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#metoo creepy empathy deficit entitled babies hypocrisy irony alert men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny sexual abuse sexual assault sexual harassment trump

Some Dems are sounding a lot like Kavanaugh defenders in their attacks on Biden accuser Lucy Flores

Biden has been doing this gropey shit for so long that someone made a Halloween costume out of it

UPDATE: Two more women have come forward to accuse Biden of inappropriate touching, making four in all.

By David Futrelle

It’s not exactly news that Joe Biden has a groping problem. We’ve all seen the videos, year after year, of Biden playing the role of creepy uncle at event after event, pawing weirdly at the shoulders, and hips, and sometimes even the chests of women and girls in his vicinity, fussing with their hair, perhaps leaning in to whisper something in their ears or even to kiss them on the back of their head.

But up until now we haven’t heard from any of the women in these videos — or anyone else treated in a similar way when the cameras weren’t near. No more. On Friday. as you no doubt know, Democratic politician and former Nevada State Assemblywoman Lucy Flores came forward with a story about how Biden, backstage at an campaign rally, had come up behind her and put his hands on her shoulders.

“I felt him get closer to me from behind,” Flores wrote in an essay published in New York magazine’s The Cut on Friday.

He leaned further in and inhaled my hair. I was mortified. I thought to myself, “I didn’t wash my hair today and the vice-president of the United States is smelling it. And also, what in the actual fuck? Why is the vice-president of the United States smelling my hair?” He proceeded to plant a big slow kiss on the back of my head.

Flores didn’t appreciate Biden’s act of “friendliness.” She was, rather,

embarrassed … shocked [and] confused. …

The vice-president of the United States of America had just touched me in an intimate way reserved for close friends, family, or romantic partners — and I felt powerless to do anything about it. …

At that moment, she recalled, she wanted the earth to open up and swallow her whole.

Now that she has come forward with her story, she may be feeling the same way — because her straightforward and eminently believable account is being attacked as a vicious lie, a smear job by a political operative who was possibly paid for her service.

Her attackers, most of them Democrats, are sounding more than a little like the MAGA-heads who attacked Brett Kavanaugh’s accuser
Christine Blasey Ford. It’s not a good look for any Democrat.

Some are asking her the same question so many Kavanaugh defenders asked about Ford: why didn’t she come forward immediately? The clear implication is that unless a woman goes public immediately with her accusations there is something fishy about her story.

Laurie Brunner
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@Twizznit
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Replying to @masher2112 @CardsAgstHrsmt
Certainly. Did Ms. Flores tell Mr. Biden, at the moment he touched her, that it made her uncomfortable and that she would prefer he not get that close to her? No? She waited 2 years, until a presidential bid is announced. Does that not strike anyone else as strange?
Biden did not sexually assault Flores, she even doesn't think so. At any point in the last five years she could have said something but chose to do so when she knew it would damage him politically - she admits this. This was clearly a political hit job.
lauritz larsen
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@larssolarsen
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Replying to @MSNBC
Lucy Flores says, “I’m very progressive...”, but apparently she now feels that a hug and a peck of a kiss which, in the past, she clearly was not be repulsed by, is now disqualifying for Biden. 
This is disingenuous.

There are all sorts of perfectly legitimate and understandable reasons victims of sexual harassment or sexual assault don’t come forward immediately, or ever.

And Flores has already answered this question in her piece on The Cut: He was the fucking Vice President of the United States, who was there doing her a political favor. She didn’t think his actions quite rose “to the level of what most people consider sexual assault.” If she and Biden had been working in the same office, she could (and says she would) have gone to HR; there’s no mechanism to deal with this sort of thing in politics. And then there was the reaction she knew she would get from Biden supporters.

“For years,” she writes,

I feared my experience would be dismissed. Biden will be Biden. Boys will be boys. I worried about the doubts, the threats, the insults, and the minimization. “It’s not that big of a deal. He touched her, so what?” The immediate passing of judgement and the questioning of motives. “Why now? Why so long after? She just wants attention.” Or: “It’s politically motivated.”

