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“The default setting for romantic relationships is abusive toward men,” angry Men’s Rights grandpa Paul Elam declares

Paul Elam, mad about something

By David Futrelle

Remember this guy? Once upon a time, Paul Elam, founder of the misogynistic hate site A Voice for Men and once one of the world’s more (in)famous Men’s Rights activists, was a mainstay in the virtual pages of We Hunted the Mammoth.

Then the Men’s Rights movement in general, and Elam in particular, was upstaged by even more reprehensible misogynist movements from Gamergate to the alt-right. In 2016, having trouble raising money to keep his site and himself going, Elam naturally declared victory and announced he was retiring from the Men’s Rights activism industry.

In 2017, he unretired, but he’s never regained his former, er, glory. Still, he soldiers on. He continues to post videos on YouTube on his A Near for Men An Ear for Men channel. He offers $120 an hour “consulting” services via Skype to men on such subjects as “relationship issues” (he has no training as a therapist), “divorce strategies” (he’s not a lawyer) and “diabetes management” (he’s not a doctor). And he continues to share his “Red Pill” wisdom on Facebook and Twitter, the latter of which he’s returned to on a new account despite being permabanned some time ago.

So why am I even bringing him up? Well, I ran across this recent, uh, insight from him and I thought I should share it with you.

Paul Elam
Yesterday at 9:50 AM · 
#redpillrelationships What most men need to know, yet few do, is that the default setting for romantic relationships is abusive toward men. It places men in the role of vassal, serving m’lady’s needs, wants and whims with equal passion. Not in exchange for love, but for simply being tolerated. This is very hard for men to see early on but becomes very apparent with time.

MRAs claim to care about abused men, but don’t actually do anything to help them in any tangible way, like setting up hotlines or shelters. (The only shelter for men in the US was set up by a feminist Domestic Violence organization that MRAs once tried to defund.) Instead, MRAs post shit like this, conflating actual abusive behavior by women with, well, women expecting to be treated with a modicum of consideration by their male partners.

But of course “wisdom” like this resonates with Elam’s remaining fans.

Clark Sands And that, toleration we men mistake for love. Most of these women have no clue what love is.. A means to an end is, what we have become and when the end comes, Men lose! Sometimes their lives. Really listening to women before, you ever get involved and I mean, listen closely and she will reveal her true self quickly. With your help Paul, I am a different man today and how, I do three things every time, I meet women, Screen, Screen, Screen and It keeps me from ever walking down that road again. Shit, most of them. you have to put in the rear view mirror. It's a tough road trying to find a women who lives in objective reality and is stable and not an emotional reasoner. Crazy is everywhere! lmao
George D. Misoyianis I love all these so called strong women telling us how independent they are while at the same time they are reaching for our wallets. LOL
Trevor Binnall I stopped dating western women 7 years ago and have since then enjoyed beautiful mutually beneficial relationships with women who value me and treat me like a man. Currently i’m in Peru and have no complaints regarding the women here. Isn’t it sad that the most empowered and ‘liberated’ women on earth have the least amount of respect for men?
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Paul Elam
Paul Elam Yeah, they are empowered and liberated in their own pointed little heads. In reality, they are slaves to a victim identity. The only power they have is that which misguided, gynocentric men grant them.
Michael Mehalko If a female is interested she might put forth all the effort of placing herself in my proximity and thats about the extent of the effort. Dynamic change somewhat once i sleep with them but it seems there is nearly a motral sin in love and raomance in actually caring or worsre showing that i care. Amazing but i guess it all makes sense in the pure nature of sex. Funny how females get off when i dont give a shit but when i do they just sort of go limp (or stays) much like my dick does when theyre unattractive or overweight.

A veritable Algonquin Round Table here, huh?

I scrolled back a little on his Twitter, and found a couple more #RedPillRelationships pearls from ol’ Paul:

https://twitter.com/MraPsychic/status/1120213012026134528
https://twitter.com/MraPsychic/status/1121021373500088321

So thoughtful, so wise!

