By David Futrelle
Another apparent act of far-right terrorism: A gunman apparently armed with a semi-automatic weapon entered a synagogue in Poway, California during a celebration of the final day of Passover and opened fire, killing one and wounding three others. The alleged shooter, a 19-year-old identified as John Earnest, fled the scene but was taken into custody shortly afterwards.
There are as-yet unconfirmed reports that Earnest left behind an anti-Semitic manifesto in which he also confessed to “scorch[ing] a mosque in Escondido with gasoline a week after [New Zealand Mosque shooter] Brenton Tarrant’s sacrifice and they never found shit on me.” [EDIT: See below for updates.]
Several days ago, in an unrelated incident, an Iraq war veteran on his way to a Bible study group drove into a crowd of pedestrians in Sunnyvale, California — apparently because he believed some in the crowd were Muslims. According to eyewitnesses, the driver showed no remorse, getting out of his car and praising Jesus several times before he was arrested. He’s been charged with eight counts of attempted murder.
Here’s an open thread to discuss these cases and the rise of hate and hate crimes in the US and around the world.
EDITED TO ADD: Looks like the manifesto is indeed his.
EDITED TO ADD 2: Heavy.com has a profile of the shooter with extensive excerpts from the manifesto that make clear he was radicalized online, specifically mentioning 8chan and 4chan’s /pol/ board. He says he was inspired by the Tree of Life shooter and spurred to action by the Christchurch mosque shooter. I’m reading the manifesto and may write more about it.
EDITED TO ADD 3:
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Yes, you are. Please stop.
@Mels- Ok, but these people are also seriously proposing genocide and have demonstrated they don’t need provocation, they’ll invent bogus narratives to justify that jews or other groups are a legitimate threat without any evidence whatsoever. It truly doesn’t make a difference whether the threat is in their heads or not.
It’s not even don’t bring it up at all. It’s don’t bring it up in every thread. Try posting more about it in the thread where the conversation first took place. Anyone who wishes to discuss it will answer there. Or wait until it’s organic to the topic being discussed.
@weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
Thank you for clarifying, I’ll try my best doing what you ask.
Disgusting that people can’t even attend their places of worship without fear of being attacked.
There is something particularly nefarious about attacking people in places where they inherently feel they should be safe.
This is putrid both-siderism:
Anonymous
April 28, 2019 at 2:16 am
Two issues.
About extremism:
Anti-semitism isn’t due to right-wing extremism. It is due to *extremism*, period. On the far extremes you get “death to the Jews” neo-nazis – and Farrakhan supporters.
On the slightly less extreme side you get “anti-zionists” (wink, nod) like, say, Pat Buchanan – and Ilhan Omar. (It’s not the jews who control the world, it’s the zionists who control the USA! Antisemitic? Moi?!) Funny how extremists on both sides disagree about everything EXCEPT that it is all the fault of the Jews.
About guns:
As an Israeli the whole American fascination with guns puzzles me. Israelis, even by American standards, are armed to the teeth, due to the draft – it is extremely common to go on a bus and have, say, five soldiers with fully automatic weapons, and occassionally heavier ones.
Yet shootings like this are, so far at least, rare – as is civilian gun ownership. If a civilian owns a gun in Israel, which requires a permit, regular training, etc., it is almost certain he goes through the hassles because has a real reason – a truck or taxi driver working nights, say.
Americans seem to *love* guns. Israelis do not, they see them as a sad necessity. I just don’t get it.
P. S.
The whole AK-15 issue is a puzzle to us, too – it’s just a stripped-down M-16, without the full-auto function – a toy gun by Israeli standards. Besides, every soldier knows you virtually NEVER use automatic fire if you want to hit something, even in actual battle, so the whole “fully automatic” bruhaha is a moot point, raised by those who get their idea of automatic weapons from movies or video games.
Doethreetwoone: that is precisely why they do it THERE.
Anonymous
Ilhan Omar did nothing wrong, and I deeply resent your conflation of anti-Semitism and criticism of the actions of the state of Israel and their lobbying in the US.
P.S. Granny was a Holocaust orphan, so don’t even go there.
Dislike of Israeli war crimes IS NOT antisemitic.
The inability to even speak about these things without getting those labels thrown is incredibly damaging to our discourse.
If “left-wing” Farrakhan or Omar supporters start mass-murdering people, well… then maybe you’d have a point.
