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“Incels deserve reparations just as much as African Americans,” galaxy-brained incel proclaims

Here are your reparations, sir!

By David Futrelle

It’s not just Men’s Rights Activists who’ve appropriated the language of the Civil Rights movement in order to further their reactionary cause. The incels do it too — though, incels being incels, they tend to be much weirder about it.

Take, for example, this dude on the Incels.co forums, arguing quite sincerely that incels deserve reparations for being incels just as much as African-Americans deserve reparations for slavery:

[Serious] Incels deserve reparations just as much as African Americans.
 Thread starterEmergency Manual  Start dateMar 22, 2019
 Emergency Manual 
Emergency Manual
Hanging On
-
Joined:Nov 13, 2018
Messages:4,529
Mar 22, 2019

#1
Some people believe African Americans deserve reparations for things that were done by peoples ancestors. 

These same people should support incels getting reparations for allowing our genetic trash families to reproduce. We were never asked if we wanted to be born and the actions of our ancestors has irreparably damaged our ability to be normal functioning human beings.

So I’m trying to follow the logic here:

If African Americans deserve reparations because of the legacy of 400 years of slavery, during which their ancestors were enslaved by the ancestors of others living in the US today …

Then incels deserve reparations because their own ancestors were allowed to have sex, and babies, for many generations, until their “genetic trash” mother gave birth to them.

Mr. Emergency Manual doesn’t specify exactly what sort of reparations he has in mind, whether he’s talking about bags of money or (presumably non-procreative) sex with some deeply unfortunate woman of his choice.

But, hey, the other incels responding to his proposal are ready to get on board regardless.

“We deserve it more,” writes Insomniac, “slavery is a thing of the past. No negro alive today has suffered from it.”

StoicNihilist, whose avatar is Nietzsche holding a gun, agrees:

No joke. I think that people like us (if you are a genuine Truecel) should be able to get financial aid from the government like disabled people. Being ugly in today’s world is effectively a disability. Most employers are biased as hell against ugly or otherwise unattractive people. My ugliness has without a doubt been the cause of me not being able to hold down a job and winding up homeless a few times.

A commenter called Wonder isn’t holding his breath.

Maybe we will in a few centuries. Families that had incels will recieve some sort of compensation. We won’t recieve anything.

Others are less interested in money than they are with being somehow provided with government-issued sex.

“I think the situation is slightly similar to the pre voting rights for black people era,” suggests Truecurrycel. “Sex should be recognised as a human right.”

Naturally, there are some incels convinced that they have it worse today than the slaves did. Adversor, who clearly wasn’t paying much attention during history class, asserts that

Many black slaves still had a black wife and kids. Sure, their lives were pretty shit but at least they had regular sex with the wife and were loved by their kids. Incels have absolutely nothing good in their lives. Slavery is nothing compared to a life of trueceldom.

In fact, slaveowners routinely raped female slaves and broke up slave families. And “not having sex” is hardly the same as the existential horror of literally being enslaved by another person. But you go ahead and feel sorry for yourself, dude.

Angrycurrycel, meanwhile, seems to have learned most of his history from PornHub.

“At least during slavery,” he whines, “white women still fetishized negroes.”

That might be enough internet for today.

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weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Bragging about how a lot of other people are just as shitty as you are isn’t the own you think it is.

As one Israeli voter, who voted for Netanyahu after telling pollsters he voted for his opponent put it, “the press lies to me all year, So I lied back”.

You’re fucking admitting to imitating a Nazi tactic. That is complaining about the “lugenpresse” while constantly lying.

Do you really think that embracing fascists is going to work out well for you and your fellow Jewish people? I mean, seriously? How are you this stupid? Have you not noticed how anti-Semitic the far right is? They only pretend to tolerate Israel because of the whole role in the apocalypse thing that the evangelical faction of the right has a boner for.

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
1 year ago

OT: Does anyone have a good finger on the pulse of the economy? I think it’s heading for a crash Real Soon Now(tm), in part based on the fact that the current business expansion is statistically overdue to end, and in part because look at the freaking DOW it’s so weeeeeeird! Put “djia” into a google search and you’ll get a graph you can fiddle with. Click “5 years” and you’ll see a rise — the Obama recovery — and then in early 2018 an abrupt change in behavior. It plateaus, but with sky-high volatility. It gives the distinct impression of a moth that flew up and ran into a glass ceiling at around 27,000 and has been batting itself against that obstacle ever since.