In the few days since her story appeared online, every single one of these fears has come true.

What made her decide to come forward at last? She says it was the videos, the same videos we’ve all seen. She couldn’t stand to see a possible future president of the US doing to other women and girls what she says he did to her.

Of course, most of Flores’ critics either haven’t heard her explanation, or they have and have decided to dismiss it. For them, it’s all a big “smear,” a political “hit job,” probably on behalf of some nefarious villain.

For a lot of the critics, that villain is Bernie Sanders.

616grandma3
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@BykerKaren
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Replying to @WalshFreedom
It’s disturbing Ms Flores could  destroy Biden who championed for women rights before MeToo was popular because“he violated my space”.. How violated was she if she then had photos w/Biden standing close w/BIG smile on her face.Looks like Bernie supporter knocking out competition
@FrederickHay
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Lucy Flores’ unseemly attack on Joe Biden is a transparent and politically motivated play by a Bernie Sanders supporter to destroy Joe Biden’s candidacy and character. Another example of #metoo being used to destroy without any due process or fairness afforded the accused.

In fact, while Flores was a Bernie supporter in 2016 and served on the board of the Bernie-friendly Our Revolution organization for a time, she hasn’t said who she’s supporting this go-around As CNN has noted, she was recently spotted at a Beto rally, and has said positive things about Kamala Harris’ campaign.

Some are even suggesting Flores — a former Nevada state assemblywoman, serial Democratic candidate, and the head of a progressive Latina advocacy group called Luz Collective — is working as an agent for … Donald Trump or some shadowy Trump-friendly right-wing cabal.

Nick Borg
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@NickBorg63
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Replying to @MSNBC
Who paid Flores to say these things now? I believe Biden kissed her in back of the head, yes, but I also think it wasn't a sexual gesture & I also believe someone paid Flores to come forward right now. Seems the Trump camp is very scared of Biden!!
Nate Morris
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@LennyBruce22
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@ZerlinaMaxwell Good tough discussion on MSNBC. Question. Has Ms. Flores come out against Trump's alleged sexual forays? Lesley Moonves? Hollywood Harvey? Al Franken? Or has she been hatched by GOP 'trickster money' to put an early dagger in Biden's campaign?
CWP
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@saintcats
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Replying to @MSNBC
stfu Flores you lying exaggerating pos... how much you getting paid to cast aspersions on Biden, that’s the real story here...

One critic even seemed to suggest a plot spearheaded by meatloaf-headed Fox News host and Trump fan Sean Hannity … and
an obscure publication called Cutter magazine?

 
@Margaretscully8
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@. Since the inappropriate accusation was announced by @Fox and it was pulled from "Cutter" magazine(???) My guess is Flores  was paid to say this.  Biden probably gave her a hug congratulating her or soothing her after her loss.  This is a shot from the likes of Hannity #MeToo

This would be a strange conspiracy indeed, because, as far as I can tell, Cutter magazine doesn’t exist, and back when it did exist, it was not a political journal but rather a trade publication for hairstylists?

I kid. Obviously AlphaFemale is just mangling the name of the decidedly non-Hannityesque The Cut, where Flores’ piece was published, and which I’ve written for as well.

Many of Flores’ less-conspiracy minded critics think the only person she’s working for is herself — that she’s a fame-hungry nobody who just wants a moment in the spotlight.

JScub
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@js26783_joe
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Replying to @DearAuntCrabby
Flores had plenty of pictures with Biden. Why didn't she just take him to the side and just tell him one on one! I'm uncomfortable. Case closed! No! She has to go on every fuc***g show on earth to get her 15 minutes of fame.
Factlover51
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@KPanekvogel
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@MSNBC Stop giving Flores the airtime. She's making this a political smear against Joe Biden. 15 minutes of fame in an attempt to kill a campaign. If she wants to be relevant she should get into REAL public service.
Natalie
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@distilledepoxy
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Replying to @distilledepoxy @kerryjames808 and 2 others
The fact that Flores is happy to go all over MSM is just gross. Instead of making a simple statement and asking that Biden apologize and do better,  she seems to be basking in the spotlight the MSM is giving her. Its just overboard.

