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Men’s Rights Redditor: Laws against rape are a shit test women use to filter out men who aren’t “man enough to push past protestations”

What dudes who “push past resistance” actually deserve

By David Futrelle

Today, just another example of the sort of toxic nonsense that gets upvotes in the Men’s Rights subreddit, despite the protestations from Reddit MRAs that they really aren’t about hate at all.

What I’ve got for you is a rather remarkable comment from longtime Men’s Rights Redditor DavidByron2 — a fellow with quite a history of reprehensible opinions — responding to an OP who had argued that “feminism is a shit test to weed out weak men” — that is, that women use feminism in order to figure out which guys are “manly enough” to disobey its rules, because these Chadly anti-feminist rule-breakers are the men that women (even some feminists) really want to get with.

Mr. Byron2 suggests that this applies as well to laws against rape.

Yep, that’s right: he’s convinced himself that “real” — or at least non-feminist women — prefer men who ignore their “noes,” because I guess he thinks these women prefer “manly” date-rapists to feminist men who are so wimpy they’ll only have sex with women who’ve consented to it.

DavidByron2 12 points 1 year ago 
Yes; in the same way that having laws against rape can be seen as a shit test. Of course the real feminists don't see it this way because real feminists hate all men. But for a lot of women that aren't feminists the "shit test" is a way to filter out men that are not "man enough" to break the rules and push past protestations, so yeah, all of feminism operates like a "shit test" for her because she can pretend to take offense at stuff using feminism as a pretext when she's really not offended by any of that stuff, but just looking for a way to filter out "weak" men.

The concept isn't unique to all that dating crap that the Red Pillers go on about. Plenty of examples of females forcing males to perform in nature with many species. Dances, nest building, collecting shit, extreme body parts, whatever. The shit test is the same except the female forces the male to risk social ill will by seeing if they will be brave enough to break the rules. Or something like that.

and if you pass it, you can still end up in jail or broke living on the streets

Yes in some species the female eat the male afterwards. Looks like humans might be heading that way.

I’m not quite sure I’m following his logic at the end, but apparently, for straight guys, only having sex with women who consent to it is equivalent to … having your head bitten off by a praying mantis?

Byron2 got a dozen upvotes for the bizarre rape apologia, because of course he did. I mean, honestly, his argument — awful as it is — isn’t that far off from the terrible anti-date-rape-law arguments of Warren Farrell, the intellectual grandpappy of the Men’s Rights movement, in his still-influential 1993 book The Myth of Male Power — opinions he’s still defending to this day.

But that’s a whole other post. Or maybe two.

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weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Does this guy think that women wrote laws against rape? Cuz, pretty sure they were around way before women were able to be legislators.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
1 year ago

Cuz, pretty sure they were around way before women were able to be legislators

As evidenced in the very name. It’s from the Latin rapere; and means to carry off or steal. It’s a declaration of women as property; and originally had nothing to do with sex.

ETA: You committed Raptus merely by removing a woman from her lawful paterfamilias. Sex wasn’t a required element of the offence.

Catalpa
Catalpa
1 year ago

I’m pretty sure that the “logic” at the end goes like this:

“Women don’t really mean it when they say know, it’s just a shit test to see if you’re a weak man! And if you pass the shit test (by committing rape), women are such deceitful creatures that they might decide to accuse you of rape even though you proved what a manly man you are! It’s just like how female mantises devour their mates after allowing the male to have sex with them!”

Now excuse me while I go puke.

Pagan Reader - Misandrist Spinster
Pagan Reader - Misandrist Spinster
1 year ago

Brain bleach!
comment image
(Itty bitty kitty committee)

comment image
(Charlene Butterbean, itty bitty kitty committee)

comment image
(Itty bitty kitty committee)

epronovost
epronovost
1 year ago

This is just another proof that there is no limit some people will not cross to deny, hide or justify their cruelty and, especially, their immense stupidity. This sort of people sit straight at the intersection of idiocy and cruelty.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Aww. Kitties. I’m going to the shelter with my mom tomorrow to pick out a cat for her. I can’t wait. I wish I could adopt one for me too, but my house is full up. I’ll report back with pictures of my new family member though.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
1 year ago

It’s convenient how “what women really want” always seems to align exactly with “(awful thing I want to do to them)”. That way, these guys don’t have to feel the slightest bit guilty: hey, they’re just giving women what they want. That makes them the good guys. And anyway, women are depraved for wanting the awful thing, which further justifies doing the awful thing to them.