You’re operating on the assumption that there is an intent to hit “something”.
What if the intent is to hit “anything”?
“Every soldier knows…” that they’re going to be facing similarly equipped soldiers that are taking cover, probably over 40 yards away and using similar tactics.
But let’s say your were a time travel soldier, and for some reason you had to kill a bunch of people, but they were old timey soldiers. You *zoop* (time travel noise) in next to them and they’re 1740’s Flemish musketeers, standing almost shoulder to shoulder in an 8×5 marching formation or a tightly packed Greek Phalanx with every soldier touching shields with the man on his side and 3 or 4 feet behind the guy in front of him? What’s your ideal fire rate then if you wish to survive, maximize casualties and cause panic/retreat/demoralization in your foes?
Now which of these military tactics MOST resembles a theater showing a blockbuster comic book movie or a country western concert or a place of worship on a holy day?
*zoop*
@Christopher Green
Let’s not kid ourselves though, antisemitism on the left is a problem – like, actual antisemitic conspiracy theories.
Antisemites on the left aren’t murdering us yet, but they are making a lot of community spaces hostile towards us, and many of the authoritarian ones would kill us if they got the chance. (Not unrelated to how they think we actually do control all the money.) And they are definitely helping to empower the right in its antisemitism, and helping the right in its divide-and-conquer strategies against us.
Louis Farrakhan is nearly not as dangerous as Steve King, but nonetheless, fuck him.
Cyborgette:
Fuck you.
@Wild Cat
Likewise. Believe me, the feeling is mutual.
Antisemitism is not okay. Period. Being on the left myself doesn’t mean I refuse to call leftists out for it.
(And if you can’t distinguish between opposing Israel’s occupation and pushing actual antisemitic conspiracy theories, you badly need to learn you some history. Fuck off.)
Oookaaayyyyy
I dont understand what is going on here
How do Open Threads work? I’m curious because I had gathered the impression that they were basically a conversational free-for-all, where anyone could bring up anything, but not necessarily be guaranteed a reply. I’ve seen multiple “Next time there’s an open thread, let’s talk about this” type of comments (still looking forward to the lawyer discussion on prison violence that’s supposed to go down at some point). But now I’ve just seen Scanisaurus get shut down for this not being the right place to talk about Das Boot. I evidently am not as up-and-up on the whole figuring out social rules thing as I thought I was. So what are the rules about Open Threads?
As a second comment, I’m with Christopher Green on the Israli war crimes. You can’t say “holy shirt, anti-Semitism” in response to “stop killing the shirt out of Palestinian protesters”. It is possible for Israel to do wrong, the Holocaust did not buy moral idemnity unto the third and forth generations.
@cornychips
I don’t entirely either, but it looks to me like Wild Cat doesn’t like me claiming that antisemitism is a problem on the left, or possibly insulting Louis Farrakhan specifically (IDK).
I can assure y’all that it very much is a problem. And I am a leftist, lest people forget. I believe in abolition of borders, forcible redistribution of wealth, and a society that protects the vulnerable, elevates the disempowered, and provides fairness and compassion for everyone.
And, and, I should not have to prove my leftist credentials to call out antisemitism. But that is antisemitism for you. Like any form of bigotry, it doesn’t have to be directly violent to be pervasive and gross.
@Lurker LXVII
I am not saying that. Don’t you fucking dare put words into my mouth.
Like holy shit, what is wrong with y’all that a reminder that antisemitism exists and is a problem on the left is unacceptable, in an open thread literally about a violent antisemitic hate crime. Again, I am opposed to the Israeli occupation, and again I should not have to prove my credentials. Fuck off.
Oh hey look I found an older post by Wild Cat!
https://www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/2019/01/12/when-lobsters-attack-jordan-peterson-fanboys-invade-my-blog-and-leave-some-stinky-droppings/comment-page-1/#comment-2411173
Hi there, troll. Silly troll is silly.
@Lurker LXVII:
I don’t think it’s official, but IME there are two kinds of open threads: the more-or-less monthly ones, where anything goes (and Scanisaurus would be fine discussing Das Boot again), and the open threads on specific topics, like this one. Note David’s original closing line (before the ETAs): “Here’s an open thread to discuss these cases and the rise of hate and hate crimes in the US and around the world.” Generally, these ones let people blow off steam without having to respond to something directly in the post. These ones tend to appear when there’s an event that lots of people are going to want to respond to, so that the conversation about said event doesn’t take over other threads where interesting discussions might be happening.
