By David Futrelle
There’s a little bit of drama going on in the Am I the Asshole subreddit, where Redditors who suspect that they might just possibly have behaved a teensy bit improperly (but probably not) go to tell their stories and get a ruling on their asshole status from their peers.
Yesterday, a fellow calling himself TheCrocDude reported in with this leading question: “AITA [Am I The Asshole] for wearing “crocs” to work? (Serious, I may have just been denied a promotion)”
It was pretty clear from the outset that he expected Redditors to weigh in on his side.
Huh. That was a pretty quick jump from “I didn’t get the promotion because I dress like a slob” to “maybe I’m being oppressed as a man!”
First, as many people pointed out, Crocs — while tacky — may be perfectly appropriate office wear in a casual office, especially for someone who works out of sight of the public, or for some non-office jobs that require people to be on their feet all day. (In my exceedingly casual home office, where my only work colleagues are cats, I’m barefoot most of the time, and so are they.) But people in management at tech companies are generally expected to not wear giant cartoon rubber shoes.
And, no, CrocDude, the woman who got promoted over you would not have been able to get away with Crocs because she’s a woman. There’s no such thing as a “Croc Pass” that applies only to the ladies.
But the petulance of CrocDude’s post — I’m not going to call him by his real name, as he is an embarrassment to all Davids — and his belief that he was somehow discriminated against in his tech job for being a man suggest that the Crocs are really only the symptom of his unpromotability problem, not the cause.
And his other comments in the thread more than confirm this judgement. For, in the least surprising development since my cats starting to pester me for dinner an hour before it’s usually served, it turns out that CrocDude kind of a creepy misogynistic douchebag
When one Redditor asked him how exactly “wearing goofy footwear relate[s] to gender bias,” CrocDude offered this, er, observation:
Dude you can see she wears thong panties under her dresses, that’s unprofessional
Wait, what? Maybe she’s the one who should be going to HR, not you.
When another Redditor wondered why exactly he was monitoring his co-worker’s ass at work, he responded “Why are they looking at my feet?”
I dunno, dude, maybe because you’re wearing giant neon-colored clown shoes?
And then there was the whole George R. R Martin question. In response to a question from another Redditor that’s since been deleted — presumably for being offensive — Mr. Croc complained that his office rival is
the “quirky hot girl” who claims to love GoT but couldn’t identify GRRM in a police line up.
That’s right. He apparently thinks she shouldn’t get the promotion because he’s convinced himself that she’s a FAKE NERD in addition to being a thong-wearer.
Jeez, dude, you’re making Croc wearers look bad.
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“Give me a break from having to offer any explanations”
I’m going to read between the lines here. I think Croc-David’s manager is annoyed because they’ve discussed his professionalism before, perhaps at his regular review. He provides remote support to customers, probably involving a lot of electronic communication and/or phone calls. There’s a lot of scope there for someone to fall short of expectations, regardless of their level of technical knowledge.
When I respond to a customer ticket, I pay careful attention to spelling and punctuation, because mistakes make us look bad. Look at this guy’s writing, though: “dont”, “annoucements”, “kids shoes”, missing commas…
If he’s this sloppy when dealing with customers, while his feeemale colleague doesn’t make such mistakes, she may be the right choice for the promotion.
I was wondering if he’s deliberately trying to draw a parallel to those cases where a black man is denied entry to a bar because he has “wrong kind of shoes”.
My first thought was reminiscing when I was in college and didn’t know if I should explain to that girl that white undies under a too thin black skirt look ridiculous from behind. But then, if it’s a thong you just wouldn’t see it, because that’s the point of wearing undies as minimal as possible.
So I take the “creepy upskirt” card for 100$ instead. Either he took an upskirt, which should get him fired and not just barred from promotion, or his imagination leave to him fantasizing too much on coworker, and that’s disrupting at the very best.
@Dalillama:
And he often wears one of those Greek fisherman’s caps.
