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Gillette ad features an unapologetic fat woman in a swimsuit; heads explode

Gillette model “celebrates obesity” by existing while fat

By David Futrelle

A couple of months ago, Gillette infuriated Men’s Rights Activists and other terrible people with an ad challenging toxic masculinity and suggesting that maybe it wasn’t such a good thing for men and boys to go around bullying and harassing people.

Now Gillette has a new ad out that seems designed to enrage, well, pretty much the same exact mob that came after them then. The ad, promoting Gillette Venus razors for women, features Internet-famous model Anna O’Brian — a.k.a Glitter and Lasers — posing triumphantly on a beach in a two-piece swimsuit, arms raised to the sky.

This isn’t the first time a Gillette ad has featured a woman in a swimsuit. But this particular woman happens to be fat, and so a vast horde of angry men (mostly) have gone online to attack Gillette for “glorifying obesity” and surrendering to the cuck soyboy hairy feminist woke SJW overlords. These health-conscious gentlemen and ladies have also mocked the model herself, calling her a predictable assortment of names, suggesting that she smells, and predicting that she’ll die soon.

On Twitter, quite a few decided to play the role of a “concerned” doctor:

CryptoNoobGirl 🍸 🐸
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Replying to @GilletteVenus
99% sure the woman in the photo is on an anti-depressant and/or statins. I have several loved ones that are obese. I'm all for making ppl feel comfortable in their skin, but let's not glamorize obesity, please. It is NOT healthy.  Supportive is fine. Encouragement is cruel.
Alvaro Gustavo
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@TheKingKratos
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Replying to @LittleMissLizz @GilletteVenus
No doctor needed to see that she obviously lives an unhealthy lifestyle,  it's sad to know the fact that she just gave up on herself and avoids hard work to become a better version of herself. Even sadder to see people like you supporting her weak habits.
Vinay Shaw
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Replying to @TheKingKratos @LittleMissLizz @GilletteVenus
This 👆. Fat acceptance is cool but this Gillette ad just glorifies obesity and ill health.
@petrel49
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Replying to @avonandsomer
Gillette making headlines again unfortunately for this woman she is making her own her vital organs under threat from visceral fat too many repercussions to list here her heart will stop unable to cope end of
Jeremy Fichaud
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Replying to @ItsGoneAwry
The picture isn't but their follow up tweet definitely is. Nobody w/ eyes & who's being honest thinks that person is physically beautiful. She's gravely unhealthy. Gillette is actively perpetuating the lie that being that overweight is fine & I find that profoundly irresponsible.

Never mind that fat does not automatically mean unhealthy. Never mind that thin people can be unhealthy. Never mind that diets can be so unhealthy as to be dangerous. And never mind that fat shaming is not only not an effective way to inspire people to lose weight — and often causes its targets to gain weight — it’s also a threat to their health, both mental and physical.

Of course, quite a few of the commenters didn’t even bother to pretend that their complaints had anything to do with health. Most were not terribly original with their insults.

ADAM  🤙
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@AdamGlover1872
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More ADAM  🤙 Retweeted Gillette Venus
Imagine finding a whale washed up on the beach and taking photos instead of trying to help it. Shameful from Gillette
Autism Caliphate
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@autismcaliphate
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Wow really insensitive of Gillette to show this poor beached whale in their advertisement. We have lost this endangered species too many times to this kind of neglect.

Other commenters pulled out all their favorite right-wing buzzwords for the occasion:

Andrew Breitbart’s Ghost  🇺🇸
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@SteveTheBear3
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Replying to @shy_ferg @GilletteVenus
This is unhealthy. Period. But nice virtue signaling there @Gillette. How many Soy boys and Feminist with armpit hair do you employ nowadays??? Asking for my Liberal friend.
EpsilonLyrae
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Replying to @GilletteVenus
Wow. This is pathetic. Gillette gone full SJW. Wonder how the looks in your marketing department think they can survive with soy boys and whales as their core demographics
Seems that after trading male customers for hairless soyboys and  unshaving feminists, #Gillette has decided to focus on female customers who will die young.

Get woke, go broke

Some thought that this new ad, like Gillette’s “toxic masculity” ad in January, was really just a sneaky way to attack … men.

Governor-Megachris-Percent
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@GovMegachrisPct
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More Governor-Megachris-Percent Retweeted Andy Warski
It's at this point I feel like Gillette is just making these stupid ads to screw with men.  Critique the video of "toxic" masculinity = "misogyny," critique obese women bring promoted as "healthy" = "also misogyny."  Apparently only women are allowed to have opinions.
Federico Bezzi
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Replying to @GilletteVenus
Gender equality according to Gillette:

Men: change, you are a bad person

Women: you're obese? You're just perfect

Over on the always despicable Breitbart, which noted that in addition to Anna, Gillette has also used trans activist Jazz Jennings in recent ads, the commenters were a bit blunter.

StopCallingMe Shirley • 4 hours ago
How do you shave body parts you can't see?

147  
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Wouldn't it be nice  StopCallingMe Shirley • 3 hours ago
....or reach.

92  
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EricNV  Wouldn't it be nice • 3 hours ago
...by smell, of course.
Bob Wesley • 3 hours ago
Vomit on Gillette.
A pitiful company run by fagg0ts and other debris.
phillyguy • 3 hours ago
This is how communist poison is destroying America
jabba dabba • 2 hours ago
Goin from massive market to tiny niche market in a year. Grotesque pandering to the sloth and lustful degenerate scum of the earth. Hope they take the fat trans retards for all they’re worth just before the stock tanks and the company goes under.
Chip • an hour ago
No, there is NOT an issue with “toxic masculinity.” Masculinity is not toxic.

On the other hand, there IS an issue with liberal mental illness...which includes glorifying morbid obesity and the trans agenda. (Jazz’s parents should be thrown in prison for child abuse, and HE should be put in therapy in a mental hospital.)

I will NEVER buy a Gillette product again.

