By David Futrelle
Today, a brief visit to the Men Going Their Own Way subreddit, where men who claim they’ve given up women — and don’t even think about them any more — spend all day every day talking about women. This time, they’re talking about female orgasm, which according to them doesn’t exist.
Annoyed by a post in the badly named women-centric TwoXChromosomes subreddit in which a young woman wondered if she might possibly have just had her first orgasm while taking a highly stressful physics test, a MGTOW Redditor called TVTestPattern declares flatly that the female orgasm is a “myth.”
Oh, dude. Dude.
I feel a little bad for him. And a lot bad for any woman who may have suffered the misfortune of having sex with him.
Also, dude, the fake orgasm scene from When Harry Met Sally — which is what his final line links to — isn’t actually proof of anything, except perhaps that screenwriter Nora Ephron might just have endured some really shitty boyfriends and husbands in her day (we already knew she had one extra-shitty ex-husband, Carl Bernstein). But I digress.
The commenters in the MGTOW subreddit thought that Mr. TestPattern here was really onto something with his totally original female orgasm theory.
“I have always said this,” wrote YouLoseAgainDipshits.
As men, we know that orgasms don’t feel thatgood. When’s the last time you screamed and moaned while masturbating?
While women are drama queens, it’s clear they don’t even know what an orgasm is.
A guy called Avyctes managed to have an opinion that was somehow even worse than this.
“A female orgasm is irrelevant,” he wrote.
As long as the Man gets off. She’s nothing more, and a whole lot less, than a walking masturbation sleeve.
So weird that there are so many guys out there not only willing to admit that they’re terrible people, but also to make it absolutely clear that they are utter shit in bed. The internet is an amazing thing.
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So, this guy’s inference from that is that women are faking something that, he claims, doesn’t exist anyway? I always figured that women get off less reliably, but when they do it’s better. Whether to compensate (so they’ll be willing to do their bit for genes and chromosomes) or just because.
Of course the only real way to settle it would be with scientific research. Has there been any, or is orgasm quality as sadly neglected as most potential research topics that don’t center straight white cismen?
Being shit at sex to own the
libswimmenzBWAHAHAHAHA.
Oh, man. This is so very “said the fox about the grapes it couldn’t reach.”
@Surplus:
There’s been studies. Rather a lot of them, from Finland to Iran. 😛
Got to admit, I found the sponsor of this one rather amusing.
I love how they jump to the conclusion that female orgasm is a myth and not “Hey, maybe that one sexual technique from high school of lying on top and thrusting in and out as quickly might not be the best way to give someone an orgasm.”
All people with clitori do not scream and loudly moan while orgasming. These dudes have clearly gotten that idea from porn. So their evidence that all women are acting during sex, is footage of women who are being paid to act during sex. Do not realize that porn actors aren’t exactly a representative sample?
“Orgasms don’t feel that good”
Male orgasms don’t feel that good. Trust me, I have some pretty first-hand experience here. And maybe you’re just bad at getting yourself off?
@weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
Porn actress are acting. The reality of it is in the name of their job. Porn doesn’t try to repesent sex more then it tries to represent the public fantasies about sex. I suppose these guys have very little to no experience of sexual intercourse with women and if they do they are terrible at it. Let’s call this form of fallacy argumentum ad masturbari. It’s the closest latin form I could come up with. Basically the fallacy of taking your lack or inept experience at sex as widesprayed truth.
PS: I know it’s actually more a form of reification fallacy, but reification is complicated and rater vague.
Another comment on “Orgasms don’t feel that good”: Dude, if you really don’t enjoy sex, nobody’s forcing you to do it. Oh, wait: nobody except the shitty manospherian culture, which judges men by their ability to be “alpha male” studs and condemns them for not living up to that ridiculous, impossible standard. Never mind.
If female orgasms do not exist, then what exactly are lesbians doing with each other? Are they just showing off how loud they can moan at each other? Oh, that’s right, MGTOW’s claim that there’s no such thing as lesbians either.
I really don’t understand the alternate reality these people live in.
BTW, I’m a cis gender, straight woman and I’ve had thousands of orgasms, either with a male partner or with myself and I can attest that it is possible to orgasm without moaning or screaming, etc. Especially when you don’t want to wake up your kids in the next room…duh! (fucking morons).
