By David Futrelle
Incels have rather, er, romanticized ideas about sexual abuse. They’re so fixated on the idea that having sex will fix all of their problems that they sometimes fantasize publicly about how great it would have been if their mothers, or sisters, or cousins had molested them when they were young. And sometimes they even get angry that they weren’t abused.
Take, for example, this lovely Incels.co poster, who seems to think that the root of all of his problems is that his then-17-year-old cousin refused to have sex with him when he was a lad of 13. Which would not only have been a violation of the incest taboo, but rape.
![[Serious] My cousin was selfish for not helping me escape inceldom
Mar 30, 2019
wizardcel
Lolicon and proud
Messages 1,923
Mar 30, 2019
She never did anything to help me. She never let me fuck her. I was 13 years old when I first met her at my grandmother's place; she was 4 years my senior. My mom had forced me to spend two weeks at my grandmother's place with my cousins. I was miserable the whole time because I had wasted a lot of time chasing after my cousin. I must have tried everything to get into her pants. I even asked her to let me do it. But she threatened to tell everything to my mom, and I was forced to apologize.
She didn't have sex with me because I'm ugly. It wouldn't have hurt her to help me. I would have gained a confidence boost, and my life would have been a lot different. Your family was supposed to be there for you. Your female cousins are the ones who should teach you how to kiss and have sex.
She's 34 now. I don't want her anymore, anyway. She's overweight and has a downie child. I kind of envy her husband though. They met each other when she was still in her 20s; when she was still hot. He must have enjoyed fucking her while I had to content myself with masturbation.
I like to imagine that her retarded child is mine. I've masturbated so much while thinking of her that I managed to miraculously impregnate her. Lol it's just a silly fantasy though.](https://i2.wp.com/www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/2019-06-08_9-20-38.png?fit=461%2C1024)
This post was so appalling that it ended up getting reposted on the Incel Tears subreddit, a hangout for people to share the horrifying things they find on assorted incel forums.
Naturally, the regulars on Incels.co discovered that this post had made it to Incel Tears, and one of them complained that the people there “never show our reaction. They obviously love cherrypicking us to push a false narrative.”
So let me remedy that.
Yes, there were a number of Incels.co commenters who were repulsed by the idea of someone having sex with their cousin. Like, for example, this person:
But I would be remiss if I didn’t also post some of the other responses.
Wizardcel’s response to this: “I regret not having raped her.”
Oh, but there’s more:
And then there was this weird racist response:
I should point out that none of the commenters — whether pro or con on the incest question — seemed to have noticed, much less cared, that Mr. Wizardcel was also glorifying the sexual abuse of a 13-year-old.
For incels, it seems, sex is sex — and sexual abuse is also sex.
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Uh…raping a 13yo is abuse.
He isn’t just bitter he wasn’t raped.
He’s confessing he was sexually harassing her.
No wonder she didn’t want to have anything to do with him.
Rape is unwanted sexual intercourse that is imposed on someone against their will. Now I know that there is statutory rape but his cousin was also under age 18. So it is a contradiction to say that someone is bitter they weren’t raped. If they were willing to have sex and clearly wanted it as is the case here, it would not be rape(or even statutory rape).
@BTGG
IANAL, but my understanding is that when a person under the age of consent is involved, “willing” is irrelevant: legally, they cannot give consent, therefore any sexual activity involving them is statutory rape.
Yeah, a 13 year old is not capable of informed consent. So even if they want to have sex with the older person, it’s still rape.
Off topic, I just updated my blog for the first time in months. So if anyone here actually reads it, or wants to, click on my name.
For newer folks, I drink alcohol and recap/lovingly snark on chapters of A Song of Ice and Fire. AKA the Game of Thrones books.
I come a Catholic-ish extended family and thus have many female cousins. What I read here was beyond disgusting.
Yay for updates! Missed them.
You read the Farseer trilogy?
Rape is non-consensual sexual contact. That includes people who are unable to consent, such as 13-year-olds. And do you seriously not think it’s abusive to perform sexual acts with someone that young? Holy shit.
@BTGG
Let me tell you a true story. At hospital in the USA, a 13 year old boy walks in to an urgent care. He requests a vasectomy, because he and his girlfriend already have enough children. The girlfriend is 12 and has 2 children.
Is this ok? Are those children consenting? Does the 12 year old girl, who at the oldest would have been pregnant at 10, have the knowledge to make an informed choice about having children of her own? What should be done in a situation like this? Who is responsible? Who, if anyone, should be punished?
I was not expecting the comment section of WHTM to be a place where I found someone defending the stance that 13-year-olds are capable of granting consent to sexual activities, and that perpetrators of statutory rape cannot be people under the age of 18.
I’m not exactly jazzed about this.
Out of morbid curiosity BTGG, what age cut-off do you have for children to be able to give consent? If, say, a seven-year-old “wanted” to have sex with a seventeen year old, would that be both legally and ethically permissible in your opinion?
Cope Til You Rope from the same thread says this:
Sure. Refraining from raping children is a fad, just like mood rings and troll dolls and pet rocks.
And social justice warriors think they’re the good guys? Don’t make me laugh. The term “social justice” alone gives away the fact that they’re bad, bad, bad people.
Of all things to believe in he chose this.
Crawls away in Aro
I’m gonna have to steal that line. Because it’s how I feel every damn time a screenshot from r/relationships or r/AITA comes up in my Twitter feed.
