Categories
alpha males antifeminism beta males drama drama kings entitled babies internecine warfare irony alert men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny not a cult PUA red pill rollo tomassi

Rollo Coaster: A Red Pill guru gets dumped from a convention for “unbecoming conduct” and now all the alpha dudes are mad at each other

Rollo Tomassi, preaching the alpha male gospel in his favorite alpha male cap

By David Futrelle

There’s some high drama going on in a segment of the manosphere I generally ignore because I find it so tedious. Several days ago, you see, the head grifter behind a long-running series of manosphere conventions booted one of the scheduled speakers — “Red Pill” guru Rollo Tomassi — from all future events. And it’s not at all clear why.

“This removal was made for private conduct unbecoming of a 21 convention alumni speaker,” declared the organizer, Anthony Dream Johnson, in a long but distinctly uninformative statement. This unspecified conduct, he continued, was

irreconcilable in regard to his future involvement with the organization … Out of respect for my relationship with Rollo, I intend to keep the nature of this offense a private matter.

So we don’t know if the accused, say, sexually harassed someone — or if the two alpha males are just having some sort of alpha male slapfight behind the scenes. Most observers seem to think it’s probably the latter. One commenter in the Red Pill subreddit joked about some of the other possibilities:

The top 3 speculations are that he impersonated someone’s online identity, that he tried to conspire to make someone look bad, that he fed a down syndrome kid’s pet goldfish to an alligator.

But no one’s talking, at least not publicly, so the reasons for Johnson’s action remain as much of a mystery as why anyone, even the thirstiest incel schlub, would pay anywhere from $1500 to $2500 to go to one of his 21 Conventions to see a bunch of self-proclaimed alpha males regurgitate the same stale “wisdom” they serve up for free on their various YouTube channels.

For now, most of the people who care about this sort of manosphere drama seem to be siding with Tomassi, a longtime fixture in the community, over the mercurial Johnson. “This is like kicking out Van Halen from Van Halen,” one Redditor wrote.

In the several days since Tomassi’s dismissal, a number of others scheduled to give presentations at upcoming 21 Conferences have either quit or been kicked out, presumably for supporting Tomassi. And some who’ve bought tickets for the cons are demanding their money back.

Right now, it seems, everyone in this segment of the manosphere is mad at everyone else (or mad at everyone who’s mad). “21 Convention Founder Anthony Johnson aka @beachmuscles will now be referred to as ‘Red Pill Judas,'” a former 21 Convention participant known as Jon from Modern Life Dating declared on Twitter.

On YouTube, meanwhile, antifeminist videoblabber YogiOabsa declared that Tomassi — best known for his series of “Rational Male” books — was a “fragile male” who deserved to be “CANCELLED” by the Red Pill community.

In the Red Pill subreddit, both Tomassi and Johnson have their supporters — and their detractors. But most commenters there seem to regard the dispute between the two as so much “bitchy drama … like a bunch of chicks clacking ” in the words of one commenter.

Infamous Red Pill subreddit commenter and sometime troll GayLubeOil dismissed Johnson as a “shady asshole” — but reserved most of his venom for Rollo and some of his better-known supporters, whom he labeled “blue pill beta males.” These are fighting words, in Red Pill land.

“Beta males can only learn things the hard way,” he wrote,

because they are ego invested in not seeing the truth. Anthony Johnson is the real Red Pill alpha Master for exposing these deluded Bloopsters.

Also they don’t even lift.

Others heaped scorn on the pricey convention itself.

“Can’t even imagine the smell at these types of conventions,” wrote someone called zdenipeni. “Yuh.”

“They all sell some perfume or shampoo laced with special pheromones,” added Lucifyer, “they might accidentally seduce each other some day and it would be a sausage fest.”

I guess we’ll have to wait and see if the details of Tomassi’s alleged “unbecoming conduct” ever come out. Until then, I can only say

H/T — Thanks to the reader who pointed me to this whole controversy

We Hunted the Mammoth relies entirely on readers like you for its survival. If you appreciate our work, please send a few bucks our way! Thanks!

Subscribe
Notify of
guest

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

82 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
1 year ago

@Surplus – you don’t just want a magical ‘fix everything’ button, you want to return to childhood when people would just take care of all of this stuff for you.

Lets break this down into points.

Re: How does everyone just KNOW how to navigate this?????

I am not from Ontario, i don’t know how to do Ontario specific things either. I use google.

(Please excuse the lmgtfy link, i can’t take screencaps right now)

I searched ‘finding family doctor Ontario’. The first result after the ads is Healthcare connect.

I know the results might be different for you, but…. Currently, googling (or using startpage.com or duckduckgo.com if you don’t want a search giant harvesting that data) is step one.

Re: I do that but my results are crap!!!

If you consistently get results from another place, even after putting “City” in quotation marks, add it -OtherCity. That will at least get rid of them.

Re- the forms to renew a health card –

without a drivers licence or a passport, it would be more difficult. Have you considered getting an ID?

It’s 35$, lasts for five years. I don’t know what documents you have, but the list seems similar to a health card, so if you were able to get that, you can probably get this.

Re: Customer service people NEVER help me

I remember a power thing you posted about, where you wanted a quick fix for something. And like… So does everyone.

For instance, i set up a spam catcher hotmail email account a few years ago. It turns out that (at that time) if you wanted the account to actually…y’know… Send email, you had to give microsoft your phone number.