Rabid Rabbit
Rabid Rabbit
1 year ago

In 1405 — please retain that date, 1405 — Christine de Pizan published her Book of the City of Ladies, in which, among other things, she denounced hearing men claim that

women want to be raped and aren’t at all displeased to be forced, even if they deny this aloud.

I can’t find the rest of the passage online, but I do know that it explicitly says that women who say “No” actually mean it, you idiots.

Seriously, guys, there is textual evidence that women have been telling us this for over 600 years. Get it into your thick skulls, would you???

An Impish Pepper
An Impish Pepper
1 year ago

OT but I wanted to get this off my chest somewhere because the people I usually talk to about life stuff these days are mostly about career advice, and while this is related to career stuff, it’s more of a background to some of what I want to discuss. Plus it’s the weekend and nobody seems to respond to emails on weekends (for understandable and wholly justified reasons, of course).

I guess I’ll lead in with the career stuff. Last winter, I got into a really bad place emotionally and wrote to a bunch of people and places (including this site) in hopes of finding something, anything to try to force a change in my life. Finally, I registered for and went to U of T in January to attend a career-related conference. I really just needed to get out of the house for a while. I met with some staff and told them about my communication struggles, and one thing led to another and I had access to the school’s career program again.

I don’t remember how robust the program was when I was officially eligible to use it, because all I remember was that there was a job board, and I had no luck with those. (The fact that even “must-have” lists are overly specified, such that it’s common practice to apply even for qualifying for just most of the list, is absolute bullshit and is just a small part of what makes job postings pretty much unusable for people like me who had to tease out this kind of insight by themselves from the few non-judgmental resources that exist.) In any case, I wasn’t SOL on my own this time because I now had a contact on the inside whom I could trust and meet on a semi-regular basis. I was encouraged to attend a few “classes” and other events. I even visited the Scarborough campus for a thing. That place is like a JRPG dungeon and I don’t know how anyone finds anything.

In the months since all this started, the provincial government has thrown a tantrum at postsecondary education (among many other things), and now loans have been drastically cut and grants are practically nonexistent (there are still federal grants, but I don’t trust Canadians not to put Scheer into the PMO, and we saw from the last Conservative PM how ineffective the checks and balances even on a minority government are). I guess I didn’t mention this before, but grad school was one avenue that I kind of wanted to pursue, but all but gave up for life reasons. While I haven’t done all the research to be sure, it does feel like that particular ambition is even further out of reach for me now. It seems like my best options there would be to move to a province that actually cares about doing its actual damn job of investing in forces like education that move society, or wait until 2022 and cross my fingers that the next government properly reverses all this nonsense. Both seem like long shots, honestly. And even though I have the money I need now to finish off my outstanding loans, I just don’t see a reason to do it anymore. Why not just keep dragging my feet like before? It’s not like I have an application deadline or anything.

Anyway, I do feel like I’ve made some progress on actually taking my life somewhere, but I also still feel really lonely and all the career stuff has helped take that feeling on a weird turn. I think I mentioned here before how I feel like people around my age are now doing really awesome stuff. The events I’ve gone to have put me in these peculiar situations where I’m actually older than all or nearly all the other people, including the coordinators and other alumni, but I’m also still young enough that the coordinators and other alumni are much closer to my age than to the students’ ages. And so I sometimes get these thoughts about how these older people seem really cool and it might be nice to have continued professional or even non-professional relationships with them. (I’m being non-specific about this because I’m a bit paranoid that one of them will read this post and instantly figure out that it’s me and things might get awkward for me.) They’re not really teachers, I only ever had one evaluation that wasn’t even a big deal, and my relationship with the program will end at the end of July… or maybe I’m just telling these things to myself to justify these feelings toward them that I don’t know how to resolve. I don’t know how to interact with the students, either, as interactions with them have me second-guessing as to how much I could really relate with them, on top of the general issues I have.

