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“Feminized vegans” leave the UK open to immigrant infiltration, and other barmy insights from Daily Mail readers

By David Futrelle

The Daily Mail is famous for its uniquely British mixture of judgy prurience and good old-fashioned xenophobia. So naturally the comments section of its online edition is home to some of the worst takes the internet has to offer.

The other day I was introduced to a Twitter account that catalogs the worst of these terrible takes. Specifically, to this tweet, which I obviously needed to share with you all:

Bad science and racism, two terrible tastes that taste extra terrible together! And the misspelling of “testosterone” as “tostesterone” is … chef’s kiss!

Also, I’m pretty sure most French people aren’t vegan.

But this tweet is only the top of the iceberg. Here are some other, well, illuminating insights on assorted gender-related issues that The DM Reporter has plucked from the vast wasteland of the Daily Mail comments.

This final tweet really doesn’t have anything to do with gender but I feel sort of bad for the Daily Mail’s Russian Misery correspondent

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Hippodameia
Hippodameia
2 years ago

I’m glad you are not alone in trawling through the open sewers of the worst parts of the internet.

C4twoman
C4twoman
2 years ago

Sigh….
While it is true males past puberty have more testosterone…. mostly dedicated to reproductive health… everyone produces testosterone precursors from the adrenals. One can increase this production…with heavy lifting exercises like squats and deadlifts, with a balanced diet that includes protein.

But protein alone won’t do it.

Also, one must log off of 8chan and leave basement and actually exercise to defend the Vaterland or whatever.

Alex
Alex
2 years ago

France consumes some of the largest amount of meat per capita in Western Europe. I don’t think vegans are exactly taking Paris by storm, here.

The rest is garbage. I wouldn’t use the Daily Mail to line a birdcage, the amount of shit would invariably overflow just with the Mail in there.

Crip Dyke
Crip Dyke
2 years ago

Okay, look, I know the follow up comment was “eating meat = testosterone” but the intro was “vegans”. So… they’re asserting that the French don’t eat cheese?

Could anyone reading a British newspaper online really be that stupid?

Bina
2 years ago

Now, all we need is some self-righteous crapitalist moaning about millennials and their fondness for “avocado tostesterone” and how it’s keeping them out of the housing market, and the banquet of barf will be complete!

Ellesar
Ellesar
2 years ago

This reminds me of the 90s when the ‘progressive’ media gave Camille Paglia a lot of attention which she used to repeatedly trash women, particularly lesbians. Of course the press didn’t dare to do it directly so CP was ideal because she was a lesbian herself.

The Daily Fail has always been extremely right wing, at one point they supported Hitler. They have always preferred to let others do their dirty work.

Chris Oakley
2 years ago

One gets the creeping suspicion that if these Daily Mail commenters had been alive during the Battle of Britain they would have been pulling for the Luftwaffe.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

French food is all cream, butter and cheese, but okay. Veganism run amok.

Anonymous
Anonymous
2 years ago

I checked official statistics. For 2017, the five nations which had the most immigration to the UK were China, India, Romania, Australia, and the USA. Not exactly nations known for being third-world Islamic countries the “Daily Mail” is worried about. How many Romanian ISIS members could there be?

Bakunin
Bakunin
2 years ago

There’s a trans panic story shown in the last tweet, so also somewhat gender related.

Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
2 years ago

Crip Dyke:

Okay, look, I know the follow up comment was “eating meat = testosterone” but the intro was “vegans”. So… they’re asserting that the French don’t eat cheese?

I figure that for DM readers, anything less than red meat counts as a vegan dish. Besides, I don’t think there’s necessarily implication that France has been taken over by veganism, if we assume the Frenchmen are just naturally more effeminate compared to Englishmen.

(More seriously, I see everywhere in food related discourse this simplistic dichotomy between “veganism” and “eating lots of red meat”. I think it’s largely strawman construction from the masculine meat eaters. The politics of eating meat is a rising culture war issue, and I predict it will be huge 10-20 years from now.)