Well, I guess Gillette has started another “conversation,” as they like to say whenever they do something they know will provoke an angry mob. So sad that all it takes is a picture of a fat woman unapologetically wearing a bikini to unleash a wave of hate.

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Hippodameia
Hippodameia
1 year ago

So the MRAs complain about a woman being fat and a bunch of self-righteously pious fatshamers show up in the comments to agree. Nice.

Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy

I was talking with students about obesity stats just last week (we were focused on sociology and health). Obesity here in Aust is usually measured by BMI, which I find seriously problematic.
For example, my BMI puts me at overweight, bordering on obese. I don’t have any illusions about my size, but I’m literally not very big. So if the official figures say X percentage of Australians are obese, that’s a very, very wide net they’re casting.
Do other countries use BMI as the main criteria, do you folk know?

contrapangloss
contrapangloss
1 year ago

So, shot David an email to figure out if I got caught in the mod filter or if other wordpress type shenanigans happened.

Gist of disappearing comment was mostly sharing an interesting (to me) paper about how the actual metabolic “calories burned” really seems to be consistent across cultures, so the statement that we’re all overweight due to not having to go hunt/gather/work-hard isn’t necessarily true.

But… looking more at the thread, I think @Kupo’s most recent comment kinda covered most of the actual bases, from a much more appropriate place.

So, yeah. I guess I’m just going to second Kupo’s comment instead.

Anyone who hasn’t commented yet who desperately wants to share stories of how they lost weight or their neighbor’s friends second-cousin lost weight and kept it off in three simple steps… maybe don’t share.

Because I think in this thread (and most online forums and in most in person conversations) it’s really not going to “save” anyone. You probably aren’t going to succeed at getting anyone to buy into the same method of losing weight that you’ve (or the person you know) managed.

It’s most likely just going to hurt folks or just be irritating as heck.

So, please, give it a rest?

Hypatia's Daughter
Hypatia's Daughter
1 year ago

In the last year, I have seen many, many major corporations using a variety of LGBT, non-traditional models & mixed race families in their advertising.
Yeah, I know some are evil mega corps that are only cashing in on a social trend……but it normalizes progressive cultural attitudes.

And everytime I see one of these ads, I see corporate America giving the finger to Trump.

I have never seen a time when so many major corporations are at odds with the policies of the Republican party.

GrumpyOld SocialJusticeMangina
GrumpyOld SocialJusticeMangina
1 year ago

One of Gillette’s other marketing operations was paying to get its name put on the stadium where the 6-time Superbowl champion New England Soyboys football team plays.

dashapants
dashapants
1 year ago

@contrapangloss

It’s also pretty irritating when someone you weren’t telling what to do with themselves contradicts your experience by citing theirs, as if it’s somehow more valid, and then lumps you in with indefensible haters.

On the other hand, I may be mildly irritated, but kupo and a few others are genuinely distressed, so you are right and for my part I will shut up, because stressing people out is unnecessary and harmful.

otrame
otrame
1 year ago

Thanks to all of you ASSuming that I am fat phobic or that I want to hurt anyone, or that I have drunk the cultural koolaid of desperate skinniness, or even that I am fucking wrong.

ASSuming that me telling you those things in my original post was fat shaming or that I was being condescending or was telling people to “put down the cake and hit the gym” is deliberately ignoring what I said. As you may have guessed, I resent the fuck out of the attacks. I said absolutely nothing that justifies your hostility.

Tell me, why are some of you so sure I meant the ugly things you accused me of? I’m not unknown here. Have you ever heard me fat shame? Saying that being obese is a strain on the body isn’t fucking fat shaming. It’s telling you the goddamned truth. I wasn’t being condescending. I was trying to tell people that what people commonly think of as “dieting” is harmful and you shouldn’t do it. What I recommended is so mild that it has taken me three fucking years to lose 25 pounds. I am not dieting. I feel no superiority to those who have tried dieting and had the weight come back. I can hardly do that, because it happened to me about 6 times before I finally realized that that shit doesn’t work. And I know being obese doesn’t necessarily mean that you are unhealthy. I worked as a field archaeologist for 20 years, weighing between 240 and 260.

I will be 69 tomorrow (thanks for the great birthday surprise, btw) and I have experienced a lot of ups and downs. I finally quit gaining weight when I quit dieting. By that time I weighed 260 pounds. I’m 5’4″. I was very obese. I had some health issues that dropped me down to 250. But after that I didn’t gain anything significant for more than 10 years.

Then I decided that I had to make sure I kept my diabetes under control, because I lost two sisters to it, and I was not going to do that to my kids and grandkids. By doing what I recommended, including occasionally eating nice sugary deserts, my blood sugars are near normal about 60% of the time (and only a little higher than that almost all the rest of the time) and my most recent A1c was 5.9, which is still a little high, but not nearly as bad as it was. The weight loss is a nice side effect of trying to keep my vision, and my heart and kidneys functioning and not losing sensation or becoming hyper-sensitive in my toes or fingers. The side affect, after three years is that I weigh 225.

Don’t tell me people can’t lose weight. They can. And they can do it safely. What they can’t do is starve themselves and expect a good outcome. What they can’t do is lose “50 pounds by summer” as I saw on an ad recently. Not safely. Not permanently.

Tell me how I was being condescending. I’ve had time to reread what I said, and I realize that text doesn’t convey tone of voice well, but please tell me, those of you who attacked me, what about that post was condescending. I’ve been dealing with my obesity most of my adult life and that is a lot longer than some of you have been alive. I feel no contempt for fat people. I know that a person is not at some sort of “fault” for being fat. Fat people are fat for many reasons and none of them are the result of lack of discipline or poor self control. As someone who has dieted repeatedly, I know damned well I have discipline and self control. I lost several hundred pounds combined over about 20 years of dieting. All that discipline and self control got me was fatter. I don’t blame myself for that. I am not a self-hating fat person.

