By David Futrelle
Today, a brief visit to the Men Going Their Own Way subreddit, where men who claim they’ve given up women — and don’t even think about them any more — spend all day every day talking about women. This time, they’re talking about female orgasm, which according to them doesn’t exist.
Annoyed by a post in the badly named women-centric TwoXChromosomes subreddit in which a young woman wondered if she might possibly have just had her first orgasm while taking a highly stressful physics test, a MGTOW Redditor called TVTestPattern declares flatly that the female orgasm is a “myth.”
Oh, dude. Dude.
I feel a little bad for him. And a lot bad for any woman who may have suffered the misfortune of having sex with him.
Also, dude, the fake orgasm scene from When Harry Met Sally — which is what his final line links to — isn’t actually proof of anything, except perhaps that screenwriter Nora Ephron might just have endured some really shitty boyfriends and husbands in her day (we already knew she had one extra-shitty ex-husband, Carl Bernstein). But I digress.
The commenters in the MGTOW subreddit thought that Mr. TestPattern here was really onto something with his totally original female orgasm theory.
“I have always said this,” wrote YouLoseAgainDipshits.
As men, we know that orgasms don’t feel thatgood. When’s the last time you screamed and moaned while masturbating?
While women are drama queens, it’s clear they don’t even know what an orgasm is.
A guy called Avyctes managed to have an opinion that was somehow even worse than this.
“A female orgasm is irrelevant,” he wrote.
As long as the Man gets off. She’s nothing more, and a whole lot less, than a walking masturbation sleeve.
So weird that there are so many guys out there not only willing to admit that they’re terrible people, but also to make it absolutely clear that they are utter shit in bed. The internet is an amazing thing.
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It’s clear to me that this comment and the other two aren’t real. No human being would make claims that are this stupid.
You know how cats like to lie on keyboards, pressing on keys and messing up a Word doc with something along the lines of — and here I quote my own cat — HEELPIMBEEING HELDCAP TIVE SND KIBBL THE GUDKINDD?
Obviously, that’s what happened here. It’s a bunch of nonsense that’s almost like English but makes no sense.
This is basically what had me confused for most of my life. People getting into a lot of trouble for a sensation I considered pleasant but nothing special. Until I got introduced to the asexuality spectrum and a lot of stuff clicked for me.
I’m still confused by how far out of their way some men seem to go for sex, but at least I can categorise it under ‘things that exist but do not apply to me, I guess’. Like ‘famous person that people seem to find really attractive but I just don’t get it’.
@Kat
OK, that was hilarious.
Like, how could women have first hand experience of the male orgasm?
Re: male orgasms not feeling that good.
(Obligatory TMI warning)
I’ve had a few partners that elicited unintentional vocal responses from me durning orgasm, so perhaps those with toes of migginess aren’t just shit in bed for their unfortunate partners, but for themselves as well.
…also, I’ve never had an orgasm while mastubating that was better than mid-level sex with another person, so if all they’re doing is masturbating – especially if they’re as terrible at it as they are at sex – then no, their orgasms probably don’t feel that good.
Bitterness just ain’t sexy, morons….
@ weirwoodtreehugger and Eprovonost – I recently saw a porn outtake where the actress had a genuine orgasm, because even performative sex is sex, and they treated it like, I don’t know, a sneezing fit that had interrupted the scene. She wasn’t in control, after all, and it was very different from the performance she’d been putting on – mostly trembling and a shaky “Oh my God”. Everyone has a good laugh, congratulates her and the actor, and into the “outtakes” section of the DVD special features it goes.
“It is known”…
“They say”…
“Everybody knows”…
“I’ve heard”…
… the depth of igno-right evidence is just amazing….
“Nuh-UH!”
So these guys not only suck at pleasuring women, they can’t even get themselves off properly? My dude, I don’t usually make noise while masturbating either, but during actual sex I can be, uh, very vocal. Yer doin’ it wrong.
When it comes to great sex vs meh sex, I think what’s going on between your ears is even more important than what’s going on between your legs. Never mind friction and angles, most people with have better orgasms with a valued friend than a “walking masturbation sleeve”. Even solo, fantasizng about someone gorgeous who’s really into you is going to be a whole lot hotter than burning with resentment.
Which do you suppose these guys do?
This is possibly the saddest thing I’ve ever read. And I read the “Fifteen Portraits of Despair” chapter of Sandman: Endless Nights. I actually think this speaks of a deeper lack of knowledge that men (really penis-havers in general, but I suspect that being trans requires one to know more in general) have about our own bodies, or certainly one that porn has warped. One aspect of the vicarious nature of the genre is that the men involved are ancillary. They shouldn’t make noise or express any pleasure of their own, especially during the “money shot.” European productions will sometimes cut to guys reaction shots, but I’ve never seen it in American gonzo stuff. Combining this with the pitfall of falling into the “death-grip” rut that Buttercup mentioned (I’ve been there myself), one can effectively desensitize themselves simply by that kind of repetition. As much as we like to goof on the “no jacking” weirdos for their bizarre ideas of what abstention does, what it does do is permit our minds and bodies to recover and prepare properly for the next pleasureful encounter. Give yourself a couple of days, think about something new and give yourself the space, and more important the time to let it build up gradually. One of the issues with internet-based smut is that it limits the ways we can interact with it. Unless you have something uploaded to a tablet, you’re basically going to be in a seated position at a desk with one hand on the mouse. Sitting in a bed or lying down flat, using toys as aids, these things completely change the experience and results in something far more powerful. This can all seem like common knowledge (and because adult entertainment caters to us so much, guys like the pretend they’re experts in their own anatomy when they really aren’t), but routine is a powerful draw and the ergonomic limits I don’t see discussed very often.