In case you’re wondering — I was — Elam’s A Voice for Men continues, though it’s not altogether clear who’s involved in running it these days. It squeezes out a few articles a week, which seem to consist of turgid exegeses of “gynocentrism” alternating with the sort of outrage-bait AVFM used to be semi-famous for.

Paul himself contributes from time to time. In February, for example, he wrote a 64-word post titled “A message to Democrats from Paul Elam and A Voice for Men” in which he declared that anyone voting for a Democrat is

literally voting for the murder of children. Given that, it is the editorial position of A Voice for Men that you should have been aborted, you degenerate Nazi fuck.

Other recent posts on the site have included such gems as:


And then there are all of … these.

I have no idea what’s going on with these, or why there are so many of them, but I don’t care enough to read any of them to find out.

So, big congratulations to Paul Elam and to A Voice for Men for continuing to exist, I guess, despite there being no real need for either or you.

We Hunted the Mammoth is independent and ad-free, and relies entirely on readers like you for its survival. If you appreciate our work, please send a few bucks our way! Thanks!

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Lainy
Lainy
2 years ago

This really annoys me because I talk a lot with men and boys who are in real abusive relationships with women. Men who do take slaps and punches from their girlfriend because they are much smaller then them and that some his makes it okay. One friend I’m trying to helps is with a woman that threatens to kill herself when he tries to turn the conversation to them breaking up. She has cut herself in front of him and told him if he breaks up with her and she kills herself it’s his fault. He’s a really sweet guy so obviously he doesn’t want that. I tell him time and time again it’s manipulation tatic and their relationship is mentally abusive towards him. I see things like this a lot so when people like Paul open their big mouths I get pissed because they are doing nothing to help actual abused men and boys who really so need some help.

Castrating Harpy
Castrating Harpy
2 years ago

I’m having a hard time reading the quoted comment posted by Clark Sands not because it’s misogynistic garbage but because, he puts commas, in weird, places making his, point difficult to, grasp.

Dafuq?

Also, I love that the robo-posted “articles” from AVFM have feminine-appearing bylines. Women must love that site for so many to write for it!

serrana
serrana
2 years ago

The next time I’m able to adopt a kitten, I think I’ll name her The Automatic Outgroup Derogation of Men. Thea, for short.

Anonymous
Anonymous
2 years ago

Lainy –

You make an excellent point. It is a symptom, I think, of the “victimization” of our society. No longer is it enough to claim (rightly or wrongly) that the social status in romantic relationships is *unfair* to men, or that this or that social practice is *wrong*. (I very much doubt it but it’s not the point) .

To have a claim for justice, men – like everyone else that days – must be seen as “victims” who were “abused” but somehow still are “survivors”, etc., etc.

As you point out, when everybody is a victim, nobody is; it might seem “caring” but the end result is that those who *really are* abused victims – those whose partner beats up and threatens – are ignored in the hubbub.

Ellesar
Ellesar
2 years ago

I have 2 grown sons and do have some thoughts about what could happen if they were to meet women who are prepared to exploit their good nature’s.

But the idea that they have no power is just ridiculous. They know what they want and don’t want and are hardly going to be doormats to anyone.

Neutral Good
Neutral Good
2 years ago

Not gonna lie, Feminist Clitoral Propaganda and the Politics of Bonking sounds like some nu-wave punk lesbian band’s first album. With the singles being Future Matriarchal Gynocracy, Feminist Zero Sum Game, and Automatic Outgroup Derogation.

casta
casta
2 years ago

Lainy says: “This really annoys me because I talk a lot with men and boys who are in real abusive relationships with women.”

Wow, really, a lot?? Not saying they don’t exist but who knew there were so many abusive women out there. Are you a therapist?

Lainy
Lainy
2 years ago

Casta

Reread. I said I talk a lot with men and boys. As in I speak with men and boys who are abused and talk with them quite frequently. There are far more abusive men then women out there and yes some of the abused men/boys I talk to are abuse by another man/ boy there in a relationship with. I’m not a therapist. I go to highschools/middleschools in my district ever year to talk to them about dating abuse and sexual abuse. I started this when I was 16, after my own rape. For a lot of teenage boys, it is the first time they are told that its not okay if their girlfriend hits them. That it is abusive if this happens. So when I have teenage boys that come up to me after my talks and ask if things like “my girlfriend doesn’t let me be friends with other girls, does that count?” and things like this its really sad. Also keep in mind I’m counting anyone 18 and older as a man. My friend who has the abusive relationship right now is 20 and quite naive when it comes to love.