But you pretending that it is impossible to lose weight safely and that being obese is not harmful is fucking delusional. If you feel comfortable at your weight, whatever it is, good. I absolutely support you staying that way (as if it was any of my business). If you feel that the cost of doing what I recommended or something similar is too high compared to the worth of the possible improvement in your health, that is up to you, as an adult, to chose. I will continue what I am doing, not because I care about the weight, per se, but because I don’t want to end up like my younger sisters who are both dead now. And I will continue to lose weight, slowly, even though it won’t matter much to me. I check the scale about once every couple of months.

But don’t accuse me of fat shaming because I said something that is true. I know many of you have been terribly hurt by the way our culture treats fat people. That doesn’t give you the right to take it out on me. For those of you who didn’t attack me, or who simply disagreed with me, thank you. The rest of you can fuck right off.

P.S. The last time I got gang stomped was because I suggested that the woman playing Wonder Woman was too damned skinny to be an Amazon. I wasn’t skinny shaming then either, just suggesting that an Amazon is supposed to have a few muscles, and perhaps casting someone with some definition would be better, but my god, you would have thought I had personally attacked the women and called her mean things. I think it might have even been on this blog. I think that is pretty fucking ironic.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

If people are irritated by the push back against diet industry talking points, or feel like they need to quit here for Wonkette? I don’t give a shit.

This is one of the few places I’ve ever felt safe discussing my history of eating disorders. In the “real world” the only people I’ve told about it are two best friends. One of whom also has a history of EDs. I feel like I can talk about it here partly because I’m a private person and I’m not posting with my real name, but partly because there is push back against the thin = healthy and thin = moral narrative running through our whole entire culture.

You have almost every space in the whole entire world to discuss weight loss tips and the badness of fat. Why is it so goddamn important to have this space to do it too? Can there not one be one place where weight loss isn’t encouraged? I’m not asking anyone to not try to lose weight. I’m not asking anyone to stop thinking losing weight is a good thing. I’m just asking it not be pushed here when it’s so clearly unwelcomed by so many of us. Is that really asking so much?

And Otrame,
Coming onto a post about misogynistic fat shaming to say “well, sometimes it’s bad to be fat” is no different than coming on to a post about about Islamaphobia to say “some Muslims are terrorists” or coming onto to a post about rape apologia to say “some women do lie about rape.” Even if it’s technically true, it’s functionally supportive of the bigotry being discussed and just not the time or place to bring it up.

Even though I personally find any diet or weight loss talk somewhat distressing, I don’t have a problem with someone talking about their weight loss efforts in an open thread, or a post that kind of morphs into an open thread organically. But it’s a whole different thing when it’s posted in response to misogynists directing abuse at women because of their weight. Just, pay attention to context, you know?

Tosca, Chaos made Flesh, Servant of the Purring Jew
Tosca, Chaos made Flesh, Servant of the Purring Jew
1 year ago

CW: discussion of suicidal ideation.

PSA: experts agree that exercise has little to no effect on weight loss.
That’s not to say exercise is useless, of course – it has a host of health benefits – but weight loss isn’t one of them. Calorie restriction is the only thing that leads to weight loss.

So my health history is a perfect storm for being fat, and I surprised myself by how teary I got typing all this out.

My genetics are “tall and large framed, with heavy bones, large but ill-defined muscle mass, and a tendency to get fat in later life.” I grew up on a farm, in a time and place where the entire district’s eating plan was structured around feeding men doing hard physical labour 12-14 hours a day. I was an adult before I found there were ways to cook veggies that didn’t involve boiling them, roasting them in a small lake of animal fat, or covering them in the district’s weird version of salad dressing (a mixture of sweetened condensed milk, vinegar, and flavoured with powdered mustard. I know, WTF??)

When I told a gynecologist my menstrual cycle was 35-40 days rather than 28, he said, “So, you fall pregnant easily, experience fairly light bleeding during your period, have a very sweet tooth and gain weight easily”. 100% correct, sir. So apparently that’s A Thing.

Now 50. I have hypothyroidism, psoriatic arthritis, hypertension, chronic nerve pain, sleep apnea and severe chronic depression. So I have a pathologically slow metabolism, limitations in the kind of exercise I can do, chronic pain and stiffness, persistent extreme fatigue, severe menopause symptoms, anhedonia and require high doses of drugs known to cause weight gain. Until very recently I woke up every day feeling exhausted, hungover, and as stiff and sore as if I’d seriously overdone it at the gym the day before.

The extreme fatigue caused incredible craving for “quick energy” foods – coffee, sugar and simple carbohydrates. Sugar and caffeine highs didn’t make me feel good, but they were some relief from feeling bad. And let’s not forget good old comfort eating. I was dealing with chronic pain, anhedonia, and a persistent wish to die. Literally the only thing that kept me from suicide was knowing how it would devastate my family. Eating two packets of chocolate biscuits instead of dinner made me feel a little less bad, so I did it. Repeatedly.

Oh, and then I helped nurse my mother through the terminal cancer that cut short her decline through dementia, and – around three weeks after her funeral – was diagnosed with melanoma. It was completely removed by surgery, but required two months of bed-rest to allow the resultant skin graft to heal. I was disappointed that the cancer hadn’t spread, if you need further proof of how messed up my emotional state was.

By now I weighed 120kg (265lb), around 40kg (88lb) overweight. Aside from any physiological issues, the sheer physical bulk of the fat was causing daily problems. It was difficult to bend my arm enough to fasten my bra, my gut got in the way when I tied my shoes, I had to strategically position the rolls to be able to do up my seatbelt, it was difficult to cross my legs. Lifting that extra 40kg out of seats, off the floor, out of the car, up and down stairs, was contributing to my exhaustion. I was hating every aspect of my life but had no idea what to do. I couldn’t stop eating junk because I simply needed the temporary respite too much.

I asked my GP for a referral to a psychiatrist, and she recommended one who specialises in long-term and treatment-resistant depression. He prescribed dexamphetamine. It’s given me a lot of relief from the exhaustion and fogged thought, and some relief from the anhedonia and suicidal thoughts. It’s also relieved me of the terrible cravings for junk food. I still enjoy a slice of cake, but I no longer feel compelled to cram the entire cake into my mouth as fast as possible. I can have chocolate in the house without constantly thinking about eating it. Smaller meals are satisfying me.

