By David Futrelle
A couple of months ago, Gillette infuriated Men’s Rights Activists and other terrible people with an ad challenging toxic masculinity and suggesting that maybe it wasn’t such a good thing for men and boys to go around bullying and harassing people.
Now Gillette has a new ad out that seems designed to enrage, well, pretty much the same exact mob that came after them then. The ad, promoting Gillette Venus razors for women, features Internet-famous model Anna O’Brian — a.k.a Glitter and Lasers — posing triumphantly on a beach in a two-piece swimsuit, arms raised to the sky.
This isn’t the first time a Gillette ad has featured a woman in a swimsuit. But this particular woman happens to be fat, and so a vast horde of angry men (mostly) have gone online to attack Gillette for “glorifying obesity” and surrendering to the cuck soyboy hairy feminist woke SJW overlords. These health-conscious gentlemen and ladies have also mocked the model herself, calling her a predictable assortment of names, suggesting that she smells, and predicting that she’ll die soon.
On Twitter, quite a few decided to play the role of a “concerned” doctor:
Never mind that fat does not automatically mean unhealthy. Never mind that thin people can be unhealthy. Never mind that diets can be so unhealthy as to be dangerous. And never mind that fat shaming is not only not an effective way to inspire people to lose weight — and often causes its targets to gain weight — it’s also a threat to their health, both mental and physical.
Of course, quite a few of the commenters didn’t even bother to pretend that their complaints had anything to do with health. Most were not terribly original with their insults.
Other commenters pulled out all their favorite right-wing buzzwords for the occasion:
Some thought that this new ad, like Gillette’s “toxic masculity” ad in January, was really just a sneaky way to attack … men.
Over on the always despicable Breitbart, which noted that in addition to Anna, Gillette has also used trans activist Jazz Jennings in recent ads, the commenters were a bit blunter.
Well, I guess Gillette has started another “conversation,” as they like to say whenever they do something they know will provoke an angry mob. So sad that all it takes is a picture of a fat woman unapologetically wearing a bikini to unleash a wave of hate.
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So the MRAs complain about a woman being fat and a bunch of self-righteously pious fatshamers show up in the comments to agree. Nice.
I was talking with students about obesity stats just last week (we were focused on sociology and health). Obesity here in Aust is usually measured by BMI, which I find seriously problematic.
For example, my BMI puts me at overweight, bordering on obese. I don’t have any illusions about my size, but I’m literally not very big. So if the official figures say X percentage of Australians are obese, that’s a very, very wide net they’re casting.
Do other countries use BMI as the main criteria, do you folk know?
So, shot David an email to figure out if I got caught in the mod filter or if other wordpress type shenanigans happened.
Gist of disappearing comment was mostly sharing an interesting (to me) paper about how the actual metabolic “calories burned” really seems to be consistent across cultures, so the statement that we’re all overweight due to not having to go hunt/gather/work-hard isn’t necessarily true.
But… looking more at the thread, I think @Kupo’s most recent comment kinda covered most of the actual bases, from a much more appropriate place.
So, yeah. I guess I’m just going to second Kupo’s comment instead.
Anyone who hasn’t commented yet who desperately wants to share stories of how they lost weight or their neighbor’s friends second-cousin lost weight and kept it off in three simple steps… maybe don’t share.
Because I think in this thread (and most online forums and in most in person conversations) it’s really not going to “save” anyone. You probably aren’t going to succeed at getting anyone to buy into the same method of losing weight that you’ve (or the person you know) managed.
It’s most likely just going to hurt folks or just be irritating as heck.
So, please, give it a rest?
In the last year, I have seen many, many major corporations using a variety of LGBT, non-traditional models & mixed race families in their advertising.
Yeah, I know some are evil mega corps that are only cashing in on a social trend……but it normalizes progressive cultural attitudes.
And everytime I see one of these ads, I see corporate America giving the finger to Trump.
I have never seen a time when so many major corporations are at odds with the policies of the Republican party.
One of Gillette’s other marketing operations was paying to get its name put on the stadium where the 6-time Superbowl champion New England Soyboys football team plays.
@contrapangloss
It’s also pretty irritating when someone you weren’t telling what to do with themselves contradicts your experience by citing theirs, as if it’s somehow more valid, and then lumps you in with indefensible haters.