I really tried not to make this too long but yeah.

ChunkySpaghettiSauce
ChunkySpaghettiSauce
1 year ago

I’m not quite sure I’m following his logic at the end, but apparently, for straight guys, only having sex with women who consent to it is equivalent to … having your head bitten off by a praying mantis?

Unfortunately, I do think I know what he’s trying to say—that when men face consequences for raping women, they are the “real” victims. Since we all know the women “secretly wanted it anyway,” they’re just being cruel for wanting the men punished afterwards, like a female praying mantis killing the male after they mate.

barf

Bina
1 year ago

Funny, but the last time a guy pushed past MY protestations, I never wanted to see the motherfucker again. Except maybe in court, on trial for all the times he’d done it to someone else. Because he was so quick and slick about it, I’m sure he’d had practice on other girls before me. And that just makes me heartsick, because it also means he got away with it before me, and probably AFTER me, too.

But hey, maybe our menzer has a point. It IS a shit test. Men who rape their dates…are shit. And they flunk.

(Also, the notion that this is all some kind of “test” itself is shit. But we knew that already.)

Big Titty Demon
Big Titty Demon
1 year ago

@Impish Pepper

I’m not 100% that I understood what you were asking advice about, but if it is either a) how to be an older graduate student or b) can you be friends with staff… I can only offer my own experience and hope that it is applicable.

I have been a graduate student 3 times in my life (including now), all of them stemming from the need to have health insurance without paying all the money ever (you may guess from this that I live in the US, and you would be right). The second time I was a graduate student was right before Obamacare passed and I was in desperate need of a surgery but could not get insurance due to pre-existing conditions. I no longer know anyone from that department except the academic coordinator and public relations specialist. She and I are personal friends these past 8 years. So of course I think it would be fine to have an extra-academic relationship with staff at your institution.

I am now a graduate student again, and I am quite a bit older than most of my peers. It has not been an issue for me: I attribute this to the fact that graduate students tend to be less judgemental about that sort of thing than college students, and even than some in the general non-academic populace. I am not in a field widely known for its tolerance, either, and had gone in preparing to be isolated. It was a pleasant surprise to find 3 very good friends.

Kestrel
Kestrel
1 year ago

@Impish Pepper- I want to preface this by saying I am not a mental health professional, this is just my opinion as someone who has felt similarly. It sounds to me like you are struggling with depression and social anxiety.

I have been there. I had a complete mental breakdown in college. I have never been able to go back and finish my degree. I have struggled with depression and anxiety most of my life. I became agoraphobic for almost a decade.

If possible, I would speak to a therapist. I know how hard it is take that step, but in my experience, it is worth it.

I wish you all the best.

Not Edward
Not Edward
1 year ago

It seems to me the driving force behind inceldom is the attempt to deny the obvious reality that women won’t sleep with them because the incels are a***holes.
The standard tactic is to deny it is because the incels are a***holes and instead blame the women.
On occasion incels will go all sour grapes and claim they don’t want women in the first place (MGTOW and “semen retention” etc).
A further tactic is to insist they are somehow entitled to sex and insist women are or should be obliged to sleep with them anyway.
Another tactic is to claim that women won’t sleep with them because they are insufficiently a***holes, and in fact it is because they are “too nice”. The above vomit-inducing horrorshow is an extreme example of this, in that Mr Byron2 is basically saying is that the reason women won’t sleep with him is because he is far too much of a great, stand-up, gentlemanly guy to actually rape anybody.

Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
1 year ago

[F]or a lot of women that aren’t feminists the “shit test” is a way to filter out men that are not “man enough” to break the rules and push past protestations, so yeah, all of feminism operates like a “shit test” for her because she can pretend to take offense at stuff using feminism as a pretext when she’s really not offended by any of that stuff, but just looking for a way to filter out “weak” men.

