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Aimee Terese responds to my post about her with warmed-over MRA talking points

Some things aren’t meant to be recycled

By David Futrelle

Australian podcaster and putative leftist Aimee Terese has annoyed a lot of people on Twitter with her bizarre attack on freelance journalist Talia Jane for going public with the gross DM she’d gotten from a male journalist, suggesting to Jane that she was so ugly that she should feel flattered that anyone would even “contemplate ejaculating on [her face].”

No, really.

Turns out that Terese is not quite as thick-skinned as she expects her targets to be, and she was evidently herself annoyed by the post I wrote yesterday about her anti-Talia-Jane tweetstorm.

First, she responded with a flurry of buzzwords:

https://twitter.com/aimeeterese/status/1125593613411348480

I have no idea what she’s going on about either.

Then, perhaps realizing that calling someone excessively “discursive” was not quite the killing rhetorical blow she had hoped it would be, she tried again:

Now this tweet I understand, because I have seen so many different variations of these, er, arguments used against me by so many Men’s Rights Activists over the years.

I’m a White Knight? I’ve certainly heard that before.

@FACEandLMS
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@DavidFutrelle  mangina incel feminist whiteknight beta virgin, check this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krsNcFQwsbc … You can't even date the women u defend!

And apparently when I’m not white knighting women I am “step[ping] on the necks of dissenting women” like Terese. Never mind that I only wrote about her because she viciously attacked a women for reporting apparent sexual harassment; clearly I’m being the hateful one here.

This, again, is the same sort of nonsense I’ve heard from MRAs every time I’m said anything critical about antifeminist women — often with a bogus “gatcha” attached: You say you’re a feminist, yet here you are criticizing a woman!

Fans of Cassie Jaye, the director of the Red Pill documentary, widely panned by feminists as a whitewash of the misogynistic Men’s Rights movement, tend to be the most enthusiastic about this particular rhetorical strategy. They also like to conflate writing about someone on a blog with harassment — just as Terese turned “mentioning someone in a blog post” into “stepping on someone’s neck.”

Gaylordio Felchero
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@gaylordiof
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Replying to @DavidFutrelle
@DavidFutrelle Your personal attack on @Cassie_Jaye shows you up as a thinly-veiled misogynist that is projectively splitting
@herbiemarcuse
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Replying to @DavidFutrelle
Filmmaker @Cassie_Jaye has accomplished interesting stuff in the real world.
Misogynist @DavidFutrelle sits on his computer all day raging.

Once wound up, Cassie Jaye fans — her white knights? — just can’t seem to stop. Last month, one of her admirers on Twitter demanded to know “how many lies about Cassie Jaye have you posted this morning?” At that point i hadn’t written a word about her for nearly two years.

Terese doesn’t just ape the rhetorical tricks of the MRAs; she also seems to agree with them about certain things. Or at least to agree with Jordan Peterson, something of an idol for many MRAs. Last year, as Terese reminded me yesterday, she took issue with my suggestion that incel forums, breeding grounds for violence and misery, should be shut down if possible.

Her solution to the incel problem? Aside from vague talk about ending capitalist alienation by ending capitalism itself, this is the only specific suggestion she offered:

 
Aimee Terese 
A creative, materially based strategy from the PLO could be instructive here:

Now, I don’t think she’s literally suggesting that every incel in the world be awarded an “attractive, eligible” Palestinian woman of his own; she later clarified that she had offered this suggestion “not as an answer in itself, but more as an example of creative thinking.”

But this “creative thinking” isn’t really so creative after all; it sounds an awful lot like Jordan Peterson’s “enforced monogamy” and/or economist Robert Hanson’s “sex redistribution,” ersatz “solutions” to “sexual inequality” that would require imposing some sort of sexual tyranny on the women of the world, some of whom would have to be cajoled or threatened or coerced into having sex with the sort of guy who thinks shooting up a mall is an appropriate response to not being able to get laid.

If you’re a socialist who sounds this much like an MRA, you really need to start rethinking your socialism.