I contacted customer service, and was told there was NO WAY you could have an account without providing your email. Well, having an account that does not have that requirement showed me the lie that this is. So i bothered them on my ticket every day for months. It didn’t take a lot of time in my day, just confirming that my email account still couldn’t send emails and then pointing how long it had been like this and asking for an escalation.

They clearly wanted me to give up, but i outlasted them and now have a spam catcher account that can send emails too.

In conclusion: this sucks for everyone.

(Also don’t be all offended at how my example isn’t life threatening, this is just an example. I am not trying to one up or compare, just show that it sucks for everyone.)

Re: i have to walk everywhere –

I remember a point where i had 0$ and was desperately looking for a job. I had made the decision to walk to a bar that was about an hour away to join a social club kind of thing.

It happened once a month. I looked forward to it for weeks. I was going out, and going to do something with people who maybe i would like enough that they would be friends.

Got there, and the event was cancelled a half hour before. I was crushed.

Why did i relate that story? Well, now you know that similar things happen to others. This doesn’t just happen to you.

Re: things are unexpectedly closed
It’s shitty, for sure. But can you get that office’s number, and call? If you can’t find it online, when you are in there next, can you ask for their number and put it in your phone or in a little phone book you could carry around?

By this point, you know the limitations you are working under, you need to think of ways to work around them. Phoning ahead would help.

And if you don’t like talking on the phone (fair, and common), have a script. “Hi, just wanted to check if you’d be open for the next two hours?” “Thanks!” Or “will you be open ~tomorrow between x and y? I’ve got a long trip to come in.”

tips for dealing with customer service people

Often, the thing you want literally isn’t possible for them to do. The computer system has it locked out. If you try to approach every interaction with a “we both know this sucks, is there anything you can do?” You might get further.

I have pretty good success with the whole ‘repeat their limitation’ then ‘acknowledge it’. I want to show them that i know this is bullshit, and they know, but we’ve alll been there. Then i will ask if there is anything they can do to help me. It’s alright if no, but maybe..? Can they tell me who to talk to or transfer me? Can they make a note on my file?

It doesn’t always work, but treating people like they are people who would like to help you but can’t because of the sheer ineptitude of the bureaucracy they work under does work sometimes.

If you asked for the person who made the call at the doctor’s office and the receptionist said that they were that person… It makes me wonder how you were behaving or have behaved, that they wanted you out of the office without talking to anyone else.

You can be angry, of course. One thing i often say when i am angry and dealing with bullshit is “i am angry about the situation, not at you. I’m sorry you are dealing with this.”

But people don’t want to deal with anger, or frightening situations, especially in person. If you talk to them like you talk to us, i’m frankly not surprised at the results you get. *Shrug*

Tl;dr – you don’t know people IRL who can help, but it is apparent there are a few Ontario mammotheers who are willing to help, even with your track record of accepting the advice YOU asked for.

It doesn’t help for anything too personal, but you do have somewhat of a resource.

Just don’t go off on how everyone is out to get you, and if you think about it, isn’t that like SOME OBVIOUSLY NOT RIGHT THING?

Catalpa
Catalpa
1 year ago

@Surpus

Ah, I think that I have an answer to my previous question, then. You mostly want to yell at people and tell them why they aren’t good enough for you. Right, then.

I’m going to attempt to give you a little bit more advice, and then I’m washing my hands of this.

I think maybe people are not quite getting just how isolated I am, other than on the internet …

I wasn’t only suggesting talking to people IRL. There are folks on the internet, too, and it’s likely that some of them have dealt with similar forms. There may be support forums that have been made where you can pose questions or see if somebody already had a similar one.

The same goes for other problems you may be having. Though if you treat the forums the same way you treat this place, don’t expect them to be helpful for you for very long.

It would be nice if there was an actual working search for such things, but whenever I’ve googled ” thingie” I’ve invariably been flooded with results for some town in the southern US with a very similar name

You can search right in google maps. Put in “Clinic [insert town name here] Ontario”. Or zoom in on your town and then search “clinic” or “walk in clinic”. It should narrow the results to areas already nearby.

I recommend searching “clinic”, because even if you don’t have a walk-in clinic in your town, you can get results for other clinics, who might be able to take you on if you can’t wait for healthcare connect.

I don’t live in a small Ontario town but I have done work for many, many tiny ones, and google maps is generally pretty good at identifying the businesses within them.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Often, the thing you want literally isn’t possible for them to do.

Yes this. I work, not exactly in customer service, but close enough. I’m in a benefit service center. So the two companies I’m assigned to would be our customers, not the callers, who those company’s employees/retirees/beneficiaries.

I don’t refuse to do something for someone that it’s in my power to do just to be mean or whatever. If I tell someone I can’t do what they want or don’t have an update on an issue we’re researching for them, it’s the truth. Employees have a certain amount of time to send in dependent verification, pension commencement paperwork takes a certain amount of time to process, I can’t do anything if a carrier refuses to pay a claim, etc. That’s just how it is. And no, I’m not able to just transfer them to the CEO.

Don’t tell customer service reps a long, drawn out tale of woe. It won’t change anything. It’ll just increase the frustration both for yourself and the CSR. If you must express that you need urgent help, do it succinctly. Something like “I’m facing a financial hardship, is there anything that can be done?” It’s not that I don’t care if people are facing a hardship, it’s that my job is it to help within the rules and limitations we have and provide accurate information. Not solve every caller’s every woe.