Lainy
Lainy
2 years ago

I’ve talked about this here before. I started doing this after my own rape and abusive relationship.

Anonymous
Anonymous
2 years ago

Lainy’s not wrong. My best friend was engaged to a women who did the same thing.She would beat him ruthlessly( he showed me the bruises), and he was a sweet guy who wouldn’t attack a woman even to defend himself. When he got tired of the abuse( and her anger destroying all his friendships) and ended the engagement, she also would call and threaten to kill herself if he didn’t get back together.

Fortunately, my friend finally left her and is in a new relationship with a very nice woman. I feel happy for him.

Bina
2 years ago

Everytime AVFM says “Automatic Outgroup Derogation of Men”, a misogynist gets his boner.

Either that, or we’re all supposed to take a swig of whatever we happen to be drinking.

Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy

Good old Bettina Arndt, still peddling the same shite she’s been peddling for decades now.

Can anyone explain to me what the ‘logic’ is in the multiple posts on Officer Mohamed Noor? Obviously Elam et al perceive something relevant to men’s rights here, but I’m at a loss.
Is it just that he killed a white woman?

Anonymous
Anonymous
2 years ago

H’m – “women don’t want to be loved, they just want to be desired to boost their ego”.

1). I am shocked – SHOCKED! – to discover that women want to be desired by men and that this boosts their ego. Who ever heard of such a thing? The sluts!

2). “He just *desires* you, I *love* you, but you rejected for him to boost your ego” means, in practice, “he is your boyfriend, I’m the creepy stalker you’ve got a restraining order against”.

Lainy
Lainy
2 years ago

@ Anonymous and Jojo

I just hate this kind of stuff because there are actual abused men and boys out there. not Paul’s “if they don’t have sex with you it’s abused” bullshit but actually stuff. Men are more physical with abuse and will do far more damage then women abusers. Women abusers tend to use a lot more threats and mental abuse but it’s all horrible. No one deserves any type of abuse. I just thought this was an alright place to talk about men in actual abusive relationships.

Also I’m sorry because women abusers sounds weird but I really hate using male or female even though that might sound better. I don’t know, I don’t like to take away the humanity part of it.

Lainy
Lainy
2 years ago

@Anonymous

2). “He just *desires* you, I *love* you, but you rejected for him to boost your ego” means, in practice, “he is your boyfriend, I’m the creepy stalker you’ve got a restraining order against”.

Lol sugar, back ground music for my life right there. That was a good one.

Bookworm in hijab
Bookworm in hijab
2 years ago

I had to laugh (sort of) at the copy-and-paste nature of so many of those titles.

Has anyone here read the Predictive Text Harry Potter (https://botnik.org/content/harry-potter.html)? Who here thinks Elam does the same think in all his articles, only with far less skill…or humour…

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
2 years ago

Harry Potter and the Automatic Outgroup Derogation of Men

…oh sorry, what? I was a little hypnotized by the repetitive article titles.

literally voting for the murder of children

Democrats aren’t the ones putting children in cages, forcibly ripping them from their parents, repealing child labor laws, and taking away access to clean air, clean water, health care, and nutritious school lunches. Real live actual children.

Anyone who views babies as a tool for punishing and controlling women forfeits any right to opine about the welfare of those babies.

Edit: ninja’d by Bookworm!

John
John
2 years ago

The really funny thing about this is that it’s a Red Pilled conclusion (not assumption, but conclusion) that this is “The Golden Age of the Alpha Male” exactly because there is so much fucking soy out there. No one gives a shit about beta men. Do you even lift, Paul?

John
John
2 years ago

@Lainy

Men are more physical with abuse and will do far more damage then women abusers.