Moggie
Moggie
2 years ago

About the title of this article: I wouldn’t use the word “barmy” to refer to Daily Mail comments, because of our comments policy. In British English, “barmy” is essentially a synonym for “crazy”, and any WHTM commenter who used the latter would be rightly called out for it.

opposablethumbs
opposablethumbs
2 years ago

Not for nothing is this rag also known as the “Daily Heil”; it’s always been rabidly extreme-right. (throughout its history afaik, e.g. supporting Hitler as Ellesar points out).

reggie, the neighbour's cat and rare mutant
reggie, the neighbour's cat and rare mutant
2 years ago

I haven’t read through them all yet, but I just wanted to take time to note how atrocious the Daily Mail writing is – the second tweet highlights a sentence where the person employed to write (I don’t think they qualify as a journalist) wrote “she worst was feared.” Do the Daily Mail not employ a single sub-editor? Or even a single person with a functioning understanding of grammar?

occasional reader
occasional reader
2 years ago

Wait, i am not sure to understand all the links in the first picture : what link exists between a fire started by accident and a conga line beginning with veganism and finishing by infiltration ? What links exist in the conga line itself ? I have seen persons of both gender undertake the Dukan diet, and none of them look more manly after some weeks of that diet…
Maybe they imagine veganism => soy, with all the connotations it bears in some circles well known here ?
As a French, maybe we are soon going to be called Surrending Vegetable-eating Monkeys ?

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
2 years ago

Ooh, FACT in capital letters. Debate over.

Maybe she’s upset because immigrant meat is stealing meat jobs from British meat?

Moggie
Moggie
2 years ago

Immigrant meat is a real concern in the UK! Post-Brexit, a trade deal with the US may force us to accept imports of food produced to lower standards than those imposed in the EU. There’s much talk of American “chlorinated chicken” coming over here and displacing hardworking British dead poultry.

Wetherby
Wetherby
2 years ago

In related and somewhat surprising news, it seems that the Mail’s far less successful mid-market rival the Daily Express has been quietly reforming itself, thanks to getting a new editor a year ago whose first decision in the job was to stop demonising immigrants.

(For a useful snapshot of what a typical month in the life of the Express looked like, at least to people who wouldn’t be seen dead actually reading it and so only saw the front pages, go here.)

Their track record since then hasn’t been flawless (even under the new editor, they’ve run a couple of blatantly anti-trans pieces), but the change has been noticeable enough for the Stop Funding Hate campaign to reclassify them as “under review”, whereas previously the Express was one of their major targets.

cornychips
cornychips
2 years ago

@anonymous

Youre checking the stats now? When did that happen? And youre believing those stats too!???!! Then why wont you believe usa immigration stats instead of defending putting children in cages???

Moggie
Moggie
2 years ago

@Wetherby, I don’t believe this bit of the story for a moment:

He said he was horrified after searching for Daily Express front pages on Google shortly after accepting the job, only to see headlines such as: “At last! May gets tough on migrants!”, “How migrants snatched our homes”, and “Britain’s 40% surge in ethnic numbers.”

So, he worked for the Mirror, but was unaware of what one of the Mirror’s rivals had become? And it was only after taking the job that he discovered the kind of stories it had been running? Not credible. I don’t know why he’s pretending to wide-eyed innocence.

I hope that Reach, in addition to softening the Express’s stance, improve their staffing levels. Part of the paper’s problem under Desmond was that he laid off a lot of journos, and they just didn’t have enough bodies left to run a credible daily. Hence the reliance on press releases, made up shit, and the “Express bingo” of recycled stories. But I don’t know who is still reading it at this point. Probably just old people who stuck with it out of inertia.

varalys the dark
2 years ago

Apparently there are nearly 4 million vegans in the UK now. And I am one of them. Vegan’s also have higher testosterone levels than meat eaters. True, and hilarious, fact.

Specialffrog
Specialffrog
2 years ago

As a vegetarian who just got back from France I wish it was more overrun by vegans.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
2 years ago

@Moggie But just look at what American fast food chicken has done for the testoblerone levels of Dear Leader!

…I’m not sure about the correlation between eating meat and being attacked, but there may be one between eating meat and feeling attacked (see: Jordan Peterson).

Anonymous
Anonymous
2 years ago

Oppositethumb –

The”daily hail” is a new one for me; I’ve always heard it was nicknamed the “daily wail”…

Katamount
Katamount
2 years ago

It seems an ubiquitous feature of online version of print media for their comment sections to be rife with bigotry. Why any of them maintain comment sections is beyond me. But what really baffles me is who spends their free time trolling newspaper comment sections spamming the same hateful nonsense over and over. I see this with the HuffPost boards as well, and I do try to push back, but these people have way more time on their hands than me. Are they retirees? Is this what retirement looks like now? They aren’t bots, at least not the ones I’m thinking of, but what happened to doing all those things you wanted to do with your retirement years?

