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Some Dems are sounding a lot like Kavanaugh defenders in their attacks on Biden accuser Lucy Flores

Biden has been doing this gropey shit for so long that someone made a Halloween costume out of it

UPDATE: Two more women have come forward to accuse Biden of inappropriate touching, making four in all.

By David Futrelle

It’s not exactly news that Joe Biden has a groping problem. We’ve all seen the videos, year after year, of Biden playing the role of creepy uncle at event after event, pawing weirdly at the shoulders, and hips, and sometimes even the chests of women and girls in his vicinity, fussing with their hair, perhaps leaning in to whisper something in their ears or even to kiss them on the back of their head.

But up until now we haven’t heard from any of the women in these videos — or anyone else treated in a similar way when the cameras weren’t near. No more. On Friday. as you no doubt know, Democratic politician and former Nevada State Assemblywoman Lucy Flores came forward with a story about how Biden, backstage at an campaign rally, had come up behind her and put his hands on her shoulders.

“I felt him get closer to me from behind,” Flores wrote in an essay published in New York magazine’s The Cut on Friday.

He leaned further in and inhaled my hair. I was mortified. I thought to myself, “I didn’t wash my hair today and the vice-president of the United States is smelling it. And also, what in the actual fuck? Why is the vice-president of the United States smelling my hair?” He proceeded to plant a big slow kiss on the back of my head.

Flores didn’t appreciate Biden’s act of “friendliness.” She was, rather,

embarrassed … shocked [and] confused. …

The vice-president of the United States of America had just touched me in an intimate way reserved for close friends, family, or romantic partners — and I felt powerless to do anything about it. …

At that moment, she recalled, she wanted the earth to open up and swallow her whole.

Now that she has come forward with her story, she may be feeling the same way — because her straightforward and eminently believable account is being attacked as a vicious lie, a smear job by a political operative who was possibly paid for her service.

Her attackers, most of them Democrats, are sounding more than a little like the MAGA-heads who attacked Brett Kavanaugh’s accuser
Christine Blasey Ford. It’s not a good look for any Democrat.

Some are asking her the same question so many Kavanaugh defenders asked about Ford: why didn’t she come forward immediately? The clear implication is that unless a woman goes public immediately with her accusations there is something fishy about her story.

Laurie Brunner
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@Twizznit
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Replying to @masher2112 @CardsAgstHrsmt
Certainly. Did Ms. Flores tell Mr. Biden, at the moment he touched her, that it made her uncomfortable and that she would prefer he not get that close to her? No? She waited 2 years, until a presidential bid is announced. Does that not strike anyone else as strange?
Biden did not sexually assault Flores, she even doesn't think so. At any point in the last five years she could have said something but chose to do so when she knew it would damage him politically - she admits this. This was clearly a political hit job.
lauritz larsen
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Replying to @MSNBC
Lucy Flores says, “I’m very progressive...”, but apparently she now feels that a hug and a peck of a kiss which, in the past, she clearly was not be repulsed by, is now disqualifying for Biden. 
This is disingenuous.

There are all sorts of perfectly legitimate and understandable reasons victims of sexual harassment or sexual assault don’t come forward immediately, or ever.

And Flores has already answered this question in her piece on The Cut: He was the fucking Vice President of the United States, who was there doing her a political favor. She didn’t think his actions quite rose “to the level of what most people consider sexual assault.” If she and Biden had been working in the same office, she could (and says she would) have gone to HR; there’s no mechanism to deal with this sort of thing in politics. And then there was the reaction she knew she would get from Biden supporters.

“For years,” she writes,

I feared my experience would be dismissed. Biden will be Biden. Boys will be boys. I worried about the doubts, the threats, the insults, and the minimization. “It’s not that big of a deal. He touched her, so what?” The immediate passing of judgement and the questioning of motives. “Why now? Why so long after? She just wants attention.” Or: “It’s politically motivated.”

In the few days since her story appeared online, every single one of these fears has come true.

What made her decide to come forward at last? She says it was the videos, the same videos we’ve all seen. She couldn’t stand to see a possible future president of the US doing to other women and girls what she says he did to her.

Of course, most of Flores’ critics either haven’t heard her explanation, or they have and have decided to dismiss it. For them, it’s all a big “smear,” a political “hit job,” probably on behalf of some nefarious villain.

For a lot of the critics, that villain is Bernie Sanders.

616grandma3
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@BykerKaren
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Replying to @WalshFreedom
It’s disturbing Ms Flores could  destroy Biden who championed for women rights before MeToo was popular because“he violated my space”.. How violated was she if she then had photos w/Biden standing close w/BIG smile on her face.Looks like Bernie supporter knocking out competition
@FrederickHay
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Lucy Flores’ unseemly attack on Joe Biden is a transparent and politically motivated play by a Bernie Sanders supporter to destroy Joe Biden’s candidacy and character. Another example of #metoo being used to destroy without any due process or fairness afforded the accused.

