend so much time and energy engaging in the rhetorical gymnastics it takes to rationalizing that policing.
It’s so much easier to just not be an asshole.
@Robert
Yeah, I dropped Sinfest like a hot potato. Should have done it years ago… :-/
@Robert, imagine what Father Ted would be like if it were made now!
Sinfest hurts mostly because he’s actually a decent artist but it’s in service of an evolving parade of gross takes.
What is it? Don’t you remember your high school days when you all sat together and talked about which girl had the most viscous secretions? Well, I can remember when my dear friend Christopher told me about his love and how…
Sorry, I can’t keep a straight face! This is what happens when you run out of arguments and just go with the last thing you read. “What can I put there… erm… OH! YES! Vaginal fluids! AND DOUBLE DOWN!
But that’s TERFs for you. Not just jerks, but desperate jerks.
It seems like they’re really underestimating humankind’s ability to figure out new ways to have sex. If two (or more) humans really want to get busy, they will find a way to make it happen.
Also, I think Mr Quackenbush has just told us more about his fetishes than he wanted to. (Is it just me, or do straight guys do this a lot – assume that their more niche interests are universal?)
*clicks pen*
Note to self… “vaginal mucus” is an acceptable synonym for “pussy juice” in dirty stories from now on… Twitter has spoken.
*clicks pen*
And I thought “quivering quim” was bad….
I feel attacked lol.
I get the feeling that we need an additional distinction in sexual preference. We need some way to distinguish between men who like women in a sexual way and men who hate women in a sexual way.
Ordinarily, these would both be called straight, but they’re obviously different things. Maybe it would be helpful to advance the vocabulary on this point.
EDIT:
Not sure if I expressed myself clearly. I don’t think it’s enough to say that they’re “straight guys who also hate women”. It seems the hating is integral, not just an addition.
Let me know what you think.
OT: there’s a phantom Weird Eddie comment on this site. It shows up in “recent comments” with a timestamp of just over an hour ago. Clicking on it brings up an article here but it doesn’t auto-scroll down to the bottom, and manually scrolling down reveals that the most recent comment to it is an older one by someone else.
What is going on? If this comment does not exist why are non-functioning links to it littering this site, and if it does exist why am I being forcibly prevented from viewing it? I was given to understand that comments here don’t get Facebook-like restrictions on who can see them, and are all supposed to be fully public, but that does not seem to be the case if there are comments I can discover links to but not view, does it?
@ Surplus:
I made one just now that’s “on the timer”, and I made one on the previous thread a few minnits ago… I dunno!?!?!?
@wwth:
THANK YOUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!!
@ Katamount:
from my younger daze… my brother and I throwing out grimmer and grimmer metaphors for use in porno books…
“quivering quim” IMMEDIATELY became a pseudo-super-heroe name…
I am QUIVERING QUIM!!!! I shall SLAY you, TURGID MAN-MEAT!!!
(it went south from there…)
@ Surplus:
ahh, that’s weird (pun intended)… my comment appeared in the “recent comments” list before it got through the “5-minnit” time period for editing, then I edited it…. You must have clicked on the “recent comments link while I was in the Edit window
😉
@Weird Eddie:
“Quivering Quim” sounds like a name for the 1950s’ worst gelatin salad recipe.
For those interested, I got “Quivering Quim” from a review I saw for the 1970s puppet porno called “Let My Puppets Cum”.
Yes, it’s real.
You have asked this question before and gotten answers before. At some point you’re just going to have to accept that sometimes the comments in the sidebar and the comments on the page are out of sync and it’s not a conspiracy.
@Katamount
not to kink shame you or anything but why would you watch that?
Someone thought it were a good idea to make a porno with puppets and you have to ask?
The question is “Why would you NOT watch that?” 😛