Both types of open thread generally get a no-trolls certificate, though I notice David didn’t this time.
Since this is a thread about the recent gun violence I thought I could talk about mine. One of the football players at my college was murdered the other day about a block from the campus. He was 23 and just got accepted into the NFL draft thing. I knew him in passing. Had dinner with him a few times because I’m friends with one of his teammates. We talk at the gym on campus when I go there for yoga and my brain just can’t seem to wrap around this.
Oh wow, that’s awful. My sympathies @Lainy. 🙁
@Lurker 67:
Oops, was that me? If so I had completely forgotten.
I’d be happy to have a discussion about that, though I’ll have to re-read the original location where it was brought up to know for sure what the specific subject was.
Yeah, that’s about how specific-topic threads work. If a topic doesn’t fit there, the suggestion is to hold it for the next open thread.
That really wasn’t about the rules for open threads. That was about Scanisaurus being stuck on a single topic over multiple threads. Specifically because this IS an open thread, I doubt David would ban Scanisaurus for continuing to talk about Das Boot, but since it’s an open thread other people are free to talk about how they’re reacting negatively to Scanisaurus’ repeated comments on a single, easily triggering theme. The suggestion about waiting for the topic to come up organically isn’t about how you can’t talk about rape or media or Das Boot in an open thread. The suggestion was about how other people in the community are reacting badly and are asking for a break.
It’s up to Scanisaurus and those other people to negotiate just how to balance Scanisaurus’ obvious need to chat about DB with others’ obvious need for a break from DB. But as a helpful community we can certainly use this open thread to give suggestions on what compromises might be best for the whole.
But yes, it’s an open thread. If you want to talk about Chuck Tingle’s classic novel Space Raptor: Butt Invasion, that’s fine. If you want to talk about the musical Matilda based on the wonderful Roald Dahl book and the classism surrounding the new production in Colombo, Sri Lanka sponsored by the real estate developers responsible for yet another upscale, gated mixed-use development that inevitably excludes marginalized and poor persons from opportunities to shop at what are supposedly public stores, that’s fine. If you want to talk about how Marie Antoinette was unfairly blamed for the economic policies of Les Physiocrats when she actually engaged in fund raising specifically to buy bread for the poor, well that’s fine too.
But if your comments are causing distress in the community, it’s also fine for the community to talk about that and try to reach a solution that works (as well as is possible) for everyone.
Separately, on the topic of Farrakhan: Is he left wing?
Sure, I agree that he’s been horribly anti-semitic, but I don’t follow the guy, so I’m less certain whether or not he’s left-wing.
I mean, tell me if I’m wrong about any/all of the following positions that it’s my understanding he promotes:
1. Women should not work outside the home
2. Abortion == Bad
3. The correct response to fear of government violence is to arm the citizenry against them.
4. The Black race should be held separate from the white race.
5. There is only one true religion, and it is mine. Other people don’t have freedom of religion because there’s no freedom to do bad things and other religions are bad.
6. Queers are all men and they are disgusting and icky and it is intolerable to think about them so the appropriate thing to do is monologue about them for another hour without interruption.
7. Consensual sodomy should be criminal.
8. Sex work should remain criminal.
9. Marriage is between one man and one woman, though of course you can’t blame a preacher-man for getting a little on the side, so long as he’s a preacher for the right religion.
10. Racialized nationalism is a good thing as long as i’m the one doing it, but when done by people not like me it is a terrible, horrible threat to justice and peace and likely to cause a civil war in which I will be fully justified in killing thousands if not millions of persons of the race(s) I hate.
I’m not saying Farrakhan isn’t dangerous. But I do wonder if he’s left-of-center politically or if people just call him left of center because of racism.
But, as a reminder, I’m no expert on Farrakhan, so I could be wrong about his positions above or I could be missing some crucial context in which he (e.g.) supported Bernie Sanders or something.
@Crip Dyke
Yeah, no, I don’t consider Farrakhan “the left” (and should have said so). I used him by example because another poster had mentioned him. Sorry, that was sloppy of me.
That said, fuck antisemitism on the left, which does exist and is a problem. (And also needs to be approached in a way that doesn’t perpetuate white supremacist bullshit, but that’s a topic for another day.)