DetectiveC
DetectiveC
1 year ago

Dave’s post here stirred my memory about a Manosphere site I ran across awhile ago which mentioned RP intellectuals looking for an alternative to Rollo. I found that link, which might be worth leaving here for people interested.

I’m writing about Evo Psych, not dating advice. But Googling some of their terms leads to their sites. This is how I discovered Dave’s site.

I’m sorry @Surplus about America’s healthcare Hell. I don’t blame others struggling trying to find a way to help. May you get a break.
Thanks everyone

Catalpa
Catalpa
1 year ago

@DetectiveC

It’s not American healthcare hell that Surplus is dealing with; it’s Canadian healthcare hell. Which is generally better than the American version, but still infuriatingly far from perfect. Mainly because people keep fucking electing Conservative assholes who slash funding, privatize services, and generally drag us ever closer to the nightmare that is the American healthcare system.

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
1 year ago

@Rhuu:

I searched ‘finding family doctor Ontario’. The first result after the ads is Healthcare connect.

I’d prefer not to tell Google all about my health issues if I can possibly avoid it. Same with any other tech giant.

That being said, why would I do such a search and then blindly trust that the top (or any) result was legit rather than a scam? Literally anyone could create a website with a plausible sounding name and pay an SEO firm to give it good ranking on health care related search terms and not be anything official, or useful.

Got there, and the event was cancelled a half hour before. I was crushed.

Why did i relate that story? Well, now you know that similar things happen to others. This doesn’t just happen to you.

I know. But it happened to you once. Shit like that happens to me seemingly on a monthly basis.

But can you get that office’s number, and call?

Many of the incidents have been at places whose hours I already knew. They were quite definitely supposed to be open. The only way your advice would work when they are actively going to renege on their own deal is if a) I did all of this looking up and calling phones every single time I was going out, for each place I intended to go, rather than once, which would add over half an hour of additional prep to every single trip. Untenable. And b) they are like demons in folklore who are contractually limited in how evil they can be, so e.g. they are allowed to lie on their signage on their own front door but forbidden to do so over the phone.

If I can’t trust the door signage, or even trust them to be open on the exact same day at the exact same time they were last week, then I can’t trust them to be open. Period. Phoning them wouldn’t make a difference. If they’re out to screw me by closing early or changing their hours without notice, there is apparently nothing I can do about that. They could make the decision to close early after my phone call and before I arrive. In fact they probably will.

Often, the thing you want literally isn’t possible for them to do.

That may be true in your case, which apparently is most commonly dealing with bureaucracies and red tape (like the health care shit). My most common case of dismal customer service experiences is technical support, where the thing I want is almost invariably some variation of either “turn some thingy at your end back on” or “how do I reset/undo/whatever something that glitched with this thingy you sold me?” It’s invariably the case that I’m just trying to restore some status quo ante, which means the thing I want not only is possible for them to do, but they had been doing it, merrily, right up until about ten minutes before my call, and had then inexplicably stopped.

It doesn’t always work, but …

This is my biggest problem with most of the advice I’ve gotten. It all seems to depend way too much on everything from “there’s an obviously legit search result rather than a whole lot of competing and confusing stuff from some mix of legit and scammy entities with no easy way to tell them apart” to the whims of other people in various places, with a generous helping of luck added in.

I don’t do luck. First of all, I don’t have any. Second of all, what I do have is almost uniformly terrible. And third, I am being asked to invest enormously more time and energy into each attempt to do any of these things than the next guy, and I am going to demand that if that continues to be the case I get to enjoy at least a proportionately higher success probability per attempt, preferably 100%. If I am going to be hoofing it for an hour and a half, all told, as part of getting a thing done then I for DAMN sure want that thing to be done as I am taking the first step on the return journey home.

Between my lack of luck and that extra effort that the world demands of me, any time you say “it doesn’t always work” I see “it probably won’t work, and trying will almost certainly just end up wasting several hours of your life, but for some reason I’m going to suggest it anyway”.

@Catalpa:

You mostly want to yell at people and tell them why they aren’t good enough for you.

No; and why are you putting words in my mouth?

I wasn’t only suggesting talking to people IRL. There are folks on the internet, too, and it’s likely that some of them have dealt with similar forms. There may be support forums that have been made where you can pose questions or see if somebody already had a similar one.

Yes, undoubtedly there are folks on the internet who have dealt with similar forms. Undoubtedly the Venn diagram of those folks and my friends list has zero overlap, as well, so I’m not sure how their existence is of importance here. I’d have to actually happen to know one of them. And even were I to luck (despite not having any) into knowing one of them, I’d be limited by the online medium into only being able to talk about the situation. I wouldn’t likely have any opportunity to show them the forms, or any related documentation, in person, in particular.

I don’t live in a small Ontario town but I have done work for many, many tiny ones, and google maps is generally pretty good at identifying the businesses within them.

How reliable is it about weeding out scammers, trolls, and other liars of various motives? Is there some quick way to double-check the validity of an entry there? I’d expect legit health clinics might have some kind of seal of approval from some kind of accreditation authority, but (and here’s that woefully-underprepared-due-to-nonstandard-schooling part again) I wouldn’t have the first clue where to find this information. Or solve the chicken-and-egg problem if there are fake accreditation authorities too.

