By David Futrelle
Incels have rather, er, romanticized ideas about sexual abuse. They’re so fixated on the idea that having sex will fix all of their problems that they sometimes fantasize publicly about how great it would have been if their mothers, or sisters, or cousins had molested them when they were young. And sometimes they even get angry that they weren’t abused.
Take, for example, this lovely Incels.co poster, who seems to think that the root of all of his problems is that his then-17-year-old cousin refused to have sex with him when he was a lad of 13. Which would not only have been a violation of the incest taboo, but rape.
![[Serious] My cousin was selfish for not helping me escape inceldom
Mar 30, 2019
wizardcel
Lolicon and proud
Messages 1,923
Mar 30, 2019
She never did anything to help me. She never let me fuck her. I was 13 years old when I first met her at my grandmother's place; she was 4 years my senior. My mom had forced me to spend two weeks at my grandmother's place with my cousins. I was miserable the whole time because I had wasted a lot of time chasing after my cousin. I must have tried everything to get into her pants. I even asked her to let me do it. But she threatened to tell everything to my mom, and I was forced to apologize.
She didn't have sex with me because I'm ugly. It wouldn't have hurt her to help me. I would have gained a confidence boost, and my life would have been a lot different. Your family was supposed to be there for you. Your female cousins are the ones who should teach you how to kiss and have sex.
She's 34 now. I don't want her anymore, anyway. She's overweight and has a downie child. I kind of envy her husband though. They met each other when she was still in her 20s; when she was still hot. He must have enjoyed fucking her while I had to content myself with masturbation.
I like to imagine that her retarded child is mine. I've masturbated so much while thinking of her that I managed to miraculously impregnate her. Lol it's just a silly fantasy though.](https://i2.wp.com/www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/2019-06-08_9-20-38.png?fit=461%2C1024)
This post was so appalling that it ended up getting reposted on the Incel Tears subreddit, a hangout for people to share the horrifying things they find on assorted incel forums.
Naturally, the regulars on Incels.co discovered that this post had made it to Incel Tears, and one of them complained that the people there “never show our reaction. They obviously love cherrypicking us to push a false narrative.”
So let me remedy that.
Yes, there were a number of Incels.co commenters who were repulsed by the idea of someone having sex with their cousin. Like, for example, this person:
But I would be remiss if I didn’t also post some of the other responses.
Wizardcel’s response to this: “I regret not having raped her.”
Oh, but there’s more:
And then there was this weird racist response:
I should point out that none of the commenters — whether pro or con on the incest question — seemed to have noticed, much less cared, that Mr. Wizardcel was also glorifying the sexual abuse of a 13-year-old.
For incels, it seems, sex is sex — and sexual abuse is also sex.
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And why would she go to the police if she came onto him. Your not any making a bit of since. If anything your trying to make a gotcha
Your basically falling into the trap of
“Because women love to lie and fasly accuse so of course she would go to the police if they had sex” bullshit.
[Citation needed]
And…seriously? You can’t see how a 17yo having sex with a 13yo, even if the 13yo initiated, is abusive? This is really the hill you want to die on? You’re fucking disgusting.
@BTGG
That’s nice. However, you have (on purpose?) mistaken my question in this case. I did not ask about the girl. I asked you, why is it ok for the 13-year-old boy when the girl is 17, but it’s “royally fucked up” when she is 12?
I for one is not the least bit surprised that BTGG has kept ignoring all the complaints and people calling them out on their half-assed non-excuse in the previous thread, and now keep digging themself further into the hole of misogynist-assumptions and strawmen.
BTGG, you are literally sounding exactly like one of those cliched movie-villains holding a monologue trying to justify their evil acts. Seriously, if we randomly decide that morality doesn’t apply to some people, who gets to decide which persons or situations it applies to? The state? The local clergy? You?
And you still haven’t answered my questions here or even attempted to try a proper apology for what you wrote about me.
I feel bad for this poor woman. She was sexually harrassed by her own cousin when she was 17. I hope she has a happy life now.
@weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
W-wait., what?! Is this real?! D:
Valkyrine,
All too real. He used to go by Government Gets Girlfriends. He goes by a different name now, but I forgot it.
He also once admitted to extorting a woman to coerce into her sex.
A real gem.
Maybe I’m a little sensitive, but I’m uncomfortable with the amount of age-gap shaming I see here. As long as everyone involved is an adult, consenting, and on relatively equal footing, I don’t see a problem with relationships that feature a significant age gap.
I met my partner at a time when we were both recovering from personal traumas. My partner had survived a murder attempt and was still dealing with the resultant depression and PTSD, while I was coming to terms with the trauma of my previous partner of 15+ years suddenly abandoning our marriage with no notice, discussion, or attempts at counseling. We were both part of the other’s support network and over time, we fell in love. Due to a variety of circumstances, we weren’t able to explore these feelings for some time, but eventually we started dating and later married.
I’m 49 years old. My partner is 32. I don’t see anything at all creepy about our relationship and I’m honestly a little surprised at the closemindedness of some of the comments here, since I’ve always considered the WHTM community to be a very accepting and positive one.