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Scanisaurus
Scanisaurus
2 years ago

When I read the things this woman tweets, I’m picturing her comments being said by Serena Joy, but wearing one of those mass-produced Che Guevara T-shirts instead of her state-mandated blue dress.

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
2 years ago

Aimee’s ranting has a distinct overtone of “look at MEEEEEE!!!!! Talk about MEEEEEEE!!!”

As for your feminism being “entirely discursive”… well, “discursive” means “relating to discourse”, sooo I’m not seeing her point. It’s a ‘blog. It’s SUPPOSED to relate to discourse.

The bit about “marrying [incels] off to “Palestinian women”, on the other hand, REEKS of someone who genuinely agrees with that strategy. That or someone who really doesn’t think of Palestinian women as human beings.

And for the LOVE OF PETE, would you leave Cassie Jay ALONE!?!?!?!?!? You just wrote about her AGAIN, and the last time was only 2017!!!

Anonymous
Anonymous
2 years ago

I give her a week before she starts suggesting Stalin wasn’t as bad as people think.

And have you noticed that for all her talk, she directly benefits from a capitalist system in several different ways? Perhaps she should stop trying to dismantle the master’s house with the master’s tools if she wants to be taken seriously.

Oh, and as for my “creative thinking” on the incel problem: give them at least a full month of hard labor, it’ll force them to think about something other than themselves.

Crip Dyke
Crip Dyke
2 years ago

Futrelle’s brand of liberal maximalism is entirely discursive.

That word. I do not think it means what she thinks it means.

He thinks in idealistic terms of good and bad people,

Idealism is not “discursive”.

Theoretically, it’s possible to have discourse about idealism, but nothing in idealism is inherently discursive so this is not evidence of discursiveness and could never be!

of good and bad people,

Good/bad dichotomies are not “discursive”.

Theoretically, it’s possible to have discourse about such dichotomies, but nothing in good/bad dichotomies is inherently discursive so this is not evidence of discursiveness and could never be!

free floating feelings.

Free floating feelings are not “discursive”.

Moreover, they cannot possibly be discursive: discourse requires that you put those feelings into specific words. Once they are specifically described, they are no longer “free floating”.

that silencing speakers with bad ideas solves political problems.

Silence cannot possibly be discursive. Even assuming that this is a fair characterization of David’s views, this would prove that David’s work is anti-discursive.

It’s like the longer she talks, the less coherent she becomes.

Although I suppose that presupposes there to be at least some coherence when she first starts speaking on a topic. That premise might not be justified.

Lainy
Lainy
2 years ago

She’s like one of the mean girls from those really bad teen movies that get upset that the uglier girl she bullies has the gull to stand up for herself. Like really sugar, if you can’t take criticism about your disgusting behavior maybe keep that mouth of yours shut and sit on your hands.

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
2 years ago

@ Crip Dyke:

Very well analyzed!!

@ Lainy:

YOO ROCK!!

@ Anonymous:

she directly benefits from a capitalist system in several different ways

I’m noticing a number of women feminist ‘bloggers and, particularly yootoobers suddenly “coming to their senses” and beginning to write anti-feminist tripe. I can’t help but wonder if the “sense” they’re coming to is a sense of how the weblogosphere and especially the yootoobosphere reward their work — based on clicks, followers, and subscribers — which right-wing content seems to get a lot more of.

Aimee’s twitter-tantrum also focuses on another right-wing passion, answering an argument with insult. Whether Talia Jane should be grateful for the possibility of having her face c** upon is, first, not related to the discussion, and second, not for Aimee Therese to say.

Though it’s not the case in all dialog, I notice that leftists respond with evidence MUCH MORE OFTEN than rightists. Righties usually attack the physical attributes of their opponent, or attack the perceived education level, or (worst of ALL!!!) attack their sexuality.

Perhaps the right is loathe to use evidence because… evidence never supports their position…??? NAH, it’s because “anyone who studies a problem is an elitist intellectual, and elitist intellectuals can’t be trusted!!”