Actually that’s a theorem in internet authentication, PKI, and similar things: to really be sure of who you’re dealing with online (as opposed to just that “it’s the same person I dealt with online last week”), there has to be some out of band exchange of keys or other information. Basically, you have to have met them in meatspace in some capacity. Makes it difficult to trust any almost-all-online process that ends with “go to this street address” will not prove to be a wild goose chase, or worse. So I’m generally comfortable with double-checking some things via google maps for bricks-and-morter businesses I’ve already visited IRL, but somewhat leery of starting online to find something completely new, if that thing won’t be staying wholly online.

@nobody in particular:

This whole thing, including the cutting remarks in some of the responses in this thread, just further seems to reinforce how I’m just not well equipped to deal with this sort of thing, or with people, especially people who were happy to transact with me in some businesslike fashion before but are suddenly and inexplicably uncooperative.

But it’s not just me. It’s very clear to me that sometimes I am set up to fail. Yeah, yeah, I know, I’m just being paranoid. But consider this. Here are recent significant failures I’ve run into.

– Needed a ride to get some frozen foods and also a couple of items from Wal-Mart that might not fit in my pack. Arranged with a relative that they’d meet me at 11:30 am next day. At about 11:05 the next day I am interrupted getting ready by an impatient phone call — apparently they are already here and have even been waiting for a while, and expected me to just show up downstairs by psychically knowing they were there early! They insisted that they’d arranged to meet me at 11:00, though it had been 11:30, when I asked why they changed the time. No answer at all as to why they didn’t call ahead to say they were getting close, especially after having moved up the timetable. Seems that would be basic courtesy?

– A second incident with the same person: they refused to take me to the Wal-mart, using as excuse that their vehicle had a trailer, so they couldn’t park there, which of course didn’t make sense. They had no problem parking at the grocery store on the same trip, with the same trailer. I can only assume they were punishing me for being late and making them wait, despite the fact that a) I was not late (for the originally agreed 11:30) and b) I would not have made them wait if they had called to let me know they were getting close, as I would have abbreviated my getting-ready routine.

– They were in a bad mood the whole time, angry apparently at having been kept waiting, even though it was their own damn fault and I had done everything correctly.

– As a result of the above, I can’t replace an oven tray that is getting grungy and crusted-over with a shiny new one. It probably won’t fit in my backpack, and apparently it’s somehow impossible to park at the Wal-Mart, which is the only known seller of such items in town, so I can’t get it on foot and I can’t get it not-on-foot either. (And before someone chimes in that there’s some online place that sells them and delivers them to your doorstep: no, I am not going to go through ten thousand more bureaucratic hoops to apply for credit to get (denied for) a credit card so that I can (not) spend an extra $10 on shipping and handling for a $7 item so it can be (not) trucked or flown in all the way from the States, guzzling gas and spewing carbon all the way, instead of more efficiently getting one from a bulk shipment that already is here in town.)

– Went to the health clinic to make a doctor’s appointment around noon on a Friday, and the place was shut, locked, and no sign of anyone there. Sign on the door said Open Mon-Fri 8am to 4:30 pm (or maybe it was even 5 pm), but someone had hastily scrawled “Thurs” on a bit of paper and taped it over the “-Fri”, since my last visit.

– Went there again the next Thursday and you all already know what they did then.

I can’t get oven sheets. I can’t get prescriptions. I can’t even try to do these things without people getting pissed off at me. When I try to fix these things afterward, again people get pissed off at me. It doesn’t matter how hard I try, or how correctly I perform each step, someone will always find fault and turn it into an excuse to be angry, or to not do their part of something per prior agreement, or something. The doctor appointment thing is very clearly a case where “the fix was in”. Before I even set out on my first attempt to schedule that appointment someone had clearly decided that that attempt would fail. They made an impromptu change to the place’s hours of operation to thwart my first attempt and when I persisted they deleted me completely from their roster of patients. Don’t tell me that isn’t what happened. That’s exactly what the observational data says happened. The fix was in. No matter what I did, on either day, I was not walking home with that appointment scheduled.

My competence or skill at the task was never going to be a factor. I was set up to fail no matter what.

That has been provably the case on numerous occasions. Enough for me to suspect it was the case on all, or almost all, of the others as well.

So yes, I want other people to just make all this shit work for me. Because that’s the only way it will work at all. When I try to do these things for myself, I usually fail. I don’t fuck it up and fail. I do everything as correctly as I can with the information I have and either succeed by the bare skin of my teeth or, very often, fail. Because the game is rigged. The rules don’t matter. Whether I do it right doesn’t matter. The outcome is already decided, by some shadowy figure somewhere, like a fixed boxing match. It’s not my story to write. I cannot succeed or fail on my own merits because the outcome isn’t decided by my merits at all, but by someone else who has decided for me whether I even can succeed or not, before I even fucking TRY.

Why should I make more than a token effort, then? If success is preordained a token effort will be enough. If failure is preordained a heroic effort backed by vast expertise and powers of intellect will NOT be enough. So why make the effort? Why bother with anything, other than a thing where even the attempting is fun, win or lose?

I’ve learned not to. I’ve been TAUGHT not to by every interaction I’ve ever had with people, with “the system”, with authority, with the entirety of the world beyond the skin that bounds my own body.