And I’m losing weight without really trying. So far I’m down over 6kg (13lb) since November. Remove the pathological reason for disordered eating, the disordered eating stops, and the excess weight gain also stops. Who would have thought.

TL:DR. I’m fat because I ate waaaaaaaay too much junk food as a symptom of a life-threatening illness. Anyone who wants to concern-troll fat people, or sniffily pontificate that all we have to do is eat less, can go fuck themselves. We’re having a hard enough time without your bullshit.

kupo
kupo
1 year ago

But you pretending that it is impossible to lose weight safely and that being obese is not harmful is fucking delusional.

Show me a credible study that actually shows this to be a) possible for long term and b) more beneficial thsn harmful.

But don’t accuse me of fat shaming because I said something that is true

Show me the science that shows that weight and weight alone are a “strain” on the body. Also, just because you don’t intend it to be harmful doesn’t mean it isn’t. Anti-fat and/or pro-weightloss rhetoric are harmful and fatphobic. Full stop.

The last time I got gang stomped was because I suggested that the woman playing Wonder Woman was too damned skinny to be an Amazon

Ah, so you’re an equal opportunity body police officer. Good to know.

contrapangloss
contrapangloss
1 year ago

@otrame:

I’m probably poking my nose in where it doesn’t belong due to a bad case of hating to see fights and hurt feelings between folks who I genuinely believe are all decent people.

I think what we’ve got here is a bad case of “Wrong Time / Wrong Place” combined with a lot of pain on both sides. I’m sorry you and @dashapants feel like you’re being lumped in with indefensible jerks.

You’re hurt because you genuinely want to help, because you’ve had life experience that tells you that weight loss isn’t impossible, and for you losing weight made you feel healthier. Or maybe even your doctor thought you were healthier. You don’t want people to feel like it’s impossible, because if something’s impossible than why bother trying? And you don’t want people to not try, because good people generally don’t want other good people to suffer needlessly.

Folks here are hurt because (although well-intentioned) your words are similar to advice they’ve heard before, or heard slightly differently, from people who were did not mean well. They’re hurt because they’ve developed or known folks who developed eating disorders from hearing advice similar to yours (or more extreme than yours), and it didn’t work for them / their friends. They’re hurt because you might sound like their mother who accidentally gave them huge body positivity and disordered eating issues without really meaning to, out of love.

Hint: That last one is me. I love my mother dearly, but as an adult who is now legit chubby after going through some yo-yo dieting as a result of lots of motherly worrying about my not-actually all that chubby in hindsight childhood’s excess fluff… I really wish weight had been a thing she had never talked to me about. Most of what she said to me as a kid was very much like your comments, along the lines of “just a little more activity”. Most of what she told herself (because she was also a little chubby) was a lot like what you were saying along the lines of “I don’t really need to eat this” or “I’m watching portion sizes and trying to loose 1 to 2 lbs/month because I need to be healthier”.

I’m not saying your experience isn’t valid. Because you’ve done something cool and something that should be celebrated as good. If you feel healthier, that is great. If you’ve sustained a lower weight, and maybe even reset your fixed point a little lower, that’s excellent!

But that doesn’t make what worked for you work for everyone, or make it so that what worked for you seems possible for everyone. Humans are complicated.

Additionally when it’s shared in a venue where folks have already dealt with (or expect to deal with) a lot of extreme jerks, someone issuing even well meant advice is going to be reacted to like a concern-troll. Like, if we’re in a post about fat-shaming, people are already expecting to see fat-shaming comments, and are thus mentally poised to spring on fat-shaming comments as super-trollish. Context.

So, yeah, that’s my take. It could be a really poor take. It’s 8 at night and I’ve been working on homework, so it’s most likely a bad take.

I’d suggest that maybe we leave weight-loss tips to health blogs? Or side discussions between parties who are all interested and don’t have bad histories with such discussions.

I hope you have a good birthday, despite today.

I hope other folks in this thread who’ve been hurt have a better tomorrow than they had today as well.

Rabid Rabbit
Rabid Rabbit
1 year ago

*Sneaks into thread*

*Edges out of thread hoping no one noticed him sneaking in*

(I did once melt down to anorexic levels by working a physical demanding job 50 hours a week and not eating enough, and have since put on a lot eating too much and not exercizing, but I try not to generalize. I’ve seen all sorts of diet reports with people for whom it worked perfectly, and others for whom it didn’t work at all, and have come to the conclusion that bodies are far too diverse for any advice to work on a broad scale. And now I shall listen to myself and edge out of the thread.)

Knitting Cat Lady
Knitting Cat Lady
1 year ago

@weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

I think you might like heavyweightheart on tumbler.

zaunfink
zaunfink
1 year ago

Eh. I’m probably going to be one of the people for whom losing weight is actually possible.

I’ve also been fat ever since I hit puberty. I come from a home where veggies and healthy foods are the main food source. I was an active kid, I ran, I climbed, I played sports.
Even as I got older, I still walked my dog at least an hour a day. I don’t like pie, to grab that analogy from earlier (and dude, we’re pissed at you because you told us to move more and eat less pie, thus repeating that fucking stereotype of us being lazy slobs instead of humans. That’s the issue and your doubling down doesn’t make it better!).

Part of it was comfort eating due to heavy bullying, but after I got better and that stopped – somehow, I still didn’t lose weight. I worked out heavily three times a week (not as a weight loss thing, but because lifting heavy things is fun and it helped improve both my migraines and my mental state) and you know what? I didn’t lose anything. I went on a calorie restriction to see if my diet was an issue and you know what? I didn’t starve or feel hungry all the time, but I also didn’t lose shit.