Victorious Parasol
2 years ago

I have a co-worker who’s a bit like this. She uses words incorrectly, is very defensive if you ask for clarification, and is very invested in being seen as Important. Dear FSM, is she invested in being seen as important.

I will rejoice the day she leaves the company. In my better moments, I wish she would realize how much unnecessary aggravation she spreads around and would fix herself. It’s hard work to get to those better moments sometimes.

I don’t understand that sort of person at all. I mean, I recognize the behavior, and understand the consequences, but I don’t see why anybody would choose to be that way. (Assuming it is a choice and not some other factor.)

Moggie
Moggie
2 years ago

Christ, it sounds like freshers’ week at the student union!

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
2 years ago

Shooting at a school in Denver.

Again….

I’m fucking running out of thoughts and prayers….

TheKND
TheKND
2 years ago

Vile person is all I can say about her. If people like that show up in the leftists spaces I hang around, they are usually kicked out very quickly (so are brocialists and violent assholes btw.).
Still, it shows that we have to keep our nest clean at all times. Bigger tents mean more place for clowns

personalpest
personalpest
2 years ago

As with all messianic white knights, he doesn’t give a fuck about feminism, about women, about our complexity & political heterogeneity.

“Which is why he’s spent almost a decade writing a blog about those exact subjects… hey, wait a minute…”

Seriously, David, always remember that there a lot of people who appreciate everything you’ve done with WHTM and your other writings.

P.S. I checked out Aimee Terese’s Twitter feed (no, David hasn’t “silenced” her yet), and she’s going further right with every post. When some asked her “You don’t find it weird that your reply guys are basically incels?”, she responded that “being lonely isn’t a crime, it’s an existential fact of life under shitty, alienating neoliberalism.” (If all incels were guilty of was “being lonely”, a lot of dead people would still be alive.) She’s also promoting a podcast about how Joe Biden and Elizabeth Warren are “politically far more alike than ppl suspect!” She’s headed for the center of the horseshoe at full speed.

JohnFrumDenver
JohnFrumDenver
2 years ago

Ban me again if you want, i had it coming, but let this comment through. Please.

This new horror in Denver was multiple assailants with semiautomatic pistols,
most likely with many pre loaded magazines. This is an entirely different threat profile than a single individual, with a long pump action shotgun, that the authorities are alerted to.

Such sad news. Awful. Just awful.

Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Intergalactic Meanie
Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Intergalactic Meanie
2 years ago

@Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie,

The bit about “marrying [incels] off to “Palestinian women”, on the other hand, REEKS of someone who genuinely agrees with that strategy. That or someone who really doesn’t think of Palestinian women as human beings.

Are we sure she was referring to just Palestinian women there, and not just women as a whole? Either way, it still wouldn’t be a solution to the problem of incel violence, since they only count the so-called HB8-10’s as ‘true women’. The guys who are ‘stuck’ with the 7’s and below are very likely to not only get mad about being cheated of ‘their due’ to a beautiful woman, but go on yet another shooting rampage to avenge this insult to their honor. And put society back to square one on how to stop the rampages again.

An Impish Pepper
An Impish Pepper
2 years ago

@Anonymous

And have you noticed that for all her talk, she directly benefits from a capitalist system in several different ways? Perhaps she should stop trying to dismantle the master’s house with the master’s tools if she wants to be taken seriously.

Oh, and as for my “creative thinking” on the incel problem: give them at least a full month of hard labor, it’ll force them to think about something other than themselves.

What you sound like

Also following up a “lol she probably likes Stalin” with a suggestion to send people to do hard labour is a little on the nose…

kobun37
kobun37
2 years ago

Aimee’s writing style reminds me of that immortal quote by W. C. Fields, ” If you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.”

Ooglyboggles
Ooglyboggles
2 years ago

So many five dollar words just to make a messy literary salad.

EverythingIsRidiculous
EverythingIsRidiculous
2 years ago

Liberal maximalism is liberalism with lots of knick-knacks, throw pillows and overstuffed furniture. Hope this clears things up.

