By David Futrelle
It’s not just Men’s Rights Activists who’ve appropriated the language of the Civil Rights movement in order to further their reactionary cause. The incels do it too — though, incels being incels, they tend to be much weirder about it.
Take, for example, this dude on the Incels.co forums, arguing quite sincerely that incels deserve reparations for being incels just as much as African-Americans deserve reparations for slavery:
![[Serious] Incels deserve reparations just as much as African Americans.
Thread starterEmergency Manual Start dateMar 22, 2019
Emergency Manual
Emergency Manual
Hanging On
-
Joined:Nov 13, 2018
Messages:4,529
Mar 22, 2019
#1
Some people believe African Americans deserve reparations for things that were done by peoples ancestors.
These same people should support incels getting reparations for allowing our genetic trash families to reproduce. We were never asked if we wanted to be born and the actions of our ancestors has irreparably damaged our ability to be normal functioning human beings.](https://i2.wp.com/www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/2019-05-17_18-32-57.png?fit=600%2C804)
So I’m trying to follow the logic here:
If African Americans deserve reparations because of the legacy of 400 years of slavery, during which their ancestors were enslaved by the ancestors of others living in the US today …
Then incels deserve reparations because their own ancestors were allowed to have sex, and babies, for many generations, until their “genetic trash” mother gave birth to them.
Mr. Emergency Manual doesn’t specify exactly what sort of reparations he has in mind, whether he’s talking about bags of money or (presumably non-procreative) sex with some deeply unfortunate woman of his choice.
But, hey, the other incels responding to his proposal are ready to get on board regardless.
“We deserve it more,” writes Insomniac, “slavery is a thing of the past. No negro alive today has suffered from it.”
StoicNihilist, whose avatar is Nietzsche holding a gun, agrees:
No joke. I think that people like us (if you are a genuine Truecel) should be able to get financial aid from the government like disabled people. Being ugly in today’s world is effectively a disability. Most employers are biased as hell against ugly or otherwise unattractive people. My ugliness has without a doubt been the cause of me not being able to hold down a job and winding up homeless a few times.
A commenter called Wonder isn’t holding his breath.
Maybe we will in a few centuries. Families that had incels will recieve some sort of compensation. We won’t recieve anything.
Others are less interested in money than they are with being somehow provided with government-issued sex.
“I think the situation is slightly similar to the pre voting rights for black people era,” suggests Truecurrycel. “Sex should be recognised as a human right.”
Naturally, there are some incels convinced that they have it worse today than the slaves did. Adversor, who clearly wasn’t paying much attention during history class, asserts that
Many black slaves still had a black wife and kids. Sure, their lives were pretty shit but at least they had regular sex with the wife and were loved by their kids. Incels have absolutely nothing good in their lives. Slavery is nothing compared to a life of trueceldom.
In fact, slaveowners routinely raped female slaves and broke up slave families. And “not having sex” is hardly the same as the existential horror of literally being enslaved by another person. But you go ahead and feel sorry for yourself, dude.
Angrycurrycel, meanwhile, seems to have learned most of his history from PornHub.
“At least during slavery,” he whines, “white women still fetishized negroes.”
That might be enough internet for today.
We Hunted the Mammoth is independent and ad-free, and relies entirely on readers like you for its survival. If you appreciate our work, please send a few bucks our way! Thanks!
Bragging about how a lot of other people are just as shitty as you are isn’t the own you think it is.
You’re fucking admitting to imitating a Nazi tactic. That is complaining about the “lugenpresse” while constantly lying.
Do you really think that embracing fascists is going to work out well for you and your fellow Jewish people? I mean, seriously? How are you this stupid? Have you not noticed how anti-Semitic the far right is? They only pretend to tolerate Israel because of the whole role in the apocalypse thing that the evangelical faction of the right has a boner for.
OT: Does anyone have a good finger on the pulse of the economy? I think it’s heading for a crash Real Soon Now(tm), in part based on the fact that the current business expansion is statistically overdue to end, and in part because look at the freaking DOW it’s so weeeeeeird! Put “djia” into a google search and you’ll get a graph you can fiddle with. Click “5 years” and you’ll see a rise — the Obama recovery — and then in early 2018 an abrupt change in behavior. It plateaus, but with sky-high volatility. It gives the distinct impression of a moth that flew up and ran into a glass ceiling at around 27,000 and has been batting itself against that obstacle ever since.
Something won’t let the DOW grow past 27,000, and it’s probably related to the actual productive capacity of our industries, which have been growing very little. Whatever the cause, though, it’s a sure sign of trouble, because the whole capitalist house of cards — especially the banking and credit sectors, but everything else depends on those — relies on an assumption of steady growth to keep debt under control by inflating it away. Without growth, all of the debt, and there’s a huge amount because the 2008 crash was prevented from doing what it naturally would have and wiping away never-payable debts, has turned into a ticking bomb. The only question is when it will go off, not if, if the stagnation of the total size of the economy continues.