The concept isn’t unique to all that dating crap that the Red Pillers go on about. Plenty of examples of females forcing males to perform in nature with many species. Dances, nest building, collecting shit, extreme body parts, whatever. The shit test is the same except the female forces the male to risk social ill will by seeing if they will be brave enough to break the rules. Or something like that.

Building a nest? Yep, can confirm. I make all my boyfriends build me a house before I’ll have anything to do with them.

But secretly I hope that one — all I need is one, the one — will break the rules of the matriarchy and not build me a house. Because that would be hot. Or something like that.

Weatherwax
Weatherwax
1 year ago

Wow. Yet again, a misogynist demonstrates how to be 100% wrong. Nobody tell this guy about the “No” Test, as his head might explode.

http://www.impactforwomen.org.au/news-articles–blogs/what-is-the-no-test-and-why-its-powerful-and-important

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
1 year ago

I just want to add a source of brainbleach for thoses in need :
https://twitter.com/CagleCats
Someone who meticulously document how cute her cats (and fosters) are.

Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
1 year ago

OT

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/21/donald-trump-sexual-assault-allegation-e-jean-carroll-new-york-latest-accusation

Donald Trump accused of sexually assaulting writer E Jean Carroll

Carroll alleges that Trump assaulted her in a Bergdorf Goodman dressing room in 1995 or 1996, as president says he ‘never met’ her

Donald Trump is facing a fresh allegation that he sexually assaulted a woman in his days as a real estate developer in the mid 1990s, adding to the long list of claims against him of sexual misconduct.

In a cover story in New York magazine, the writer and celebrated agony aunt E Jean Carroll relates an incident in which she encountered Trump in the Manhattan department store Bergdorf Goodman some time in late 1995 or early 1996. She was 52 years old and had recently started an advice column for Elle magazine called Ask E Jean, and he would have been 49 or 50, and married to Marla Marples.

In a lengthy statement issued on Friday, Trump said he “never met this person in my life”.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/21/police-called-to-loud-altercation-at-boris-johnsons-home

Boris Johnson: police called to loud altercation at potential PM’s home

Exclusive: Neighbour records shouting and banging at flat MP shares with Carrie Symonds

Police were called to the home of Boris Johnson and his partner, Carrie Symonds, in the early hours of Friday morning after neighbours heard a loud altercation involving screaming, shouting and banging.

The argument could be heard outside the property where the potential future prime minister is living with Symonds, a former Conservative party head of press.

A neighbour told the Guardian they heard a woman screaming followed by “slamming and banging”. At one point Symonds could be heard telling Johnson to “get off me” and “get out of my flat”.

JenniferAndLightning
JenniferAndLightning
1 year ago

@Weatherwax Thank you for the link. While there are no universals in domestic violence, I think that is a highly applicable test.

It calls to mind another form of testing, which seems like almost the contrapositive of the “No test,” that some people (mostly predatory men) do where they push small boundaries to see how a potential victim reacts to having boundaries pushed.

Many people in my field do think that teaching women to be more assertive is a key prevention tool, but (in addition to putting the onus on the victim or potential victim) I worry that training women to be more assertive with potentially violent men is dangerous. I loved that the article made note of that. I do wish that it used the term “toxic masculinity,” rather than just describing problematic male attitudes.

Big Titty Demon
Big Titty Demon
1 year ago

@Weatherwax

Thanks for the link. I found it highly useful. I loved where he says about men saying it’s so hard and confusing to be a man and he then says, “It’s very easy to be a man. Just be polite and respectful to people, it’s not that difficult really.” True, and also, weirdly enough, that’s exactly how to be a woman or any other gender as well. As he says, it’s not that difficult really.

Scanisaurus
Scanisaurus
1 year ago

I’m not sure if it’s stupid of me to bring it up here, but I recently had a long argument with a female relative who praised the movie The piano as this feminist masterpiece by a female filmmaker and talked me into seeing it, but I just found it upsetting because I just saw the same sexist story that’s in damn near all period pieces with a female lead, a woman trapped in an abusive marriage and her only mode of agency comes in using her body and sexuality to trade what she wants from another man, and in the third act she’s just reduced to a chewtoy pulled between the two men. Also, there is a sexual assault scene, and I was just so sad and angry that a someone I trusted talked me into seeing that movie, despite that I had been clear that I didn’t want to see more stories of women being assaulted or sexually coerced, yet she saw zero problem with it since she didn’t see any of it as coercion on part of the male lead, and the assault was interrupted before it escalated, and “that’s how it was for women in the 1850’s”.

