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Reddit TERFs discover that one of the STEM School shooters may be trans, and it goes about as well as you’d expect

Collage of comments from the GenderCritical subreddit

By David Futrelle

Some TERFs — trans-exclusionary radical feminists — seem nearly as obsessed with “trans crime” as Trump is with “immigrant crime,” and as Der Sturmer once was with “Jewish crime.”

And so, when the GenderCritical subreddit – Reddit’s main hangout for TERFs — discovered that one of the STEM School students who shot up a Colorado high school earlier this week is reportedly a trans boy, it’s not surprising that the discussion there quickly turned ugly. And more than a little weird.

TERFs favorite targets are trans women — whom they describe, in their own perverse jargon, as TIMs, or Trans-Identified Males. But it turns out that TERFs are nearly as happy to attack trans men and boys — or so-called “TIFs” — even though “TIFs” are, in the minds of the TERFs anyway, still “biological females.”

Some “GenderCritical” Redditors blamed the shootings in part on the testosterone injections and/or surgery they assumed that Alec McKinney, the alleged trans shooter, had gotten, although there’s no evidence so far showing that McKinney, a juvenile, has had any sort of hormone therapy much less gone under the knife.

“Yeah turns out doing irreparable [harm] to your body and turning up your aggression right away leads to instability,” wrote a commenter called norris528e.

Several commenters shared allegedly true stories of trans men they know who turned violent after starting their transition.

“This might … be anecdotal.” wrote someone calling themselves NecessarySpeed4,

but one of my sister friends was a lesbian whose girlfriend decided to transition to male. Pretty much right away, the new “boyfriend” started acting like an asshole.

My sisters friend was struggling with to support “his” decision to be a man and this “boyfriend” according to my sister displayed signs of male chauvinism making crude and sexual remarks towards other women and had started a habit of slapping women on their asses a few months later “he” left his girlfriend because she was a transphobe who didn’t fully support “him”

There was dark talk about the pernicious effects the “trans cult” — and/or the “kweer kult” — allegedly has on the psyche of “transdelusional” young people who, as TERFs see it, decide to become trans.

“Being in the thrall of a cult can and routinely DOES lead people to commit acts of violence,” declared GCMadamXX.

That’s what ISIS is, and the KKK and Boko Haram etc etc etc. Many cults have lured members into self harm or mass suicide. A horrific cult in Russia required women to cut off their breasts and men to be castrated. Sound familiar?

You seriously think a cult that encourages teens to castrate themselves is not a danger to wider society? Is not churning out sociopaths? Is not ATTRACTIVE to sociopaths?

We can give you a long list of violent acts committed by people in the thrall of the trans cult. A long and growing list.

Sosososhocking implied that the shooting was the inevitable result of violent rhetoric from trans activists.

Trans people: fuck terfs we should kill terfs

Also trans people: shoots up a school

Everyone but rad fems: surprisedpikachu.jpg

Some managed to convince themselves that the other alleged shooter, identified as 18-year-old Devon Erickson, might actually be a secret trans woman still living as male — based largely on his hair color and his not-exactly-macho aesthetic.

A commenter called libfem_decline posited that Erickson is “(potentially) a closeted TIM. At least, he’s got purple hair and furry tattoos.”

GCMadamXX similarly suggested that

The adult shooter is likely in the trans cult too. In March he posted on Instagram with the hashtags #tumblrgirl #aestheticgirl #cuteaesthetic #pastelgrunge #softgrunge #softaesthetic . Also he either wrote or tattooed an acronym on his arm that has to do with furries. Unfortunately he was definitely part of the rainbow kids crowd. There’s a selfie overlaid with the Pride flag.

This one could be a wild ride, ladies. Buckle up.

While few in the discussion seemed to have any trouble attacking trans men, there were some who couldn’t help reverting back to the primary TERF obsession, the alleged villainy of trans women — sorry, “Trans-Identified Males.”

“I’m actually surprised we don’t see more TiM mass shooters,” wrote Mountains_beyond, “as so many fit the “aggrieved narcissist” profile.”

