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alt-right anti-Semitism hate Islamophobia mass shooting terrorism

Synagogue shooting in Poway, California: Open thread

The Chabad of Poway synagogue

By David Futrelle

Another apparent act of far-right terrorism: A gunman apparently armed with a semi-automatic weapon entered a synagogue in Poway, California during a celebration of the final day of Passover and opened fire, killing one and wounding three others. The alleged shooter, a 19-year-old identified as John Earnest, fled the scene but was taken into custody shortly afterwards.

There are as-yet unconfirmed reports that Earnest left behind an anti-Semitic manifesto in which he also confessed to “scorch[ing] a mosque in Escondido with gasoline a week after [New Zealand Mosque shooter] Brenton Tarrant’s sacrifice and they never found shit on me.” [EDIT: See below for updates.]

Several days ago, in an unrelated incident, an Iraq war veteran on his way to a Bible study group drove into a crowd of pedestrians in Sunnyvale, California — apparently because he believed some in the crowd were Muslims. According to eyewitnesses, the driver showed no remorse, getting out of his car and praising Jesus several times before he was arrested. He’s been charged with eight counts of attempted murder.

Here’s an open thread to discuss these cases and the rise of hate and hate crimes in the US and around the world.

EDITED TO ADD: Looks like the manifesto is indeed his.

EDITED TO ADD 2: Heavy.com has a profile of the shooter with extensive excerpts from the manifesto that make clear he was radicalized online, specifically mentioning 8chan and 4chan’s /pol/ board. He says he was inspired by the Tree of Life shooter and spurred to action by the Christchurch mosque shooter. I’m reading the manifesto and may write more about it.

EDITED TO ADD 3:

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weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Yeah, my comment earlier was because it irritates me when one person tries to turn every thread into their pet topic or issue. Not about going off topic, which is a regular occurrence here and a good thing. But I don’t want to be the thread police either, if everyone else thinks I’m being unreasonable, that’s fine. I was just stating my own opinion.

Lurker LXVII
Lurker LXVII
1 year ago

@Cyborgette

I am not saying that. Don’t you fucking dare put words into my mouth.

I never said you said that, did I? That’s right, I didn’t. I said it as a general point, and I stand by it. If you really want to know, it was more said with Anonymous in mind. I did enjoy your measured response, though, two thumbs up.

@Rabid Rabbit

Thanks for the clarification! 🙂

@Crip Dyke

I always did think that cake quote might have been misinterpreted by the victors of that particular historical argument. Thanks also! 🙂 I believe the discussion was to be between Alan G and another community member that was not you (a defense lawyer, are you defense?), but admittedly I only really remembered it was UK vs US lawyer opinions on prison violence in their respective countries.

Dalillama
Dalillama
1 year ago

@Crip Dyke

Separately, on the topic of Farrakhan: Is he left wing?…But I do wonder if he’s left-of-center politically or if people just call him left of center because of racism.

Yeah, he gets lumped into ‘the left’ by nazie and such ilk on account of being a black activist, basically.

Cyborgette
Cyborgette
1 year ago

@Lurker LXVII

Ah sorry, my bad.

And yeah, this is not a great day for me being measured, TBH. Between the thread topic, community drama, and male “allies” doing gross stuff and getting away with it, I have been feeling pretty moody, not to say paranoid.

Christopher Green
Christopher Green
1 year ago

Cyborgette

Heyyyyyy, that was a great reply and you’re all good by me.

I tend to get knee-jerky about these things, as I spend an unhealthy amount of time on YouTube threads arguing with… well… the same idiots who try to troll here.

Cyborgette
Cyborgette
1 year ago

@Dalillama

Please see my post re that on the last page.

This is the last time I’m going try and prove my leftist credentials here.

Sorry in advance if you’re not aiming that at me personally. It is extremely difficult for me right now to tell what is personal vagueposting, and what is actually intended as general comments, because see above.

Cyborgette
Cyborgette
1 year ago

@Christopher Green

Thanks. I’m glad.

Now I’m going to take a break from this thread for a while, because I was already exhausted before this awful argument started.

Dalillama
Dalillama
1 year ago

@Cyborgette
Just a clarification for CD, no worries.

Lurker LXVII of the Chattering Class
Lurker LXVII of the Chattering Class
1 year ago

@Cyborgette

No worries then. 🙂 I’m sorry that you’re having a bad time, hope it gets less frustrating/awful.

Viscaria
Viscaria
1 year ago

I never know what to say in threads like these. Everything feels very hollow. I just want to express my support and my deepest condolences for the Jewish community and every community being targeted by terrorism.