Maybe CrocsDude *didn’t* see any visible pantylines, and that’s why he figures she’s wearing a thong? In which case, she’s in a no-win situation as far as he’s concerned.
Even in a casual office setting, crocs are not typically considered appropriate. Even if something that casual is allowed, if you want a promotion, you’re going to have to demonstrate that you go beyond the bare minimum of what it takes not to be fired. That includes “dressing for the job you want, not the job you have.”
I do perspnally think corporate culture puts way too much emphasis on appearance and dress and that results in a lot of gatekeeping that puts people who are white, thin and can afford to shop at an unfair advantage. But Crocs aren’t cheap, so this guy can probably afford to give himself a more professional makeover.
There’s an entire store devoted to Crocs at the Mall of America and that never fails to crack me up when I pass it.
Yeah, right, and all that shit, but let’s cut to the chase…. HE didn’t get the promotion; SHE did.
How much more evidence do we need to SEE to see anti-male bias?!?!?!?
The trials and tribulations of Crocs (the company) are pretty interesting if you’re into finance and business stuff.
https://money.cnn.com/2018/08/09/news/companies/crocs-clogs-sandals/index.html
If you check out your co-workers for VPL, and think that that’s something you should talk about, chances are good that you show up on the creepdar of every woman in the office. That won’t necessarily harm your promotion prospects, but it’s not a great look.
@Moggie : and the fact it don’t necessarilly harm the promotion prospect is realistic but pretty fucked up …
“…you wear fucking kids shoes every day” sounds like shorthand for generally immature behavior. His manager probably felt put on the spot and used the Crocs as a concrete symbol for his lack of professionalism.
“Give me a break from having to offer any explanations” sounds like either his manager doesn’t trust him to handle criticism gracefully, or his manager has already had many painful conversations with him about his behavior and has gotten tired of trying to wade through the dense misogyny, blame shifting, and entitlement. Either way, it suggests he doesn’t have a mature attitude about taking responsibility for his own growth. Why, then, would he be ready to take on a position with more responsibilities?
“neck and neck with me on every aspect or customer and technical knowledge”: Just because an employee has stellar technical knowledge, that doesn’t automatically mean they have the organizational and people skills to be a manager (assuming the promotion was for some kind of supervisory position). Most of the managers at my workplace don’t know a whole lot about the nitty-gritty of our code, but they’re excellent at making sure deadlines get met, problems get solved, projects have the right resources, and people are generally happy with their assignments and their team. Big picture thinking is needed, not focusing on your individual success and what kind of underwear your co-workers are wearing or whether they can pick GRRM out of a lineup.
I’m sure he’d love to blame the Crocs. Shoes are much easier to change than the personality flaws that are holding him back.
His speculating about her underwear sets off my creep meter, and since no one sees your knickers why would what you wear be classified as professional or unprofessional? On the other hand, shoes are way more visible. I’ve worked in few offices, all with no face to face customer contact, (the environment messes with my sensory issues and causes autistic overwhelm, too much for me to be comfortable) and on a dress down day I might have worn jeans and trainers but flip flops or crocs would be out of the question. Maybe a nice pair of leather-ish sandals.
Wrong as it is that someone is judged by their appearance, it happens and you should know that if you want a promotion you need to act and dress like management, so they can see you’re ‘one of them’. People are tribal like that. You have to do silly stuff like dress the same, go to drinks nights, gossip on breaks, etc. to be seen as fitting in.
It’s remarkable how much oppression can be tucked into even a minimalist-seeming dress code.
The bulk of this exists to give them license to police women’s clothing and/or bodies. Ten’ll get you one. “Distraction” in the context of workplace (or school) clothing is usually misogynistic coded language.
Translation: “oozed money”. Expecting people to wear outfits that cost a month of their salary to buy is, obviously, class oppression, and rewards with promotions the people who need them the least. But then of course that’s the neoliberal way, isn’t it? Giving things to the people who need them the least and denying things to the people who need them the most?