This is, of course, exactly what many of Kavanaugh’s defenders said about Ford, who was, you may recall, so excited about her newfound fame that she literally went into hiding after her testimony to protect herself and her family from possible violence from the MAGAs who had bombarded her with threats and abuse.

Some are trying a time-tested strategy of psychological manipulation known as DARVO (Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender), accusing Flores of being the real sexual harasser, because she allegedly put her hand on his shoulder first.

Hubert Temba
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@HubertTemba
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This is Lucy Flores putting her hand on Joe Biden’s shoulder. Come on, tell me who’s doing what on who. Women alleged unproven stuff against Al Franken and Franken resigned. Not this time. I support Biden. Let him run, let voters decide.
Trmpthucks
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@GeorgeM78000114
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Replying to @NadelParis @SenSanders
WHAAAA............. ?!?  Flores touched Biden first?  It's like Trump calling Cruz Lyin Ted. 
You know, a liar calling someone else a liar.

Never mind that a simple hand on the shoulder was never the issue. Flores, as you recall, says Biden, backstage at an event, grabbed both of her shoulders from behind, leaned forward to sniff her hair, and then “proceeded to plant a big slow kiss on the back of my head.” That’s different than briefly putting not even your hand but just two fingers on the shoulder of someone taking a selfie with you in it.

But the strangest, er, argument I’ve seen against Flores is that she’s a hypocrite because … she let Bernie touch her shoulders and didn’t complain about it.

When I first ran across this argument last night, in the tweet below, I was completely taken aback.

Sharon Holle
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@HolleSharon
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So it's ok for #BernieSanders to put his hands on your shoulders but just not #JoeBiden?:    "Lucy Flores"

As I put it on Twitter: yeah, it’s kind of up to Flores to decide who can put their hands on her shoulders, since they are, you know, her shoulders.

Also, I don’t see Bernie smelling her hair or planting a big wet one of the back of her head.

Remarkably, I’ve run across others making the same weird argument as Holle:

Rebel Resister
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@WhatRU4USA
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Replying to @CBSNews
Funny how Flores didn’t have an issue with Bernie’s hands on her shoulders. Or putting her hands on Biden’s shoulders.

I was initially giving her the benefit of the doubt on this. I’m done with that. This is a political hit. I hate Bernie even more now.
Radicalized Julie Owens
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@juliecowens
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More Radicalized Julie Owens Retweeted Mac
Until Lucy Flores came forward, I was leaning toward Harris & Beto. Now, Biden is my likely candidate, after all the reminders of his compassion. Thanks, Lucy Flores -- your lie, in support of Bernie, helped me to see the truth about Joe more clearly.

This is appalling. It’s also not going to work. Kavanaugh won his #MeToo battle because Republicans — the politicians and the voters alike — have shown that they don’t give two shits about even the most credible stories of sexual harassment, sexual assault, or even child molestation — at least if the alleged perp is one of them.

But Democrats — most of them, anyway — actually care about this shit, as well they should. And Flores is only the first Biden accuser to speak up. A second accuser has already come forward with another story of inappropriate touching by Biden. More will surely follow, and because of the ample video evidence of Biden’s long history of bad touches it won’t be hard for most of us to believe them.

Last night I tried watching some of the videos in a Twitter thread devoted to Biden’s creepy behavior, and I couldn’t make it past the first couple of them without literally flinching in disgust — as some of the women and girls in the videos can’t help but doing themselves. To anyone still supporting Biden, I challenge you to watch the videos in this thread. Every single one of them. And then tell me that Flores is lying and that Biden is just a friendly old uncle. I don”t think you’ll be able to. His behavior is disqualifying. It can’t be excused any longer.

2020 is going to be ugly. But it will be a lot less ugly if Biden does the right thing and takes himself out of consideration. He’s had a long political career. It’s time for it to be over.