On the other hand, I may be mildly irritated, but kupo and a few others are genuinely distressed, so you are right and for my part I will shut up, because stressing people out is unnecessary and harmful.
Thanks to all of you ASSuming that I am fat phobic or that I want to hurt anyone, or that I have drunk the cultural koolaid of desperate skinniness, or even that I am fucking wrong.
ASSuming that me telling you those things in my original post was fat shaming or that I was being condescending or was telling people to “put down the cake and hit the gym” is deliberately ignoring what I said. As you may have guessed, I resent the fuck out of the attacks. I said absolutely nothing that justifies your hostility.
Tell me, why are some of you so sure I meant the ugly things you accused me of? I’m not unknown here. Have you ever heard me fat shame? Saying that being obese is a strain on the body isn’t fucking fat shaming. It’s telling you the goddamned truth. I wasn’t being condescending. I was trying to tell people that what people commonly think of as “dieting” is harmful and you shouldn’t do it. What I recommended is so mild that it has taken me three fucking years to lose 25 pounds. I am not dieting. I feel no superiority to those who have tried dieting and had the weight come back. I can hardly do that, because it happened to me about 6 times before I finally realized that that shit doesn’t work. And I know being obese doesn’t necessarily mean that you are unhealthy. I worked as a field archaeologist for 20 years, weighing between 240 and 260.
I will be 69 tomorrow (thanks for the great birthday surprise, btw) and I have experienced a lot of ups and downs. I finally quit gaining weight when I quit dieting. By that time I weighed 260 pounds. I’m 5’4″. I was very obese. I had some health issues that dropped me down to 250. But after that I didn’t gain anything significant for more than 10 years.
Then I decided that I had to make sure I kept my diabetes under control, because I lost two sisters to it, and I was not going to do that to my kids and grandkids. By doing what I recommended, including occasionally eating nice sugary deserts, my blood sugars are near normal about 60% of the time (and only a little higher than that almost all the rest of the time) and my most recent A1c was 5.9, which is still a little high, but not nearly as bad as it was. The weight loss is a nice side effect of trying to keep my vision, and my heart and kidneys functioning and not losing sensation or becoming hyper-sensitive in my toes or fingers. The side affect, after three years is that I weigh 225.
Don’t tell me people can’t lose weight. They can. And they can do it safely. What they can’t do is starve themselves and expect a good outcome. What they can’t do is lose “50 pounds by summer” as I saw on an ad recently. Not safely. Not permanently.
Tell me how I was being condescending. I’ve had time to reread what I said, and I realize that text doesn’t convey tone of voice well, but please tell me, those of you who attacked me, what about that post was condescending. I’ve been dealing with my obesity most of my adult life and that is a lot longer than some of you have been alive. I feel no contempt for fat people. I know that a person is not at some sort of “fault” for being fat. Fat people are fat for many reasons and none of them are the result of lack of discipline or poor self control. As someone who has dieted repeatedly, I know damned well I have discipline and self control. I lost several hundred pounds combined over about 20 years of dieting. All that discipline and self control got me was fatter. I don’t blame myself for that. I am not a self-hating fat person.
But you pretending that it is impossible to lose weight safely and that being obese is not harmful is fucking delusional. If you feel comfortable at your weight, whatever it is, good. I absolutely support you staying that way (as if it was any of my business). If you feel that the cost of doing what I recommended or something similar is too high compared to the worth of the possible improvement in your health, that is up to you, as an adult, to chose. I will continue what I am doing, not because I care about the weight, per se, but because I don’t want to end up like my younger sisters who are both dead now. And I will continue to lose weight, slowly, even though it won’t matter much to me. I check the scale about once every couple of months.
But don’t accuse me of fat shaming because I said something that is true. I know many of you have been terribly hurt by the way our culture treats fat people. That doesn’t give you the right to take it out on me. For those of you who didn’t attack me, or who simply disagreed with me, thank you. The rest of you can fuck right off.
P.S. The last time I got gang stomped was because I suggested that the woman playing Wonder Woman was too damned skinny to be an Amazon. I wasn’t skinny shaming then either, just suggesting that an Amazon is supposed to have a few muscles, and perhaps casting someone with some definition would be better, but my god, you would have thought I had personally attacked the women and called her mean things. I think it might have even been on this blog. I think that is pretty fucking ironic.
If people are irritated by the push back against diet industry talking points, or feel like they need to quit here for Wonkette? I don’t give a shit.