Silly-bollocks
Silly-bollocks
2 years ago

Well, her tweets sure is a great way to expand my vocabulary despite being devoid of any intellectual content. Of course I could achieve the same results by reading the dictionary.

Crip Dyke
Crip Dyke
2 years ago

@kobun37:

My favorite WC Fields quote goes something like,

Once, my group, while on safari in Africa, discovered we had mislaid our corkscrew and for several days we had to live on nothing but food and water.

kupo
kupo
2 years ago

Either way, it still wouldn’t be a solution to the problem of incel violence, since they only count the so-called HB8-10’s as ‘true women’. The guys who are ‘stuck’ with the 7’s and below are very likely to not only get mad about being cheated of ‘their due’ to a beautiful woman, but go on yet another shooting rampage to avenge this insult to their honor. And put society back to square one on how to stop the rampages again.

And don’t forget how skewed their scale is, either. It’s not like 20% of women would score an 8 or higher; it’s probably more like 0.02%

Dreidl
Dreidl
2 years ago

So she’s a… bracialist?

Pseudonym
Pseudonym
2 years ago

“material based strategy”… so she’s literally calling women material goods? And she’s supposed to be an anti-capitalist feminist?

Great American Satan
2 years ago

Fucking hell what a grody bastard. Fake comrades get outta tha commune.

Catalpa
Catalpa
2 years ago

And have you noticed that for all her talk, she directly benefits from a capitalist system in several different ways?

Uh… We live in a capitalist system that requires us to engage with the exploitative mechanisms of capitalism in order to survive. Needing to earn money in order to, you know, eat, doesn’t mean that one can’t be in favor of transitioning to a better system.

Don’t get me wrong, Aimee is wrong in many, many other ways, but being a part of a system which is impossible to opt out of isn’t one of them.

Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
2 years ago

@David F.

Gaylordio Felchero says that you are

a thinly-veiled misogynist that is projectively splitting

Is this true?

Shadowplay
2 years ago

@Weird Eddie

Aimee’s ranting has a distinct overtone of “look at MEEEEEE!!!!! Talk about MEEEEEEE!!!”

She’s a Youtube babbler. Her entire LIFE is “look at meeeeee!!!”

Turan, Emissary of the Fly World
Turan, Emissary of the Fly World
2 years ago

I submit that W.C. Fields’s all-time greatest line is:

“It’s a funny old world. A man’s lucky if he gets out of it alive.” (from THE MAN ON THE FLYING TRAPEZE)

I am also fond of “Bringing a pie to a golf course! Why, that’s like bringing… something or other… to…somewhere or other.” (from “The Golf Specialist”)

bluecat
bluecat
2 years ago

“projectively splitting” sounds uncomfortable, and also likely to disturb the cats.

Lainy
Lainy
2 years ago

@Great American Satan

Soooooo is there like a Canadian Satan?

Cat Mara
Cat Mara
2 years ago

A favourite WC Fields quote of mine is, “what contemptible scoundrel stole the cork from my lunch?” 😄

Katamount
Katamount
2 years ago

I actually see this talking point a lot up here in the hinterlands of Canada too…

“Justin Trudeau is clearly a fake feminist because he dismissed Jody Wilson-Raybould, a WOMAN!!!”

I’ve got issues with Trudeau’s mushy brand of feminism, but JWR still strikes me as an opportunist who was bad at her job as Attorney General.

The irony is that is exactly the “identity politics” that these clowns always bag on about being terrible. “How can you say Candace Owens is a white nationalist? She’s BLACK!” “How can you say Ben Shapiro is a member of the alt-right? He’s JEWISH!” And so on and so forth….

Tripoli
Tripoli
2 years ago

Well, I read the article, and she wasn’t kidding about “materially-based”.