While libfem_decline thinks trans women get too much “attention and validation and special snowflake fuzzies” to become alienated enough to shoot up a school. other Reddit TERFs are predicting a coming wave of trans women mass shooters.

“[J]ust wait,” warned coppershrike.

Many of the more insane TIMs will go out shooting as they age and reality starts becoming something they cannot deny.

Jelliknight agreed:

Imagine when society wakes up and all their documents are set back to MALE and they’re banned from womens spaces and no longer have the right to sue for being called a man. That’s when we’ll start to see a lot more TIM shooters.

You almost get the impresstion that Jelliknight is looking forward to the coming age of “TIM” violence — much in the way that misogynistic Men Going Their Own Way look forward to the the social collapse they think feminism is about to bring about, because in the ensuing chaos, MGTOWs think, men will be able to put women back in their place.

Jelliknight seems similarly eager to put trans people “back in their place,” no matter how painful and messy this process could get.

That’s a rather disquieting response to news of a school shooting.

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Cyborgette
Cyborgette
1 year ago

This, plus a Constitutional crisis, in one day. I’ll be over here curled up on the floor trying not to throw up.

JFC though, I really will never get over how cis people are like “But not all men!!!” when cis men are caught being horrible, but as soon as a trans person turns out to be awful it’s like “ZOMG I knew it they’re all monsters!!!” Please grow some nuance before your scapegoating bullshit kills us all, thanks.

Weatherwax
Weatherwax
1 year ago

I’m so sorry for the trans community for the shit storm engulfing them. The fact that they’ve faced and survived many before is no guarantee and doesn’t make this one any easier.

I’m not a perfect ally, but I’m working at it. I need to read more stuff so I can deal with sisters who’ve been sucked in by a particular anti-trans rhetoric. Sport seems to be the issue of the day.

I keep coming back to the fact that, the longer cis women and trans siblings argue, the more the patriarchy wins. When we have a fair playing field (literally), that will be fine. But right now, why do the authorities focus on hormonal advantage, but ignore class, race, facility, nutrition, educational and any manner of other privileges?

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
1 year ago

Shit…

Some “leftists” believe that human rights has a termination point… and it seems to be “right after I get mine”

Jezebel has a cover story (no link, I’m on my fone) about TERFs allying with right-wing repugnicants, xian fundies and other dregs… apparently they feel their rights are strongly supported enough that the fascists won’t be able to destroy them after they’re no longer useful to them….

Me, I’ve seen all three Twilight Zone series (oops, 3 of 4)… I KNOW what happens when you make a pact with the devil.

Tripoli
Tripoli
1 year ago

“I’m actually surprised we don’t see more [trans women] mass shooters,” wrote Mountains_beyond, “as so many fit the “aggrieved narcissist” profile.”

I wonder if it’s because they… don’t.

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
1 year ago

@ Tripoli:

It’s NOT the “aggrieved narcissist” profile that shoots up schools, it’s the “ENTITLED narcissist” profile.

Alexis Filth
1 year ago

I’m trans, and have had to deal with so many fuckin Terves it’s obscene (I’m currently serving a 7 day Twitter suspension for them mass reporting a gif I posted claiming I was being violent, which, uh, the gif wasn’t even violent or aimed at anyone)
They’re 100% projecting. All the talk about the “trans cult” is them projecting their own cultish behavior.

Amy E
Amy E
1 year ago

@Weird Eddie, is this the one you mean?

https://jezebel.com/the-unholy-alliance-of-trans-exclusionary-radical-femin-1834120309

Also, totally unsurprised, albeit still horrified at the ability of humans to abuse our privilege, even when we have known what it means to be lacking it. One struggle against oppression may be different from another, but surely we can recognise and empathise with others facing the obstacles they do.