Crip Dyke
Crip Dyke
1 year ago

@Lurker 67:

a defense lawyer, are you defense?

I went to law school, but I’m a law academic. I don’t take actual clients and don’t argue in court. This is because of disability stuff. It’s always possible that if I feel my health is good enough for me to predict my availability 6 months out I might decide the time is right to get licensed and start practicing, but I haven’t yet.

That’s also something to remember for future context: although I know a lot of law, there are practical aspects to the day-to-day practice that anyone whose argued a couple cases would know better than I. Fortunately for my vanity, around here we mostly talk about abstract, “what does the law say about X generally?” questions and not anything like, “What would be the best legal strategy for this specific real-life person engaged in this specific real-life case with these specific facts when opposing this specific motion?”

Courtroom strategy – and even things like contract drafting, which is often done with an eye toward what you would want your courtroom strategy to be if something went wrong – requires a different knowledge set in which I’m not really competent. Helping someone draft a contract I could probably do. It’s just abstract enough and much closer to where I feel most at home (statutory drafting and constitutional analysis). But I wouldn’t (and couldn’t) take money for it and wouldn’t be “expert” at all. Even doing something like that would require me to hit the books in a way that a competent contract lawyer would not, and thus it would take me more hours than would be fair to bill (even if it were ethical for me to bill any hours at all). Once you get to something like a barrister’s courtroom strategy, practical knowledge is incredibly important. You don’t get to have a recess every time you want to consult a book to decide whether or not you want to object to some witness’s testimony. That’s stuff you just have to know, and even abstract knowledge – like knowing the Daubert standard for expert testimony in Canada or the Brady disclosure requirements imposed on prosecutors in the US – doesn’t tell you whether this particular judge is irritable or not, or predisposed to permit expert testimony more often but also strike it retroactively more often, etc., etc., etc.

Short answer: no. I’m not a defense lawyer and I wouldn’t be competent to plan a defense. On the other hand, I’m perfectly competent to parse statutory language, which is more than good enough for most purposes here.

Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
1 year ago

President Donald Trump extends his condolences

I spoke at length yesterday to Rabbi Yisroel Goldstein, Chabad of Poway, where I extended my warmest condolences to him and all affected by the shooting in California. What a great guy. He had a least one finger blown off, and all he wanted to do is help others. Very special!

3:49 AM – 29 Apr 2019

bluecat
bluecat
1 year ago

I agree with Viscaria – always hard to know what to say, but important to say it.

My condolences, solidarity and love to the Jewish community, the community of that synagogue, the neighbourhood, and all the communities and individuals everywhere affected by this appalling terrifying crap.

Let us remember the courage of all those whose first thought was to protect others.

Anonymous
Anonymous
1 year ago

The shooter, in an online manifesto, calls Trump a “traitorous zionist”. This is also the view of the cartoonist who published an anti-Semitic cartoon a day before in the NYT, and of Rep. Ilhan Omar.

“Anti-zionist” “activism”, from the left or the right, is for all intents and purposes anti-Semitism. Whatever their many differences, they all agree the “zionists” (read: Jews) are evil.

Cyborgette
Cyborgette
1 year ago

@Anonymous

Again, since this already came up: if you cannot distinguish between “opposing the Israeli occupation and oppressive policies towards Palestinians” vs. “actually promoting hatred of Jews”, your take on this is worthless and harmful. This shit is actually nuanced, and requires actually thinking.

– Yes, antisemitism exists on the left and is a problem. That doesn’t make leftist thought inherently antisemitic in the same way as white supremacy.

– Antizionism does not have to be antisemitic (even if too much of it is in practice). Like seriously, there is nothing needfully antisemitic about opposing a nation-state’s brutally racist and expansionist policies (and if you think there is, there is something very wrong with your concept of Jewishness).

– “Zionism” in a modern leftist context is not invariably a euphemism for Jews, Stalin notwithstanding (and Stalinism is not popular on the left these days, look up the term “tankie” some time).

– Israel is not a stand-in for all Jews everywhere. I for one identify strongly as a Diaspora Jew, and despise the Israeli government just as I despise nation-states in general. My Jewishness is not tied to the soil of one country, and in fact I consider nationalism antithetical to it.

– Lastly, if you support Trump while bashing Ilhan Omar for her supposed antisemitism, I don’t even know what to tell you. Trump, who called a Jewish guy he didn’t like “sleepy eyes” and thinks that actual neo-Nazis are “fine people”. Trump, who tells Jewish citizens that Israel, not the US, is their country. Trump, who employed actual neo-Nazi Sebastian Gorka in his cabinet. Trump, who ran for President on an open platform of ethnic cleansing, and is even now separating toddlers from their parents in the name of “national security”.