NOTE: I’m aware that there are trolls and even presumably some Russian bots on Twitter who are eager to amplify fights between the supporters of different candidates. I’ve made a point in this post to only quote those Tweeters who seem to be legit Democrats posting sincerely and to avoid those that have small follower counts or that look fishy for other reasons. And in case you’re wondering: I have not yet chosen a candidate myself; I have some issues with everyone out there, frankly, though there are several candidates I certainly could end up supporting without too much regret. I obviously would vote for even a literal piece of shit over Trump, but I would really prefer it if that piece of shit was not named Joe Biden.

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Rabid Rabbit
Rabid Rabbit
1 year ago

@Katamount

Other watching-from-the-northern-sidelines person here… I don’t remember where I saw it, but someone made what struck me as a pretty good argument a while back about why Bernie’s not the ideal candidate this time round. As I recall, the point was that last time, some people were conflicted because of the choice between Bernie (left-wing credibility) and Hillary (woman). This time, you’ve got Warren, who’s both. Two for the price of one, and the conflict’s avoided.

True, Warren completely messed up the ancestry thing.

Anyhow, my current scorecard is Warren-Booker, or maybe Warren-Buttigieg, but I’m sure I’ll shift the cards around on the deck a few times before the season’s over.

cornychips
cornychips
1 year ago

Yeah, that shit is creepy as fuck. If you wouldn’t do it to a fucking man, dont do it to me you fucking creepster. The way he hands ride up VERY high, on the waist, about two inches from breast tissue. NOPE.

Im so glad this is blowing up. He sucks.

Katamount
Katamount
1 year ago

@Jenora Feuer

According to Vox, more Hillary supporters went to McCain in 2008 than Bernie supporters went to Trump in 2016, leaving 9 out of 10 who voted for Hillary in the general.

I do agree that there is an “upend the status quo” constituency finding a home in the Bernie camp, but I find that’s more a vocal minority (the “Bernie Bro”) embodied in people like Glenn Greenwald, who doesn’t even live in the US.

@kupo

Well, I sit every American election out; I’m not American. I do follow them closely though… and holding Bernie responsible for Hillary’s loss… that just doesn’t hold up given how hard Bernie campaigned for her in the general.

I think it’s also important to consider those women and PoC that do support Bernie. After all, we wouldn’t want to engage in the same erasure that is alleged of Bernie and his supporters.

@Rabid Rabbit

Warren’s right up there in my ranking. I also like what I’ve seen of Buttigieg.

Gaebolga
Gaebolga
1 year ago

Nowherepants wrote:

Joe Biden may be a son-of-a-bitch, but he’s Our son-of-a-bitch.

Nth-ing the “not my son-of-a-bitch” protests, and adding how much I hate that idiom, for multiple reasons.

1) I don’t want to be associated with anyone who thinks acting like a son-of-a-bitch is acceptable. You don’t have to act like an asshole to fight for your beliefs. The only kind of person who acts like an asshole is someone who’s a fucking asshole; no one can force you to do it.

2) The phrase is inherently misogynistic.

3) One of the warrants of that particular idiom is that everyone’s morals or standards of behavior are provisional given the right circumstances. Screw that bullshit.

kupo
kupo
1 year ago

@Katamount

I think it’s also important to consider those women and PoC that do support Bernie. After all, we wouldn’t want to engage in the same erasure that is alleged of Bernie and his supporters.

Hi, I’m a woman who supported Bernie and voted for him in the primaries and I’m saying that you do not speak for me and you need to STOP.

kupo
kupo
1 year ago

Edit timer ran out, but wanted to add that I meant to sit this discussion out, not this election because A) I know you’re Canadian and B) I would never tell someone to sit an election out, holy forkballs, what an awful thing to accuse me of saying. And accusing me of erasing people who support Bernie is forking awful as well.

Stevie
Stevie
1 year ago

Thank you! I’m pretty damn horrified by the response to this. And I honestly think this behavior goes hand in hand with his previous opposition to women’s rights and same sex marriage. As well as his behavior towards Anita Hill.

Donnie
Donnie
1 year ago

Its more than a little disgusting a journalist would compare the alleged sexual assault of kavanaugh to biden being too close to a woman’s hair. If you really think those are comparable, youre a dangerous individual.