Now why do I say I’ll probably be one of the people who actually lose weight and can maintain the new one? Because I was diagnosed with PCOS. I went on medication to deal with the insulin resistance. I changed nothing. In fact, I had stopped working out due to a broken limb and time constraints a few months prior.
Less exercise, the same – if not perhaps worse – eating habits due to lack of time for cooking and you know what? I started losing weight, just like that.

Because there’s an underlying health condition and once that became managed, I started losing weight.

The only thing exercise did for me was make me stronger and make me be able to run longer without losing my breath. It didn’t do shit for my weight. It did make me healthier – but not because I lost weight.

I can actually have days, hell, even a week where I’m eating sweets like nobodys business (oh, finals…. You are terrible) and it barely shows on the scale.
I’m not sure if my weight will go down further – only time will tell. It could, if I starved myself. But I won’t, because that’s fucking unhealthy and hey, I’m getting regularly checked for general health and I come out clear every single time. The people who do lose weight and keep it off – I’m pretty sure they’re able to do so comparatively easily because they’re not at their set weight, but instead above it because of factors outside of their control. Once those factors get fixed, their body goes towards the weight it is programme to be. Whatever that might be.

So if you would kindly shut the fuck up about “eat less pie” and go away, thanks. Do you really, honestly think we haven’t looked into how weight loss works? Do you really think that if we could have gotten away from the bullying, the pain, that easily, we would have? It took becoming an adult and understanding why to become comfortable with my body and if I could have just chopped the weight off, I would have. It was that bad. Do you really think if the solution was “walk more eat less” we wouldn’t have done that?

Ooglyboggles
Ooglyboggles
1 year ago

@wwth
Unrelated but I found something you might like.
https://twitter.com/TheOnion/status/1114202717990326272

Crys T
Crys T
1 year ago

@Otrame You do NOT get to play victim here: this was a thread about an ad showing a fairly positive representation of a fat woman and you decided you could not let that pass. You decided fat people couldn’t be allowed to feel mildly ok for a short minute.

So you strode in to lecture us about how UNHEALTHY we are and how we have to PUT DOWN THE PIE and get off our lazy asses and JUST DO SOME EXERCISE. Never mind all of that is bullshit, as you haven’t got any real-life knowledge of most fat people’s food intake or activity levels, it was a derail that had exactly nothing to do with the op.

No one was asking for your (scientifically debunked) advice. No one. That, plus the fact that you have no information – get that through your head: NO INFORMATION – about how we actually live, is what makes your position condescending.

So, why did you feel the need to do it? Seriously, ask yourself why it bothers you so much to see a fat person not feeling horrible about themselves for a few minutes that you feel the need to jump in and lecture them despite knowing nothing about them.

Because let’s be clear: this is about your problem with us. Sort it out and stop making it our problem.

And the same to the rest of you on the “just diet, pig” side: look at the op’s actual topic & ask yourselves why you feel the need to derail & make sure all the lardos know we’re bad & wrong.

And btw, trying to disguise your bigotry by dressing it up as “well of course no one should tell anyone else what to do, but really if you just stopped gorging like a hog, you’d be a better person” fools no one.

Lurker LXVII
Lurker LXVII
1 year ago

@ Knitting Cat Lady

Patient: Doctor, my arm fell off!
Doctor: Have you tried losing weight?

This is hyperbole, but really not that much. I had a surgery on my right arm, and after a couple of months I could still not make a pants-pulling-up motion without excruciating pain preventing me from completing it. I went to the doctor (who that day became my ex-GP) to ask what I should do. She literally said, “It’s probably because you are fat.” (Not even any medical terms like obese or overweight here, just fat.) I asked how the fork that could be the problem, so she said, “You’re probably sleeping with that side down and your weight is crushing the surgical site and compressing some nerves. Lose weight and you’ll be fine.” So I said, “I had a forking surgery on it, of course I’m sleeping with that side up because holy shirt, you think I would sleep through the pain? That is not the cause!”

It devolved from there, and my attempt to get PT to regain my range of motion was not successful. It was only my fatty fatness that caused it.

@ Valkyrine

Shouldn’t these people be praising her for “being active (by going to the beach)” instead of whining about it if they are so concerned for her health?

I once was commented at by a group of passing assholes while actively on a treadmill at the gym: “I hope she doesn’t break it!” There is zero real concern for health, only a desire to pump up a deficient ego by trying to bring others down.

Malitia
Malitia
1 year ago

otrame wrote on
April 6, 2019 at 10:29 pm:

I finally quit gaining weight when I quit dieting. By that time I weighed 260 pounds. I’m 5’4″. I was very obese. I had some health issues that dropped me down to 250. But after that I didn’t gain anything significant for more than 10 years.

Congrats for discovering your set point and stopping destroying your health.

But you continued:

Don’t tell me people can’t lose weight. They can. And they can do it safely.

YOU (anecdote… someone with a scientific background should know that’s not conclusive data) could lose weight in what you perceived as a healthy way with that incredibly mild and easy way that you’re not even doing for terribly long (3 years; you could even still gain back all of it by 5-10). And because you still think fat is bad you feel the need to proselytize. In my experience most “I lost weight” people seem to have this urge… for some goddamn reason (*cough*fatphobia*cough*). I hate to break it to you but:

YOU’RE NOT THE UNIVERSAL HUMAN BEING!

For me that mild exercise you recommended is daily life (walk to the closest grocery store etc.) also I juggle as a hobby (hello more exercise!), and I almost never eat pie or sugary snacks. Heck, my junk food consumption is approx. a candy bar a month and two bags of chips half a year. I think I ate at a fast food place 3 times my whole life. I’ve no clue what others eat but this seems somewhat low to me.

Guess what! STILL FAT!

So no. Your blanket assertion is totally condescending and untrue (and rooted in societal fatphobia that you’re perpetuating).

Tell me how I was being condescending.

*Points up*

You know. I finally realized what’s the problem. Your world view is contradictory. You simultaneously assert that:

I know that a person is not at some sort of “fault” for being fat.

AND (from before)

Don’t tell me people can’t lose weight. They can. And they can do it safely.