Yep. It’s impossible for me to take physical abuse towards men from women seriously, exactly because of this. Of course, men are much more capable of all sorts of violence, including suicide.

That’s where “White Knights” come in. Consider (and I hate the term, and it’s not my lived experience) “divorce rape.” This is not something inflicted on men by women, this is something inflicted on men by other men on the behest of women.

The problem is that we do have a “will to vengeance.” See any superhero movie ever.

Anonymous
Anonymous
2 years ago

Neutral Good –

Not to mention, “the femoids”. If there is one thing good about incels / MGTOW movement, it’s that just about every deregatory term they have for women would make a *great* band name.

Reynard
Reynard
2 years ago

Sorry what the heck does “Algonquin Round Table” mean? I want to give you the benefit of the doubt but I’m kinda seriously side-eying that phrase.

Talonknife
Talonknife
2 years ago

Sometimes I think about the fact that my college career feels like I’m fooling academics with doctorates and decades of experience into thinking I have any idea at all what I’m talking about.

Then I read a Paul Elam post and realize I’m way more advanced at the concept of stringing together coherent thoughts and I suddenly feel much better.

Anonymous
Anonymous
2 years ago

Reynard –

The “Algonquin round table” was a set of literary wits (Dorothy Parker, Tellulah Bankhead, Franklin Pierce Adams, Alexander Wollcott, etc.) who would meet regularly in the Algonquin hotel in New York in the 30s and 40s.

Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy

The Algonquin Round Table was where Dorothy Sayers and friends used to lunch regularly. It’s become a synonym for razor sharp wit and intelligence.

Weatherwax
Weatherwax
2 years ago
occasional reader
occasional reader
2 years ago

Hmm, i am sorry for my ignorance, but what “Automatic Outgroup Derogation of Men” refers to ? Even with a translator tool, i do not get something clear and understandable. Is it something saying that men are always excluded from some debates or talkings ?

E
E
2 years ago

Yikes, lovely healthy attitude there…

On topic for we hunted the mammoth, but largely off topic for this post, I found an interesting article:

TLDR: 4 chan trolls pretend to be black women on twitter in order to make black feminism look bad.

https://slate.com/technology/2019/04/black-feminists-alt-right-twitter-gamergate.html

rugbyyogi
rugbyyogi
2 years ago

Oh “occasional reader” I’m assuming from your comment that you are not a native speaker of English.

I am a native speaker of English and lived for a number of years with one of these meninists (my ex became that way, I didn’t choose him like that), so I heard a lot of this kind of talk. So I have more than a passing familiarity with this mindset.

That being said – you are having a hard time comprehending the phrase because it is gibberish. When it comes to automatic translation – gibberish in, gibberish out.

They are trying to sound like sociologists with terms like ‘in group’ and ‘out group’. They are saying that men are always being treated like the ‘out group’ – automatically and without regard to other characteristics. This is complete nonsense in terms of wider society.

It does, of course, happen in some circumstances – for example – in patriarchal societies where women cannot speak freely in front of men and cannot express humour or their own opinions, men will sometimes be treated as a member of an out-group if they try to socialise with an all female group. Chat and laughter will stop when a man comes in the room. I’ve seen it. But that does not mean men are automatically treated that way in all circumstances and it happens to women, too and more often.

Crip Dyke
Crip Dyke
2 years ago

@Occasional Reader:

Hmm, i am sorry for my ignorance, but what “Automatic Outgroup Derogation of Men” refers to?

I thought it was pretty funny, actually, because I had been exposed to the word “derogation” in the sense of “to dismiss because of perceived small worth” or “to grant something little value”, but only in pre-WW2 writing.

On the other hand, once I went to law school, “derogation” was everywhere. It’s a constant theme in statutory interpretation, in appeals of administrative actions or the decisions of administrative tribunals, even in debates over constitutional separation of powers. The legal version of “derogation” which means “a suspension (sometimes partial) of the action or enforcement of a law or legal provision” is in constant use, however.

So although being well read I’d known of an obsolete use about treating something as if it had little value (in this case men), I never came across it in contemporary writing. This makes me wonder if they’re not actually intending to use “denigration” and getting the word wrong.