Aaron
Aaron
1 year ago

Hi, I’m a woman who supported Bernie and voted for him in the primaries and I’m saying that you do not speak for me and you need to STOP.

Katamount is not presuming to speak for you in any way.

Simon
Simon
1 year ago
Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
1 year ago

@Aaron –

Katamount is not presuming to speak for you in any way.

How do you interpret this, then? (quotation is from Katamount.)

I think it’s also important to consider those women and PoC that do support Bernie. After all, we wouldn’t want to engage in the same erasure that is alleged of Bernie and his supporters.

Because I read it as “there are women and PoC who supported Bernie, and we need to remember their voices. So your voice is not needed.”

You might disagree with the last sentence. But if you do, what is the purpose of the first? Surely the last bit is implied?

Rabid Rabbit
Rabid Rabbit
1 year ago

@Rhuu

Honest question — how are you getting “So your voice is not needed” from that? I don’t see it at all.

Moon Custafer
Moon Custafer
1 year ago

@Rabid Rabbit:

It’s not just Rhuu— I also read it as chiding Kupo for “erasing” women and PoC who had voted for Bernie (and who, unless I missed something, were at that stage in the conversation theoretical, since Kupo had not yet identified herself as a woman who had previously supported Bernie), by criticizing him.

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
1 year ago

Fuck predation, fuck predators, fuck entitled white politicians…. The power dynamic between a Vice-President and ANY candidate for State elective office is heavily skewed. He doesn’t get a pass on this. For anyone who thinks he should, would he do the same thing to a man in the same situation??? If not, then HOW DO YOU SPIN his actions in ANY WAY OTHER than he is demeaning her and erasing her political authority.

At the very least.

I don’t want Joe Biden in the white house, and I’m not real fond of Sanders, either, though I like his policies more than Uncle Joe’s. For me, there are seven shitloads of changes to our society since Biden, Sanders, Pelosi, et.al. came up through the ranks. I want some leadership that UNDERSTANDS those changes and works to move us forward. We don’t need “grandfatherly touching,” we don’t need “it’s not white privilege, it’s ‘economic anxiety’,” we don’t need “we just can’t do ‘excellent’, we need to stick with ‘mediocre’ “…

I’m not saying that we just need new blood, but there are some younger democrats who seem much more in touch with the reality that we’ve got BIG problems, and we can’t solve them with half-assed solutions.

Aaron
Aaron
1 year ago

As for Biden, I have mixed feelings. I do like a great deal of his record, and he was a strong VP with a “clownish” reputation that I always thought was a little unfair. And whether or not these incidents are morally “disqualifying” is sort of beside the point in my opinion. The voters will decide on that.

It’s obvious that Biden is more moderate than most of the rest of the field. And while it’s fine to change and evolve – as he seems to have done in his view of the Clarence Thomas hearings – there’s also a point at which you are obviously just projecting a false image.

So if he’s going to run, Biden needs to own the moderate lane and make the case for those positions. I’m not saying I’d necessarily agree with him, but I’m not interested in watching him structure his campaign as an extended apology tour. If he’s really ashamed of his entire political career, he probably shouldn’t run. And if he’s not (he’s not), he needs to own it, and make a case for a more moderate Democratic platform.

If he does that, and the voters choose him, I’ll line up behind him in the general. If he turns his campaign into some kind of fake personal development seminar, I’ll pass.

Hippodameia
Hippodameia
1 year ago

I don’t want to hear a single word about or from Sanders until he releases his tax returns.

Mels
Mels
1 year ago

@Eddie, well-said. I’ll vote for whomever the winning Dem candidate is in the general election, even if it’s someone I don’t like. But in the primary, no white men for me. 44/45 white male presidents is enough. And no centrists of any background who can’t grok the dire stakes at hand.

Regarding Bernie, I’m gonna get wordier than I usually do here because my brain fog is clear. I’m not looking to attack anyone on this site – just describe a personal experience.