The last crisis saw America’s credit rating lowered from AAA to AA, an historic loss, and the beginning of significant decline in the power of the petro-dollar system. The next one seems likely to wipe both things out entirely, and then the US is “just another country”: if it prints money to service foreign debts it will then experience hyperinflation, in particular. It will be in the same situation as post-WWI Germany, in other words, bankrupt and owing a shit-ton of money, and we all know how that ended …
Hey, does anyone know how to get to the full article text here without paying or giving them your email address?
https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-is-on-the-iron-throne-and-american-democracy-is-dead
The text just fades and stops in the middle of the first paragraph. Presumably you’re supposed to pay or register in some way to see more, but oddly I don’t see a login link. The usual bypass tricks (google cache, turning off CSS) don’t seem to work either.
How do I bypass this one?
@Surplus
The optimistic view of that is that if the economy crashes in, say, eight months, Trump loses his big argument that’s keeping the “I’m all right, Jack” assholes voting for him (as in, “Sure, he’s an idiot, but the economy’s fine, so what do I care”). Which might be enough to kill him in the mushy middle and lose him the election, as the Dems would get to play the “The economy only went well because Trump was riding on Obama’s coattails” card.
Never mind, war will take people’s minds off the state of the economy!
Incels and succubi, hmm, the practice of lucid dreaming comes to mind. And if they were away playing in their own subconscious, at least they wouldn’t be on the Internet or otherwise engaged in causing difficulties for other people.
@Kevin
Having had the distinct displeasure of the odd peek into their subconcious, they’d probably turn out like Rimmer in Better than Life.
>>>>>Anonymous, there are numerous modern legal precedents for compensation for unpaid wages, workplace death, trauma, loss of property, discrimination, survivors benefits, etc.
Of course; and there well should be. You can get compensation for something I have wrongly done to you, and perhaps your children or family due to lost income or other harm. But I am quite sure you are not entitled to compensation from me due to something – here, slavery – that my great-great-great-grandfather *might* have done to your great-great-great-grandfather.
If you are, then virtually everybody owes everybody, since there isn’t a single group that hasn’t both caused *and* suffered historical outrages during the 150+ years since slavery ended.
Shorter Anonymous:
@ Anonymous
I won’t get into the broader debate about how the law seems to protect capital more than people; but there’s plenty of precedent for exactly that when it comes to property and money.
You might find it interesting to read up on things like ‘resulting’ and ‘constructive’ trusts; and ‘unjust enrichment’.
You may also wish to look at cases where the parties are “The Estate Of….” -v- “The Estate of….”
Well, that’s enough for this particular “anonymous.” Banned.
If there are other people posting as anonymous, please change your name the next time you comment.
Wealth, privilege, opportunity, etc. is generational. Hypothetically, your great-great-grandparents got rich by exploiting slave labour, and they passed that money down to your great-grandparents, who were able to invest in education, nutritious food, preventative healthcare, business, etc, who passed those advantages onto your grandparents, then onto your parents, then onto you.
On the other hand, freed slaves had incredibly limited economic opportunities, employment opportunities, educational opportunities, etc, and generally lived in poverty. They weren’t able to afford to feed their children healthy food that would allow them to grow strong and healthy and smart. They weren’t able to afford preventative healthcare, which leads to more expensive and more dehabilitating health impacts further down the road. They weren’t able to afford education, and were blocked from any possible routes of political or economic power and influence. They were disproportionately targeted by the police and by bigots (but I repeat myself). Their children weren’t able to afford these things either, nor were their children, nor were their children. The cycle of poverty is almost impossible to escape.
So while you may not have actively done anything to harm the descendants of enslaved people, you have benefited from the harm that was committed generations ago. And the descendants are still suffering from the harm that was inflicted on their ancestors generations ago.
Reparations aren’t about punishing *you*. They’re about making things better for the people who are suffering. You know, repairing things. And I don’t think it’s too much to ask that the people who benefit from that committed harm are asked to chip in to try to make things better. Or, you know, even if you aren’t the descendant of slave owners, it’s not too much to ask you to help out your fellow human beings anyhow.
EDIT- oops, ninja’d by David. Thanks for banning the arse!
@Catalpa
I wouldn’t bother explain it. People like Anonymous hate the fact that some white people feel guilty or empathetic about the horrors of slavery and such, so they would like to keep the system that kept black people in oppression but would like it if white people didn’t have to feel any guilt or shame about it. They would also like to pretend its all in the past and the wealth of slavery didn’t effect the way white people and black people are treated today. In other words he’s blind by his own bigotry he can’t bother to look over.