Of course, if they’re using the “little value” definition then the headlines aren’t wrong, but there are definitely more effective ways to communicate their meaning than with words that went out of style 75 years ago.

Crip Dyke
Crip Dyke
2 years ago

Actually I should add that “derogation of men’s rights” is very much an acceptable use of the legal term, which makes the other headlines all the more … interesting.

Nanny Oggs Bosom
Nanny Oggs Bosom
2 years ago

I see AVFM are keeping up their “great” writing standards, even without Paulie at the helm permanently. (Sarcasm)

Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
2 years ago

@occasional reader
No, Google Translate is inadequate to this task.

Automatic outgroup derogation of men means “Paul Elam is a whiny and also dangerous individual.”

Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
2 years ago

What most men need to know, yet few do, is that the default setting for romantic relationships is abusive toward men. It places men in the role of vassal, serving m’lady’s needs, wants and whims with equal passion. Not in exchange for love, but for simply being tolerated. This is very hard for men to see early on but becomes very apparent with time.

Few men know about this abusive-toward-men default setting for a romantic relationship between a man and a woman?

And yet this abusive-toward-men default setting for a romantic relationship between a man and a woman becomes very apparent to a man after he’s spent some time in a romantic relationship with a woman?

So most men haven’t had a romantic relationship with a woman?

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
2 years ago

@John

The really funny thing about this is that it’s a Red Pilled conclusion (not assumption, but conclusion) that this is “The Golden Age of the Alpha Male” exactly because there is so much fucking soy out there. No one gives a shit about beta men. Do you even lift, Paul?

Conclusions can be just as wrong as assumptions, if the underlying facts and reason are faulty.

I stopped taking you seriously at the unironic and capitalized use of “Alpha Male” and “Red Pilled”, but a 2010 meta-analysis in Fertility and Sterility found no link between soy consumption and reduced testosterone levels in human men. Do you even science, bro?

That’s where “White Knights” come in. Consider (and I hate the term, and it’s not my lived experience) “divorce rape.” This is not something inflicted on men by women, this is something inflicted on men by other men on the behest of women.

“Divorce rape”, also known as “child support and fair division of marital assets”. Contributing monetarily towards raising the children they sired is something “inflicted” on men? Somehow it’s unfair for both parties to start over on an equal financial footing?

It’s such a mystery why women don’t wish to remain partnered to men who dismiss their contributions and view them and their children as cash-sucking parasites. 🤔

occasional reader
occasional reader
2 years ago

> rugbyyogi
French, indeed.
Thank you for your input.
So, if i understand you correctly, the sentence refers to a feeling of exclusion from some groups ? I suppose this can be considered as part of their whining about their entitlements ?

> Crip Dyke
Thank you for the information.
Indeed, i think derogation is quite the same thing in France. We use the term when there is a legal authorization to do something which is usually not allowed. As an example, you can ask a derogation to use a vehicule of your workplace to help in a move.
So, you may be right with their use of the old definition you provide, because even knowing the usual definition of each term of the sentence, i was unable to get the meaning of it, especially with the lack of context those memes provide. Not that it makes the meaning better, but hey ! Artistic licence, maybe ?

> Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
Ha ha, yeah, maybe, but should not it be “Jewel Eldora” rather than Paul Elam ? Unless they are the same person ?

Not Edward
Not Edward
2 years ago

“What most men need to know, yet few do, is that the default setting for romantic relationships is abusive toward men. It places men in the role of vassal, serving m’lady’s needs, wants and whims with equal passion. Not in exchange for love, but for simply being tolerated.”