Here’s the problem: I cried when I saw him re-announce his candidacy, and I’m not the only woman who did so. Why? Because I can’t take more of the harassment. People like to paint the Bernie bro concept as a silly meme, but social media harassment from a certain subset of Bernie fans toward prominent women and especially WOC has often been WORSE than the harassment from maga-types. It’s hard to describe if you haven’t experienced or witnessed it firsthand, but it is really that bad.

Do I think Bernie defenders are axiomatically bad? No. But the harassment is a complicating factor here, because even if he doesn’t personally support it, Bernie benefits from it. His condemnations of the harassment have been weaksauce because, I can only assume, he knows he needs all the support he can get, even from the assholes.

The reason so many women are touchy about this is that we’re already exhausted, and it’s hard enough to deal with right-wing misogyny without ostensible lefties invoking Bernie’s name while threatening us and calling us all sorts of delightful slurs. And still others may never engage in that behavior, but they enable it by insisting that it can’t really be that bad or that we’re overreacting.

To tie it in with the high quality victim-blamers covered in this article: it’s demoralizing to try to fight sexism and other bigotry on the right when a good chunk of your self-proclaimed progressive cohort treats women as subhuman too.

Snowberry
Snowberry
1 year ago

My father’s side of the family had… issues with this sort of thing.

One of my aunts was grabby and huggy, and a lot of people weren’t comfortable with that. My mother in particular, who was prone to panic attacks if it happened unexpectedly. My uncle would give annoying or even hurtful nicknames to everyone, and use them incessantly, even when it made little sense to keep referring to someone by name. My grandfather kept trying to force whoever the youngest child was to sit on his lap or have alone time with him, to the point where one of my cousins and I, who were oldest, had to keep running interference to keep his hands off the younger kids. (We did not know about pedophilia, or even if it was that, because he never had a chance to go too far. We only knew that it caused distress.)

And of course, the three of them kept making excuses for each other (and my father made excuses for them as well). Most of the other adults were generally shamed into tolerating it or looking the other way. It didn’t work very well with the kids, who mostly just learned the lesson that adults are stupid and useless. Well, except my brother, who took the whole “it’s okay to be inappropriate and stomp boundaries” thing to heart… and barely even tries to not look non-malicious, not that he’s any good at it anyway.

Doesn’t dare to try anything in front of me or my oldest cousin, though. Let’s just say that it never ends well for him. That’s why I’m suspicious about most of those people truly “meaning well”.

Snowberry
Snowberry
1 year ago

…”Inappropriate Biden” memes have been around for awhile, anyway. They’re more about him suggesting pranks than touching people, though. He’s like America’s Grandpa, bland and inoffensive to those who don’t know him well, kind of creepy to those who do. (Apologies to those grandfathers who are actually awesome…)

Rabid Rabbit
Rabid Rabbit
1 year ago

OT, except it’s also about old white men not getting it: https://www.theguardian.com/law/2019/apr/03/english-judge-says-man-having-sex-with-wife-is-fundamental-human-right

People are trying to get a court order preventing a man from having sex with his wife, as she’s deemed no longer mentally competent to give consent. Judge says that he can’t think of a human right more fundamental than that of a man to have sex with his wife. Lovely.

Vic
Vic
1 year ago

Not that we need any more reasons to say “No” to a Biden run, but in addition to all of the above let’s not overlook his part as one of the architects of the War On Drugs(TM), and the consequent damage that has wrought on poor people, people of color, anyone caught up in the prison-industrial complex, etc.

Shadowplay
1 year ago

@Weird Eddie

Word. No one over 50 would be my preference – man OR woman.

The world is different than it were when I were 30 – so different its sometimes like being on a completely new planet. Except for politics. Same damned faces, same damned names.

And, to be completely blunt, my generation had our shot. Fucked up somethings, yes, and did some things well. Time for the younguns to have their say is my opinion.

I’ve met Biden. He’s a bigger arsehole in real life than he is in the news or in memes – I wouldn’t trust him as a crossing guard, never mind with actual power. Though, as a response to those who are saying “He doesn’t do it to men” – yes. He does. Fucking constantly, and it is really, really annoying.