Troubelle: Moonbeam Malcontent, Bard of the New Movement
Troubelle: Moonbeam Malcontent, Bard of the New Movement
1 year ago

Almost forgot that we’re livin’ in the U.S. of A.
But what can I say
It seems we’re all gonna get our lead injection someday

And it’s never too soon for the gagglers to make up their mind
Against humankind
Who know they’re not what they’ve been assigned

Everyone needs their scapegoat
Every can needs its trash
When haywire notions can’t stay afloat
They do their best to clash
Every human’s a human
And humans have a chance to be
A bystander, saint, or a demon
It’s just the lottery
‘Course, it ain’t totally random
But correlation ain’t causation’s make
Some people are assholes sans abandon
No matter the phenotype they take

Wakin’ up in a world that I know’s swiftly fadin’ away
No price I can pay
And they won’t give me a word to say

The truer conflict looms above, I know it ain’t hard to see
It ain’t a mystery
Why the hell you gotta pin it on my friends and me?

Would you make the same claim about cis people?
Cuz y’all sure got your kicks!
One down here makes all of us despicable
And I can’t say the inverse without gettin’ licks
Every human’s a human
And one fault shouldn’t mean a burden borne
By everyone else doin’ what they’re doin’
Do you folks face the very same scorn
That’s faced for one of your own kind
Or is it just my friends and me?
Just the same double standard
That’s infected humanity
We got better places to be
And I still say,

don’t look at me

kupo
kupo
1 year ago

@Troubelle
The new gravatar looks good! I remember you changed it a few months back but couldn’t remember if it was this same one (I know it was some of your pixel art, but you have so many great ones! 😄). Either way, I like it!

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

So, according to TERF logic, trans men are violent because they’ve been turned into men by the trans cult, but trans women are violent because they’re also men?

Totally consistent and legit!

Ellesar
Ellesar
1 year ago

If it wasn’t clear that these are radfems a lot of this would fit right in with what misogynist right wing extremists say about transpeople.

Funny how that happens!

For the record I am a radical feminist. Old school, so all I really mean by it is that for me patriarchy is the problem : a violent and untenable system.

I can see how TERFs have come to be, but I hope there are many more radical feminists who are trans friendly.

Phaos
1 year ago

I just don’t remotely have anything to say about any of that bullshit they’re slinging. It’s just, god damn.

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
1 year ago

@ Amy:

That’s the one, thank. I guess TERFs don’t do intersectionality, cuz they sure have pigeonholed trans people into one big monolith of “trans people are….”

Bakunin
Bakunin
1 year ago

I haven’t skipped many posts here, but this is too much.

casta
casta
1 year ago

Weatherwas says: “I’m so sorry for the trans community for the shit storm engulfing them.”

I am sorry for the family who lost their son, the other injured children, and the fact that children in America are now performing active shooter drills in schools and living in constant fear of violence. This is not a trans/cis issue, it’s a violence issue. These fringe “feminists” are speaking gibberish and don’t deserve any form of acknowledgement.

Crip Dyke
Crip Dyke
1 year ago

@Weird:

There’s this Marxist-feminist group in the UK and a number of other places (it started in Italy), Wages for Housework. A friend of mine was involved in some political work there for a while and WfH would show up to all the same demonstrations that she would, but instead of providing support to the cause for which everyone else was protesting, they used the gathering to tell everyone how they were all wrong and WfH was all right and the only true path to glorious liberation was through WfH.

Needless to say, “intersectional” wouldn’t have begun to describe them even if Crenshaw had coined the term by then (this was 85/86, still a couple years away from intersectionality making it into the feminist lexicon).

In general, my experience with Marxist-feminism is that they don’t do intersectionality well, but WfH was the quintessential example (at least for my friend). Terese appears to provide evidence for the proposition that this failure continues.

But it’s not only Marxist-feminists who don’t do intersectionality well. TERFs are, as you say, extremely bad at it as well.

Lainy
Lainy
1 year ago

I “love” how they just assume that this man must have had testosterone injections or the top surgery or anything like that when your 18 you can barely afford gas and food. How the fuck are you suppose to afford something insurance won’t cover. Most young trans people don’t have hormones or surgery as even an option. Their bullshit just pisses me off so much.

Yamara
Yamara
1 year ago

A horrific cult in Russia required women to cut off their breasts and men to be castrated. Sound familiar?

Someone’s slip is showing.