On the vagina-ed side, frankly… it just takes effort and knowledge of the person’s body. If there’s trust, they’ll tell you how they like to be touched. As an aside, this is what always gets me about those that oppose affirmative consent: if you have to somehow negotiate or hoodwink (or worse, coerce) a woman into sex, how great can that sex actually be if there’s no trust established? If that trust and caring is present, you can really get the fireworks going. At the risk of TMI, I’ve had shaking, panting, howling climaxes just from oral and I had enough practice with that particular partner to leave her shaking and wailing within 30 seconds of going down on her. And we both have a hearty laugh afterwards! To second what Seraph4377 mentioned, that’s the kind of real interaction that the best orgasms bring out: laughter. Because it’s fun, like sex should be!
Thank you for your opinions, gentlemen. Great way to go your own way, with a cast-iron guarantee that you will never be given a “first-hand” opportunity to find out about female orgasms, even if you remember that bit about “first hand”. The internet never forgets…
As a male commentator I would just like to say that I do usually make noise when I orgasm from masturbating so that assumption is incorrect.
The difference between performative sex and non-performative sex makes me think of the death scenes Christopher Lee talked about in his autobiography. When he first started acting and had his first death scene, the director was very annoyed at how Lee reacted to being stabbed. Lee had “died the wrong way” and had to learn how to die “the correct way” for the stage.
At this point in his life, Christopher Lee had just been demobbed from the RAF, and as he later put it, “Let’s just say I was in Special Forces and leave it at that.” Hunting Nazis was apparently his MOS after V-Day.
And yeah, masturbation is like having a nice hamburger. Really good sex with a partner with whom you share an emotional connection and knows your body and what you like? That’s like a multi-course meal prepared by an experienced chef. I’ve never been terribly vocal during masturbation, but making love with Mr. Parasol … totally different story.
@ Vicky P
He was in the Long Range Desert (Patrol) Group. That’s the unit David Stirling mooched off to create the SAS.
Well we certainly can assume the miggy OP is rubbish at getting himself off. On the other hand, I’ve generally found my own climax experiences to be of unpredictable intensity, quality generally declining as I get older. My medical condition may be relevant too. I’ll have to look into it.
O/T, but my article is up. Gaebolga won the title contest. It’s aimed at animal rights folks; but may be of some use to (English) activists generally.
https://advocates-for-animals.com/blog/146
@Sheila Crosby
I’m gonna venture a guess that for these guys the main goal of sex isn’t orgasm, it’s degrading a woman. MGTOWs and NoFappers view orgasm as weakness, because it’s a temporary loss of control, what with all the moaning and shuddering and grimaces and involuntary muscle contractions. Strong emotions leak out in unpredictable ways (some people laugh after climaxing, some people cry).
So any orgasmic activity other than ejaculation is bad because it makes them look weak in front of women, and it can be used later as kompromat against them. It’s no wonder they don’t get swept away during climax, when they’re actively trying to repress the emotional side of it.
I swear, when it comes to sex, they act like it’s a goddamn spy novel. DON’T GIVE HER ANYTHING, they warn each other. Name, rank, and serial number, that’s it. Keep all feelings (except for cold contempt) under lock and key. Maintain that all-important mastery.
And then they wonder why “women are incapable of true intimacy”.
@Alan: congrats! Going over to check it out right now.
@Lumipuna
I do. They are… different
I am forever perplexed by the number of men on the internet who will proudly and loudly brag of being bad at sex.
@ buttercup
Thank you! Any and all feedback gratefully received. Be as brutal as you like.
Alan’s article is very good. I am a total layperson and I learned a lot from it.
On the subject of orgasms. I am a lesbian, I’ve don’t tend to make much noise when getting myself off, but one girlfriend I had got me screaming the place down. And I returned the favour. I’ve also faked orgasms too because it was taking to long and I’d got a bit bored but didn’t want to offend that particular girlfriend.
@Alan
Nice article, and I’m tickled that you went with my suggested title; thank you!
@ Alan
Y’know, I had a private bet as to who would pick up on Lee’s military record, and if I’d put money on it, you would’ve made me a very rich woman.
Lee’s autobiographies (Tall, Dark, and Gruesome and Lord of Misrule) are fascinating reads. It’s like having dinner with the man and listen to him share the story of his life.
@ gaebolga
Thank you; for the great title; and to everyone else who chipped in. Much appreciated!
@ Vicky P
Heh, well you know me; and I do like the LRDG. I annoy my Hereford friends by always banging on about them (which is quite intentional).
@ varalys
Well yeah; but you are very clever. Hopefully it will be some use though. Got som good feedback on it already.They were kind enough to post it on LinkedIn and it appears to be doing the rounds with the relevant groups.
I’ll admit that one of the first things I think about when I hear the name ‘Christopher Lee’ is the ‘Name Your Poison’ song from The Return of Captain Invincible, in which Lee as a supervillain starts practising psychological warfare on the titular recovering alcoholic superhero by singing a pun-laden song about booze. My lord, what a singing voice he had, too.
Mai-tai say that I’m Old Fashioned…
My brain can be a very strange place at times, even for me.