Have you never seen this?

Onager
Onager
1 year ago

I tried The Biden Challenge and noped out after the first few. That thread is a real horror show, I got angry faster than I was expecting, and find it troubling that anyone would try to defend him when faced with that he clearly has an MO with his nuzzling/hair sniffing and his… unusual hand placement.

If it wasn’t for his powerful position and hovering close protection team I’d imagine one of those parents/grandparents would have taken a swing at him rather than just having to run interference.

Amtep
Amtep
1 year ago

@Hambeast

You might enjoy this detail: Ferraro broke some conservatives’ brains at the time. They couldn’t call her “Miss Ferraro” because she was married. They couldn’t call her “Mrs. Ferraro” because her husband’s name wasn’t Ferraro. They had to settle for “Ms. Ferraro”.

Jarnsaxa
Jarnsaxa
1 year ago

I lost all respect for Biden after his nonpology. What she said he did could have been an innocent error, but his weaselly, disrespectful and vacillating “apology” showed cowardice, disrespect and a lack of integrity.

Which in turn indicates to me that yeah, probably wasn’t an accident.

Katamount
Katamount
1 year ago

@kupo

Yeah, I was chiding you a bit on that last bit about “erasure”, because I do see that charge leveled at Sanders on social media. But like I said, he doesn’t need me to defend him any more than any of the other candidates do. He can answer for his own shortcomings and I think it’s only healthy when they get pointed out.

In retrospect, it was a childish thing to say and I should have grasped the context that it was related to the discussion rather than the election as a whole. I apologize wholeheartedly and I’ll say no more on this subject.

Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Intergalactic Meanie
Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Intergalactic Meanie
1 year ago

@Shadowplay,

I like how the other guys in that pic are looking at Biden like “You…just didn’t…do that….” Especially to an older guy in a police uniform.

Still, Biden shouldn’t be doing that kind of touching stuff at all, to either guys or gals, or anyone in between. One of these days he’s going to do it to the wrong person (Wolverine? Sabertooth?) and pull back a bloody stub.

Hambeast
Hambeast
1 year ago

Curious_Diversions said

I’m willing to give Biden the benefit of the doubt that his intentions are innocent. That really doesn’t matter though. The current social climate of what is “too far” is changing and people need to change with it.

Yes, this. The whole comment, but I don’t want to blockquote the whole thing.

I was heartbroken about the whole Al Franken thing (I had just finished reading his book at the time!) but I knew it was necessary for the big picture to change even a little bit. It seemed like Al just sucked it up and went home (I never heard about much in the way of excuses or blowback from him, anyway) and Joe needs to do the same.

Juniper
Juniper
1 year ago

I think the most generous interpretation I can muster for Biden’s behavior is that he’s an old-fashioned guy who doesn’t understand modern social norms about boundaries around women.

And that alone (the best case scenario) is enough for me to say “no thanks” to him.

Because aren’t there like 50 Democrats running? It’s not like we’re deprived of choices here.

I personally haven’t made up my mind about who I like best. It’s too early. At this point in the last campaign we probably were all still thinking Jeb! would be the Republican nominee. Maybe Biden’s our Jeb! this time. Everyone thinks he’s the safe choice now, but maybe someone else unexpected will emerge. Still plenty of time for that to happen.

(I’m also not too enthused about Sanders, but that’s because I’ve also had some unpleasant experiences with Bernie Bros. I try not to hold that against Bernie too much, but I still think he’d be better off staying in the Senate.)

(And as a Texan, I just really wish Beto had beat Ted Cruz, and now that he’s running for president, it seems like he’s just making a fool of himself. He would have been a really cool Texas senator though. *sigh* I wish he would run for something else instead.)

(And my inner 10 year old wants to pronounce Mayor Pete’s name “Booty Judge.” Tee hee hee. And that’s probably closer to the correct pronunciation than what a lot of people are saying, like “Butty Gig.”)