*sigh* Just depressing…

Anonymous
Anonymous
2 years ago

Katamount –

To be fair to the “Daily Wail”, the articles themselves are not as hateful as the comments; but the problem is *most* of the comments are like that, showing you what their audience is like.

Wetherby
Wetherby
2 years ago

The”daily hail” is a new one for me; I’ve always heard it was nicknamed the “daily wail”…

It’s been called the Daily Heil (as in Hitler) for as long as I can remember.

Given the paper’s enthusiastic support of Hitler in the 1930s, I wonder if it dates right back to then?

Moggie
Moggie
2 years ago

@Buttercup, if Trump is an example of the effect of high tostadarone levels, I’m happy to be a soy boy.

Moggie
Moggie
2 years ago

Some older lefties still refer to the Mail as the Daily Forger, thanks to its publication of the infamous fake “Zinoviev letter” in 1924, which greatly aided the Tories (as no doubt it was designed to do).

Personally, I’m not really comfortable with using events from the best part of a century ago to bash the Mail, when there’s no shortage of more recent things it can be criticised for.

kupo
kupo
2 years ago

To be fair to the “Daily Wail”

Why would one want to do that?

the articles themselves are not as hateful as the comments

That they mask the hate with more acceptable and palatable language doesn’t make it better or less hateful.

Fishy Goat
Fishy Goat
2 years ago

I had always heard it referred to as the Daily Fail. Honestly, all the names seem appropriate.

Wetherby
Wetherby
2 years ago

That they mask the hate with more acceptable and palatable language doesn’t make it better or less hateful.

The problem is often more an editorial than a journalistic one. I know someone who reluctantly gave an interview to the Mail after being impressed by the level of knowledge and interest displayed by the journalist who contacted him. (Whatever one’s personal feelings about the paper, it has a huge readership base that stretches well outside the confines of the so-called chattering classes, so cultivating it is sometimes a necessary evil.) And to a certain extent the gamble paid off, because the resulting article was absolutely fine – fair, balanced, factually accurate, scrupulously reported, you name it.

The problem was that it appeared under a massively inflammatory headline – which, needless to say, was not written by the article’s author, and which used language that he pointedly refrained from using in the piece itself (for instance, describing people into fully consensual BDSM as “perverts”).

Katamount
Katamount
2 years ago

@Anonymous

Which is why I never bought the bullshit rationalization of “Well, I can’t control my audience.” You get the audience you cultivate, really, and especially on social media and YouTube, it’s easy to do the necessary gatekeeping to keep out those you don’t want to have befouling your comment sections. Yet those trolls are still perceived as clicks and people feel they need to cater to them as much as everybody else.

This is what’s always bothered me about any of these reactionary fucksticks, be it GamerGaters or the CHUDs that vote down Captain Marvel or obnoxious Twitter trolls: they bank on their status as consumers to give them outsized and unmerited leverage when ordinarily, they’d be told they’re dipshits and banned outright. Trump is the perfect example: the whole world has to treat him with deference despite him being an obvious moron and charlatan just because of his temporary job title.

Moggie
Moggie
2 years ago

@Katamount:

But what really baffles me is who spends their free time trolling newspaper comment sections spamming the same hateful nonsense over and over.

Somewhat deluded people who greatly over-estimate the importance of newspaper comment sections?

Back when print newspapers still reigned, getting your letter published in the “letters to the editor” section was kind of a big deal. Space was limited, and that page was heavily curated. If your letter was published, it felt like a Very Serious Person had selected it from perhaps hundreds of others as being worthy of being seen by other Very Serious People. It was possible to imagine your missive being read, with furrowed brow, by a cabinet minister, who would then mutter “my God, they’re right”, and resolve to change a policy.

Times have changed, and nowadays anyone with any sense knows that those comment sections are cesspools, and should carry no more weight than youtube comments. But there appear to be people who still think that, by commenting, they’re performing the important task of speaking truth to power. You see this when comments are disabled under a story, and the usual “Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells” suspects turn up under an unrelated story to protest that they will not be silenced.