I think one of the large number of difficulties these a-holes face in having a successful relationship with anyone is that they appear to think a relationship is a commercial transaction in which they provide a penis and (if absolutely necessary) make nice, and in return get flattery and sex (which is what they think “love” is).
The idea that they would actually *want* to make someone else happy, enjoy their company for its own sake or place any value on someone’s affection for them never really crosses their minds. The result is that the occasional unwary woman mistakes their fake consideration in the interests of getting laid for genuine affection and doesn’t drop kick them into the gutter as she should. At s point shortly thereafter he decides he’s done enough to earn his flattery and sex and drops the act (since actually being pleasant and considering other people is *such* a chore) and she (if she is lucky) wonders how she ended up with this a-hole loser and dumps him or (if she is unlucky, or is insecure, or is frightened of him) wonders what she did wrong that suddenly he is behaving like a sh*t towards her, and tries to fix it, and another abusive relationship is born.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
2 years ago

John,

If soy makes men too unmanly to get laid and to reproduce much, then why is Asia the most popular continent? Why have men in various cultures that have a much more soy based diet than Europe, Africaand the Americas traditionally had managed to have so many children over the millenia?

I will just never understand this fragile masculinity fueled obsession with using a meat based diet to try and appear “alpha.” Congratulations, you went to the grocery store and bought lots of things from the meat freezer. It’s not like you slaughtered the cows with your bare hands or anything.

Also, if you’re worried about that sort of thing, you consume more estrogen eating meat and dairy than you do eating plants.

FGETC
FGETC
2 years ago

TIL that being desired (a rather passive activity) is the same thing as controlling people. But only male people. So if I don’t want to be an abuser, I have to make myself as undesirable as possible.
And yet, something tells me that Elam wouldn’t be happy with that, either…

FGETC
FGETC
2 years ago

@ WWTH

It’s not like you slaughtered the cows with your bare hands or anything.

I helped slaughter a pig once. Not my favourite memory, but I had been wondering where my moustache comes from.

Bakunin
Bakunin
2 years ago

If soy phytoestrogens were feminizing in humans, the trans community would be all over it. I don’t know any women cramming their fridges full of tofu that aren’t vegan, so… gonna have to say it doesn’t work like that.

Tofu is yummy tho

contrapangloss
contrapangloss
2 years ago

@John:

Yep. It’s impossible for me to take physical abuse towards men from women seriously, exactly because of this

The hell you say?

This is some toxic crud you are spreading. Abuse does not require extreme physical damage to be mentally and emotionally harmful, and men being abused should still be taken seriously.

Just because a man is big or strong enough for assholes like you to think they should be able to “take it” doesn’t frigging mean they should!

That right there is why it’s so fricken hard for abused men to report abuse and get out of cruddy situations. That eighth there is why it can be difficult for men to even RECOGNIZE that a relationship is not normal and is toxic.

The heck.

Stop it.

contrapangloss
contrapangloss
2 years ago

Sorry for the rant, but people dismissing entire classes of intimate partner violence and abuse on general principle just really, really, really annoys me.

I’m going to go chill out elsewhere until I can respond civilly again.

Sorry, again.

JenniferAndLightning
JenniferAndLightning
2 years ago

@Lainy

I have spent the majority of my legal career working with victims of domestic violence and sexual violence. Locally, I am recognized as an expert on both, although I have also done other types of legal work.

People use the term “abuse” to describe a wide range of behavior and while all of which is unacceptable, severity varies substantially. The following is true both statistically, and in my own experiences:

*The perpetrators of domestic and sexual violence are disproportionately men and the victims are disproportionately women.

*The are, however, a substantial minority of female perpetrators with male victims. There are are also female perpetrators with female victims and male perpetrators with male victims.

*When abuse is broken down by categories based on severity (again NONE of these categories are acceptable), we find that the more lethal and dangerous the violence is, the more disproportionate the statistics are.

*At the most severe level (lethal violence) the perpetrators are overwhelmingly men and the victims are overwhelmingly women. Instances where this is reversed are rare.

I am NOT justifying or defending women who are perpetrators. I have represented male victims against female perpetrators, including those whose abuse included felony level and life endangering violence and stalking. The thing to remember is that even in categories where only 1-5% of victims are men, that still amounts to millions of men.

Men do suffer from domestic and sexual violence perpetrated by women (as you know firsthand), but, on a macro level, domestic and sexual violence are gendered crimes that are deeply rooted in misogyny and sexism and they cannot be adequately addressed by a totally gender neutral approach.