Rabid Rabbit
Rabid Rabbit
1 year ago

@Juniper:

Safe choice in that he might get white men to vote for him, but as this article points out, his creepiness isn’t the only reason feminists might not want to vote for him: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/apr/03/joe-biden-policies-are-as-troubling-as-his-inappropriate-touching

EWM
EWM
1 year ago

“But constant experience shows us that every man invested with power is apt to abuse it, and to carry his authority as far as it will go.” ~ Charles-Louis de Secondat

William Bombelyn
William Bombelyn
1 year ago

Biden has always voted like a moderate Republican so why are people so surprised that he behaves like a republican? Me, I’m sick of moderate Republicans running as Democrats. I want an FDR Democrat like Liz or Tusi.

Vic
Vic
1 year ago

@ Juniper:

(And my inner 10 year old wants to pronounce Mayor Pete’s name “Booty Judge.” Tee hee hee. And that’s probably closer to the correct pronunciation than what a lot of people are saying, like “Butty Gig.”)

In both of the TV appearances I’ve seen him on (Morning Joe and The View) he pronounced it as “Buddha-judge”, so you’re not actually far off.

Vic
Vic
1 year ago

@ Juniper:

(And my inner 10 year old wants to pronounce Mayor Pete’s name “Booty Judge.” Tee hee hee. And that’s probably closer to the correct pronunciation than what a lot of people are saying, like “Butty Gig.”)

In both of the TV appearances I’ve seen him on (Morning Joe and The View) he pronounced it as “Buddha-judge”, so you’re not actually far off.

Doethreetwoone
Doethreetwoone
1 year ago

With full respect to Ms. Flores’ interpretation of the event, I would suggest that (at least under the law here in Canada) Mr. Biden’s actions absolutely constituted Sexual Assault:

A) There was physical contact;

B) A reasonable person would objectively conclude that the contact had a sexual component; and

C) There was no consent to the contact (implied or otherwise) on the part of Ms. Flores.

Whether a prosecutor should conclude that this type of sexual assault is de minimis is something reasonable people can disagree about. But it was sexual assault nonetheless.

Lainy
Lainy
1 year ago

My favorite one is from the guy who’s like “oh so Bernie can touch you but this man can’t” which is ridiculous. That’s like saying “oh so you let your boyfriend touch your ass but if this completely random stranger on the street did it there’s a problem” like yeah buddy that’s how it works. You get to decided who touches you and just because one person can doesn’t mean ever else does.

kat
kat
1 year ago

it’s bad enough kavanaugh got a supreme court seat, now people are defending biden even though there’s hard evidence such as photo and video of his harassment/creepy behaviour.

auberus
auberus
1 year ago

I got two videos in and stopped halfway through the third. That shit happened to me when I was that age. It was child sexual abuse then, and it’s child sexual abuse now. The way he oh-so-accidentally touched that poor little girl’s chest — that was deliberate, and God himself couldn’t convince me otherwise.

Fuck Biden. Fuck his candidacy, and fuck everybody who’s defending him. That man belongs in prison, and the district attorneys in the jurisdictions in which those videos were filmed are cowards if they don’t press charges. Those videos made me physically ill, and if I were on a jury they’d be the only evidence I’d need to vote for a conviction.

auberus
auberus
1 year ago

@Juniper

I really have to disagree. Check out the thread provided in the post. If you can watch the first five videos without deciding that he should be facing prosecution, I’ll be very surprised. It is *not* okay to touch children like that.

kfreed
kfreed
1 year ago

Touching someone on their shoulder isn’t “groping.” Also Lucy Flores (Ms Bernie Bro” can be seen with Bernie’s hand on her shoulder just as she can be seen touching Biden. You idiots have really gone off the fucking deep end. You’ve completely lost the plot and after all this is over, your reputations will be swirling the toilet bowl.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

We’ve been over this already, so I’ll just respond with a hearty “fuck you.”

I’m starting to think Biden isn’t popular in spite of the groping and Julian Assange isn’t popular in spite of the rapes, they’re popular because of them.

It’s a way for people to support rape culture and be misogynistic while still thinking of themselves as progressive. They’re not opposed to consent. Heavens no! They just want to protect innocent men from evil women making false accusations to take them down politically!