This is one of the few places I’ve ever felt safe discussing my history of eating disorders. In the “real world” the only people I’ve told about it are two best friends. One of whom also has a history of EDs. I feel like I can talk about it here partly because I’m a private person and I’m not posting with my real name, but partly because there is push back against the thin = healthy and thin = moral narrative running through our whole entire culture.
You have almost every space in the whole entire world to discuss weight loss tips and the badness of fat. Why is it so goddamn important to have this space to do it too? Can there not one be one place where weight loss isn’t encouraged? I’m not asking anyone to not try to lose weight. I’m not asking anyone to stop thinking losing weight is a good thing. I’m just asking it not be pushed here when it’s so clearly unwelcomed by so many of us. Is that really asking so much?
And Otrame,
Coming onto a post about misogynistic fat shaming to say “well, sometimes it’s bad to be fat” is no different than coming on to a post about about Islamaphobia to say “some Muslims are terrorists” or coming onto to a post about rape apologia to say “some women do lie about rape.” Even if it’s technically true, it’s functionally supportive of the bigotry being discussed and just not the time or place to bring it up.
Even though I personally find any diet or weight loss talk somewhat distressing, I don’t have a problem with someone talking about their weight loss efforts in an open thread, or a post that kind of morphs into an open thread organically. But it’s a whole different thing when it’s posted in response to misogynists directing abuse at women because of their weight. Just, pay attention to context, you know?
CW: discussion of suicidal ideation.
PSA: experts agree that exercise has little to no effect on weight loss.
That’s not to say exercise is useless, of course – it has a host of health benefits – but weight loss isn’t one of them. Calorie restriction is the only thing that leads to weight loss.
So my health history is a perfect storm for being fat, and I surprised myself by how teary I got typing all this out.
My genetics are “tall and large framed, with heavy bones, large but ill-defined muscle mass, and a tendency to get fat in later life.” I grew up on a farm, in a time and place where the entire district’s eating plan was structured around feeding men doing hard physical labour 12-14 hours a day. I was an adult before I found there were ways to cook veggies that didn’t involve boiling them, roasting them in a small lake of animal fat, or covering them in the district’s weird version of salad dressing (a mixture of sweetened condensed milk, vinegar, and flavoured with powdered mustard. I know, WTF??)
When I told a gynecologist my menstrual cycle was 35-40 days rather than 28, he said, “So, you fall pregnant easily, experience fairly light bleeding during your period, have a very sweet tooth and gain weight easily”. 100% correct, sir. So apparently that’s A Thing.
Now 50. I have hypothyroidism, psoriatic arthritis, hypertension, chronic nerve pain, sleep apnea and severe chronic depression. So I have a pathologically slow metabolism, limitations in the kind of exercise I can do, chronic pain and stiffness, persistent extreme fatigue, severe menopause symptoms, anhedonia and require high doses of drugs known to cause weight gain. Until very recently I woke up every day feeling exhausted, hungover, and as stiff and sore as if I’d seriously overdone it at the gym the day before.
The extreme fatigue caused incredible craving for “quick energy” foods – coffee, sugar and simple carbohydrates. Sugar and caffeine highs didn’t make me feel good, but they were some relief from feeling bad. And let’s not forget good old comfort eating. I was dealing with chronic pain, anhedonia, and a persistent wish to die. Literally the only thing that kept me from suicide was knowing how it would devastate my family. Eating two packets of chocolate biscuits instead of dinner made me feel a little less bad, so I did it. Repeatedly.
Oh, and then I helped nurse my mother through the terminal cancer that cut short her decline through dementia, and – around three weeks after her funeral – was diagnosed with melanoma. It was completely removed by surgery, but required two months of bed-rest to allow the resultant skin graft to heal. I was disappointed that the cancer hadn’t spread, if you need further proof of how messed up my emotional state was.
By now I weighed 120kg (265lb), around 40kg (88lb) overweight. Aside from any physiological issues, the sheer physical bulk of the fat was causing daily problems. It was difficult to bend my arm enough to fasten my bra, my gut got in the way when I tied my shoes, I had to strategically position the rolls to be able to do up my seatbelt, it was difficult to cross my legs. Lifting that extra 40kg out of seats, off the floor, out of the car, up and down stairs, was contributing to my exhaustion. I was hating every aspect of my life but had no idea what to do. I couldn’t stop eating junk because I simply needed the temporary respite too much.