But if they CAN lose weight safely (etc.) then they’re by implication AT FAULT (they “chose” to be fat), if they’re NOT AT FAULT then at least some (according to scientific evidence the overwhelming majority) of them CAN’T lose weight safely (etc.).

You currently solve this paradox by trying to deliver people the news of easy and healthy weight loss which they obviously didn’t hear before (we did, all our lives trust me). What you actually should do is: CHOSE ONE.

jrochest
jrochest
1 year ago

*pops up, clears throat*

Just want to praise the woman modelling the swimsuit, the lovely and exuberant Anna of Glitter and Lazers, who is one of the funniest and most honest Youtubers I’ve ever struck.

You have to be into Youtube fashion hauls to enjoy her videos (and yes, I recognize this is a specific taste) but she’s a peach. Her anti MLM LuLaRoe video is a classic:

Crys T
Crys T
1 year ago

@jrochest Thanks for that information.

Hippodameia
Hippodameia
1 year ago

I’ll look up the video. I know my state attorney general is going after LuLaRoe for running a pyramid scheme. And Anna looks like she’d be a great person to know.

misophistry
misophistry
1 year ago

Otrame – welcome to my hell. Seriously I had exactly the same conversation on here once. Everyone seemed to like me before, but then I said that I lost weight once by eating less. Now we can be pariahs together!
But seriously do not reply anymore, you will just dig a deeper hole and need a longer ladder.

The rest of you – when you bandy about statements like “intentional weight loss is impossible” you are going to get pushback. Improbable would have been truer.

I’ll see myself out.

jrochest
jrochest
1 year ago

I obviously screwed up the link, or maybe I don’t post enough for it to go through! It’s titled “Lularoe is a waste of money”

Lularoe is a waste of money

And lets see if the link works this time. I didn’t put in the closing element last time.

Hippodameia
Hippodameia
1 year ago

It worked, and that was great! A year or so ago a lot of the women in my office were all into LuLaRoe – I was invited to a party once but got sick and couldn’t go. I’m glad now that I didn’t.

Ingmar
Ingmar
1 year ago

Hi, what do you think about this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEU-MAZRhJs ? I noticed they appreciated the Dollar Shave club commercial, full of men shaving their body, drag queens etc. because apparently the commercial is not “hating on men” or “full of soyboys and forced diversity”, some pointed out it was ironic that the same people hating on Gillette like this.
🙂

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

I watched the Lularoe video and … wow. I’d actually never heard of the company before. Even if the clothing had been fantastic, the overly difficult process for buying it would’ve been an immediate turn off. I’m someone who won’t even buy anything in an Apple store because it pisses me off that you can’t just walk in, take something to a register and pay for it. I went in there one time several years to get something small. I think an ipod charger. No employee there paid the slightest bit of attention to me. I didn’t think I should have to work to get the attention of someone in order to complete a simple transaction. I walked out and literally have not bought a single Apple product since. I can’t even imagine going through all that trouble to buy Lularoe leggings either.

Is the company even still in business?

Seriously though. Am I the only who just does not get the big deal about Apple products? I’ve asked friends who use iphones about why they are loyal to it. Why should I pay considerably more money than an Android for it? No one ever has a real answer beyond just aesthetics.

Tulikat
Tulikat
1 year ago

Thank you to Malitia, Crys, Kupo, Knitting Cat Lady, and any others for your summaries of the current state of weight research! In case anyone wants some more citations, here is an excellent academic review paper that busts a lot of myths about the inherent dangers of obesity, and the supposed ease and accessibility of permanent weight loss. It’s not full of jargon and is extensively well cited for further reading:

Paul Campos et al, The epidemiology of overweight and obesity: public health crisis or moral panic?. International  Journal of Epidemiology, Volume 35, Issue 1, February 2006, Pages 55–60

The full article is available free online. I’m avoiding links because as a new poster I’m not sure about the etiquette there.

I know this is an incredibly emotionally fraught topic — I’m still doing the work of extracting myself from a dieting mentality, and I know how hard it can be to push yourself against “common knowledge” about obesity. Doing the research has helped me, and I hope it helps others too.

Hippodameia
Hippodameia
1 year ago

WWTH, LuLaRoe is still in business, but they’re struggling. The whole thing started to crack up last fall. I hope there’ll be jail time for some of the senior executives before the whole thing’s done, because they’re definitely running a pyramid scam.

Tulikat, thank you for the paper!

kupo
kupo
1 year ago

@Tulikat
Welcome! Thanks for the reference. In MLA format, even! I’ll take a look later. Linking isn’t a problem here, though if it’s to something potentially triggering, just add a content warning first.

@wwth
I got an iPhone at one point because at that time it had the most storage and I wanted a phone that doubled as a music player. But that’s no longer the case and I very much prefer not having my hardware and OS so tightly coupled. Also I watched that one iPhone slowly die from updates overloading the memory until it couldn’t run even simple apps anymore, so I prefer Android now.

For work I use a macbook and it has one advantage: it’s Unix-based, as are most servers. That’s it. It’s not even difficult to work around that when running a windows development environment, which I’ve also done.

Scanisaurus
Scanisaurus
1 year ago

I’ll just say that while obesity is indeed unhealthy, telling overweight people that they “just” need to diet and exercise isn’t helping anyone.

While not overweight myself, having struggled with depression and unemployment I can safely say that I hate people who tell me I just need to pull myself together and start studying and finishing my bachelor’s degree and do volunteer work and make phone calls to every potential workplace and just ask random people for a job. Like, that isn’t how it works when you are depressed. I’m currently doing some light work training for a few hours a day, and even that leaves me exhausted.

You can’t just randomly decide to be healthy and happy and then go on being just that, and being told that it’s all because you’re unmotivated will only convince you that the person saying that have no empathy or idea what they’re talking about.

And personally, despite having indulged in a fair share of comfort eating and a sedentary lifestyle, I’ve still wound up losing weight lately due to my depression, it all just shows human bodies aren’t rational machines following a universal set of laws, and despite still being at a healthy weight, my weight loss haven’t done anything to make me happier.