In fact, while Flores was a Bernie supporter in 2016 and served on the board of the Bernie-friendly Our Revolution organization for a time, she hasn’t said who she’s supporting this go-around As CNN has noted, she was recently spotted at a Beto rally, and has said positive things about Kamala Harris’ campaign.

Some are even suggesting Flores — a former Nevada state assemblywoman, serial Democratic candidate, and the head of a progressive Latina advocacy group called Luz Collective — is working as an agent for … Donald Trump or some shadowy Trump-friendly right-wing cabal.

Nick Borg
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Replying to @MSNBC
Who paid Flores to say these things now? I believe Biden kissed her in back of the head, yes, but I also think it wasn't a sexual gesture & I also believe someone paid Flores to come forward right now. Seems the Trump camp is very scared of Biden!!
Nate Morris
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@ZerlinaMaxwell Good tough discussion on MSNBC. Question. Has Ms. Flores come out against Trump's alleged sexual forays? Lesley Moonves? Hollywood Harvey? Al Franken? Or has she been hatched by GOP 'trickster money' to put an early dagger in Biden's campaign?
CWP
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Replying to @MSNBC
stfu Flores you lying exaggerating pos... how much you getting paid to cast aspersions on Biden, that’s the real story here...

One critic even seemed to suggest a plot spearheaded by meatloaf-headed Fox News host and Trump fan Sean Hannity … and
an obscure publication called Cutter magazine?

 
@Margaretscully8
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@. Since the inappropriate accusation was announced by @Fox and it was pulled from "Cutter" magazine(???) My guess is Flores  was paid to say this.  Biden probably gave her a hug congratulating her or soothing her after her loss.  This is a shot from the likes of Hannity #MeToo

This would be a strange conspiracy indeed, because, as far as I can tell, Cutter magazine doesn’t exist, and back when it did exist, it was not a political journal but rather a trade publication for hairstylists?

I kid. Obviously AlphaFemale is just mangling the name of the decidedly non-Hannityesque The Cut, where Flores’ piece was published, and which I’ve written for as well.

Many of Flores’ less-conspiracy minded critics think the only person she’s working for is herself — that she’s a fame-hungry nobody who just wants a moment in the spotlight.

JScub
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Replying to @DearAuntCrabby
Flores had plenty of pictures with Biden. Why didn't she just take him to the side and just tell him one on one! I'm uncomfortable. Case closed! No! She has to go on every fuc***g show on earth to get her 15 minutes of fame.
Factlover51
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@KPanekvogel
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@MSNBC Stop giving Flores the airtime. She's making this a political smear against Joe Biden. 15 minutes of fame in an attempt to kill a campaign. If she wants to be relevant she should get into REAL public service.
Natalie
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@distilledepoxy
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Replying to @distilledepoxy @kerryjames808 and 2 others
The fact that Flores is happy to go all over MSM is just gross. Instead of making a simple statement and asking that Biden apologize and do better,  she seems to be basking in the spotlight the MSM is giving her. Its just overboard.

This is, of course, exactly what many of Kavanaugh’s defenders said about Ford, who was, you may recall, so excited about her newfound fame that she literally went into hiding after her testimony to protect herself and her family from possible violence from the MAGAs who had bombarded her with threats and abuse.

Some are trying a time-tested strategy of psychological manipulation known as DARVO (Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender), accusing Flores of being the real sexual harasser, because she allegedly put her hand on his shoulder first.

Hubert Temba
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This is Lucy Flores putting her hand on Joe Biden’s shoulder. Come on, tell me who’s doing what on who. Women alleged unproven stuff against Al Franken and Franken resigned. Not this time. I support Biden. Let him run, let voters decide.
Trmpthucks
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Replying to @NadelParis @SenSanders
WHAAAA............. ?!?  Flores touched Biden first?  It's like Trump calling Cruz Lyin Ted. 
You know, a liar calling someone else a liar.

Never mind that a simple hand on the shoulder was never the issue. Flores, as you recall, says Biden, backstage at an event, grabbed both of her shoulders from behind, leaned forward to sniff her hair, and then “proceeded to plant a big slow kiss on the back of my head.” That’s different than briefly putting not even your hand but just two fingers on the shoulder of someone taking a selfie with you in it.

But the strangest, er, argument I’ve seen against Flores is that she’s a hypocrite because … she let Bernie touch her shoulders and didn’t complain about it.

When I first ran across this argument last night, in the tweet below, I was completely taken aback.

Sharon Holle
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So it's ok for #BernieSanders to put his hands on your shoulders but just not #JoeBiden?:    "Lucy Flores"

As I put it on Twitter: yeah, it’s kind of up to Flores to decide who can put their hands on her shoulders, since they are, you know, her shoulders.