I asked my GP for a referral to a psychiatrist, and she recommended one who specialises in long-term and treatment-resistant depression. He prescribed dexamphetamine. It’s given me a lot of relief from the exhaustion and fogged thought, and some relief from the anhedonia and suicidal thoughts. It’s also relieved me of the terrible cravings for junk food. I still enjoy a slice of cake, but I no longer feel compelled to cram the entire cake into my mouth as fast as possible. I can have chocolate in the house without constantly thinking about eating it. Smaller meals are satisfying me.
And I’m losing weight without really trying. So far I’m down over 6kg (13lb) since November. Remove the pathological reason for disordered eating, the disordered eating stops, and the excess weight gain also stops. Who would have thought.
TL:DR. I’m fat because I ate waaaaaaaay too much junk food as a symptom of a life-threatening illness. Anyone who wants to concern-troll fat people, or sniffily pontificate that all we have to do is eat less, can go fuck themselves. We’re having a hard enough time without your bullshit.
Show me a credible study that actually shows this to be a) possible for long term and b) more beneficial thsn harmful.
Show me the science that shows that weight and weight alone are a “strain” on the body. Also, just because you don’t intend it to be harmful doesn’t mean it isn’t. Anti-fat and/or pro-weightloss rhetoric are harmful and fatphobic. Full stop.
Ah, so you’re an equal opportunity body police officer. Good to know.
@otrame:
I’m probably poking my nose in where it doesn’t belong due to a bad case of hating to see fights and hurt feelings between folks who I genuinely believe are all decent people.
I think what we’ve got here is a bad case of “Wrong Time / Wrong Place” combined with a lot of pain on both sides. I’m sorry you and @dashapants feel like you’re being lumped in with indefensible jerks.
You’re hurt because you genuinely want to help, because you’ve had life experience that tells you that weight loss isn’t impossible, and for you losing weight made you feel healthier. Or maybe even your doctor thought you were healthier. You don’t want people to feel like it’s impossible, because if something’s impossible than why bother trying? And you don’t want people to not try, because good people generally don’t want other good people to suffer needlessly.
Folks here are hurt because (although well-intentioned) your words are similar to advice they’ve heard before, or heard slightly differently, from people who were did not mean well. They’re hurt because they’ve developed or known folks who developed eating disorders from hearing advice similar to yours (or more extreme than yours), and it didn’t work for them / their friends. They’re hurt because you might sound like their mother who accidentally gave them huge body positivity and disordered eating issues without really meaning to, out of love.
Hint: That last one is me. I love my mother dearly, but as an adult who is now legit chubby after going through some yo-yo dieting as a result of lots of motherly worrying about my not-actually all that chubby in hindsight childhood’s excess fluff… I really wish weight had been a thing she had never talked to me about. Most of what she said to me as a kid was very much like your comments, along the lines of “just a little more activity”. Most of what she told herself (because she was also a little chubby) was a lot like what you were saying along the lines of “I don’t really need to eat this” or “I’m watching portion sizes and trying to loose 1 to 2 lbs/month because I need to be healthier”.
I’m not saying your experience isn’t valid. Because you’ve done something cool and something that should be celebrated as good. If you feel healthier, that is great. If you’ve sustained a lower weight, and maybe even reset your fixed point a little lower, that’s excellent!
But that doesn’t make what worked for you work for everyone, or make it so that what worked for you seems possible for everyone. Humans are complicated.
Additionally when it’s shared in a venue where folks have already dealt with (or expect to deal with) a lot of extreme jerks, someone issuing even well meant advice is going to be reacted to like a concern-troll. Like, if we’re in a post about fat-shaming, people are already expecting to see fat-shaming comments, and are thus mentally poised to spring on fat-shaming comments as super-trollish. Context.
So, yeah, that’s my take. It could be a really poor take. It’s 8 at night and I’ve been working on homework, so it’s most likely a bad take.
I’d suggest that maybe we leave weight-loss tips to health blogs? Or side discussions between parties who are all interested and don’t have bad histories with such discussions.
I hope you have a good birthday, despite today.
I hope other folks in this thread who’ve been hurt have a better tomorrow than they had today as well.