Perhaps every comment form should have a disclaimer which you must accept before posting: as fair as newspaper staff are concerned, your badly-spelled rant about whatever the fuck you’re angry about today will probably only be seen by the demoralised interns we have doing moderation duty. Most of our journalists don’t bother reading “below the line”, unless they’re looking for material to laugh about on twitter. In the wider world, nobody who matters will take any notice. Knock yourself out.

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
2 years ago

@Katamount:
There’s a reason why the CBC website took to closing comments on any story involving First Nations peoples.

It’s kind of a truism these days that unmoderated comments sections will become cesspools because the stink tends to drive out the people more willing to make positive contributions.

varalys the dark
2 years ago

Paul Dacre was the despicable editor in charge of The Fail for way too many years. A few months ago he got kicked upstairs much to his displeasure and the new editor was told by the people holding the purse strings to cut down on the rabid pro-Brexit shit. Whether this new moderation will cover the rest of the print paper’s topics remains to be seen.

The newspapers in the Uk are circling the drain anyway. They are only read by boomers like my mum (and she only buys the weekend Guardian and Observer for the crossword now), jobs are being shed all the time. The Express and Mirror have merged news desks. I read Private Eye and it covers the state of the UK press extensively. Quite eye opening.

Moggie
Moggie
2 years ago

One detail about Paul Dacre’s editorship of the Mail: staff are said to have referred to his editorial meetings as “the Vagina Monologues”, because of how frequently he would use the c-word. Not a pleasant man to work for, apparently.

Wetherby
Wetherby
2 years ago

This long, detailed and sometimes eye-opening New Yorker profile of the Daily Mail has dated in that Paul Dacre is no longer the editor, but it’s well worth reading anyway.

Scanisaurus
Scanisaurus
2 years ago

I’ve always considered the conflation of veganism and feminization idiotic, just look at Arnold Schwarzenegger, who is vegan and still looks like somebody tried building a man out of a pile of nothing but biceps, and if the man who played both the Terminator and Conan the Barbarian isn’t manly enough, then who on earth is?

Wetherby
Wetherby
2 years ago

Clive James’s memorable description of him was “a condom stuffed with walnuts”. Although I daresay that’s pretty vegan in itself.

John
John
2 years ago

Regarding comments sections….I think the worst are the ones that boost certain comments and show them out of order, based on “engagement.” This definitely happens in some comments sections, and it is exactly what Facebook and Reddit are. It allows “them” (read: algorithms) to set the terms of the “debate” by feeding us “both sides.” Regardless of how stupid the debate is, like global warming or vaccines.

Yes, I get how silly this is for me to say because David would have booted me for my positions by now, but I do generate some “engagement” while being mostly civil and fairly ignorant so….yeah, it’s all so absurd, but it is what it is.

Regarding French cooking….well, I learned almost everything I know from Julia Child, not just directly from her shows are recipes, but also because she taught pretty much everyone in America how to cook. There is nothing nicer than a butter finished pan sauce over meat. I really, really respect ethical vegans. I just can’t do it. Hell, I can’t even go vegetarian.

It does seem that one debate is meat vs. no meat vs. no dairy/eggs…..however, fresh vs. prepared may be a bigger deal for human health. I don’t know, but that is where I’m making my bet, and I’m cooking up some pasta sauce from scratch now.

Regarding immigration….Europe’s problems are not American problems. It is sad to see Europe’s struggles, and I’m far from denying that we have our own considering the orangutan currently in the White House, but immigration will help keep the United States strong.

Scanisaurus
Scanisaurus
2 years ago

@John

Regarding immigration….Europe’s problems are not American problems. It is sad to see Europe’s struggles, and I’m far from denying that we have our own considering the orangutan currently in the White House, but immigration will help keep the United States strong.

As a Swede myself, I really wish to say that the problems with immigration in Europe have been vastly didtorted and blown out of proportion by right-wing media, and I find it troubling how even in more progressive circles many Americans still buy into the myth that northern Europe is on the brink of collapse. In reality, people like Victor Orban is a far bigger threat to justice and democracy in Europe than immigrants.

John
John
2 years ago

As a Swede myself, I really wish to say that the problems with immigration in Europe have been vastly didtorted and blown out of proportion by right-wing media, and I find it troubling how even in more progressive circles many Americans still buy into the myth that northern Europe is on the brink of collapse.