Also, I don’t see Bernie smelling her hair or planting a big wet one of the back of her head.

Remarkably, I’ve run across others making the same weird argument as Holle:

Rebel Resister
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@WhatRU4USA
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Replying to @CBSNews
Funny how Flores didn’t have an issue with Bernie’s hands on her shoulders. Or putting her hands on Biden’s shoulders.

I was initially giving her the benefit of the doubt on this. I’m done with that. This is a political hit. I hate Bernie even more now.
Radicalized Julie Owens
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@juliecowens
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More Radicalized Julie Owens Retweeted Mac
Until Lucy Flores came forward, I was leaning toward Harris & Beto. Now, Biden is my likely candidate, after all the reminders of his compassion. Thanks, Lucy Flores -- your lie, in support of Bernie, helped me to see the truth about Joe more clearly.

This is appalling. It’s also not going to work. Kavanaugh won his #MeToo battle because Republicans — the politicians and the voters alike — have shown that they don’t give two shits about even the most credible stories of sexual harassment, sexual assault, or even child molestation — at least if the alleged perp is one of them.

But Democrats — most of them, anyway — actually care about this shit, as well they should. And Flores is only the first Biden accuser to speak up. A second accuser has already come forward with another story of inappropriate touching by Biden. More will surely follow, and because of the ample video evidence of Biden’s long history of bad touches it won’t be hard for most of us to believe them.

Last night I tried watching some of the videos in a Twitter thread devoted to Biden’s creepy behavior, and I couldn’t make it past the first couple of them without literally flinching in disgust — as some of the women and girls in the videos can’t help but doing themselves. To anyone still supporting Biden, I challenge you to watch the videos in this thread. Every single one of them. And then tell me that Flores is lying and that Biden is just a friendly old uncle. I don”t think you’ll be able to. His behavior is disqualifying. It can’t be excused any longer.

2020 is going to be ugly. But it will be a lot less ugly if Biden does the right thing and takes himself out of consideration. He’s had a long political career. It’s time for it to be over.

NOTE: I’m aware that there are trolls and even presumably some Russian bots on Twitter who are eager to amplify fights between the supporters of different candidates. I’ve made a point in this post to only quote those Tweeters who seem to be legit Democrats posting sincerely and to avoid those that have small follower counts or that look fishy for other reasons. And in case you’re wondering: I have not yet chosen a candidate myself; I have some issues with everyone out there, frankly, though there are several candidates I certainly could end up supporting without too much regret. I obviously would vote for even a literal piece of shit over Trump, but I would really prefer it if that piece of shit was not named Joe Biden.

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Katamount
Katamount
5 years ago

@kupo

Yeah, I was chiding you a bit on that last bit about “erasure”, because I do see that charge leveled at Sanders on social media. But like I said, he doesn’t need me to defend him any more than any of the other candidates do. He can answer for his own shortcomings and I think it’s only healthy when they get pointed out.

In retrospect, it was a childish thing to say and I should have grasped the context that it was related to the discussion rather than the election as a whole. I apologize wholeheartedly and I’ll say no more on this subject.

Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Intergalactic Meanie
Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Intergalactic Meanie
5 years ago

@Shadowplay,

I like how the other guys in that pic are looking at Biden like “You…just didn’t…do that….” Especially to an older guy in a police uniform.

Still, Biden shouldn’t be doing that kind of touching stuff at all, to either guys or gals, or anyone in between. One of these days he’s going to do it to the wrong person (Wolverine? Sabertooth?) and pull back a bloody stub.

Hambeast
Hambeast
5 years ago

Curious_Diversions said

I’m willing to give Biden the benefit of the doubt that his intentions are innocent. That really doesn’t matter though. The current social climate of what is “too far” is changing and people need to change with it.

Yes, this. The whole comment, but I don’t want to blockquote the whole thing.

I was heartbroken about the whole Al Franken thing (I had just finished reading his book at the time!) but I knew it was necessary for the big picture to change even a little bit. It seemed like Al just sucked it up and went home (I never heard about much in the way of excuses or blowback from him, anyway) and Joe needs to do the same.

Juniper
Juniper
5 years ago

I think the most generous interpretation I can muster for Biden’s behavior is that he’s an old-fashioned guy who doesn’t understand modern social norms about boundaries around women.

And that alone (the best case scenario) is enough for me to say “no thanks” to him.

Because aren’t there like 50 Democrats running? It’s not like we’re deprived of choices here.

I personally haven’t made up my mind about who I like best. It’s too early. At this point in the last campaign we probably were all still thinking Jeb! would be the Republican nominee. Maybe Biden’s our Jeb! this time. Everyone thinks he’s the safe choice now, but maybe someone else unexpected will emerge. Still plenty of time for that to happen.