There’s been way too much of this dividing to not be at the hand of a conqueror.

Seriously, eliminationists are on the march, and they intend the same fate for the trans and radical feminist communities. It’s entirely in their playbook to stoke an unnecessary fight between their enemies.

Ooglyboggles
Ooglyboggles
1 year ago

Oh boi I sure can’t wait to see Terfs exploit the traumatized and the dead to harm trans people /s

Anonymous
Anonymous
1 year ago

But I thought these guts were *for* shooting up schools, at least when “incels” do it. What’s the matter, they fear competition?

Catalpa
Catalpa
1 year ago

So, according to TERF logic, trans men are violent because they’ve been turned into men by the trans cult, but trans women are violent because they’re also men?

I assume this logic functions similar to the racist “just one drop” principle. Anyone who is exposed to maleness is contaminated, and those who engage in dangerous practices to spread the contamination beyond the “properly defined natural order” by miscegenation straying outside of the rigid gender binary will cause the downfall of society itself.

Though, honestly, I doubt that TERFs have probably thought much further ahead than just hating trans people and taking great glee in hurting them, even when being incredibly callous to the victims of an act of horrible violence.

Gijoel
Gijoel
1 year ago

@Yamara. She’s referring to Skoptsy movement. It followers believed that the original sin was the result of Adam and Eve having sex. I doubt they would be the least bit welcoming to trans and intersexual people.

Cat Mara
Cat Mara
1 year ago

@Catalpa: I think you’re right on that “one drop rule” observation. The bio-essentialism of the TERFs’ worldview is so extreme, it leads to an obsession with genetic purity that is indistinguishable from racism. Look how many of them include “XX” in their forum names: the significance the TERFs imbue it with, it might as well be a sig rune or the adoption of an obviously “Nordic” ‘nym.

(Of course, I imagine few, if any, of them have actually ever been genetically tested so they have no way of knowing whether they’re XX, X0, XXX, XY-with-androgen-insensitivity or any other karyotype found in humans with female external sexual characteristics; but “scientific” racists of any stripe are usually ignorant of the science they claim to profess)

Cyborgette
Cyborgette
1 year ago

@Cat Mara

Oh the racism connections go a lot deeper than that. There’s a reason a lot of these folks are also the ones demanding that Caster Semenya be put on antiandrogens. There’s a reason most TERFs are white.

Analysis of reactionary movements in feminism is lost without analysis of racism – the same notions of purity and protectionism that see the “Black virility” as the enemy of white women, inform the view of “the trans phallic nature” or whatever as the enemy of (white, pure) cis women. In this view it’s obvious how they wind up allying with white conservatives.

Cindy
Cindy
1 year ago

I wonder what Lady Mondegreen is doing right now. Probably right in the middle of the screeching TERF mob.

Lainy
Lainy
1 year ago

@Cyborgette.

I’m sorry, but what is a antiandrogens?

Cyborgette
Cyborgette
1 year ago

A gentle reminder for everyone, since it’s sadly often necessary: awful people being women never gives us licence to use misogyny against them. Ever.

@Lainy

Drugs that suppress the production or effects of testosterone. The first line one in the US is spironolactone, which would be a pretty awful thing for an athlete to be on – it’s also a potassium sparing diuretic and a weak corticosteroid, so it can cause dehydration, electrolyte balance issues, and for a few lucky people, Cushingoid effects and withdrawal symptoms.

TERF Watcher
TERF Watcher
1 year ago

Cindy:

I wonder what Lady Mondegreen is doing right now. Probably right in the middle of the screeching TERF mob.

You are correct. Mondegreen usually hangs out at Butterflies & Wheels, the blog of the TERF Ophelia Benson who left freethoughtblogs in anger after her bigotry was exposed.

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
1 year ago

Drugs that suppress the production or effects of testosterone. The first line one in the US is spironolactone, which would be a pretty awful thing for an athlete to be on – it’s also a potassium sparing diuretic and a weak corticosteroid, so it can cause dehydration, electrolyte balance issues, and for a few lucky people, Cushingoid effects and withdrawal symptoms.