Something won’t let the DOW grow past 27,000, and it’s probably related to the actual productive capacity of our industries, which have been growing very little. Whatever the cause, though, it’s a sure sign of trouble, because the whole capitalist house of cards — especially the banking and credit sectors, but everything else depends on those — relies on an assumption of steady growth to keep debt under control by inflating it away. Without growth, all of the debt, and there’s a huge amount because the 2008 crash was prevented from doing what it naturally would have and wiping away never-payable debts, has turned into a ticking bomb. The only question is when it will go off, not if, if the stagnation of the total size of the economy continues.

The last crisis saw America’s credit rating lowered from AAA to AA, an historic loss, and the beginning of significant decline in the power of the petro-dollar system. The next one seems likely to wipe both things out entirely, and then the US is “just another country”: if it prints money to service foreign debts it will then experience hyperinflation, in particular. It will be in the same situation as post-WWI Germany, in other words, bankrupt and owing a shit-ton of money, and we all know how that ended …

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
1 year ago

Hey, does anyone know how to get to the full article text here without paying or giving them your email address?

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-is-on-the-iron-throne-and-american-democracy-is-dead

The text just fades and stops in the middle of the first paragraph. Presumably you’re supposed to pay or register in some way to see more, but oddly I don’t see a login link. The usual bypass tricks (google cache, turning off CSS) don’t seem to work either.

How do I bypass this one?

Rabid Rabbit
Rabid Rabbit
1 year ago

@Surplus

The optimistic view of that is that if the economy crashes in, say, eight months, Trump loses his big argument that’s keeping the “I’m all right, Jack” assholes voting for him (as in, “Sure, he’s an idiot, but the economy’s fine, so what do I care”). Which might be enough to kill him in the mushy middle and lose him the election, as the Dems would get to play the “The economy only went well because Trump was riding on Obama’s coattails” card.

Moggie
Moggie
1 year ago

Never mind, war will take people’s minds off the state of the economy!

Kevin
Kevin
1 year ago

Incels and succubi, hmm, the practice of lucid dreaming comes to mind. And if they were away playing in their own subconscious, at least they wouldn’t be on the Internet or otherwise engaged in causing difficulties for other people.

Shadowplay
1 year ago

@Kevin

Having had the distinct displeasure of the odd peek into their subconcious, they’d probably turn out like Rimmer in Better than Life.

Anonymous
Anonymous
1 year ago

>>>>>Anonymous, there are numerous modern legal precedents for compensation for unpaid wages, workplace death, trauma, loss of property, discrimination, survivors benefits, etc.

Of course; and there well should be. You can get compensation for something I have wrongly done to you, and perhaps your children or family due to lost income or other harm. But I am quite sure you are not entitled to compensation from me due to something – here, slavery – that my great-great-great-grandfather *might* have done to your great-great-great-grandfather.

If you are, then virtually everybody owes everybody, since there isn’t a single group that hasn’t both caused *and* suffered historical outrages during the 150+ years since slavery ended.

Nequam
Nequam
1 year ago

Shorter Anonymous:
comment image

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
1 year ago

@ Anonymous

But I am quite sure you are not entitled to compensation from me due to something – here, slavery – that my great-great-great-grandfather *might* have done to your great-great-great-grandfather.

I won’t get into the broader debate about how the law seems to protect capital more than people; but there’s plenty of precedent for exactly that when it comes to property and money.

You might find it interesting to read up on things like ‘resulting’ and ‘constructive’ trusts; and ‘unjust enrichment’.

You may also wish to look at cases where the parties are “The Estate Of….” -v- “The Estate of….”

Catalpa
Catalpa
1 year ago

But I am quite sure you are not entitled to compensation from me due to something – here, slavery – that my great-great-great-grandfather *might* have done to your great-great-great-grandfather.

Wealth, privilege, opportunity, etc. is generational. Hypothetically, your great-great-grandparents got rich by exploiting slave labour, and they passed that money down to your great-grandparents, who were able to invest in education, nutritious food, preventative healthcare, business, etc, who passed those advantages onto your grandparents, then onto your parents, then onto you.

On the other hand, freed slaves had incredibly limited economic opportunities, employment opportunities, educational opportunities, etc, and generally lived in poverty. They weren’t able to afford to feed their children healthy food that would allow them to grow strong and healthy and smart. They weren’t able to afford preventative healthcare, which leads to more expensive and more dehabilitating health impacts further down the road. They weren’t able to afford education, and were blocked from any possible routes of political or economic power and influence. They were disproportionately targeted by the police and by bigots (but I repeat myself). Their children weren’t able to afford these things either, nor were their children, nor were their children. The cycle of poverty is almost impossible to escape.