(I’m also not too enthused about Sanders, but that’s because I’ve also had some unpleasant experiences with Bernie Bros. I try not to hold that against Bernie too much, but I still think he’d be better off staying in the Senate.)

(And as a Texan, I just really wish Beto had beat Ted Cruz, and now that he’s running for president, it seems like he’s just making a fool of himself. He would have been a really cool Texas senator though. *sigh* I wish he would run for something else instead.)

(And my inner 10 year old wants to pronounce Mayor Pete’s name “Booty Judge.” Tee hee hee. And that’s probably closer to the correct pronunciation than what a lot of people are saying, like “Butty Gig.”)

Rabid Rabbit
Rabid Rabbit
5 years ago

@Juniper:

Safe choice in that he might get white men to vote for him, but as this article points out, his creepiness isn’t the only reason feminists might not want to vote for him: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/apr/03/joe-biden-policies-are-as-troubling-as-his-inappropriate-touching

EWM
EWM
5 years ago

“But constant experience shows us that every man invested with power is apt to abuse it, and to carry his authority as far as it will go.” ~ Charles-Louis de Secondat

William Bombelyn
William Bombelyn
5 years ago

Biden has always voted like a moderate Republican so why are people so surprised that he behaves like a republican? Me, I’m sick of moderate Republicans running as Democrats. I want an FDR Democrat like Liz or Tusi.

Vic
Vic
5 years ago

@ Juniper:

(And my inner 10 year old wants to pronounce Mayor Pete’s name “Booty Judge.” Tee hee hee. And that’s probably closer to the correct pronunciation than what a lot of people are saying, like “Butty Gig.”)

In both of the TV appearances I’ve seen him on (Morning Joe and The View) he pronounced it as “Buddha-judge”, so you’re not actually far off.

Vic
Vic
5 years ago

@ Juniper:

(And my inner 10 year old wants to pronounce Mayor Pete’s name “Booty Judge.” Tee hee hee. And that’s probably closer to the correct pronunciation than what a lot of people are saying, like “Butty Gig.”)

In both of the TV appearances I’ve seen him on (Morning Joe and The View) he pronounced it as “Buddha-judge”, so you’re not actually far off.

Doethreetwoone
Doethreetwoone
5 years ago

With full respect to Ms. Flores’ interpretation of the event, I would suggest that (at least under the law here in Canada) Mr. Biden’s actions absolutely constituted Sexual Assault:

A) There was physical contact;

B) A reasonable person would objectively conclude that the contact had a sexual component; and

C) There was no consent to the contact (implied or otherwise) on the part of Ms. Flores.

Whether a prosecutor should conclude that this type of sexual assault is de minimis is something reasonable people can disagree about. But it was sexual assault nonetheless.

Lainy
Lainy
5 years ago

My favorite one is from the guy who’s like “oh so Bernie can touch you but this man can’t” which is ridiculous. That’s like saying “oh so you let your boyfriend touch your ass but if this completely random stranger on the street did it there’s a problem” like yeah buddy that’s how it works. You get to decided who touches you and just because one person can doesn’t mean ever else does.

kat
kat
5 years ago

it’s bad enough kavanaugh got a supreme court seat, now people are defending biden even though there’s hard evidence such as photo and video of his harassment/creepy behaviour.

auberus
auberus
5 years ago

I got two videos in and stopped halfway through the third. That shit happened to me when I was that age. It was child sexual abuse then, and it’s child sexual abuse now. The way he oh-so-accidentally touched that poor little girl’s chest — that was deliberate, and God himself couldn’t convince me otherwise.

Fuck Biden. Fuck his candidacy, and fuck everybody who’s defending him. That man belongs in prison, and the district attorneys in the jurisdictions in which those videos were filmed are cowards if they don’t press charges. Those videos made me physically ill, and if I were on a jury they’d be the only evidence I’d need to vote for a conviction.

auberus
auberus
5 years ago

@Juniper

I really have to disagree. Check out the thread provided in the post. If you can watch the first five videos without deciding that he should be facing prosecution, I’ll be very surprised. It is *not* okay to touch children like that.

kfreed
kfreed
5 years ago

Touching someone on their shoulder isn’t “groping.” Also Lucy Flores (Ms Bernie Bro” can be seen with Bernie’s hand on her shoulder just as she can be seen touching Biden. You idiots have really gone off the fucking deep end. You’ve completely lost the plot and after all this is over, your reputations will be swirling the toilet bowl.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

We’ve been over this already, so I’ll just respond with a hearty “fuck you.”

I’m starting to think Biden isn’t popular in spite of the groping and Julian Assange isn’t popular in spite of the rapes, they’re popular because of them.

It’s a way for people to support rape culture and be misogynistic while still thinking of themselves as progressive. They’re not opposed to consent. Heavens no! They just want to protect innocent men from evil women making false accusations to take them down politically!