*Sneaks into thread*
*Edges out of thread hoping no one noticed him sneaking in*
(I did once melt down to anorexic levels by working a physical demanding job 50 hours a week and not eating enough, and have since put on a lot eating too much and not exercizing, but I try not to generalize. I’ve seen all sorts of diet reports with people for whom it worked perfectly, and others for whom it didn’t work at all, and have come to the conclusion that bodies are far too diverse for any advice to work on a broad scale. And now I shall listen to myself and edge out of the thread.)
@weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
I think you might like heavyweightheart on tumbler.
Eh. I’m probably going to be one of the people for whom losing weight is actually possible.
I’ve also been fat ever since I hit puberty. I come from a home where veggies and healthy foods are the main food source. I was an active kid, I ran, I climbed, I played sports.
Even as I got older, I still walked my dog at least an hour a day. I don’t like pie, to grab that analogy from earlier (and dude, we’re pissed at you because you told us to move more and eat less pie, thus repeating that fucking stereotype of us being lazy slobs instead of humans. That’s the issue and your doubling down doesn’t make it better!).
Part of it was comfort eating due to heavy bullying, but after I got better and that stopped – somehow, I still didn’t lose weight. I worked out heavily three times a week (not as a weight loss thing, but because lifting heavy things is fun and it helped improve both my migraines and my mental state) and you know what? I didn’t lose anything. I went on a calorie restriction to see if my diet was an issue and you know what? I didn’t starve or feel hungry all the time, but I also didn’t lose shit.
Now why do I say I’ll probably be one of the people who actually lose weight and can maintain the new one? Because I was diagnosed with PCOS. I went on medication to deal with the insulin resistance. I changed nothing. In fact, I had stopped working out due to a broken limb and time constraints a few months prior.
Less exercise, the same – if not perhaps worse – eating habits due to lack of time for cooking and you know what? I started losing weight, just like that.
Because there’s an underlying health condition and once that became managed, I started losing weight.
The only thing exercise did for me was make me stronger and make me be able to run longer without losing my breath. It didn’t do shit for my weight. It did make me healthier – but not because I lost weight.
I can actually have days, hell, even a week where I’m eating sweets like nobodys business (oh, finals…. You are terrible) and it barely shows on the scale.
I’m not sure if my weight will go down further – only time will tell. It could, if I starved myself. But I won’t, because that’s fucking unhealthy and hey, I’m getting regularly checked for general health and I come out clear every single time. The people who do lose weight and keep it off – I’m pretty sure they’re able to do so comparatively easily because they’re not at their set weight, but instead above it because of factors outside of their control. Once those factors get fixed, their body goes towards the weight it is programme to be. Whatever that might be.
So if you would kindly shut the fuck up about “eat less pie” and go away, thanks. Do you really, honestly think we haven’t looked into how weight loss works? Do you really think that if we could have gotten away from the bullying, the pain, that easily, we would have? It took becoming an adult and understanding why to become comfortable with my body and if I could have just chopped the weight off, I would have. It was that bad. Do you really think if the solution was “walk more eat less” we wouldn’t have done that?
@wwth
Unrelated but I found something you might like.
https://twitter.com/TheOnion/status/1114202717990326272
@Otrame You do NOT get to play victim here: this was a thread about an ad showing a fairly positive representation of a fat woman and you decided you could not let that pass. You decided fat people couldn’t be allowed to feel mildly ok for a short minute.
So you strode in to lecture us about how UNHEALTHY we are and how we have to PUT DOWN THE PIE and get off our lazy asses and JUST DO SOME EXERCISE. Never mind all of that is bullshit, as you haven’t got any real-life knowledge of most fat people’s food intake or activity levels, it was a derail that had exactly nothing to do with the op.
No one was asking for your (scientifically debunked) advice. No one. That, plus the fact that you have no information – get that through your head: NO INFORMATION – about how we actually live, is what makes your position condescending.
So, why did you feel the need to do it? Seriously, ask yourself why it bothers you so much to see a fat person not feeling horrible about themselves for a few minutes that you feel the need to jump in and lecture them despite knowing nothing about them.
Because let’s be clear: this is about your problem with us. Sort it out and stop making it our problem.
And the same to the rest of you on the “just diet, pig” side: look at the op’s actual topic & ask yourselves why you feel the need to derail & make sure all the lardos know we’re bad & wrong.
And btw, trying to disguise your bigotry by dressing it up as “well of course no one should tell anyone else what to do, but really if you just stopped gorging like a hog, you’d be a better person” fools no one.