So we have classism and misogyny all rolled up into 16 words here.
Troubelle, What particular tune would you suggest singing your musical piece to?
So much Crocs hate.
Crocs come in lots of styles nowadays, so folks may be wearing them to work with no one the wiser.
But none are as comfy as the clogs. Years ago, I found a Crocs clog style (in black) with a closed back to wear to my retail job (that didn’t allow any open-backed shoes) and they were SO great for my plantar fasciitis! But they weren’t stylish or cute and I did not care because I wasn’t in pain for my whole shift.
I have no problem with the crocs, it’s just literally all the other stuff.
I go barefoot or in flip-flops at the office (which is obviously pretty casual) and I’d still find fucking crocs inappropriate.
Crocs – worse than straight up wearing nothing.
Oh, and yeah, Crocdude sounds like an arse.
@Buttercup:
Treasure those managers, because good PM is rarer than it ought to be, in my experience.
@Penny Psmith
I’m pretty certain they were originally intended for medical use; they’re readily washable and sterilisable, and the originals didn’t have holes in (because the last thing you want in a hospital is fluids getting in) and were a boring sensible colour. The other versions were added afterwards in a search for more money. The soles, notably, aren’t very grippy and that’s a bad thing anywhere you might want to be climbing on wet rock or slippy mud.
They’ve since made some things which are better for whitewater stuff… there is (or at least was) an “all terrain” variant with chunkier, grippier soles, for example. They make a nice canoeing shoe, but I’d want something that holds on to my feet a bit better if I were doing exciting rafting.
So basically this guy is Wally from Dilbert, with his myriad hygiene issues.
For what it’s worth, Crocs (closed toed ones) also make excellent kitchen shoes. They’re non-slip, lightweight, easy to stand in all day, and (as has been said) very easy to wash.
Before Crocs, and while I was still working in kitchens, my go to kitchen shoe was nurse’s shoes, because they had the same virtues listed above; so it doesn’t surprise me at all that nurses have adopted Crocs as well.
Good PMs are worth their weight in platinum.
I go barefoot or wear ballerina-style slippers in the office … but I telecommute. So nobody cares that I’m also wearing a t-shirt that says “Nevertheless, she regenerated” with a TARDIS replacing the “a.”
If I were working in an office where other people could see me, I’d wear lace-up boots and a different shirt.
Crocs are great for gardening. A lot of kids at my sons’ preschool wore them as their indoor shoes. They worked well because they were lightweight, easy to put on, easy to wash, and available in every color of the rainbow. Some kids liked to collect the pins that went in the holes.
Dressing in clean, appropriate attire (as your budget allows) shows respect for your workplace and your job. It sends a signal that you play well with others. If you’re observant and adaptable enough to fit in with the prevailing dress code, chances are you’ll listen well to customers and be responsive to their needs.
On the other hand, if you dress for the beach, then your attire gives off the message “I’d rather be there than here doing my job.” (Unless the beach is your workplace, then it would be inappropriate to show up in khakis and a buttondown).
As Greebos said, there’s a little bit of a tribal element to it. Even if you think the game of getting the position you want is stupid and anti-Croc, you still have to take it seriously if you want to play it. Promotions and women don’t fall in your lap just because you show up and male.
@Amtep:
Ex-flipping-zactly. If a rival for promotion is “neck and neck” with you on every substantive qualification, then you have at best a 50% chance of getting the promotion. You don’t get to whine about being ranked second based on comparatively trivial differences if you didn’t manage to outperform your competitor on any of the more important considerations.
And yup, it’s dollars to donuts that this un-promoted grouser would not be complaining about having been “passed over” if his more successful co-worker who “presented a much more professional image” had been male instead of female.
@WWTH:
Oh sure, they say that! But then I turn up dressed as Ming the Merciless, and suddenly I’m a “disruptive influence” and “frightening our stakeholders”!
Tbh, if I were a manager, I’d fire somebody for wearing crocs