They traveled to Palestinian refugee camps, to PLO offices and associated organizations, and to the capitals of all Middle Eastern countries with large Palestinian communities. Systematically identifying the most attractive young Palestinian women they could find, they put before these women what they hoped would be an irresistible proposition: Your fatherland needs you. Will you accept a critical mission of the utmost importance to the Palestinian people? Will you come to Beirut, for a reason to be disclosed upon your arrival, but one decreed by no higher authority than Chairman Arafat himself? How could a true patriot refuse?

So approximately a hundred of these beautiful young women were brought to Beirut. There, in a sort of PLO version of a college mixer, boy met girl, boy fell in love with girl, boy would, it was hoped, marry girl. There was an additional incentive, designed to facilitate not just amorous connections but long-lasting relationships. The hundred or so Black Septemberists were told that if they married these women, they would be paid $3,000; given an apartment in Beirut with a gas stove, a refrigerator, and a television; and employed by the PLO in some nonviolent capacity. Any of these couples that had a baby within a year would be rewarded with an additional $5,000.

Both Abu Iyad and the future general worried that their scheme would never work. But, as the general recounted, without exception the Black Septemberists fell in love, got married, settled down, and in most cases started a family. To make sure that none ever strayed, the two men devised a test. Periodically, the former terrorists would be handed legitimate passports and asked to go to the organization’s offices in Geneva or Paris or some other city on genuine nonviolent PLO business. But, the general explained, not one of them would agree to travel abroad, for fear of being arrested and losing all that they had—that is, being deprived of their wives and children.

So, basically, not only was there additional (including monetary) incentive, they gave them families they could hold hostage.

That's a Moray
That's a Moray
2 years ago

I had only heard of “splitting” in the context of Borderline Personality Disorder, but apparently it’s a general thing that is just extremely common in BPD. So I can’t prove that Gaylordio Felchero is trying to say anyone who disagrees with him has a personality disorder, but I’m still suspicious.

Also splitting is about your opinions of other people so how do you do it projectively?

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
2 years ago

@ Silly-bollocks:

Of course I could achieve the same results by reading the dictionary.

You could achieve the same result by eating the dictionary and barfing

Aran Bloom
Aran Bloom
2 years ago

I am a long time reader, sometime donor and first time commenter. For starters, I applaud the work this site and its moderator does. I appreciate that you weed through oh so much negativity in the communities you monitor so that we don’t have to. I find myself with the need to comment so I can share something that only this community would understand (and see the humor in). To wit, I got my haircut yesterday. The gent who cut my hair was named Chad and the lady who shampooed my hair was named Stacy. I find this funny, but there is no way any one other than this group would actually understand why this was so funny to me.

Anyway, something on a lighter note from a supporter.

Carry on.

Amtep
Amtep
2 years ago

I submit that these MRA talking points are not “warmed over”, but just still warm from being held in an MRA’s sweaty fists.

ReductiveChaos
ReductiveChaos
2 years ago

[…]and that silencing speakers with bad ideas solves political problems.

I think the past four years have pretty thoroughly proven that “Give the Nazis a platform, surely everyone will see how bad their ideas are.” isn’t really a great strategy. Sure, maybe she’s not specifically thinking about the Nazis in that bit, but the Nazis are indicative of just how poorly too many people make decisions about whether an idea is good or bad.

So, while silencing speakers with bad ideas may not solve (many) political problems, it sure as hell can prevent certain ones from being (re)created.

Prith kDar
Prith kDar
2 years ago

Not that it really makes her remarks more intelligible, but I think the definition of “discursive” she was using was the primary one of “passing aimlessly from one subject to another; digressive; rambling,” rather than “relating to discourse,” or “proceeding by argument or reasoning rather than by intuition (archaic).” If you look at all his blog posts as one treatise, then yes, it could be seen as hopping around various subjects, but then who looks at blogs that way?

Anonymous
Anonymous
2 years ago

>>>>>>Oh, and as for my “creative thinking” on the incel problem: give them at least a full month of hard labor, it’ll force them to think about something other than themselves.

Two weeks of basic training would be better.