So while you may not have actively done anything to harm the descendants of enslaved people, you have benefited from the harm that was committed generations ago. And the descendants are still suffering from the harm that was inflicted on their ancestors generations ago.

Reparations aren’t about punishing *you*. They’re about making things better for the people who are suffering. You know, repairing things. And I don’t think it’s too much to ask that the people who benefit from that committed harm are asked to chip in to try to make things better. Or, you know, even if you aren’t the descendant of slave owners, it’s not too much to ask you to help out your fellow human beings anyhow.

EDIT- oops, ninja’d by David. Thanks for banning the arse!

Lainy
Lainy
1 year ago

@Catalpa

I wouldn’t bother explain it. People like Anonymous hate the fact that some white people feel guilty or empathetic about the horrors of slavery and such, so they would like to keep the system that kept black people in oppression but would like it if white people didn’t have to feel any guilt or shame about it. They would also like to pretend its all in the past and the wealth of slavery didn’t effect the way white people and black people are treated today. In other words he’s blind by his own bigotry he can’t bother to look over.

A Different Anonymous
A Different Anonymous
1 year ago

@Catalpa

While I agree with the bulk of your argument, there’s a couple of things that are eating at me.

The first one: would any amount of reparations (should they ever happen) actually be enough to reverse or even mitigate the damage that has occurred since the end of slavery? A simple payment and the equivalent of a “we’re sorry” will do next to nothing about the systems that actually enforce the generational wealth, privilege, etc. At best, it will delay their effects for a generation or two but the root causes of the matter will remain untouched and act to undermine any gains that might be made as a result of said reparations.

The second one is a bit more philosophical, but bear with me. In my eyes, the concept of reparations is akin to saying that you can put a price on generations of suffering- and that by throwing money at it then all the problems resulting from said suffering will be undone at all levels. Perhaps my interpretation is off, but I can’t shake that sense that it trivializes the pains of slavery nevertheless. And while a formal apology would be commendable, would it be enough to prevent something similar from happening again?

cornychips
cornychips
1 year ago

At one point i think mammoth had 3 diff commenters that were anonymous. Its fucking annoying when they are in the same thread.

Catalpa
Catalpa
1 year ago

@Lainy

Thanks! I do know that there’s plenty of folks that believe that “everyone is equal now and saying otherwise is all about making white people feel guillty!!” shit, and I have absolutely no hope invested in my post changing the mind of the dickhead trolls I argue with. Mainly I just do it because it may be educational for lurkers and other folks.

Hippodameia
Hippodameia
1 year ago

Thank you David!!!!!

littlem
littlem
1 year ago

“Incels deserve reparations just as much as African Americans,” galaxy-brained incel proclaims

Oh.
my.
GOD.

A Different Anonymous
A Different Anonymous
1 year ago

@Catalpa

I agree with most of that, but I do have to wonder: even if reparations were approved and funded (from where, I can’t say), will monetary compensation even come close to leveling the playing field? I can’t shake the feeling that it would merely patch the problem over for a generation or two before all the systemic issues undo most or even all of the gains that could be made as a result of reparations. The only way to repair things here is to tear down the entire rotting system and start over from the beginning, I fear.

Plus, call me a bit off but the idea that simple repayment for generations of suffering will make it all better doesn’t feel right to me. It’s almost like trying to put a price tag on the aftereffects of slavery.

Snowberry
Snowberry
1 year ago

Off Topic:

I may be the only one here who still reads Sinfest. After the comic took a turn to the SWERF, it took me a long time to figure out the subtext (I thought that it was just against sex slavery) which is somewhat embarassing as a former sex worker. Even so, I still check it out every once in awhile, because there are still things which keep it from being a complete trashpile.

However, now that this subject seems to be completely played out, Ishida (the creator) seems to be going in an equally disturbing new direction, and he’s not even being subtle. But as I’m kind of bad at reading into subtext I want to make sure I’m interpreting it right. Short version:

A girl follows some zombies into a pharmacy to see what they’re up to. A zombie pharmacist throws pills at her, saying “girl pills!” When she asks why she would want them, he points to a sign detailing masculine and feminine stereotypes. She reacts in disgust. He responds “you want to be a boy then? boy pills!”, throws more pills at her, and wanders off.

(Also, the non-pharmacist zombies are seen chugging down pills.)