World, if you wanted me to make more of an effort myself to do these things rather than give up almost immediately and ask someone else, you should have been made in such a way that my choices, my efforts or lacks thereof, my expertise or lack thereof mattered to the outcome. But you weren’t. Effort is worth nothing, only birthright. Rich people will get richer whether they do well or fuck up. If you’re one of the anointed ones, you can be a crass unlikeable bully and every business venture you attempt can go bankrupt and you will get everything you ever dreamed of: riches, gold-plated skyscrapers with your name on their tops in 70-foot-high letters, travel everywhere, an Eastern European model for a wife (and no doubt her wishes don’t enter into it), private planes, and if that is eventually not enough for you you can throw your hat in the ring and bam! you’re the President, too. On the other hand, those preordained (by whomever) to fail, like myself, will spend some chunk of our lives slowly circling the drain independently of effort. Try harder and all we get is sweatier. Learn more and we get to have a diploma hanging on the wall of our ratty low-rent (relatively speaking, of course) apartment above the rack containing the crufty ancient floppy disk with the faded-to-illegibility label that has a probably-no-longer-readable copy of the resume.doc file nobody ever responded to with so much as a call in for an interview, instead of empty space. Be smarter and all we get is to know exactly how fucking rigged every single thing is, which at least might save us some sweat since it’ll be sooner before we figure out to stop wasting so much effort on actually trying.

I don’t think you can help me. The real underlying problem can’t be fixed by anything short of an armed revolution at this point, I suspect. If even that. And until that real underlying problem is fixed nothing that I do will matter. I can put in the extra effort to follow all the suggestions posted here and at the end of the road I’ll find exactly the same, preordained outcome — probably another failure — that I’ll find if I make a token effort and then crawl in bed.

Sorry to have bothered you. You aren’t the problem. The system is the problem and there aren’t enough of you to overthrow the system. We’re all in the same position of complete futility. Just maybe some of us haven’t realized it yet.

Catalpa
Catalpa
1 year ago

No; and why are you putting words in my mouth?

Well, responding to people offering you advice that you specifically solicted previously with

any time you say “it doesn’t always work” I see “it probably won’t work, and trying will almost certainly just end up wasting several hours of your life, but for some reason I’m going to suggest it anyway”.

tends to come across as pretty frigging hostile, so I call them as I see them.

How reliable is it about weeding out scammers, trolls, and other liars of various motives? Is there some quick way to double-check the validity of an entry there?

I find it hard to believe that scammers would go through the trouble of setting up a fake clinic in a town of 20,000 people in order to… do what, exactly? You don’t pay for clinic visits in Ontario, so they wouldn’t be making money off of it. Kidnapping, I guess? Seems like an incredibly convoluted thing to go through for that end.

I guess if you’re specifically looking for an abortion clinic, there are always those bullshit ‘pregnancy crisis centres’ that look to pressure people into keeping an unwanted pregnancy. Other than that, I don’t think that fake clinics are a thing in Ontario.

If you’re worried about someone putting fake information into google maps, and that the label applied to the building is not the one that is there IRL, you could check streetview and see if you can spot signage from the available photos. I know streetview isn’t always available for smaller towns, but generally the main streets are still covered.

kupo
kupo
1 year ago

My most common case of dismal customer service experiences is technical support, where the thing I want is almost invariably some variation of either “turn some thingy at your end back on” or “how do I reset/undo/whatever something that glitched with this thingy you sold me?”

Those are things that, 99.9% of the time, are physically impossible to do. I know you’ll reject this because you always reject it, but that doesn’t make you right.

Sincerely,
A Former Tech Support Representative

Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
1 year ago

I know. But it happened to you once. Shit like that happens to me seemingly on a monthly basis.

you really need to stop assuming that just because someone gives one example it means it only happened to them once. they are giving an example not a statistic if every single time it happened. you make so many assumptions it stops you from seeing the reality.

ReductiveChaos
ReductiveChaos
1 year ago

@Surplus:

I have a couple minor things to note.

I didn’t know that pharmacists apparently will sometimes bend the rules in situations like this, either.

While a fairly minor distinction, this is important: Pharmacists are not bending rules to extend ongoing prescriptions. They are legally permitted to do so, at their discretion. I believe their professional organizations have also been encouraging them to do so more often, especially when doing so is to the benefit of the patient with little-to-no risk.

That being said, why would I do such a search and then blindly trust that the top (or any) result was legit rather than a scam?

Check the URL, first off. The first result in what Rhuu googled was from “ontario.ca”. The second result was from “health.gov.on.ca”. Both of those are, at least to me, obviously legitimate. If in doubt, you can find those domains on a number of official government publications.

You can also go to “ontario.ca” and punch in “find family doctor” into their own search box and find that same page that way. No Google needed — governments are generally better, these days, about having passable search systems for their own pages and services.

You can also use non-Google search engines to, typically, find the same pages as or nearly-as easily. Or install the Tor Browser Bundle and use that for this sort of searching, if you’re really wanting anonymity for something extremely sensitive.

Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
1 year ago

Surplus – re: not wanting to give google the information – THAT IS WHY I SAID TO USE DUCKDUCKGO OR STARTPAGE.COM

Seriously, wtf.

Re: How will I KNOWWWWW that page is LEGITTTTT it could be FAKKKKKKEEEEEEEEEEE

Are you like, seven million years old? You seem to have some tech savvy-ness, CHECK THE URL.

How do you know *this* site is legit? A scammer could have put it up!!!

Re: this bullshit

I know. But it happened to you once. Shit like that happens to me seemingly on a monthly basis.