Savanah
Savanah
2 years ago

The MGTOW defenders aren’t really proficient in reading comprehension, I see. What lies were posted? Aimee really DID attack a woman for posting about sexual harassment! Lol

Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
2 years ago

@Aran Bloom – lolololol! I understand the sadness of a great joke that no one around you would understand without an hour of explaining, so I’m glad you were able to share it here!

Welcome, I think the welcome packages are on the right in a link, make sure you pick up your scented candles. The hard chairs might be on backorder, has anyone seen any recently?

*sits down while thinking*

HMMM. Y’know what… You can have mine.

*Stands back up*

😉

@Anonymous – I’d rather they weren’t given any sort of military training, please.

Lainy
Lainy
2 years ago

@Anonymous

If you think military training makes assholes not assholes your very sadly mistaken. My fiancé puts up with assholes all the time. those assholes also end up getting power to miss use as well. to many times for my liking my fiancé has called me with black eyes, bruised ribs and busted lips because of hazing and other bullshit.

Curious_Diversions
Curious_Diversions
2 years ago

@That’s a Moray

I think the “splitting” they’re talking about is like that scene in Monty Python, Life of Brian where they are sitting around the coliseum while their subversive political activist group split in to smaller and smaller groups based on minor differences in ideology while yelling “Splitter” scornfully at anyone who doesn’t agree with them.

I don’t know how you would do that projectively either.

Her tweets read like they’ve been google-translated though a couple different languages before posting. It doesn’t lose a whole log going through 3 steps of translation

(3 step)
Futrelle’s maximalism liberal discursive brand. When you think of the idealists, the good and the bad, the Cricket cattle idea politic is solving this problem.

I am not.

Is this a big problem for my policy?

Anonymous
Anonymous
2 years ago

Lainy –

I meant merely that it would be more beneficial to society. But while I 100% agree the military doesn’t make a-holes into non-a-holes, it does, or at least used to, make the immature more mature. Hazing and other such stuff is, at least in the IDF, very severely frowned upon and quite rare. Perhaps things are different in the US Army.

Talonknife
Talonknife
2 years ago

She writes her tweets the way I write my papers for class. She uses confusing and circular language to obfuscate the fact that she doesn’t really have a point.

reggie, the neighbour's cat and rare mutant
reggie, the neighbour's cat and rare mutant
2 years ago

Her tweets remind me of the time as an undergrad when we dared a friend of mine to put a list of ridiculous words (including gnome and defenestrate) into his next film studies essay. It’s like she’s throwing a year’s worth of words of the day into everything she writes.

Aron
Aron
2 years ago

I think I can smell a tankie.

Crip Dyke
Crip Dyke
2 years ago

@Prith kDar:

I thought about that, but I couldn’t make heads or tails out of her criticism using that definition either. (You stated this as well, I’m merely expanding on your point, not contesting it.) I mean, when she makes this statement:

Futrelle’s brand of liberal maximalism is entirely discursive. He thinks in idealistic terms of good and bad people, free floating feelings, and that silencing speakers with bad ideas solves political problems.

are the subsequent sentences actually subsidiary sentences? Do they expand the point made in the in the intro/topic/thesis sentence? Or are these simply multiple, random criticisms strung together without connection?

Because here’s the thing: If these criticisms aren’t related to each other, if they are just multiple things about David she dislikes, listing one, then another, then another, then, well, isn’t that the very definition of discursive you mention? And if she thinks being discursive in that sense is so bad,

why the hell is she engaging in the behavior herself at the same time she’s denigrating it?

Truly, she is a puzzlement.

kupo
kupo
2 years ago

@Crip Dyke
I assume she wanted to say “rambling” as a way of being dismissive (which, of course, is still inaccurate) but wanted to sound smart, so she checked a thesaurus and this is what she cane up with.

Rabid Rabbit
Rabid Rabbit
2 years ago

@Talonknife

As someone who marks papers, I’m afraid I’m now contractually obliged to hate you. Unless I can shame you out of the behavior by pointing out it’s Jordan Peterson’s favorite tactic too…