I just want to know if I’m the only one who felt the movie was just gross and romanticizing sexual abuse, with a guy buying her piano off the heroine’s husband just so he could demand sexual favours of her in exchange for her to get to play her own piano (she was mute and that piano her only way of expressing herself), and keep demanding it despite her being shown to be uncomfortable with it? Am I weird for being grossed out by it, or to want a period piece with a female protagonist that doesn’t revolve around all men abusing her for being a woman, and not want to see a period piece that do revolve around that stuff ever again? I just whish I could feel I’m not stupid for feeling this way.

numerobis
numerobis
1 year ago

Kat: I built a tent with most, if not all, of my sexual partners before getting involved with them. Does that count?

Bookworm in hijab
Bookworm in hijab
1 year ago

@ Scanisaurus, I haven’t seen the movie, but it sounds like you set clear boundaries with your relative regarding what you were willing to watch, and your boundaries were violated. You’re quite right to be angry.

Also, while assault and rape were a part of many women’s lives (and still are, of course; it’s just we’re discussing period movies), there’s no reason for a historical film (or ANY film) to use them gratuitously or to eroticize them. Tbh I don’t watch a lot of movies, so my standard for this is books, but I’ve noticed that a lot of books have these detailed descriptions of rapes, and I find it appalling. You can acknowledge, as a writer/filmmaker/whatever that this happens and have it as part of the plot, without making it a full, detailed, eroticized scene.

I don’t find women any better than men about this. Just read (actually don’t) Diana Gabaldon’s Outlander series.

Lightcastle
Lightcastle
1 year ago

I thought the logic of the end is fairly clear. The point of the shit test is to weed out the weak genes. One thing that is known (for values of “known” that are “part of the worldview of these people”) is the whole thing where Betas are forced to raise kids the woman got from Alphas.

The ultimate test is that you will go to prison for rape in order to have sex. Therefore, evolution is working towards women only selecting for rapists. Just like only a spider willing to risk death is fit for reproduction, only a man willing to risk a rape charge will be fit.

It’s SCIENCE!

kupo
kupo
1 year ago

@Lightcastle
That would only make sense if you didn’t understand anything about human reproduction and…..

…..oh.

Lightcastle
Lightcastle
1 year ago

@kupo – Yup.

@ Scanisaurus – You aren’t remotely alone. I remember it being criticized by bell hooks no less when it came out. There were definitely readings arguing both sides. If I recall, Campion herself said she didn’t think of it as a feminist film.

Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
1 year ago

On the subject Scanisaurus bought up,

If some people here have seen Tale of Princess Kaguya by Isao Takahata – Do you think it generally needs a trigger warning for sexual assault, if I’m going to recommend it to people?

I think that movie is an amazing masterpiece in animated expression – perhaps unfortunately including said assault, which is only about 1-second long creepy clothed hug. (It also seems to be a major plot element, unfortunately. I haven’t seen anyone discuss this particular theme in mentions of the movie.)

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
1 year ago

@ Lumipuna:

I’d say if you ask if it needs a trigger warning, then a trigger warning would be appropriate. 🙂

Bookworm in hijab
Bookworm in hijab
1 year ago

@ Lumipuna and Weird(…)Eddie,

I am in favour of trigger warnings; they’ve been a big help to me, and to many others.

My sister is against them, for the reason that sometimes an element of a book or film is meant to be a surprise, and if there is a trigger warning for, say, violence, then the reader/viewer is always anticipating it, which ruins the surprise. I can see her point; I just disagree for personal reasons.

Maybe if you are recommending the film to a specific person, you could ask if they want a sense of what possible negative things to expect?