Do you want me to relate my entire life? This is *one fucking example*, you absolute jackass.

I’m not going to start dredging things up, because you are frankly not worth the emotional investment, and *I* don’t want that stuff online associated with me.

Jackass.

Re: Calling before you go – THIS IS A SOLUTION. If you don’t want to call ahead, you don’t get to complain if the place is closed.

I’m starting to think you forget that *everyone else you interact with* is human, and has human lives.

“This office is closed!! No! They must be doing it to me ON PURPOSE!”

(narrator: Someone’s kid was sick, and they had to stay home. Someone else had an unexpected emergency, and had to leave. BECAUSE PEOPLE HAVE LIVES.)

Does it suck? Yes.

YOU HAVE A SOLUTION, CALL. You are too lazy to do it.

WTF is this

Often, the thing you want literally isn’t possible for them to do.

That may be true in your case, which apparently is most commonly dealing with bureaucracies and red tape (like the health care shit).

Fuck you.

THIS IS HOW YOU DEAL WITH CSRs. Fucking *all the time*. Jackass.

Catalpa:

You mostly want to yell at people and tell them why they aren’t good enough for you.

No; and why are you putting words in my mouth?

BECAUSE THAT IS ALL YOU EVER DO. We can all *read*, Surplus, we see this.

I don’t have time to read the rest of your wall of text, seriously. I’ll come back to it later, if I have time.

SERIOUSLY.

I just can’t with you. Next time you ask for help, all I’m going to post is this:

comment image

comment image

comment image

comment image

comment image

Because you will NOT listen. You do NOT want advice, you want things you can shoot down, so everyone knows how impossible your life is.

kupo
kupo
1 year ago

World, if you wanted me to make more of an effort myself to do these things rather than give up almost immediately and ask someone else, you should have been made in such a way that my choices, my efforts or lacks thereof, my expertise or lack thereof mattered to the outcome. But you weren’t. Effort is worth nothing, only birthright.

It’s probably taken you a thousand times more effort to write these screeds denouncing us for offering help you deem beneath you and for suggesting that other people also experience inconvenience regularly than it would take you to just follow the advice and go to the damn website.

Hippodameia
Hippodameia
1 year ago

Surplus, I’m going to remind you that the last time you went on one of these extended rants David had to step in and tell you to cool it. Everyone here has been more than generous to you (repeatedly) and you need to stop treating everyone as your personal punching bag.

Shadowplay
1 year ago

@Rhuu

I just can’t with you. Next time you ask for help, all I’m going to post is this:

Ignoring works too.

You tried. You’re a good people.

Big Titty Demon
Big Titty Demon
1 year ago

@Surplus

Your anger, your constant attempts to drive away anyone who helps you, and some things you have said about your past make me think that you have survived some experience with a cult or insular, cult-like fundamentalist group of some stripe (extreme survivalists, for example). Possibly a family group with an abusively authoritarian parent or other hierarchical figure. I’ve seen this kind of purposeful pushing of people’s buttons to test if people really will leave before. Do I have the right of it?

To be honest, it’s the only charitable explanation I can come up with. You are quite staggeringly rude to other commenters here. Despite this, I will have a go at helping you with two possible solutions to your fear of giving google information. I cannot help you with your healthcare problem because I do not have the common experience of Canadian healthcare that Rhuu has with you.

1) If there is a public library or internet cafe in your town, you can use a public computer to search google anonymously. Google’s machine learning algorithms are not good enough to tell it is you from a search for medical offices from a random IP address if you don’t log in to your account.

2) If you can’t make it to a public computer, a VPN on your home computer will serve the same purpose, providing you do not log in to your google account when you browse via the VPN.

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
1 year ago

@BTD:

A somewhat strict and authoritarian dad (now a Fox-watcher who froths at the mouth if the United Nations or socialism get mentioned, natch) but no cults or fundies that I can recall.

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
1 year ago

As for my anger? I’m angry because the world won’t let me succeed. It holds me to standards I often can’t meet, and when I do meet them it often moves the frigging goal posts and still goes “BZZZT! Not good enough, try again”. I mean look at me, I can’t even do something as basic as go to the clinic and set up a doctor’s appointment now without being told that I’ve fucked up in some unspecified way badly enough to have to go through a huge, new, and intimidating complex bureaucratic maze just to re-establish the ability to maybe set up such appointments … and all this, of course, without my having actually fucked up at all, since all I did was the exact same thing that had succeeded the last 8 or 9 times. See? Moving goalposts!

The whole plutocracy thing is bad enough, but for some reason for me it’s not just the economy that behaves as a rigged carnival game (as it does for everybody). It’s absolutely every single thing. Private sector or public, big or small, whether there’s money involved or not. Rigged. Rigged, rigged, rigged. And yet even though my skill and effort count for nothing, if I don’t get the stupid little ball in the exact right hole on the first try, it’s still me who gets punished, as if I could or should have somehow done better anyway.

This time with a countdown to the return of those awful, horrible cramps and no obvious way for me to guaranteeably stop that countdown before it hits zero. All because I did I-don’t-even-know-what, or, more likely, didn’t do I-don’t-even-know-what-and-was-never-told-I-needed-to-do-it.

Sometimes I wonder if all of this shit is even real, or if I’m actually being experimented on by something, like some people experiment on lab mice in mazes. Only in the maze I got put in pretty much every action leads to a shock rather than a food pellet. Plus random shocks from inaction when apparently I was supposed to suddenly get up and do something instead.

