By David Futrelle
The “involuntarily” celibate fellows who’ve branded themselves incels may not be getting any sex, but that doesn’t stop them from thinking, and theorizing, about sex, much in the way someone blind from birth might theorize about what it’s like to see.
Over on the Incels.co forums, the regulars recently found themselves in a debate on the apparently controversial (amongst incels) proposition “Does Female pleasure matter?”
The fellow asking the question, an Incels.co regular with more than 400 comments to his name, feels that the only correct answer is “no.”
“I’ve been thinking, objectively the purpose for sex is to reproduce,” Salutextm began.
Men essentially enjoy this since they need to climax for reproduction to happen in light of the fact that the nerves that make sex feel pleasurable are in the head of the Penis. So a male’s pleasure is truly essential and will happen more often than not.
Ok, so far so good. We need to reproduce to keep our species going, so evolution has evidently designed sex to be fun so we’ll do it.
But I couldn’t think of any natural reason for the female orgasm or female pleasure.
Wait, what? Putting aside the fact that women do tend to enjoy sex at least as much as men, rendering the entire debate moot, why wouldn’t it be evolutionarily important for women to enjoy sex just like men? After all, don’t they have to agree to sex for sex to occur?
Oh, wait, I think I know where he’s going here.
That is to say, women don’t need to experience any pleasure for reproduction to occur. They simply must be there and take the man’s seed.
That … only makes sense if you assume that evolution has designed men to be rapists and women to be rape victims.
Female pleasure is as of now, harder to accomplish than male due to placement of nerve endings (clitoris) and hormonal differences (testosterone)
Well, I’m no expert on hormones or nerve endings but my informal studies and, er, fieldwork, have suggested to me that female sexual pleasure isn’t some weird unattainable thing seen rarely in nature, like the snow leopard or a Trump supporter who isn’t a racist.
So for what reason do people feel like its the man’s fault for a woman not getting off when their pleasure isn’t to be prioritized to begin with? Naturally, their pleasure doesn’t even matter. Or at least I couldn’t find any reason as to why it would
And with that attitude, you’re probably never going to see female sexual pleasure in the wild.
In another thread, Salutextm cited the results of a weird and tiny study of literally only 15 college couples — which found levels of the so-called “love hormone” oxytocin decreasing in the women after kissing — as proof that women really don’t enjoy this rather common sexual activity that women, on average, definitely do enjoy, in many cases, like, a lot.
“Do women subject themselves to things they don’t want to do for some ulterior motive?” he asked, baffled.
Why else would women engage with men if they do not find most men physically sexually attractive … or barely receive any physical sexual pleasure in most acts involving their man?
Not all the commenters on Incels.co agreed with Salutextm’s hypotheses.
“All a Woman wants is to be fucked hard by Chad and then ignored,” declared IAmJAcksBrokenHeart.
A commenter called Huntedbyhate went even further, suggesting that the fact that women do feel sexual pleasure was really the heart of the problem. His proposed “solution” to this alleged problem was rather gruesome.
“I wish that all females had their clits cut off so they couldn’t experience pleasure,” he wrote. “More foids for us and fewer for Chad.”
It’s not altogether clear why he thinks the “foids” — that is, women — who’ve had their genitals forcibly mutilated would flock to the men who had actually called for this horrific practice. But that’s incel logic for you.
Despite these critics, a significant portion of the commenters seemed to agree that female pleasure doesn’t matter, or at the very least it shouldn’t.
“Their pleasure doesn’t matter,” asserted Danzai. “Foids were made to make babies, not enjoy themselves in it.”
“Why would the pleasure of a toilet matter?” added Insomniac.
Once again, the regulars on Incels.co have made it clear why the women who are refusing to have sex with them — which would be all women, everywhere, on planet earth — are making the right decision.
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I thought I read somewhere that an orgasm from the vagina haver assists with likelihood that a conception will happen? I could be wrong about that though.
At the very least, if they experience pleasure, they’re more likely to agree to having lots of sex, thus increasing the chances of pregnancy.