If you’re just, say, posting on your blog for anyone to come across, I’d say that asking if it needs a warning means it does indeed need a warning.

Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
1 year ago

I’d say if you ask if it needs a trigger warning, then a trigger warning would be appropriate.

Fair point. Maybe I’m just reluctant because my gut instinct is, if it needs such a warning, then it’s not really worth recommending (I mean to people generally, not specific individuals with known sensitivity). I know this is not how trigger warnings work, but my friends might easily misunderstand.

kupo
kupo
1 year ago

@Lumipuna
If it’s something that needs a trigger warning that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t recommend it. In fact, some films I love best are ones I have to mentally prepare for some of the scenes in. The trigger warning isn’t about “don’t watch this if you’re sensitive to…” it’s about allowing the person to determine if they’re able and willing to handle the content and to prepare themselves so they’re not caught unawares and suddenly having a panic attack (or whatever else might be triggered for that individual).

Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
1 year ago

I know. It just seems like a plot spoiler, if I were to explain what exactly is coming.

I previously recommended another Takahata film, Grave of the Fireflies, to my friend – in that case, the trigger warning was basically a brief description of what the movie is about. (Also, it’s a movie that everyone says needs a trigger warning, so it didn’t feel so odd.)

Robert
Robert
1 year ago

I’m reading “Dinner with a Cannibal”. Early on, the author describes various forms of postcoital cannibalism (e.g., spiders, insects) and points out that the nutrition from the devoured male increases the likeliness of healthy offspring from the devouring female. Thus, the male’s reproductive fitness is actually enhanced by being eaten.

An interesting perspective, to be sure.

Hambeast
Hambeast
1 year ago

I have to admit that I’ve never seen the big problem with trigger warnings. I save my annoyance for people that do have a problem with them.

But I don’t want others to experience undue upset, even if it’s accidental or unintentional. So, it’s not a real hardship to skim past two words on a page or screen even if I feel I’m unlikely to be upset by the contents. Plus, I have heeded one or two on bad days, myself.

It is, of course, a bit more of a burden to attach a warning to content one creates but it’s still not such a big deal. Especially since it just might mean more eyes on your creation!

Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
1 year ago

Robert – AFAIK in many spider species the male being eaten thing doesn’t usually happen after a successful copulation, but is much more likely during courtship, if the female is slightly more in the mood for hunting than mating.

Generally in spiders, it seems that female sexual consent mostly consists of suppression of hunting instinct. Not very analogous to humans, I’d say.

Ellesar
Ellesar
1 year ago

This reminds me of something that I HATED when I was a child. Those films where the hero forces the love interest into kissing – she turns away a few times and then passionately submits.

Of course at the age of 10 I did not know what it was about, I just knew I hated it.

That whole thing about women being too eager makes them promiscuous ‘easy’ women, this attitude is still going strong. Recently I read about teen girls not carrying condoms because it would make them seem too keen.

This is of course a far cry from the shit this arsehole is banging on about, but I have to commend him for once more scraping a barrel I thought had been scraped to the wood as far as it could go.

Shadowplay
1 year ago

I have to commend him for once more scraping a barrel I thought had been scraped to the wood as far as it could go.

Give the fools a teeny bit of credit – there’s an entire planet under the bottom of the barrel to scrape through.

Shadowplay
1 year ago

@An Impish Pepper

Remember your last post on this. First off and most important, really glad things are improved for you!

Can’t advise much on the whole friends thing – I don’t make them easily, or feel much of a need to – but this:

And even though I have the money I need now to finish off my outstanding loans, I just don’t see a reason to do it anymore. Why not just keep dragging my feet like before? It’s not like I have an application deadline or anything.

If you can pay it off without compromising your ability to live (and your run-out fund), pay it off. While you may not yet have a deadline now, you will eventually, so getting ahead of the jump is a nice feeling.
That’d be my advice.

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
1 year ago

@ All;

Oh, I DO hope we’re still talking about hair color….

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Scanisaurus
Scanisaurus
1 year ago

@Bookworm in hijab, Lightcastle
Thank you so much, your words mean a lot to me and I agree with everything you said.