Such fun!

So yeah, I often get angry. Wouldn’t you, were our positions reversed?

cornychips
cornychips
1 year ago

@surplus

Stop. i say this as a concerned person coming from a place of friendship. When you spiral into negativity its not good for you, nor is it good for your relationships with other commenters. Your comments alienate people who would try to help you.

Please. For your own good. Please stop. And join the other mammoths on another thread to mock some trolls. 😉

Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
1 year ago

I agree with cornychips.

Catalpa
Catalpa
1 year ago

Well, I hope that abusing other people makes you feel better, because it sure as hell isn’t going to help you in your situation.

But I suppose that since you’re convinced that nothing short of armed revolution will be able to improve your life in any way, you might as well be shitty to others. After all, the only reason to show decency towards other people is if it directly benefits you.

Shadowplay
1 year ago

but for some reason for me it’s not just the economy that behaves as a rigged carnival game (as it does for everybody). It’s absolutely every single thing.

Sometimes I wonder if all of this shit is even real, or if I’m actually being experimented on by something, like some people experiment on lab mice in mazes.

Either there is a huge, cumbersome conspiracy by the entire universe to make your life difficult,

or

You’re a miserable, whining git.

The simplest explanation is usually the correct one.

kupo
kupo
1 year ago

I mean look at me, I can’t even do something as basic as go to the clinic and set up a doctor’s appointment now without being told that I’ve fucked up in some unspecified way badly enough to have to go through a huge, new, and intimidating complex bureaucratic maze just to re-establish the ability to maybe set up such appointments

You weren’t told that at all. You were told you’re no longer their patient because of some recent changes. This constant focus on yourself, as if you’re the only person these inconveniences ever happen to, is causing you to spiral into a rage when you could already have a new appointment if you had just followed the advice you were given in the very first reply you got. But no, you have to take out your anger at everything from checkstands sometimes closing when you would have been next in line to someone picking you up at the wrong time due to a misunderstanding, contort them into conspiracies to murder you, and attack anyone who doesn’t agree with you on that point.

EVERYONE GOES THROUGH THIS STUFF.

In fact, most people go through much, much worse than the worst example I’ve ever seen you post on here. Your problems you rage at us about are petty and your anger is NOT justified. You’re abusive and self-centered and you need to STOP.

Big Titty Demon
Big Titty Demon
1 year ago

@Surplus

As for my anger? I’m angry because the world won’t let me succeed. It holds me to standards I often can’t meet, and when I do meet them it often moves the frigging goal posts and still goes “BZZZT! Not good enough, try again”.

[…]

This time with a countdown to the return of those awful, horrible cramps and no obvious way for me to guaranteeably stop that countdown before it hits zero.

[…]

So yeah, I often get angry. Wouldn’t you, were our positions reversed?

I can honestly say no. I would not. But that’s because I learned not to be; if you asked me a decade ago, the answer would be yes.

Re: your complaint of shifting goalposts. Are you not a woman/do you not know any women? This is our life. We can never be good enough. I can’t even construct a coherent narrative of how many times this has happened in my life, or how often I’ve seen it happen in the lives of my mother, sisters, and friends. I literally have an unending river of examples, so broad that you can’t dip in a toe without being swept away by a flood of context.

Re: your fear of pain. I get this. Believe me, I get this. I had a crippling mental breakdown because a dumb asshole ignored clinical evidence and went by blood test only, and revoked my thyroid prescription. It kicked me out of my second Ph.D. attempt because I could not function from depression and anxiety, and had to go on medical leave, but was not able to come back before the time expired. This was a miserable experience. I was crying in my apartment for hours every day, unable to leave, and unable to do the most basic things. I lost my student insurance, but was able to go on ACA insurance, and I was saved from that episode by an autistic doctor from Florida. Then along comes Trump, and what does he do? Tries to take away my ACA insurance! The thing that saved my life! All through no fault of my own. I didn’t vote for the trump (used as the worst expletive possible here, there is nothing worse than a trump), why should I have to suffer because he stole an election? So I understand the fear of having to suffer through no fault of one’s own.

Re: anger. I could easily be angry now. I live in a country that constantly tries to take away my fundamental human right to bodily autonomy, that won’t grant me the opportunities that men take for granted. I am constantly policed for my looks, my tone, my ability. I am in a situation where no matter how much effort I pour into a problem, I cannot succeed, because the person one level up in charge has decided I will not succeed. Someone stole my research and gave to other people, because he was threatened by my existence. There is a person undercutting me at every turn, and I can’t do anything about it because they aren’t doing anything actionable. Hell, I could choose to be angry that I was molested for a decade starting when I was 5 years old. But being angry all the time is no way to live. Unfocused anger effects no change and only makes you and everyone around you miserable. I’ll give you my two cents on how to live life:

1) Don’t be angry all the time. I don’t say this as a way of controlling you to fit into society, I say it for your own health. Constant anger will lead to stress for you and everyone else. It will poison the relationships you do have (which you do have some, you mentioned a relative you were angry at about a ride). Consciously make the decision to think of something else if you cannot think of something without anger. Count to 10 before you say anything to customer service agents if you are angry, or don’t make the call in the first place until you’ve calmed down from the issue. Speaking to people in the first flush of anger at a situation is the worst possible thing you can do, and is always a guaranteed way to say things that will offend others. (Possibly also, if you are a man, remember that anger is often how men display depression; as a former depressed person, I highly recommend asking a doctor about treatment if you suspect at all that this could be the case.)