Then a boy sees a barbie doll lying be the street, remarks “cute”, and then is immediately kidnapped by orderlies and sent to “gender correction camp”. Upon failing to be convincingly tough/macho at boy’s camp, he gets transferred to the girl’s camp.

(Also, the boy’s gender correction camp has images of swimwear models plastered on various objects.)

It seems like this is suggesting that society is pushing a return to a strict and fairly misogynous gender binary. And part of this is coercing children who don’t perfectly conform to that binary into transitioning. If so, the comic is likely taking a turn to the TERF as well.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Well, at least in better news, I’ve read that John Wick 3 has a non-binary character. This franchise has somehow completely passed me by, I’ve never seen one of these movies. But maybe I should.

Bakunin
Bakunin
1 year ago

@Snowberry
SWERFs and TERFs always go hand in hand. Never seen either that wasn’t the other as well

Rabid Rabbit
Rabid Rabbit
1 year ago

@Snowberry

I haven’t read Sinfest in years, but let’s be honest, Ishida was never subtle, and he got even less subtle after he discovered feminism. I don’t think I’ve ever felt as preached at in a comic, even when I agreed with him. Which is a pity, because he was actually kind of funny sometimes, like with the little old granny literally giving cookies to men who’d done one good thing.

Still, in a clear depiction of YMMV, I found it turned into a trashpile years ago.

Citerior Motive
Citerior Motive
1 year ago

Agree with Bakunin: that’s definitely aimed primarily at trans people, a retelling of the ‘transness is a plot by Big Pharma to sell lots of unnecessary pills’* TERF conspiracy theory.

* This is undermined, of course, by the fact that HRT costs next to nothing compared to brand new drugs that they can put a patent on and sell for ludicrous amounts of money.

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
1 year ago

@wwth:

I’ve never seen one of these movies. But maybe I should

… pass.

Seriously, they’re a 2-hour shootout with LESS plot depth than Paris Hilton’s autobiography

A Different Anonymous
A Different Anonymous
1 year ago

Whoops, it seems I posted one of my comments twice. My mistake, I thought it didn’t go through the first time for some reason.

Shadowplay
1 year ago

Agreeing with Weird Eddie – they’re mildly entertaining trash at best. Not the worst thing you’ll ever catch on TV, but not worth shelling out for a ticket.

Not that there’s anything wrong with a revenge fantasy – I’m a huge fan of Westlake’s Parker series – but there does have to be a bit of meat in the stew.

kupo
kupo
1 year ago

@A Different Anonymous
Name changes tgrow ypu into moderation temporarily.

@Snowberry
No question about it, that’s not just TERFy but anti-medication (probably with an ableist slant that mental illness and/or chronic conditions aren’t properly treated by taking medications and only yoga or whatever will truly fix you).

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
1 year ago

Now the fucking troglodytes are trying to stop survivors from reclaiming their scars:

https://www.whas11.com/article/news/proposed-kentucky-law-bans-tattoos-on-scarred-skin/417-8299258e-b3bd-49c8-ab05-482f635fa743

When will the people rise up en masse and put a stop to all this Repug evil?

Bakunin
Bakunin
1 year ago

@Surplus
Wow. Not even coming up with a fig leaf of “health reasons”.

@Citerior Motive
Yeah, I pay (or paid, I hit my deductible) ~$80 USD for a three month supply. Compare to patented drugs, and I think the conspiracy fails as far as pushing HRT for profit

Big Titty Demon; formerly Lurker LXVII
Big Titty Demon; formerly Lurker LXVII
1 year ago

@Moggie

Never mind, war will take people’s minds off the state of the economy!

By temporarily boosting the economy… one of the market fluctuations Surplus mentioned was a huge drop right after the latest China-trade-war news, followed the very next day by an even bigger rally when… Trump started implying there would be war with Iran. The military-industrial complex is huge and, it feels at times, unstoppable.

Sly Fawkes
1 year ago

Dear Incel:
You have “absolutely nothing good in your lives” because you are complete pusbags of humanity with terrible attitudes. Maybe if you stopped behaving like walking trash fires, people might not treat you like trash. Just sayin’.

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
1 year ago

@ Surplus:

re: tattoo ban

FYI, your link throws up a spamwindow. The ban smacks of “evangelicals gone wild” to me. I think we’re seeing and will see a lot of this shit, especially in the Southeast at least until we get rid of the dompster-fire-in-chief

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
1 year ago

Regarding the “Secret cabal of Jews financed by the Lost Treasure of the Knights Templar”, I got that from some “discussions” with trumplings about the Illuminati, according to some strains of fantasy, that’s how they’re financed.