You are a disgrace, as a human being and as a Jew, and you should be ashamed of yourself.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

I’m waiting for Anonymous to condemn Steve King, Mo Brooks and all those Republican ads demonizing George Soros the way he condemns Omar. Something tells me we’ll be waiting a while.

Anonymous
Anonymous
1 year ago

>>>>>>>Again, since this already came up: if you cannot distinguish between “opposing the Israeli occupation and oppressive policies towards Palestinians” vs. “actually promoting hatred of Jews”

Oh, I most definitely can.

I suggest to you that showing Trump as a blind, skullcap-wearing Jew led by a Jewish dog (isn’t he supposed to be a Nazi? But never mind); claiming AIPAC controls the USA; or to claim Trump is a “traitorous zionist”, are all NOT “opposing Israeli policies”.

They are merely the old “the Jews control the world” trope, morphed into “the zionists / Israelies control the USA”. Their disingenuous claim that they are just “anti-zionists” is about as convincing as creationists claiming they just are prompting “intelligent design”. Or, probably a better analogy, as convincing as Holocaust deniers claiming they are just “revisionists”.

cornychips
cornychips
1 year ago

@anonymous

Just admit you like trump because hes a fucking bully and racist and YOU FUCKING LIKE IT. I guess as long as you think Trump isn’t anti-semitic (which he is) then everything that Trump does is infallible. And because some asshole publication posted some anti-semitic shit that makes Trump ok? Where the fuck is the logic in that?

You don’t respond to anybodys actual arguments that trump is not a good president, all your responses are “one time, a racist newspaper posted some anti-jewish stuff so everything trump does is a-ok!”

Right now, he is riling up the masses to have reproductive rights for half the population stripped. AND YOU ARE OK WITH THAT because somebody called him a some names.

I get it, those things don’t concern you. You don’t care about anybody except yourself – women, LGBT, POC, and especially those “non-sequitor” children being raped at the border be damned.

GO FUCK YOURSELF

cornychips
cornychips
1 year ago

my grammar and editing skills are horrible today – sorry everybody

cornychips
cornychips
1 year ago

Also, I noticed this stupid little nugget in a previous thread

But I guess we all do what we can to fight fascism – some blow up Wehrmacht trains in the Russian forest, some post about Trump being evil on the internet.

Super passive-aggressive. I guess you’re doing all YOU can do to prevent Fascism? Right? What are you doing besides posting about what meanies people are saying about Trump? Where’s your fucking antifa cred mother fucker?

Hambeast
Hambeast
1 year ago

Poway is pretty much my back yard and the fact that this horrible thing happened there is not too surprising to me; it’s in* a very white and evangelical area. The response of the mayor is a hopeful bright spot, though.

But it’s still sickening to have it happen so close.

*It’s adjacent to the much more affluent town of Rancho Bernardo which is known to locals as a bastion of white supremacy.

Diego Duarte
Diego Duarte
1 year ago

@WWTH

The establishment didn’t stop the Nazis while they still could because they didn’t think they needed to.

You know, I wonder how much of that is true. The more the right wing descends into violence, the more they try to equate progressives to them, as if there was an actual terrorist Left wing movement in the US.

Liberals seem to suffer from a “fanatical centrism” that isolates them from any critical thinking whatsoever. Personally, I find that they are segmented and all about abolishing hierarchies, but only the ones that are personally disadvantageous to them. The rest of them? They are all too happy to preserve. What’s amusing is that these hierarchies are inter-sectional and even they cannot identify what should constitute centrism.

Maybe it’s not that they don’t think they need to stop Nazi because they think the Nazis will not come for them, once they are done the more vulnerable groups.

Scanisaurus
Scanisaurus
1 year ago

@Lurker LXVII, and everyone else responding to them

I’m sorry if the topics I’ve ranted about regarding their depiction in the DB show have been triggering to anyone here, I promise to use a content warning whenever I bring up that kind of stuff in the future. I’ve been too focused on venting my own anxiety and I didn’t realize it was causing anyone distress and I wish I’d known sooner. It’s been a problem irl for me too, people getting angry at me for bringing up the same things too many times and I never realize until they tell me.
I wish I could let it go myself, but I can stop bringing it up in this or new threads.

Lastly though, Rabid Rabbit mentioned two kinds of Open Threads but I’m still unsure on how to tell the difference between the two, any advice on this?