I hope it goes without saying that the 13 year old hitting up their 17 year old cousin for sex is abhorrent and disgusting.
@BTGG
Not true. They criminalize coercion.
Not true. Every parent knows kids have wills of their own, believe it. What they don’t have is the perquisite cognitive development to fully consider complex judgment calls, and that’s why they don’t sign contracts or make medical decisions.
The same as any other criminal report: forensic evidence.
@ Atropos Moirai
I hate to be ‘that guy’; but, by definition, all evidence is forensic. The technical term is ‘scientific evidence’; although even the people in the field often use the vernacular.
As to children making medical decisions etc, we have a concept here called “Gillick Competence”.
Basically for stuff like that, they judge everything on a case by case basis, depending on the level of understanding of the child.
[It’s named for Victoria Gillick; a woman who objected to her kids being prescribed contraceptives without her being informed.]
We still have a fixed age of consent though.
@Wandering Jewterus
I envy your username, it’s a beauty. <3
Clearly you are your partner are both adults, so I don't find it creepy. I agree that relationships should be based on consent between two adults, regardless of age. If we are being pedantic though, ceil(49/2+7)=32 though, so you would be all right by what other commenters have said as well. XD
I think the age gap leeriness comes from when it was acceptable only for men to be older and there was a socially accepted norm of predatory older males with teenage girls. It can be hard to step away from fighting to change that norm in an era with more choice and less coercion. And of course, it still hasn't become the norm for older women to be with younger men, so the fight continues.
It is a case by case basis though. I mean one of my great-grandfathers was 49 and married a 16 year old, which no one can convince me was a relationship of equals: that same age gap is the amount between Cheeto Benito and his wife, which no one bats an eye at.
For upper ends of the scale, I tend to go with, “if both partners were over thirty when the relationship started, they were presumably both adult enough to know their own minds and any age gap is their own business.”
I don’t think age gap relationships between consenting adults are inherently wrong. I do have a problem with people who make a habit out of chasing much younger partners specifically because of the age and power deferential. Like the Moby creeping on Natalie Portman and later Lana Del Rey story. There’s definitely a difference between that and two people of differing ages who happen to like/love each other.
Seconding the love for Wandering Jewterus’s name. It’s worthy of a Venture Bros. character.
@ Big Titty Demon
Awwww, thanks hon! Right back atcha! I always get a giggle when I see the Big Titty Demon weigh in on a subject. 🙂
And I agree, we should keep fighting to scuttle these archaic social “norms”. When I pull back from my own personal investment in this topic, I definitely see the need to push back against continuing to normalize the idea of older men coveting teenage girls (as opposed to fully grown women). I just wanted to ensure we weren’t use that brush to tar too broadly.
@ Moon_custafer
I think that’s an excellent guideline and wholeheartedly endorse the idea that people generally need to mind their own business.
@ Allandrel
High praise indeed! Thank you so much, Allandrel! As an avid Venture Bros. fan (Dr. Orpheus FTW!), I really appreciate the compliment!
“Moreover, riddle me this: Suppose a 14 year old boy sexually assaults a 19 year old woman. She goes to the police and tries to press charges, but the boy then claims that he is the real victim and she came onto him. Because he is underage and due to statutory rape laws the law very well could presume that he is the victim and she would end up getting charged with statutory rape! What mechanisms are in place to prevent this from happening?”
Am I the only one who now needs this to be a Law & Order episode?
Absolutely yes. What I meant to type was “forensic science,” but in my haste I erred. Thank you!
Definitely, you would have gotten a confidence boost and become a Chad. And it had to happen when you were 13. It’s way too late now. And it’s all your cousin’s fault.
Everyone knows that your family is supposed to be there for you when you want, need, have to have sex. That’s what a family is for — to provide you with sex. Especially if you’re ugly.
What I don’t understand is why she threatened to tell your mom. Is your mother not on board with the whole “your family is there to supply you with sex” thing? Weird.
He says that he’s mad at his cousin for not raping him… except for that fact that she didn’t want to have sex with him, so if anything had happened, it would actually have been him raping her. Yes, manosphere, even if the woman is at or above the age of consent, if a 13-year-old forces her to have sex, it’s still rape.
When I was 14, a modest tomboy (trans) asexual, older teens and grown men sexually harassed me and worse (thankfully I escaped THE worse but it still haunts me 3 decades later they tried). I have NO chill with “discussing” if children – 14 is a child, so is 15, 16… – can consent.
NONE.
“statutory” is like “date” as a modifier to rape, its trying to minimize it. We especially see this attitude w male victims, who are ALWAYS assumed consenting. It sickens, angers me. Beyond words.
Trying to say “oh but high school freshmen can fuck kids their own age sometimes” is BS, stop trying to lie to yourself.
A high schooler SENIOR have a relationship with a SEVENTH GRADER? Come ON. You dont actually believe thats ok, I refuse to accept you think that for real.