(looks up after spending 1/2 hour with google, wikipedia and web-md…)

I LOVE this place!

@ Cindy:

I wonder what Lady Mondegreen is doing right now

Lady Mondegreen, a blogger, or ??? I googled, couldn’t find anything other than misheard song lyrics (… sweet dreams are made of cheese… who am I to diss a brie….)

Catalpa
Catalpa
1 year ago

@Weird Eddie

Lady Mondegreen was a former member of the commentariat here, until she started spouting TERF talking points some months back and got banned.

Catriona Faolain
Catriona Faolain
1 year ago

I mean if course they’re surprised there aren’t more trans shooters: these are the same people who were physiognomically convinced Nasim Aghdam was trans. Because it turns out TERFs are also racists.

Vince
Vince
1 year ago

Ugh. Just when you think it can’t get worse

Also, small point of clarification: the STEM School isn’t a high school but a k-12 institution. Source: I live up the road from it.

TB Tabby
TB Tabby
1 year ago

These two articles, back to back, are a clear indication that incels and TERFs are two sides of the same vile sexist coin.

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
1 year ago

@ Catalpa, Cindy:

Researched Lady M, after reminder, I remember the “beating sexbots” thread, and… so, yeah….

Something I have learned in my travels here and in other ether-feminist spaces is, I do not get to voice an opinion on the lived experience of those whose experience I have not lived. For me, that’s literally every oppressed person except McWasp males… we are oppressed (/s), but our oppression is minimal and really not worthy of discussion here

I dunno if this is acceptable or not. One of the points Mme. Mondegreen attempted to make was:

There is no human right to be seen by others as you wish to be seen.

I disagree. Actually, I see the sum total of all human rights as resulting in the right to be seen as one wishes to be seen.

Cat Mara
Cat Mara
1 year ago

Back when I was on Twitter, I think I remember one of the trans women I was following there mentioning taking spironolactone. The side-effects sounded vile.

The racial component of the Caster Semenya case can’t be emphasised enough– it was only when it was explicitly pointed out to me did it occur how many (all?) of the athletes targeted by these allegations are women of colour…

Ellesar
Ellesar
1 year ago

Giving this some more thought I have encountered many ‘extreme’ feminists, and those on this branch do tend to be pretty awful to women as well.

Crip Dyke reminded me there was also a ‘Wages Due Lesbians’ group associated with the Wages Due Housework. They truly were fringe dwellers. I Don’t know for sure but I think that they would have been TERF too.

But I am defo not suggesting that ⚢ are more likely to be TERF. I ran a lesbian group years ago and we had a large majority vote to welcome trans women.

Button
Button
1 year ago

TERFs: This trans person who I refuse to admit is a man shot up a school because of all the extra testosterone in [his] system!

Also TERFs: I’m surprised that trans people who I refuse to admit are women don’t shoot things up more!

How much testosterone is in someone’s body matters when the person was AFAB but not when they were AMAB apparently?

NelC
NelC
1 year ago

he’s got purple hair and furry tattoos

Sure signs of Trans status. [/snark]

Katamount
Katamount
1 year ago

Nope, can’t deal with this nonsense today. Just waiting for the work day to be over so I can get to High Park to see the blooming Sakura trees. Granted, it’ll likely be a zoo, but it wouldn’t be High Park without it.

Speaking of, I find myself going to historical sites just to remind myself just that there is a normal to be found out there and that not every bit of history has been rewritten and gaslit by bad-faith actors. It is interesting that there is a through-line of class conflict between the various city museum sites. For instance, John Howard who built Colborne Lodge was a patron of the Family Compact (read: the 1%), while his rival David Gibson of the Gibson House was a supporter of William Lyon Mackenzie (of Mackenzie House), who opposed the Family Compact at every turn. So some of these museums belonged to Reformers (Gibson and Mackenzie) and some to supporters of the British Crown (Howard and Montgomery).

As an aside for Toronto locals, the Sakura trees at High Park reached peak bloom this morning. They’ll only be around for 3-10 days, so check it out while they last!