So we can talk about some noises or actions during sex as being performative, but some of them are also communicative. This is absolutely just my own experience, but quite often I will make more noise when I’m having partnered sex than when I’m playing a solo round because I’m sharing and communicating my enjoyment to my partner.
Like, I’m more vocally appreciative of a tasty bowl of soup when someone else has made it, too. That doesn’t mean pleasurable soup consumption doesn’t exist.
I read about a study recently (maybe it was linked here?) where, secondary to whatever they were actually trying to quantify, they discovered that their operational definition of cis lady orgasms did not agree with the test subjects’ reports of when they were having an orgasm.
One of the scientists thought this meant the test subjects didn’t know what orgasms are. The other thought this meant that their way of “measuring” orgasms was insufficient.
So yes, still some ways to go until we’ll get any interesting research on this. Subjective evaluations are likely to be the best we’re going to get, kind of like we’re dealing with evaluating pain. “How enjoyable would you rate this orgasm on a scale of 1-10 where 1 is mildly pleasant and 10 is the purest, most intense ecstasy and bliss you can imagine?”
I’m so confused. So many people saying male orgasms aren’t that good, actually, but men use the promise or hope of an orgasm to justify basically anything and everything.
Poor deluded MGTOWer. I will have you know that my wife had several orgasms last night, I was even in the room for some of them
Well, there’s also a school of thought that lesbians are “only” doing it until a man happens in, or to turn on the imaginary man who isn’t there …
@tim
That made me laugh a bit.
Is this another one of those “women aren’t human” things?? Cause while, yes, comparatively speaking our biology varies in how it is arranged, both men’s and women’s bodies possess the same type of nerve clusters, and if they are stimulated, they will produce an orgasm, provided you find the right spot to rub.
As for vocalization, I’m with Viscaria here, I’d say about 85% of noisy sex is communicative and largely depends on how unselfconscious a person is. Though, on occasion the going is so good, whether solo or in tandem, that one gasps quite loudly (and involuntarily) to one’s own surprise (and perhaps the surprise of one’s neighbors on the other side of the wall who are like WTF is going on there, why is she having sex this good at 3 in the afternoon). What I’m sayin’ is YMMV (though maybe not TVTestPattern’s, he seems confused and kind of disappointed in his own orgasms).
@Monday Middlemarch:
TMI Warning
Re the “what are lesbians doing with each other?” I’ve got news for these jack wagons: if my (sadly, probably soon 2 be ex) girlfriend was acting when we were intimate with each other, she’s in the wrong damned business.
To say she very much enjoyed my giving her pleasure was a freaking understatement–she damned near blew the roof off showing her appreciation–and we were pretty sure the neighbors could hear her.
Me? I was somewhat quieter but no less enthusiastic re her attentions. YMMV
Just goes 2 show how woefully ignorant these dip sticks are. Lord pity the woman who makes the mistake of letting one of ’em near her. She’s going to be severely disappointed…to say nothing of frustrated as hell.
@ Lainy:
Tim’s comment made me smile as well, which I needed 2day. Thx Tim.
Kupo – for men like these, sex is a grimly serious competition; orgasms are just their way of keeping score.
@Robert
That explains that one reddit post about the bf who has jerk-off competitions with his friends.
@some migtoe moron:
Well, dude, then why are you wanking and moaning around on the Internets? Go buy yourself a fleshlight and go your own way for real. You won’t be missed, and neither will your drivel!
Whee doggie! I just love their arguments from incredulity.
There’s different levels of orgasm. There’s the physical release, but then there’s also a significant mental component (the “mind blowing” part). For some men, ejaculation is a minor sensation, akin to popping bubble wrap. I wouldn’t be surprised if that was more common among these death-grip types.
@Bina:
As I like to say, MGTOW don’t really want to go their own way. They’re like little kids who make a loud and dramatic show of running away from home. The kid doesn’t actually want to leave – if they did, they’d slip away quietly without drawing attention to themself. They want their parents to realize they’ve mistreated the kid and grovel for forgiveness. When MGTOW threaten to GTOW, they’re hoping women will think “Oh man, we screwed up and took men for granted. But we need men because [Insert misogynistic myth here]. If we don’t get back in their good graces we’ll really be sorry!”
With this level of reasoning it is no wonder flat earth is popular again.
*cringe*
Guys like this make total asses out of themselves by their obvious lack of any kind of sexual experience( let along knowledge) Even jerking off FFS!
Women can fake an orgasm but not squirting! Teehee