We can extend services and support to men who are victimized (and prosecute women who perpetrate and address same-sex victims and abusers) without glossing over the gendered dynamics at play.

LG
LG
2 years ago

“Men are more physical with abuse and will do far more damage then women abusers. Women abusers tend to use a lot more threats and mental abuse but it’s all horrible.”

What the fuck did you just say?

No. No no no no no no no. The “men are physically abusive, women are emotionally abusive,” myth is some bullshit, and pretty misogynistic at that.

Male abusers use every trick in the book. They do not restrict themselves. They use verbal abuse, gaslighting, lies, blackmail, suicide threats, etc. with just as much ease as female abusers. And then they *also* (generally) have size and strength and social power to their advantage.

Yes, women can be abusive but there’s a reason this deck is stacked in favor of men.

John
John
2 years ago

Context, folks. Context. When I talked above of soy, I was talking about the men, not the plant. I actually like soy with my mammoths.

Further, if men were allowed to hit back, intimate partner violence against men would shrink to a very low level, very quickly. This is not a state of affairs I would support, for obvious reasons, so other solutions are needed and need to be taken seriously, of course.

Overall, there is a feeling in the manosphere that the legal system has been weaponized against men.

Most people who post here post regularly. I’m not here to spout the party line so much as give it a good spin. My experience with anti-manosphere sites is that very often, the lowest fruit is being plucked.

Elam is irrelevant for a reason.

Diego Duarte
Diego Duarte
2 years ago

@John

Further, if men were allowed to hit back, intimate partner violence against men would shrink to a very low level, very quickly. This is not a state of affairs I would support, for obvious reasons, so other solutions are needed and need to be taken seriously, of course.

Uh, men have been allowed to hit back since the dawn of time, that is why domestic abuse and femicide are so normalized that a woman can report death threats, again and again, and still be murdered in front of a fucking police station during a custody exchange.

Currently I’m in Peru and have no complaints regarding the women here

Maybe because we are the 2nd country in Latin America with most rapes per capita and about the 3rd in the entire world? Gee, I fucking wonder why this guy is so elated. He shouldn’t get comfortable though, that shit is changing fast.

Funnily enough, as an immigration attorney, I’ve noticed that immigrants from the US tend to be libertarian.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
2 years ago

I’m just on a quick work break and don’t have time to track down studies right now, but I know I’ve read about research showing that male on female violence is not any more likely to result in arrest than female on male violence, so the notion that men don’t have any legal means to fight back while women do is just false. I mean, IPV is not taken seriously enough whatever the genders involved, but the system is not uniquely stacked against men.

And per usual, the MRM and its apologists completely ignore male victims with male perpetrators.

Christopher Green
Christopher Green
2 years ago

John:

“Divorce rape” is your term for child support?

You are the worst.

Lainy
Lainy
2 years ago

@LG

Yes I know that men are mentally abusive. I was in a horrible abusive relationship . I’m just saying your going to see way more men killing their romantic partners then women. Men use far more violence then women do. I think in America it’s something like 3 women a day are killed by a romantic partner. My first boyfriend used lies, blackmail, threats, gaslighting and suicide threat. Even came so far as to come to me at school with cuts all over his arms to show me he would do. Specifically because he knew I had great sympathy for people with cutting issues. When it all failed at the end he used physical violence against me. Could a woman hurt me in the same way? yes, especial depending on the type of woman, I’m very small but if a woman grabbed my by my hair threw me down and then starting choking me I probably would have had a greater chance of fighting back then what I did. Almost every man I meet is bigger and stronger then I am. The creepy ones use this to intimidate me or threaten me. I’ve met many many many women who are bigger and stronger then me as well. Guess who has never used that to intimidate me.

@JenniferAndLightning

I know that these are gender crime. I know the number of female victims out number the male victims by great numbers. All I was trying to say is that this asshole does not help men who are abused by spouting his ” hey if she doesn’t want to sleep with you, she’s abusing” bullshit.

@John

Fuck off with your “I can’t take men physically abused by women seriously” bullshit right now.

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