Apparently it’s been picked up by some igno-right to explain how Soros can be financing all he’s supposed to be financing and not be broke by February of ’17

The treasure, you understand, is quite endless…. It’s like arguing with a 5-year-old;. every argument is met with ever-more fantastic strains of nonsense.

Cyborgette
Cyborgette
1 year ago

@Weird Eddie

Probably one of the best known things people cover up with tattoos are scars from breast cancer mastectomies. I don’t think this is a coincidence – it strikes me as very specific, calculated, and deliberately cruel misogyny, and I doubt cis men harmed by the ban are being considered more than (acceptable) collateral damage.

Snowberry
Snowberry
1 year ago

@Bakunin, Criterior Motive, Kupo: Thanks. I wasn’t sure, and wanted to run it by people here.

@Rabid Rabbit: To be fair, I didn’t see it so much as preachy as a mildly humorous look at an alternate reality where mystical forces are literally woven into the social fabric. It wasn’t until late last year, when the on-and-off SWERF storyline reached a fever pitch, that I started to realize what it was really saying, and that this may actually be a heavy-handed metaphor for what Ishida really believes. Again, I can be pretty bad with subtext, plus I don’t read webcomic message boards. At this point, I’m seriously considering tossing it into the trash heap, as I can’t help but wonder if the seemingly not-terrible parts are somehow also terrible and I just haven’t figured out how yet.

@Surplus: Oh, come on. Is this another step in the seemingly overall agenda of stripping away bodily autonomy from everyone except *some* white men, fetuses, and corpses?

Diptych
Diptych
1 year ago

Re: reparations – would they actually paid personally by every white person to every descendent of slaves? I would have thought it would be more efficient for the government to pay them, or something like that.

Re: TERFs: the worst part of the “allowing trans people to exist reinforces strict gender binaries” argument is how obviously untrue it is. Trans folks who don’t at all conform to any sort of patriarchal binary are commonplace. But they keep telling the same old lies…

A Different Anonymous
A Different Anonymous
1 year ago

@Diptych

Well, the money has to come from somewhere, though I note that if it comes from government funds (yeah, like this administration would even consider that) then essentially it’ll be forcing them to pay for their own reparations (via taxes and the like)- which of course makes no sense.

On the other hand, having every white person pay makes no sense either given how a sizeable fraction would have been descended from immigrants who wouldn’t have benefited from slavery themselves…and trying to figure out which people who are alive now did have ancestors who benefited from slavery would be a difficult task in itself.

Cyborgette
Cyborgette
1 year ago

@A Different Anonymous

No, white immigrants still benefited from slavery, albeit less directly. As do all white people currently living in the US, to be frank – prison labor is a form of slavery and mostly targets Black people.

And yeah IMO the biggest burden for reparations should definitely be on wealthy white people. Our wealth is by definition stolen (like all individual and inherited wealth IMO) and our goal should be to make that inherited advantage eventually disappear.

Nikki the Bluth Wannabe
Nikki the Bluth Wannabe
1 year ago

@A Different Anonymous

The first one: would any amount of reparations (should they ever happen) actually be enough to reverse or even mitigate the damage that has occurred since the end of slavery? A simple payment and the equivalent of a “we’re sorry” will do next to nothing about the systems that actually enforce the generational wealth, privilege, etc. At best, it will delay their effects for a generation or two but the root causes of the matter will remain untouched and act to undermine any gains that might be made as a result of said reparations.

You have a good point. We definitely need to tackle the existing systems: either change them to lessen their bias or remove them and replace them with new, fairer systems. However, as I understand it (Mammotheers who know more about the study of reparations than me, feel free to correct me if there’s anything I missed here), that’s more of a long-term solution; so reparations as either a short-term solution or a supplemental solution alongside systematic change would be a good idea.

solecism
solecism
1 year ago

Actually, I really like the arguments Ta-Nehisi Coates laid out in that famous The Atlantic article. Reparations could be to people still living (or immediate family, I suppose) who have been directly harmed by such things as redlining and land seizures (in our lifetime) because the paper trail for such injustices is a goddamned megahighway even in the face of evidence tampering/destruction. It would definitely be a government program rather than levied onto individual white citizens. And I have seen proposals for such things as free college tuition for black students across the board. The Movement for Black Lives lays it all out quite well:
https://policy.m4bl.org/reparations/