The big problem with my relative is that she genuinley didn’t seem able to see why such things upset me or why anyone would interpret it as glorifying sexual abuse, she literally said “we interpreted it differently, let it go”, and she’s told me I shouldn’t subject myself to say, war movies, and only stick to comedies instead, despite I’ve tried tell her over and over again, it’s not violence or sad themes or respectful non-graphic depictions of sexual abuse that upsets me, it’s sexual abuse being treated as ubiquitous and inevitable for any female protagonist not a Disney Princess and gratuitously and graphically included just for “realism”.

It’s just so frustrating since despite being a vocal feminist, she just brushes off my feelings on this by saying that stuff like the wage gap are more important, and “it’s a man’s world we live in, accept it” or “the filmmakers are just following commercial interests, and men have the money”, and I don’t know what to say. Like, whatever I tell her she only tells me to let my feelings go and avoid anything that upsets me – which was what I was trying to do by trusting her in the first place.

Regarding the discussion of triggers, I’d say always err on the side of caution, and merely mentioning the prescence of violence, sexual abuse or anything else commonly triggering should never deserve to be called a spoiler. A spoiler would be to reveal who’s the killer in a crime story or some big plot-changeing twist, not a honest warning of things that could cause serious harm to people with ptsd or depression. Should we stop writing allergy warnings on food labels as to not ruin the surprise for non-allergic?

Personally, I’m just sick of seeing people argue that we should sacrifice the mental health of the most vulnerable for the sake of entertainment for immature persons wanting to bask in shock value.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

If anyone needs brainbleach, here’s the promised pictures of my mom’s new cat.

Her name is Clover. She’s one years old. A stray who was lucky enough to get a forever home with a total cat person. She’s very sweet and very vocal and curious.

Hopefully this embeds because I’m too lazy to find a photo site.

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After coming home, she went under the bookshelf, but welcomed pets if you stuck your hand in their, so I think she’ll acclimate quickly.

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Scanisaurus
Scanisaurus
1 year ago

I forgot to add, but what galled me the most about The piano is seeing the heroine selling her body for a piano that was rightfully hers to begin with framed as “empowerment” and her being in control of her own body, despite her being put in that choice only happened exactly because she didn’t have any control. The thing is, The girl with the Dragon Tattoo had almost exactly the same setup where Lisbeth Salander is a hacker who needs a computer to work, but once hers is broken her legal guardian demands sexual favors before allowing her the money she needs for a new one, but there I didn’t feel triggered because it was rightfully framed as a severe sexual violation and abuse of power, but I just found it so very telling that when the piano framed it as “romantic”, the Girl with the Dragon tattoo used the exact same scenario to show how evil and abusive one of the villains were.

tim gueguen
1 year ago

To follow up Ohlmann’s post Mary Cagle is the creator, writer, and artist of the webcomics Kiwi Blitz and Sleepless Domain.

Yutolia the Green Hash Pronoun Boner
Yutolia the Green Hash Pronoun Boner
1 year ago

Unfortunately, how it is portrayed on screen all has to do with how we are supposed to feel about the that male character. If we are *supposed to like him like we are in the Piano then it’s all portrayed as ok and even good for the woman. If he’s supposed to be a villain, then it’s portrayed differently.

*not because I actually like any of these characters, it’s just that a lot of movies (raunchy comedies, for example) depend on on us liking characters that commit sexual assault.

Jesalin: Clit-o-centric Lesbian Goddess
Jesalin: Clit-o-centric Lesbian Goddess
1 year ago

OMG Clover is so adorable!

An Impish Pepper
An Impish Pepper
1 year ago

I now recall that I must have discussed grad school before because I remember saying I was blocked off from OSAP funding as a result of using repayment assistance. It just feels especially cruel that I spent the entirety of Wynne’s last term just getting to the point of having a job at all and being able to pay off the debt in a shorter time, only for a large enough portion of Ontarians to decide that they wanted to own the libs or whatever. I’ve heard people blame Doug Ford for being an extremist dictator-wannabe, but just like Trump in the U.S., the party around him has been extreme for many years (John Tory being an exception except people were slashing the tires of the PCs’ political opponents when he was running for premier) and they’re the ones who chose him. They even got heavy backing from a group called “Ontario Proud,” which is pretty much what you think it is.