And off topic, but did everyone see this?
https://motherboard.vice.com/amp/en_us/article/a3xgq5/why-wont-twitter-treat-white-supremacy-like-isis-because-it-would-mean-banning-some-republican-politicians-too?__twitter_impression=true
Twitter is bad at banning Nazis because the algorithm would inevitably sweep up a lot of Republicans and they don’t want to deal with the fallout that would generate.
A “toilet”? Am I missing something?
Oh, incels.
http://www.sabinabecker.com/media/where-is-the-clitoris.jpg
Incels, incels, INCELS.
You see no difference between having sex and taking a shit.
Only incels can’t see why incels don’t attract women.
I admit that sometimes I’m not really focused on my own pleasure because sometimes I’m just in the mood to make Mr. Parasol really really happy. But he believes in returning the favor, so it all balances out in the end.
Not gonna lie, I have a really hard time having an orgasm. A lot of time when it’s just me I can’t even get myself there every time. One of the things that made my love so amazing to me is that he see’s that as a challenge and never stops trying even if I just can’t get there every time we make love. Other people I had been with got really discourage when I couldn’t get there and a lot of times I felt like faking it. So yeah it matters to guys as well.
“Do people who are not me exist?” says man with head up his own ass.
WWTH, I read – and I don’t know if it’s accurate – that the muscle movement of the orgasm helps the sperm along its way, keeps it from just dripping out. Also, when you are trying to conceive they tell you to stay on your back for a while preferably with your legs up to keep the sperm in there. Presumably sticking around for the orgasm is a reason to stay on your back, making conception more likely.
The incels are not wrong (did I really just say that?) that a better design would have positioned the clitoris so that it would receive more stimulation during vaginal penetration. But then most dudes have tongues and fingers, so… And most dudes also have imaginations. Incels, not so much.
Have these clowns forgotten that sex itself isn’t necessary for reproduction these days? If sperm meeting egg is all that matters, then just grab a turkey baster and you’re ready to rock!
@Lainy
Well, you probably already know that you are not alone in this. I basically never did with my last/only partner. In theory I didn’t want to put too much pressure on him (I am on the anti-depression/anxiety medication which has bad sexual side effects so I knew it was really going to be a challenge) thinking that it would just result in such frustration for us and kill the mood even more. However over time since I didn’t put ANY pressure he basically gave up trying altogether. Looking back on it, even if it didn’t succeed every time emotionally I wanted him to try a little bit for me, but I didn’t know how to ask for this. It was a huge problem and for me was a big part of why we broke up. The sad part is, I’d like to say I learned something from it but if it came up again with another partner I’m not sure I would have a better idea of what to say to him.
Also, I thought that men can have an orgasms without having the semen come out? Wouldn’t that negate the “men need to have an orgasm for reproduction” theory? I’m not sure how it all works but it sounds like major BS to me.
I mean once a man gets a vasectomy he can still have an orgasm or no man would ever get one.
@Aaron
I assumed women=toilet because they’re worthless/awful/full of crap
Any heterosexual woman who is trying to get pregnant knows that having lots of sex helps this actually happen. A woman who enjoys having sex with her male partner is probably going to have an easier time getting pregnant if there are no other extenuating circumstances (fertility issues).
I remember seeing a Discovery channel type documentary with actual footage of the inside of a woman’s vaginal canal and her cervix showing the contractions during orgasm. The cervix will actually dip itself into the deposited semen…so YEAH…female pleasure has a purpose.
Disregarding an intimate partner’s pleasure is a very effective way of guaranteeing that partner will not want to have another sexual experience with you. Comparing a woman to a toilet will guarantee that you will never view a woman as anything but an object to shit on.
So incels, if women are toilets, incels are sewage tanks.
@Aaron
In Japanese, “肉便器” (niku benki, literally “meat toilet”) is a derogatory term for a promiscuous woman. It’s used a fair bit in hentai and erotic games, and while this might not necessarily be the origin of the use of the word “toilet” to describe women in the post in question, the incel community often seems to overlap with toxic geekdom and anime fandom quite a bit.
@Knitting Cat Lady
I respectfully disagree. Toilets and sewage tanks are connected, after all ?