If there is something you are especially angry about (conservatives in power, it seems?) then focus your anger. Motivate yourself to some meaningful action: campaign for your local progressives even if you think they will lose. Don’t be “that angry liberal” and flail about in unfocused rage; you just create a link between liberals and nasty people in the minds of conservatives around you. Be focused and respectful, and forge ahead with the will to change the underlying cause of the problem.

2) Even when you are angry, treat others with respect even if you don’t think they deserve it. Not as a reflection of their character, but as a reflection of yours. Be the person you wish other people would be to you. Would you want people to constantly be angry to you in the course of your daily job? Would you want people to dunk on you for trying to help them? Would you want to hang out with a friend that was only ever angry all the time? Be the change you seek. It’s gonna be a long, unfair slog, but you will be happier over time.

Allandrel
Allandrel
1 year ago

@Surplus,

I’ve always had tremendous difficulty navigating social situations that seemed incredibly simple for everyone else, and did not get the diagnosis (autism spectrum disorder) that enabled me to get help until I was 32. I still find social situations as simple as making a phone call cripplingly anxiety-inducing.

After months of increasing fatigue and muscle pain, I was diagnosed with end-stage renal failure on my 28th birthday, and spent two and a half-years on peritoneal dialysis during which my entire life was on hold, and if I made single mistake during my four-times-a-day exchanges, I could develop peritonitis and die in agony. I finally received a transplant for which the recovery was agonizing.

I spent YEARS trying to get part-time work, which even with a government agency dedicated to helping people like me was a bureaucratic nightmare. I finally got a job last November.

This March, I crapped blood for five days straight, requiring a total of nine transfusions and four procedures to determine the source of bleeding. This required that I repeatedly go without food or water for 12-16 hours before being put under anesthesia, where I have a huge phobia of anesthesia awareness. They didn’t find anything despite all that.

During my twelve days in the hospital, they found that my kidney transplant was failing, and I had to start hemodialysis, which is awful, controls my schedule, and features implanted catheters that interfere with daily activities like bathing as well as making me feel physically repulsive.

I’d like to get another set of surgeries to go back to peritoneal dialysis, because it is slightly less awful, but I can’t until they find the source of my GI bleed from back in March, for which I’ve had about one procedure a month with no success yet.

My point for laying all this out?

I still do my best to be kind to everyone, including being polite when seeking help.

Lainy
Lainy
1 year ago

@Allandrel

Bro you got a cool name.

Allandrel
Allandrel
1 year ago

@Lainy

Thanks! It’s from a fantasy epic I wrote when I was twelve, that nobody will EVER see because it was everything you expect from a fantasy epic written by a twelve-year-old.

Allandrel was one of the main characters, and whenever I put him into an “Is your character a Mary Sue?” test, he always scores at least 90%. But I still love the name.

Big Titty Demon
Big Titty Demon
1 year ago

@Allandrel

Well, that’s a shit sandwich you got there, sorry about that.

My first 15 characters were all Mary Sues. I did not learn the benefit of character balance until much longer than I should have. They had substantially less cool names though.

Lainy
Lainy
1 year ago

@Allandrel

I thought that was for female characters.

Allandrel
Allandrel
1 year ago

@Big Titty Demon

What’s funny is some of these things (like performing peritoneal dialysis for two and a half years with the threat of painful death if I messed up) were LESS stressful for me than any given day working at a call center. It’s strange how different people handle different situations.

Allandrel is an interesting Mary Sue in that he doesn’t hit any of the “self-insert fantasy” Mary Sue tropes, but boy howdy does he hit the “super special hero” tropes hard. Elf raised by humans, last of a noble line with his deritage kept hidden, hunted by his family’s enemies, unique hair and eye colors, facial scar that doesn’t impact his hotness, Chosen One (well part of a Chosen Twelve) with Sooper Speshul Unique Powahs, has a magic sword that was handed down by his family, is The Greatest Swordsman In The World, has an early star-crossed love, lover killed by his enemy, kills that guy in an epic swordfight, is heartbroken for ages and is pulled out of his shell by his One True Love, comes back from death due solely to his love for her, oh lord that was just the first three volumes.

Like I said, I was twelve.

@Lainy

Sometimes Mary Sue is gender neutral, others use “Marty Stu” for male characters. I prefer “Mary Sue” regardless of gender because it’s more recognizable.

Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy

@Big Titty Demon (always makes me smile, seeing that nym)

@Allandrel (lovely nym reminds me a bit of the characters from Garth Nix’s series)

Thanks for those posts. They are much appreciated, and I just happened to see them at a time when I needed this kind of reminder.

Lainy
Lainy
1 year ago

@Allandrel

You are right, that is a lot for a character to be in one thing. I’ll tell you though you were for sure go big or go home at only 12.

Rahu
Rahu
1 year ago

Sorry to necro this thread, but two things that might prove helpful:

1) when using the internet to look up stuff in your local area, instead of using the name of your town and then going through all the similarly-named towns located far away from you, try using your postal code instead

2) for help reaching a person in customer service, try this site: https://gethuman.com/

3) remember that the person you reach in customer service has (unless they’ve just started their shift) already had a very long, hard day and being nice is very helpful all ’round.