So am I the only person here who lost their virginity before age 18? Most of my friends did as well. IANAL either but I grew up thinking it was not SR if both people are underage. But if I were to draw a firm line I’d say that if you’re not even a teenager you have no business having sex. A 17 year old having sex with a 7 year old is a pedophile FFS. Since 7 is prepubescent.
@BTD: That sitch is royally fucked up. Those kids have no business having kids at such a young and stories like that are why we need sex education.
Someone about 7 years into puberty knows a lot more then someone only 3 years into puberty. possibly only 2 years since boys start puberty a bit later then girls do. You gonna tell me that sound equal? you gonna tell me that wouldn’t be showing any red flags at all? What if she was 1 week before her 18 birthday when all of this was going on? still makes it okay and not sexual abuse? you really need to think before you speak buddy.
What is going on here?
Sorry that gets unconfortable here:
To get that back on track:
1. Under 14 year olds can not consent, they are kids, can we end the rape or not point end here, on this point. Who ever does somethink sexual with children is a monster. END OF DISCUSION!!!!
2. @Big Titty Demon:
First of why post that??? First criminal part, in my homecountry, the boy and the girl are both to young to be persecuted. (yes both are to young to consent and to young to know that they did somethink wrong)
Adults who let all of that happen, could be a case there. (A 10-year old has a kid and no one does somethink to get them away from each other?)
WtF, WtF, WtF, WtF
I cannot even begin to can.
/me reset the counter “Day since last time incels outdid themselves in being abhorrent and repulsive human” to 0.
Maybe one day that counter will have two digits, but I fear that by that time they will be complaining that the health service require them to kill people before eating their visceras.
I’m not shocked by the cousin part of this. As I understand it, having kids with your cousin isn’t so very risky. But there are cultures where marrying your cousin is the norm (it keeps the inheritance in the family) and the family tree looks like a poplar rather than an oak.
if nobody marries a relative, then you have 2 parents, 4 grandparents, 8 great-grandparents, 16 great-greats.
If you marry your cousin then the kids have 2 parents, 4 grandparents, 6 great-grandparents, 12 great-greats.
If everyone marries a cousin, then I make it 2 parents, 4 grandparents, 4 great-grandparents, 4 great-greats.
A 13 year old failing to see his cousin as a human with her own wants, needs and preferences is sadly not so very shocking. This is way past the average self-centeredness for a 13 year old.
What does shock me about this is that he’s now 30 and STILL thinks this way.
Many jurisdictions have what are sometimes called “Romeo and Juliet laws” – basically, laws stating that no offence (or a lesser offence) took place if both partners were within X years of each other in age. And I’ve never known any such law that would consider 13 and 17 to be a sufficiently narrow gap.
His cousin did not do him because:
– she is not a paediphile
– he is family
– he is just not her type
– he creeped her out
In High School we called 17-year-old guys who as much as looked at 13 or 14 year-olds “paedophiles”. Dating let alone having sex with much younger kids was not acceptable where I lived in the 90s. Incels have sqewed values.
On the stat rape question, minors can be charged and convicted of stat rape if there’s a large enough age gap, usually something like 3-4 years. 13 and 17 would almost certainly qualify. Otherwise, most laws contain a close-in-age exemption to allow for teenage sexual experimentation with peers, which is to be expected to some degree or another in every population.
In Canada, for what it’s worth, a 13 year old cannot legally consent to sex with a 17 year old. However, a 14 year old can consent to sex with a 19 year old (with certain caveats).
So, simply b/c something in jurisdiction X is or is not stat. rape doesn’t determine for me wether I think the act is potentially problematic.
The general rule (not talking law, here) is age / 2 + 7 for whether it’s fucking creepy, so the most a 17yo should be considering without verging into creep territory is 15 1/2. But even still, 13 is WAY too young. Have you ever met a 13yo? They are neither physically nor mentally mature enough for sex and the potential consequences. 13yos are still developing physically. Just because he thinks he wants it doesn’t mean he actually understands it or his body or his emotions well enough to consent. And if he’s in the US the chances are pretty high he was never taught a damn thing about it. Hell, even when I went to school they didn’t teach some of the really important information (like details about consent and STDs) until high school. This kid was in middle school still.
@Catalpa
If it’s any consolation, BTGG was being a huge misogynist in another thread. I have a feeling they’re part of the manosphere trying to get us to agree to something gross for the screencaps. Either that or they’re just generally a terrible person.
No, but a 13-year-old having sex with another 13-year-old is significantly different to a 17-year-old taking advantage of a 13-year-old.
In most jurisdictions, underage tends can still be guilty of statutory rape for a large enough age gap.
As talonknife mentioned above, Romeo and Juliet clauses in statutory rape laws generally allow for two or so year age gaps, not four.
Beyond that, legal =/= ethically acceptable. See kupo’s post about the general age ratio creepiness rule.
So, a “willing” 12 year old would be able to be sexually abused by a 17 year old, since 12 doesn’t have ‘teen’ in it?
Or do you mean ‘teenager’ as in ‘currently experiencing puberty’? Because, uh, ‘old enough to bleed, old enough to breed’ is not a great standard to measure a child’s capacity to grant sexual consent.
Puberty can start as early as 9. So yeah, puberty is not a good way to determine ability to consent. It makes me absolutely sick that in Alabama, if the abortion ban is upheld by the courts, a child who has been raped and becomes pregnant will not be able to get an abortion, but their rapist will be able to sue the victim for custody once the baby is born