@Shadowplay

Thanks, though I’m not sure I’ve progressed that much and sometimes I feel like I’ve hardly progressed at all. The staff I’ve interacted with at school do assure me that I’ve accomplished a lot, and they compliment my writing and stuff. As for the loan thing, I guess it was more about my frustration at the political situation, and really there’s no reason not to keep to my original plan based on finishing it off in the fall. It feels bad to have one of the big reasons I planned it out that way be in jeopardy.

@Big Titty Demon

Sorry, I must have been more incoherent than I thought at the end there. I’m not a grad student, just using a program intended for undergrads and recent grads looking for career paths to transition into. (So the younger students I mentioned are mostly undergrads; I even caught myself thinking “those poor kids” after the reality of the OSAP cuts hit them this past Wednesday.) I guess my concern is related to a discussion I saw here a while ago about age and power differentials in dating. It does seem to be true, both inside and outside of dating, that two people with a significant enough power differential can’t really be friends or partners in a healthy sense. But maybe this isn’t actually a problem in my case? The biggest thing really is that I submitted a sort of application that they then evaluated, and their approval could be revoked if I exhibited unprofessional behaviour. But that situation most likely won’t even be repeated, so…?

@Kestrel

I’ve gone to a therapist and speech-language pathologists in the past and they weren’t really successful in getting me to communicate a whole lot. I’m also honestly kind of skeptical of therapists as I have gained somewhat of an understanding of the limitations of the commonly used therapies and it just doesn’t seem like they’ll help me much. I’ve thought about the possibility that I have depression and/or social anxiety, but I’m not sure that either describes my situation as well as I thought in the past. I’ve suspected for a while now that I’m suffering from some kind of “autistic burnout,” and if that’s the case then I really doubt that conventional therapy would help me.

@Scanisaurus

I really dislike the notion that atrocious acts and opinions from people in the past were just how it was in the past. It just seems like a way to give the impression that society has progressed so much since those barbaric days of yore. White men used to be so cruel, we get that, but we white men are better than that now!

Except when white men in the past wrote their bad opinions, it was for a reason. They were writing in response to something. When Voltaire wrote racist stuff against Jews, Muslims, and black people, he was saying that because Jews, Muslims, and black people were writing to fight against racism. But that last part gets glossed over in history class. Talk about being doomed to repeat it…

Bookworm in hijab
Bookworm in hijab
1 year ago

@ Scanisaurus,

 it’s not violence or sad themes or respectful non-graphic depictions of sexual abuse that upsets me, it’s sexual abuse being treated as ubiquitous and inevitable for any female protagonist not a Disney Princess and gratuitously and graphically included just for “realism”.

THIS, yes! One of my favourite historical novels has a main female character who is raped, but it is NOT graphic, it IS necessary for the plot, it DOESN’T present it as “ok because history”, it’s in no way presented as erotic, and the rest of that book plus sequel include a lot about how she heals herself emotionally. I thought it was empathetic and realistic rather than gratuitous.

Weirwoodtreehugger, thank you for posting those gorgeous cat pics! Many hearts!💖💖💖💖💖

TB Tabby
TB Tabby
1 year ago

If they’re willing to take this “shit test” argument to its logical extreme, than anyone can be portrayed as wanting the opposite of what they say they want. “You said you wanted regular coffee, but that’s obviously a shit test to weed out the weak baristas who are afraid to give you the decaf you obviously want!” And of course, your saying you want to get laid is obviously a shit test to weed out the weak women who are afraid to deny you the lifetime of celibacy you obviously want.

Oh, and female mantises don’t eat the male’s head in the wild.

Lizzie
Lizzie
1 year ago

Clover’s feet sticking out from under the bookcase do seem pretty relaxed.

Rabid Rabbit
Rabid Rabbit
1 year ago

@Bookworm,

You knew this was coming: dare I ask what that book is? I’d love to read it.