Nowherepants
Nowherepants
1 year ago

TERFs are mostly just bitter old baby boomer hags desperate for attention. Also, why is it that TERFs fit the “ugly feminist” stereotype so well, eh? 🤔

Not dismissing David for calling them out on their bullshit, but sometimes I wonder if they are using this kind of notoriety to their advantage.

As for their tacit alliance with right-wing extremists, that suggests a lot of sexual frustration and daddy issues(they desperately want to get nailed by strong, dominant, alpha males and crave for a trad lifestyle but are in denial about this).

Cyborgette
Cyborgette
1 year ago

@Nowherepants

Fuck off with your misogyny please. I’m also one of those “ugly feminists”, and my sisters are the ones who take the backlash every time some pompous bro does what you’re doing.

Go read my last post. And then read it again.

kupo
kupo
1 year ago

Also, why is it that TERFs fit the “ugly feminist” stereotype so well, eh? 🤔

Why do you fit the disgusting misogynist stereotype so well?

As for their tacit alliance with right-wing extremists, that suggests a lot of sexual frustration and daddy issues(they desperately want to get nailed by strong, dominant, alpha males and crave for a trad lifestyle but are in denial about this).

Please leave your gross fantasies about women’s sexual desires out of this. I don’t want to defend TERFs or anything but absolutely nothing points to this and it’s just a way for you to wedge sex into a discussion where it doesn’t belong.

P.S. TERFs are misogynists. They are NOT feminists.

Lainy
Lainy
1 year ago

Nowherepants

You crossed the line so far your 4 miles away from it. that entire post with misogynistic and disgusting. Not to mention inappropriate. You can disagree and denounce TERFS without going into misogynists tropes. I don’t want to defend TERFS either but just like with a lot of women just because you don’t like them means you can be misogynistic about it. Just like it wouldn’t be right for a black man to threaten to rape a woman because she is racist.

Cyborgette
Cyborgette
1 year ago

sigh

TBH this is a thing that I see happen almost every time TERFism gets discussed in a public space, and I am very, very tired of it. No dudebros, I won’t give you ally cookies for being sexist creeps towards TERFs or anyone else. Not in my name. Get gone.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Most of population, whatever their gender, doesn’t meet conventional standards of beauty. You could call pretty much any group of people you don’t like ugly and be right according to rigid beauty standards. So, the way people in any particular group look means absolutely nothing.

Also, isn’t NowherePants one of the people who revealed himself as a troll by sympathizing with incels who are supposedly not enough for all the evil shallow women? Gotta love the double standard.

Cyborgette
Cyborgette
1 year ago

@WWTH

Yup, I’m pretty sure he is.

And I’m starting to wonder how many of the bros who do this are bad faith actors. I mean, if I were a reactionary who wanted to sow some chaos and make trans folk and their allies look bad…

Opsec: always worth thinking about.

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
1 year ago

@ nowhere:

To echo the comments of others, gee that was refreshing, I hope you can the same insightful analysis on other topics as well…. (/s)

Snowberry
Snowberry
1 year ago

I’ve been seeing commentary lately that TERFs are nascent-to-actual white supremacists, whose pathway to white supremacy is transphobia rather than racism, immigration, or antisemitism.

I’m not sure if that’s actually true, since few if any of them would take well to the idea of being reduced to breeding stock… unless that’s mostly just Andrew Anglin, and mainstream white supremacy somehow became moderately “white feminist” without my noticing. Still, there do seem to be similarities. The real question here being whether there’s an actual connection, or if it’s just shared traits and hatreds common to many groups of bigots.

contrapangloss
contrapangloss
1 year ago

Nowherepants, please gowearpants somewhere far, far away from here.

Thanks.

TERFs are awful due to their philosophy, not their physical attributes.

Bina
1 year ago

We can give you a long list of violent acts committed by people in the thrall of the trans cult. A long and growing list.

Thanks, but no thanks; that list is probably 99% bullshit anyway. I’d prefer that you FARTs just go fuck yourselves. Preferably someplace where there is no internet to observe you in the act.