That’s actually really good to know. And yeah…your point is solid, it’s not just the right wing here that doesn’t have a particularly good read on the situation. I’m guessing deeply ingrained American exceptionalism has something to do with it.

I would love to visit your beautiful country one day.

Flora
Flora
2 years ago

There is no immigration crisis, only HUMANITARIAN crises. But of course if you call it that then you sound like a monster telling people to go back where they came from. Nobody hangs out in a refugee camp for fun.

Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
2 years ago

OT
I haven’t had a chance to read this article but it looks informative. Buying weapons? That’s scary.

Canada’s new far right: A trove of private chat room messages reveals an extremist subculture

An analysis of 150,000 chat room messages paints a picture of a group that is actively recruiting new members, buying weapons and trying to influence political parties

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-canadas-new-far-right-a-trove-of-private-chat-room-messages-reveals/?utm_source=pocket-newtab#comments

Anonymous
Anonymous
2 years ago

Incidentally, “heil” is pronounced (roughly) like “HI-yl”, not like “hail”. There was a neo Nazi idiot (but I repeat myself) who, in prison, actually changed his name to “Hi Hitler”, on the assumption that that was the Fuhrer’s full name, which the Nazis were shouting.

As for why be fair to the”Daily Wail” – if you are knowingly UNfair to anybody you criticize, no matter how despicable, you are no longer engaged in criticism but, at most, in counter-propadanda.

Anonymous
Anonymous
2 years ago

Just to clarify, I mean being fair in serious criticism. Satire, parody, etc., are not *supposed* to be fair. But they don’t claim to be serious criticism.

Anonymous
Anonymous
2 years ago

>>>>>>As a Swede myself, I really wish to say that the problems with immigration in Europe have been vastly didtorted and blown out of proportion by right-wing media, and I find it troubling how even in more progressive circles many Americans still buy into the myth that northern Europe is on the brink of collapse.

I’m not surprised at the distortion. I am from Israel and met lots of Americans who think we essentially live in bomb shelters. Conversely, I know Israelis who think that Manhattan or Chicago look like in “Escape from New York” or gangster movies. Media portrayals of just about *anywhere* are distorted, often (as you say) due to ulterior motives.

Anonymous
Anonymous
2 years ago

Kat –

>>>>>Buying weapons? That’s scary.

Indeed, but that is what they say in chat rooms. I’ll bet good money they couldn’t hit the side of a barn if they actually bought any rifle, but I agree that better safe than sorry.

They keep talking about *weapons*, because they’re sexy and manly, to them. They never speak about all that boring, unimportant stuff, like fuel, batteries, spare parts, or food and water, that is also necessary for any military action – to say nothing of numerous other things.

Their “uprising” will never happen since – to name just a few reasons – each one will want to be the big boss (just like in video games); they will get hungry and thirsty; nobody will have any idea where anybody else is, let alone after dark; and they really have no idea what their goal is.

I am just an old Master Sergeant, and even I can see they couldn’t be organized enough to cross the street without losing half their force. They post a risk as bitter loners, yes, but as a military threat, as a group, they are less than hopeless.

Katamount –

Unless you allow free speech in your comments section there’s no point to having it. So every comment section anywhere will have *some* distasteful or racist comments. Free speech can always be abused.

But is it 5% racist comments by trolls others ignore, as in some papers… Or 90%+, like in the “Wail”?

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

It’s not distortion in the media. It’s willful right wing fear mongering about immigrants/people of color. With the fame of Ilhan Omar I’m starting to see internet propaganda about how Somali immigration has turned my city, Minneapolis into a dystopia. That’s not just a distortion. It has no connection to reality whatsoever. The reality is we are always near the top in national quality of life rankings and near the bottom in unemployment.

You can not transition a society from a democracy to an authoritian regime without first convincing a significant portion of the public that reality isn’t reality. Facts aren’t facts. People have to be scared to willingly embrace human rights abuses and trade in their rights for protection.

This shit isn’t garbled facts and rumors. It’s part of a global propaganda machine designed to get people in democratic nations to look the other way while democracy is stripped away bit by bit.

It’s kind boggling to me that you, Anonymous, are repeating right wing lies and fear mongering about immigrants in one thread and commiserating with us in this about media distortion. It’s like you’re close to seeing that you’re a pawn (still true if you’re trolling and don’t believe all you’ve written BTW) but can’t quite make the connection.

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