@ Knitting Cat Lady
This is hyperbole, but really not that much. I had a surgery on my right arm, and after a couple of months I could still not make a pants-pulling-up motion without excruciating pain preventing me from completing it. I went to the doctor (who that day became my ex-GP) to ask what I should do. She literally said, “It’s probably because you are fat.” (Not even any medical terms like obese or overweight here, just fat.) I asked how the fork that could be the problem, so she said, “You’re probably sleeping with that side down and your weight is crushing the surgical site and compressing some nerves. Lose weight and you’ll be fine.” So I said, “I had a forking surgery on it, of course I’m sleeping with that side up because holy shirt, you think I would sleep through the pain? That is not the cause!”
It devolved from there, and my attempt to get PT to regain my range of motion was not successful. It was only my fatty fatness that caused it.
@ Valkyrine
I once was commented at by a group of passing assholes while actively on a treadmill at the gym: “I hope she doesn’t break it!” There is zero real concern for health, only a desire to pump up a deficient ego by trying to bring others down.
Congrats for discovering your set point and stopping destroying your health.
But you continued:
YOU (anecdote… someone with a scientific background should know that’s not conclusive data) could lose weight in what you perceived as a healthy way with that incredibly mild and easy way that you’re not even doing for terribly long (3 years; you could even still gain back all of it by 5-10). And because you still think fat is bad you feel the need to proselytize. In my experience most “I lost weight” people seem to have this urge… for some goddamn reason (*cough*fatphobia*cough*). I hate to break it to you but:
YOU’RE NOT THE UNIVERSAL HUMAN BEING!
For me that mild exercise you recommended is daily life (walk to the closest grocery store etc.) also I juggle as a hobby (hello more exercise!), and I almost never eat pie or sugary snacks. Heck, my junk food consumption is approx. a candy bar a month and two bags of chips half a year. I think I ate at a fast food place 3 times my whole life. I’ve no clue what others eat but this seems somewhat low to me.
Guess what! STILL FAT!
So no. Your blanket assertion is totally condescending and untrue (and rooted in societal fatphobia that you’re perpetuating).
*Points up*
You know. I finally realized what’s the problem. Your world view is contradictory. You simultaneously assert that:
AND (from before)
But if they CAN lose weight safely (etc.) then they’re by implication AT FAULT (they “chose” to be fat), if they’re NOT AT FAULT then at least some (according to scientific evidence the overwhelming majority) of them CAN’T lose weight safely (etc.).
You currently solve this paradox by trying to deliver people the news of easy and healthy weight loss which they obviously didn’t hear before (we did, all our lives trust me). What you actually should do is: CHOSE ONE.
*pops up, clears throat*
Just want to praise the woman modelling the swimsuit, the lovely and exuberant Anna of Glitter and Lazers, who is one of the funniest and most honest Youtubers I’ve ever struck.
You have to be into Youtube fashion hauls to enjoy her videos (and yes, I recognize this is a specific taste) but she’s a peach. Her anti MLM LuLaRoe video is a classic:
@jrochest Thanks for that information.
I’ll look up the video. I know my state attorney general is going after LuLaRoe for running a pyramid scheme. And Anna looks like she’d be a great person to know.
Otrame – welcome to my hell. Seriously I had exactly the same conversation on here once. Everyone seemed to like me before, but then I said that I lost weight once by eating less. Now we can be pariahs together!
But seriously do not reply anymore, you will just dig a deeper hole and need a longer ladder.
The rest of you – when you bandy about statements like “intentional weight loss is impossible” you are going to get pushback. Improbable would have been truer.
I’ll see myself out.
I obviously screwed up the link, or maybe I don’t post enough for it to go through! It’s titled “Lularoe is a waste of money”
Lularoe is a waste of money
And lets see if the link works this time. I didn’t put in the closing element last time.
It worked, and that was great! A year or so ago a lot of the women in my office were all into LuLaRoe – I was invited to a party once but got sick and couldn’t go. I’m glad now that I didn’t.
Hi, what do you think about this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEU-MAZRhJs ? I noticed they appreciated the Dollar Shave club commercial, full of men shaving their body, drag queens etc. because apparently the commercial is not “hating on men” or “full of soyboys and forced diversity”, some pointed out it was ironic that the same people hating on Gillette like this.
🙂