Scanisaurus
Scanisaurus
1 year ago

@Diego Duarte

Maybe it’s not that they don’t think they need to stop Nazi because they think the Nazis will not come for them, once they are done the more vulnerable groups.

It’s an apt summary of the famous poem by Martin Niemöller.

Crip Dyke
Crip Dyke
1 year ago

At Scanisaurus:

Here’s the announcement of THIS open thread:

Here’s an open thread to discuss these cases and the rise of hate and hate crimes in the US and around the world.

I added the bolding, but see how it’s an open thread … for a purpose?

This is different from how some other threads are announced, like:

Here’s your open thread!

See how there’s no qualifiers?

There are also times when David will do something like:

We’re all exhausted from Trump’s horribleness, so here’s an open thread to discuss anything except politics.

All you really have to do is read the open thread announcement. If there’s no other info, it’s a fully open thread. If there’s extra info about having a specific purpose, then the topics aren’t limited but you should make sure that the topic serves the purpose named. If there’s extra info about certain topics being banned, just don’t talk about those topics, whatever your purpose.

But yeah, it’s just the announcement. And if you have any confusion, you can always ask for others’ help in interpreting what David said.

We all want you to get what you need. But as a community we have to think about everyone at once, which sometimes mean compromising.

Scanisaurus
Scanisaurus
1 year ago

@Crip Dyke
Ok, I’ll look closer on the title announcements next time.

We all want you to get what you need. But as a community we have to think about everyone at once, which sometimes mean compromising.

That’s good to hear, I’ll bear it in mind.

Rabid Rabbit
Rabid Rabbit
1 year ago

@Scanisaurus

In addition to what Crip Dyke said — or maybe just a shortcut: this kind of less general open thread usually appears because something horrible’s happened, and there needs to be a (safe) place for people to react. The event’s in the title. Topics can still vary, but it’s understood that they won’t go too far from the original one, and especially that they won’t shift the spotlight too much.

It’s sort of like how at a funeral reception, no one will mind if you talk about how life’s unfair, but if you start ranting about how your car was totalled last week and insurance is useless and used car salesmen are sleazy toadies, people are going to look at you askance, whereas they’d be fine with it if it was your regular Friday night down at the pub. Time and a place, you know?

(That being said, I do kind of wish David would put up no-holds-barred regular-Friday-down-at-the-pub open threads more regularly. They’re useful.)

Anonymous
Anonymous
1 year ago

Suppose the NY Times published a cartoon of the blind Trump, wearing an afro, being led by Obama, portrayed as a monkey. Might *this* be just a teeny bit racist? Or would Black people be told that they need to man up, and “not consider every criticism of Obama as racism”?

Why is it that those who pride themselves on their opposition to racism and prejudice, suddenly cannot recognize the crudest forms of “the Jews control the world” antisemitism? Because the antisemites use the magic word “zionist”? Do the anti-racists treat the KKK any better because they say they are just “pro white”? How about “men’s rights” activists saying they just want “fairness”? Why does the “I said the magic word” defense only work for antisemites?

And, P.S. –

Supppose they DID mean “zionists”. How is this less antisemitic? How is saying that the tiny Jewish state magically controls the USA through its evil machinations any different than directly saying “the Jews” do it?

Scanisaurus
Scanisaurus
1 year ago

@Rabid Rabbit
Yes, looking back I can definitively see why bringing it up here was inappropriate, I’ll try not to do it again.

(That being said, I do kind of wish David would put up no-holds-barred regular-Friday-down-at-the-pub open threads more regularly. They’re useful.)

I second that. It’s probably for the best for everyone that I drop the subject that I’ve already ranted too much about, but there’s lots of other things I’d like to discuss if I could do so without derailing the original topic.

Bookworm in hijab
Bookworm in hijab
1 year ago

I’d put myself on a more or less complete media shutdown for a few weeks; I hadn’t even heard of this shooting when it happened! I’m utterly gutted by it. All my sympathies and love and condolences to my Jewish brothers and sisters…all my thoughts and prayers, but also all my standing up and speaking out.

Fruitloopsie
Fruitloopsie
1 year ago

Damn, Jews and Romani people can never catch a break. Even ‘progressives’ are like ‘screw you’ to them. Also yes there is antisemitism and we need to take it more seriously just look at all the nazis/sympathizers we see like pewdiepie, jontron, evilion, asian andy and tila tequila, etc and no one gives a shit. But saying Palestinians are oppressed and being killed is not antisemitism.

Sad, a woman died to save her rabbi that i already posted in another thread.
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/juliareinstein/poway-synagogue-victim-died-saving-rabbi