Crys T
Crys T
1 year ago

@misophistry Guess what? It’s not ever necessary for you to jump in a discussion that’s not specifically about weight loss with your take on weight loss.

And your long-suffering tone re how the horribly you’ve treated here is pure disingenuousness. You know good and damn well we’re not pissed off by the “I lost weight by eating less,” it’s the “so that means most [or many] other fat people can – and SHOULD – too” that inevitably gets tacked on. Like Otrame, you’re not a victim here, so climb down off that cross.

Also, if someone said weight loss is “impossible,” I must have missed it. I and several others have pointed out how small the minority is of people who manage to lose weight and keep it off for more than a few years, but that’s not anything like saying it’s “impossible.” So why do you feel the need to pretend that’s been a dominant message?

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Crys T,

Knitting Cat Lady did say it here https://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2019/04/05/gillette-ad-features-an-unapologetic-fat-woman-in-a-swimsuit-heads-explode/comment-page-1/#comment-2561507

However, that was only one comment. It was followed by many other comments with the more nuanced (and factually correct) take that in the long term, weight loss rates are below 5% and that weight loss success stories tend to reflect only short term losses.

I’m also going to need a link from Misophistry showing that we chased them out of here simply for saying they lost weight by eating less. Something tells me there’s a whole lotta context missing.

Crys T
Crys T
1 year ago

PS @Scanisaurus Prove that when factors such as socioeconomic level, medical negligence (doctors give fat people substandard care)*, stress levels from having to deal with bigotry every damn day, etc, that “obesity is unhealthy.”

Because I’ve read more than one researcher who specialises in the topic saying that once those factors are accounted for, differences between fat & normal weight people virtually disappear.

If you have access to information all those experts don’t, you ought to contact them post haste.

*And btw, I’ve never seen a single study that controls for this in data analysis. So the difference between fat & non-fat groups is likely even smaller.

ETA @WWTH Thanks. I knew it couldn’t have appeared more than once or twice.

Hippodameia
Hippodameia
1 year ago

The rest of you – when you bandy about statements like “intentional weight loss is impossible” you are going to get pushback.

Just as self-righteous fat shamers who come onto a thread to agree with MRAs that a woman being fat is bad are getting a lot of pushback. Funny how that works.

I’ll see myself out.

Don’t let the door hit you, etc. And please stick the flounce.

Scanisaurus
Scanisaurus
1 year ago

@Crys T

PS @Scanisaurus Prove that when factors such as socioeconomic level, medical negligence (doctors give fat people substandard care)*, stress levels from having to deal with bigotry every damn day, etc, that “obesity is unhealthy.”

I’m sorry that I don’t have any studies on this matter, but I still think that if somebody is obese to the point that their size and weight hinders their movement it’s unhealthy, just the same way any joint disease or other ailments that hinders normal physical activities are unhealthy, but that doesn’t mean I’ve intended to shame anyone for it or that I consider a plus size person who aren’t hindered by their size unhealthy and I apologize if it came across that way.

Crys T
Crys T
1 year ago

@Scanisaurus Fair enough.

kupo
kupo
1 year ago

I’m sorry that I don’t have any studies on this matter, but I still think that if somebody is obese to the point that their size and weight hinders their movement it’s unhealthy

A) Are you a doctor? If not, idgaf what you think.
B) I am under no obligation to perform health in the way you or anyone else deems acceptable. It’s my body and my choice what I do with it so long as no one else is affected.

Do you jump onto every discussion about rock climbing or pregnancy and warn people of the increased health risks? No? Maybe sit down for a moment and think about what’s different about this situation that mskes you feel like it’s okay to comment on the supposed health risks of fatness.

that doesn’t mean I’ve intended to shame anyone for it

The language you just used is shaming. Calling people’s bodies unhealthy for existing in a configuration not to your liking is shaming them.

Catalpa
Catalpa
1 year ago

@ Everyone who feels the need to come in here and offer all their advice/tips/opinions on how obesity is bad, weight loss is simply achievable, etc

Do you honestly believe that you are saying literally anything that fat people haven’t been told hundreds of times before?

What do you think you’re contributing to the conversation? Are you under the impression that there’s anyone here who is completely ignorant of our culture’s obsession with thinness?

Scanisaurus
Scanisaurus
1 year ago

@kupo

I am under no obligation to perform health in the way you or anyone else deems acceptable. It’s my body and my choice what I do with it so long as no one else is affected.

I never said that you owe it to anybody to be healthy, but being unable to move normally or being physically prevented from doing everyday activities is the standard definition of an ailment or disability. I’m not saying that being unhealthy or disabled is a moral failing or that people should feel pressured to conform to society’s bodily ideal.

And I’m not trying to single out obese people either, I commented on a subject which was already being discussed, and I did also talk about depression in my previous comment.

kupo
kupo
1 year ago

I never said that you owe it to anybody to be healthy

Context. Why bring it up, then? Why come into a thread about a woman being targeted by misogynists for abuse for the crime oc wearing a bathing suit while fat and inform everyone of your opinion about whether fat is healthy? What’s your goal, here? Multiple people have told anyone reading that this discourse is actively harmful to them and yet you continue. Why?

Valkyrine
Valkyrine
1 year ago

@kupo
What’s up with rock climbing? Not trying to start anything, was just curious if there’s connection with it and hindering movement?

Knitting Cat Lady
Knitting Cat Lady
1 year ago

Okay, losing weight permanently is NEXT to impossible. Happy now?

We don’t actually know the percentage of people who gain all the weight back, or more.

We do now that it’s >95% at 5-10 years.

Why? Because we don’t have enough studies that look at a longer time frame.

There are a handful of people, let’s call them unicorns, who manage to lose weight and stay at the lower weight.

But those people are extremely rare.

The vast majority of people needs to maintain an energy deficit to stay at lower fat body mass percentage. And that is unhealthy as fuck long term.