I’d assume “toilet” because you pee and shit into toilets, and (theoretically, if you’re an incel) ejaculate into women, meaning that women are nothing but a receptacle for a waste product of the male body.
Pardon me, I need to go scrub the inside of my mind out now for having figured that one out. At least this view doesn’t treat semen as liquid fucking gold?
OT: Meanwhile, on Twitter, manflake has a sad because a woman beekeeper describes male bees losing their junk in a manner that offends his fee-fees:
https://twitter.com/dstaikos/status/1121119825076654080
?
Because you want it to flush?
>>>>>The “involuntarily” celibate fellows who’ve branded themselves incels may not be getting any sex, but that doesn’t stop them from thinking, and theorizing, about sex, much in the way someone blind from birth might theorize about what it’s like to see.
Oh, when I was a virgin I thought and theorized a lot about what sex is like, and I’m sure most virgins do the same. But I did it *privately*, in my own head, and didn’t publicly proclaim myself an *expert* on sex.
As about evolution supporting forced sex or ignoring female pleasure – technically true in *some* species, but then again in some species the female eats the male after mating, and I don’t see incels suggesting that. It is certainly *not* true in primates or humans.
>>>>or a Trump supporter who isn’t a racist.
I am a Trump supporter. He obviously knows his job: the economy is doing fine, and America’s word and influence is once again taken seriously abroad both by its allies and by its enemies. What is more, Trump wisely stays out of foreign wars he can avoid.
True, the chattering classes (journalists, academics, etc.) cannot stand him, but academics and journalists – in the USA and abroad – are, in effect, life’s incels: they claim expertise in numerous fields without ever experiencing them. Most political science professors couldn’t be elected dog catcher.
Like incels’ outrage at “normies”, journalists and professors’ outrage at Trump is due to him doing well while ignoring or despising them and their theories. Both incels and professors fear this means they wasted their life becoming “experts” about something they do not, in fact, know anything about, and never did themselves. They’re right.
Cisgender men do not need to orgasm to release sperm.
It is why the pullout method is so ineffective.
Just saying
@victorious parasol
Actually, this is my preferred formula for sex. I mean, I want it to be enjoyable for all parties all the time, but I like focussing on giving my partner orgasms and the alternate periods where I’m relaxing and someone is focussed on my pleasure means that I don’t have to feel guilty for taking my mind off of what will maximize their pleasure and can enjoy my own pleasure to the fullest.
Even times when mutual, simultaneous orgasm happens doesn’t mean that one person enjoys their orgasm exactly equally with the other. I think it’s great if people have permission to take turns relaxing into pleasure and turns focussed on giving pleasure.
This is not, of course, my recipe that everyone else must/should follow. But it’s definitely my preferred recipe in my own relationships.
@calmdown
Yeah I get that. You always want someone to try. I know I’m not alone with this issue but I got to admit it does make me feel really insecure about it. Like there is something wrong with me that I can’t do this even on my own. I have to do things a very specific way to get an orgasm and it really annoys me. I do really wish I wasn’t like this but I’m trying to accept it.
@calmdown
Yes, men are capable of having a “dry orgasm” in which they orgasm without ejaculating. So, yes, they can reach climax and still not be leading to any possibility of reproduction.
Also, semen and sperm are not the same thing. Semen is the fluid that contains the sperm in suspension and is made in the seminal vesicles, not the testes. So, when a man has a vasectomy and the vas deferens that connects to the testes is cut, that just means that sperm doesn’t get into the semen any more, not that the man doesn’t produce or ejaculate semen. After a vasectomy nothing really changes except that there isn’t sperm in the semen, but sperm only makes up a tiny amount of a man’s semen anyway. Men still orgasm and ejaculate as before.
I’m flabbergasted to find out that incels feel that female pleasure doesn’t matter. Who knew!
That’s what I was thinking. If reproduction is the only purpose, then there’s no reason anyone should ever have sex again.
So, the glorious incel revolution will simply lead to everyone being incels. Problem… solved?
@personalpest.
Don’t worry, should ever an incel ever conceive a child with a woman they will happily disappear from view.
I’m tired, so I hope this makes some sense.