@Catalpa
While I agree with the bulk of your argument, there’s a couple of things that are eating at me.
The first one: would any amount of reparations (should they ever happen) actually be enough to reverse or even mitigate the damage that has occurred since the end of slavery? A simple payment and the equivalent of a “we’re sorry” will do next to nothing about the systems that actually enforce the generational wealth, privilege, etc. At best, it will delay their effects for a generation or two but the root causes of the matter will remain untouched and act to undermine any gains that might be made as a result of said reparations.
The second one is a bit more philosophical, but bear with me. In my eyes, the concept of reparations is akin to saying that you can put a price on generations of suffering- and that by throwing money at it then all the problems resulting from said suffering will be undone at all levels. Perhaps my interpretation is off, but I can’t shake that sense that it trivializes the pains of slavery nevertheless. And while a formal apology would be commendable, would it be enough to prevent something similar from happening again?
At one point i think mammoth had 3 diff commenters that were anonymous. Its fucking annoying when they are in the same thread.
@Lainy
Thanks! I do know that there’s plenty of folks that believe that “everyone is equal now and saying otherwise is all about making white people feel guillty!!” shit, and I have absolutely no hope invested in my post changing the mind of the dickhead trolls I argue with. Mainly I just do it because it may be educational for lurkers and other folks.
Thank you David!!!!!
Oh.
my.
GOD.
@Catalpa
I agree with most of that, but I do have to wonder: even if reparations were approved and funded (from where, I can’t say), will monetary compensation even come close to leveling the playing field? I can’t shake the feeling that it would merely patch the problem over for a generation or two before all the systemic issues undo most or even all of the gains that could be made as a result of reparations. The only way to repair things here is to tear down the entire rotting system and start over from the beginning, I fear.
Plus, call me a bit off but the idea that simple repayment for generations of suffering will make it all better doesn’t feel right to me. It’s almost like trying to put a price tag on the aftereffects of slavery.
Off Topic:
I may be the only one here who still reads Sinfest. After the comic took a turn to the SWERF, it took me a long time to figure out the subtext (I thought that it was just against sex slavery) which is somewhat embarassing as a former sex worker. Even so, I still check it out every once in awhile, because there are still things which keep it from being a complete trashpile.
However, now that this subject seems to be completely played out, Ishida (the creator) seems to be going in an equally disturbing new direction, and he’s not even being subtle. But as I’m kind of bad at reading into subtext I want to make sure I’m interpreting it right. Short version:
A girl follows some zombies into a pharmacy to see what they’re up to. A zombie pharmacist throws pills at her, saying “girl pills!” When she asks why she would want them, he points to a sign detailing masculine and feminine stereotypes. She reacts in disgust. He responds “you want to be a boy then? boy pills!”, throws more pills at her, and wanders off.
(Also, the non-pharmacist zombies are seen chugging down pills.)
Then a boy sees a barbie doll lying be the street, remarks “cute”, and then is immediately kidnapped by orderlies and sent to “gender correction camp”. Upon failing to be convincingly tough/macho at boy’s camp, he gets transferred to the girl’s camp.
(Also, the boy’s gender correction camp has images of swimwear models plastered on various objects.)
It seems like this is suggesting that society is pushing a return to a strict and fairly misogynous gender binary. And part of this is coercing children who don’t perfectly conform to that binary into transitioning. If so, the comic is likely taking a turn to the TERF as well.
Well, at least in better news, I’ve read that John Wick 3 has a non-binary character. This franchise has somehow completely passed me by, I’ve never seen one of these movies. But maybe I should.
@Snowberry
SWERFs and TERFs always go hand in hand. Never seen either that wasn’t the other as well
@Snowberry
I haven’t read Sinfest in years, but let’s be honest, Ishida was never subtle, and he got even less subtle after he discovered feminism. I don’t think I’ve ever felt as preached at in a comic, even when I agreed with him. Which is a pity, because he was actually kind of funny sometimes, like with the little old granny literally giving cookies to men who’d done one good thing.
Still, in a clear depiction of YMMV, I found it turned into a trashpile years ago.
Agree with Bakunin: that’s definitely aimed primarily at trans people, a retelling of the ‘transness is a plot by Big Pharma to sell lots of unnecessary pills’* TERF conspiracy theory.
* This is undermined, of course, by the fact that HRT costs next to nothing compared to brand new drugs that they can put a patent on and sell for ludicrous amounts of money.
@wwth:
… pass.
Seriously, they’re a 2-hour shootout with LESS plot depth than Paris Hilton’s autobiography