By David Futrelle
Incels have rather, er, romanticized ideas about sexual abuse. They’re so fixated on the idea that having sex will fix all of their problems that they sometimes fantasize publicly about how great it would have been if their mothers, or sisters, or cousins had molested them when they were young. And sometimes they even get angry that they weren’t abused.
Take, for example, this lovely Incels.co poster, who seems to think that the root of all of his problems is that his then-17-year-old cousin refused to have sex with him when he was a lad of 13. Which would not only have been a violation of the incest taboo, but rape.
![[Serious] My cousin was selfish for not helping me escape inceldom
Mar 30, 2019
wizardcel
Lolicon and proud
Messages 1,923
Mar 30, 2019
She never did anything to help me. She never let me fuck her. I was 13 years old when I first met her at my grandmother's place; she was 4 years my senior. My mom had forced me to spend two weeks at my grandmother's place with my cousins. I was miserable the whole time because I had wasted a lot of time chasing after my cousin. I must have tried everything to get into her pants. I even asked her to let me do it. But she threatened to tell everything to my mom, and I was forced to apologize.
She didn't have sex with me because I'm ugly. It wouldn't have hurt her to help me. I would have gained a confidence boost, and my life would have been a lot different. Your family was supposed to be there for you. Your female cousins are the ones who should teach you how to kiss and have sex.
She's 34 now. I don't want her anymore, anyway. She's overweight and has a downie child. I kind of envy her husband though. They met each other when she was still in her 20s; when she was still hot. He must have enjoyed fucking her while I had to content myself with masturbation.
I like to imagine that her retarded child is mine. I've masturbated so much while thinking of her that I managed to miraculously impregnate her. Lol it's just a silly fantasy though.](https://i2.wp.com/www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/2019-06-08_9-20-38.png?fit=461%2C1024)
This post was so appalling that it ended up getting reposted on the Incel Tears subreddit, a hangout for people to share the horrifying things they find on assorted incel forums.
Naturally, the regulars on Incels.co discovered that this post had made it to Incel Tears, and one of them complained that the people there “never show our reaction. They obviously love cherrypicking us to push a false narrative.”
So let me remedy that.
Yes, there were a number of Incels.co commenters who were repulsed by the idea of someone having sex with their cousin. Like, for example, this person:
But I would be remiss if I didn’t also post some of the other responses.
Wizardcel’s response to this: “I regret not having raped her.”
Oh, but there’s more:
And then there was this weird racist response:
I should point out that none of the commenters — whether pro or con on the incest question — seemed to have noticed, much less cared, that Mr. Wizardcel was also glorifying the sexual abuse of a 13-year-old.
For incels, it seems, sex is sex — and sexual abuse is also sex.
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Wrt 1/2 + 7.
In my early youth the people spouting this nonsense were making the point that men should look for women no younger than 1/2 their age, and no older than 1/2 + 7.
I’m glad it’s morphed a bit. I’m still queasy any time I see calculating ideal ages on the basis of 1/2.
@Mrs Morley
Holy wow, that’s disgusting.
@Dormousing_it:
Not sure if serious…
Crushes are a normal part of puberty, and yes, they’re often about an older person, because the kid admires maturity. You didn’t encourage it, or exploit the situation, so it’s unlikely to have had any lasting effect. At worst, he’ll have felt some embarrassment for a while (“what was I thinking? I hope she didn’t realise!”)
I remember having a huge crush on one of my teachers. I didn’t act on it in any way, and I soon grew out of it, after which I couldn’t understand why I had felt that way. But it didn’t harm me.
@Mrs Morley
Wow, that is creepy. To think that 1/2 +7 used to be a ceiling…
@kupo @KindaSortaHarmless: well, yeah. As I said, I’m still queasy that anyone would start their calculation with what’s half my age?
@Mrs Morley
Half my age would be an adult who could give full consent and it still squicks me out to think about. Actually half my age plus 7 is still too young for me.
I feel like the “half age plus seven” thing really only works if the person doing the math is in their 20s. Even at 30, you end up with 22, which already starts to get a little odd. The older you get, the more the gap widens. At 40, you get 27. At 50, you get 32. Of course, none of this is automatically bad, but I still think a lot of these numbers are kinda suspect.
@Talonknife – yeah, it breaks down badly when you start getting towards the 3 score and 10 end of life.
Always figured for 50+ you simplify it to just the 7. 50 and 43 isn’t creepy. 60 and 53 isn’t creepy. 70 and 63 is creepy to those who have a problem with old people having lives, but screw them.
@Talonknife
I was thinking something similar. I’d forgotten about the 1/2+7 and did the math for my age. That would be a partner of 23, 10 years younger than myself.
Not inherently wrong, but thinking back to my own early 20’s and it seems like a lifetime ago.
@kupo
If you are referring to this thread, BTGG did eventually give a short apology.
However, since they never even tried honestly answering my questions and was only willing to stop accusing me of being an evil puritan after I’d already said the same thing over and over again, I’m not sure I’m willing to give them the benefit of a doubt yet.
Ans as for the statutory rape part, in my homeland the age of consent is 15, but it’s a big damn difference between a 15 year old sleeping with someone their age and a 13 year old trying to force a 17 year old to sleep with them.
I think if both people are over ~25 years and under ~65 years, then it can potentially be non creepy, personality allowing, even if there is a big age gap.
That being said, the problem of thoses age rules is that, actually, the maturity of a person and the healthiness of the relation isn’t terribly correlated with their physical age. There’s additional red flags to look for, like if one of the party is dependant of the other, or if someone get a lot of material advantage from the relation, and there could be more. Thoses formulaes are more of a way to get an easy to explain red flag and can’t really replace actually knowing the situation.