I’ll keep saying: ‘Losing weight long term is impossible.’

Why? Because for the vast majority of people IT IS.

Focusing on the few unicorns out there isn’t helpful for the majority.

Our energy is better spent reducing weight based stigma in medicine and society.

Crys T
Crys T
1 year ago

@Knitting Cat Lady Re the unicorns: people want to focus on them because they really want to maintain the belief that fat is a moral failing. No matter how much they profess to “just care about health,” they despise fat people.

Re the weight loss failure rate: what I’ve read from a couple of researchers is that the few who do manage to keep the weight off long-term are mostly those who had only a little weight to lose in the first place. Don’t quote me on this, but I think it was 10% or less than their total weight.

So, even though some unicorns do exist, we can’t compare them to the fat people the fatphobics are more “concerned” about.

Scanisaurus
Scanisaurus
1 year ago

@kupo
In my first comment I made one short mention of obesity being unhealthy before dedicating the entire rest of the comment to arguing why I think shaming won’t help anyone get healthier or feel better.

I just don’t see how saying that something is unhealthy is shaming them, because I don’t think people should feel ashamed of poor health and I didn’t consider my comment to be any more shaming than saying that depression, anorexia or arthritis is unhealthy would shame those having it, and I don’t see why a condition that hinders your movement wouldn’t count as an ailment or disability.

Please understand that I’m not telling anyone what to do with their bodies, I’m not trying to shame anyone, and if it came across that way I’m sorry.

Lurker LXVII
Lurker LXVII
1 year ago

@Scanisaurus

I cannot speak for kupo, but in the US there is a stigma against being unhealthy. Here is a link discussing the same phenomenon growing in the UK. Note that the article is referring to extremely obvious illness such as flu: imagine it multiplied 1000x for something widely considered a moral failing such as obesity.

I believe, but cannot at this hour of the morning cite the reference, that this view of unhealthiness is a cultural holdover from Protestantism (possibly specifically Calvinism). I can have a go at it later after coffee, if you are interested.

In any case, while I believe that you meant no offense in using the descriptor “unhealthy”, it is in fact, in some cultures, a shaming term. If people were only stronger/better/not evil and deserving of punishment, they would be healthy, like normal God-fearing people.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Too obese to move properly and obese according to the BMI are two very different things though. It should also be remembered that sometimes a condition that hinders movement causes the obesity, not the other way around. And comparing someone’s body type to a disease? Also not helpful.

Jarnsaxa
Jarnsaxa
1 year ago

Please, tell all of us fatties all about how losing weight works.

We’re dying to know. We definitely haven’t read hundreds of articles over decades about diets and exercise, or been subjected to thousands of ads for products about it. We definitely haven’t had it shoved in our faces every time we watch TV, pick up a magazine or read the newspaper. We certainly haven’t seen it on social media or other websites. Well-meaning friends and family definitely haven’t offered up their tips and tricks. Our doctors certainly have never told us to lose weight and most definitely have never implied that our colds, back pain, menstrual pain, hereditary high blood pressure or bad knees would miraculously vanish if we just lost weight.

We have certainly never actually tried eating less and exercising, cutting out meals, fasting, eating small meals, skipping entire food groups, skipping carbs, skipping fat, skipping sugar, cutting calories, weighing food or portion control.

Please tell us more. No one has ever thought of this before, ever.

You are the very first.

You are so helpful.

So.

Helpful.

Fat Chick
Fat Chick
1 year ago

I’m technically obese. I’ve been fat shamed my entire life.

But someone who is only an inch taller than me but weighs 60 pounds more is lecturing on how to “stop shoving pie into my face.”

yeah. no.

kupo
kupo
1 year ago

@Valkyrine
It’s just one of many, many examples of something that puts a person at higher risk for heath issues, such as broken bones or other bodily trauma from falling, pulmonary edema from changing altitude too quickly, etc. My examples weren’t meant to be about mobility specifically, just examples of higher risk of health issues.

It’s pretty telling, though, that people continually bring up things like “extra weight is hard on joints” but never “jogging is hard on joints” if we want to talk parallels, though. Health is a construct that decides some people are morally good (joggers) and others are morally wrong (fatties) based not on what’s in their control (one can stop jogging very easily, while only unicorns can lose weight), but rather what furthers the capitalist agenda.

And Lurker LXVII is 100% correct that poor health is considered a moral failing in the US at least, and most of the diet industry BS comes out of that, and this is why cries of “but it’s unhealthy!” are shaming tactics. If we were to show tall models in bathing suits and celibrate how great they look, would anyone be here talking about the health consequences of being tall?

Katamount
Katamount
1 year ago

I just wanted to underscore this comment from Crys T:

You do NOT get to play victim here: this was a thread about an ad showing a fairly positive representation of a fat woman and you decided you could not let that pass. You decided fat people couldn’t be allowed to feel mildly ok for a short minute.

Because I felt this dynamic myself for years. I was overweight for a lotta years (still am actually). While I didn’t get bullied for my weight, the sheer amount of concern-trolling combined with the near complete media shutout of any body types that differed from the accepted “healthy norm” kept me from full accepting my own body for many years. And even when I got there, my doctors had a nasty habit of re-opening those mental wounds with their concern trolling.

It’s a cultural cliche at this point that much like a black person wearing baggy pants, weight is just “that thing you are obligated to concern-troll”. Because they think acceptance is what keeps people that weight rather than any number of other factors. “If you hated the way you looked, you’d change it, right? Clearly, you must be comfortable with it and it’s my job to keep you uncomfortable. For your own good.”

And it’s telling that it’s any media representation that sets these concern-trolls off. Most of us shave at least one body part, no matter how much we weigh. Like, if this was an ad for a hair care product or deodorant, something everyone uses but is completely unrelated to weight, if it were a bigger person in the ad, they’d find a way to make it about the weight of the model.

Heaven forbid there’s a condom ad with a larger person in it, their poor heads might explode at the thought of us bigger folk being just as sexual as everyone else.