Also, re-reading the article, the behavior Wizardcel say he had at 13 years look *mightily* unhealthy even for a 13y old. He probably exagerate and deform his memory to make them fit with his current ideology, but if I was aware of a children behaving like that I would probably try to get him psychological help.
But hey, who cares about being there for her and not effing up her mental and emotional without a care like that messed up BS is bound to do to a person.
It’s no wonder someone that sick is an incel. And should stay that way.
I saw, but it doesn’t change that the initial statement they made was misogynistic af. Plus the apology was a not-pology (it didn’t contain any of the criteria of an actual apology) and as you noted it was WAY too late.
@kupo
Indeed, it felt as much of a real apology as this scene in Wanted, but with even less effort.
If BTGG is reading this, half a sentence of a generic apologizing does NOT make up for personal insults and days of willfully ignoring and misinterpreting every one of my previous replies in order to keep tearing down strawman versions of things I’ve never even said.
@Moggie:
Well, I was maybe 15% serious. I did chat with him, often about comic books, and give him cookies. On my side, it was a matter of “What a cute kid!”
He knew I had a boyfriend.
I wonder how he turned out. He’d be in his forties now.
@wwth
Use it as much as you’d like.
@BTGG
Ok, so why is it different if the boy stays the same age, but the girl suddenly has her age upped to 17 and there are no kids involved? How is he suddenly more mature and able to handle that, when it’s royally fucked up if the girl is 12? He didn’t change. Why are you ok with it now?
So that I could ask the question above to BTGG. I am sorry if I should have put a warning on it, I am not very good at picking up on that sort of thing. I apologise for upsetting anyone.
@scanisaurus
Yeah I didn’t like how they were talking to you. The apologise seemed half ass and not good enough for basically just calling you ugly and jealous of pretty women. I’d be side eyeing them for a while now.
With regards to the dating age I think a better guideline is within + or – 15% of your age.
“She never did anything to help me”? Dude, letting you commit incest with her isn’t “helping”. The kindest thing she could have done was to refuse. Which she did.
You want help with your inceldom? Go see a psychiatrist. Seriously. Nobody in their right mind gains a confidence boost from incest, particularly if you pestered her before she gave in (which she was right not to do).
And I don’t give a rat’s nutsack what you look like. This kind of behavior is so unpardonably creepy that it’s a good indicator of the kind of personality most people wouldn’t touch with three pairs of gloves on. Again, she was right to say no to that.
I hope she’s also not letting you anywhere near her kid, because you clearly can’t be trusted not to sexually abuse anyone. Especially with that sick masturbatory fantasy.
I guess what I’m trying to say here is, SHE WAS RIGHT NOT TO LET YOU HAVE YOUR WAY, BECAUSE YOU FUCKING NEED THERAPY, YOU FUCKING MONSTER.
I never dated in my teens.
When I was in my 20s, my dating standards were “just be legal and younger than my parents”.
When I was in my 30s, my standards were “25-50”.
Now that I’m in my 40s, my standards are “current age ±10”.
Not that this has mattered much, the largest age gap I’ve had was me: 41, him: 33 (8 years) and that barely lasted. Everyone else has been 2 years younger through 4½ years older.
When I was a sex worker, I was intimately involved with people all over the age spectrum, but I wouldn’t call that “dating”.
*vomits*
DID HE REALLY SAY HE ASKED HER
I think you were the one harassing her, actually mate
Also, speaking as someone who WAS molested, I wouldn’t recommend it. It doesn’t bear any relation to anything normal people understand as “sex”, but then I can’t imagine your ideas about sex are entirely above board
Incel ideas about sex:
• Incel emits pheromones, grows muscles, becomes CHAD
• Women fly towards incel as if drawn by magnets
• Penis goes in woman, by any means possible (nothing else counts as sex)
• Following ejaculation, which will obviously be full of rainbows or something, incel DNA travels into woman’s brain, to join the DNA of all the other men she has ever had sex with (a MRA actually told me this happens once and I fell about laughing which I don’t think is the reaction he was hoping for)
• ????????
• MAGICAL TRANSFORMATION OF INCEL’S LIFE, CAN FLY, GAINS SUPERPOWERS
To be fair it would actually be quite cool if my vagina could bestow superpowers
I always thought that it counted for both parties, but I have only used it once: “Your are 3 years older than your partner, that is not weird.” (It was the woman who was older, the younger partner was mid-20s when the relationship started)
Big Titty Demon:
Okay, thanks for responding. I am freely admitting that the topic is very difficult for me, probably because we had a few cases like this in the newspaper and I have relatives that are in that agegroup we are talking about.
Well first off, there is a world of difference between age 12 and age 17 when it comes to physical, mental, and sexual maturity.
The underlying motivation behind statutory rape laws(as well as criminalizing sex between 2 underage persons)is to prevent(or at least drastically reduce) teenage pregnancy and make it easy to prosecute rapists who victimize underage persons.
I don’t entirely agree with this “one size fits all” approach to morality. It depends on the specific situation and the individual parties involved(unless one party clearly did not want it whatsoever). Adults prefer to assume that underage kids have no will of their own even though this is patently untrue.
Moreover, riddle me this: Suppose a 14 year old boy sexually assaults a 19 year old woman. She goes to the police and tries to press charges, but the boy then claims that he is the real victim and she came onto him. Because he is underage and due to statutory rape laws the law very well could presume that he is the victim and she would end up getting charged with statutory rape! What mechanisms are in place to prevent this from happening?
Why would the 19 year old be charged with statutory rape when she didn’t consent and therefore didn’t commit a crime.