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no trolls allowed none dare call it conspiracy open thread pandas trump

It also does not exonerate him: Mueller Sunday Open Thread (with bonus PANDAS)

Trump violating the emoluments clause by promoting his membership club while pretending to work

By David Futrelle

Weird how Mueller’s conclusion that his report “does not exonerate” Trump has been taken to mean — by the White House, by mainstream media hacks, by right-wing propagandists and even by a certain segment of the left — that his report totally exonerates Trump and that the whole investigation (which resulted in 37 indictments, 7 guilty pleas and 4 people going to prison) was a waste of time.

Let’s maybe see how things look after we get the report itself — and after the House does its own investigation of the Russia matter and all the rest of the corruption in the Trump White House and over his long, sleazy career. Let’s see Barr and Mueller testify in public to start to answer some of the many questions that remain,

Anyway, here are some relevant tweets, a couple of panda videos, and an open thread.

https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/1109913781310763009

In other news:

https://twitter.com/SlenderSherbet/status/1108811533952393217
https://twitter.com/SlenderSherbet/status/1109886468061908995

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moregeekthan
moregeekthan
1 year ago

I am still assuming that the stuff most likely to produce indictment for members of the Trump family has been sent to SDNY, where the justice department can’t meddle. Time will tell, I suppose.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

It’s criminally irresponsible for the media to call this an exoneration of Trump when the letter said it wasn’t and to take Barr’s summary as completely dependable when Barr has made a career out of covering for Republicans.

I realize that the MSM are owned by giant corporations and want to preserve the status quo as the wealthy tend to do. But do they not realize that a slide into authoritarianism isn’t actually good for the media? I mean, Fox News will be all right because they’re all ready right wing state media, but everyone else is already on the “fake news” enemies list and will never get off it. Are they so desperate to suck up to authority in the usual way that they’ll destroy themselves to do it? I guess so.

I’m not as disappointed as some people because I already knew that the justice system does not do justice, it is set up to protect the wealth and power of the wealthy and powerful. I never thought Mueller would save us. But I am still angry.

If the Dems have any guts (and they probably don’t) they’ll call Mueller and Rosenstein to testify about why they gave cushy cooperation deals to all those people they indicted if they had no intention of using that cooperation to hold the big fish to account.

Anyway, I hope someone on Mueller’s team is patriotic enough to leak everything. Because I guarantee that there is some damning shit being concealed from us.

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
1 year ago

I expect so as well, and for a second reason: so the resulting convictions are immune to Trump (or Pence, etc.) pardons.

There may also be Congressional action, up to and including impeachment, of course.

rick
rick
1 year ago

You’d almost think the democrats wasted too much time on this when they could have been fully re-branding themselves as a party of fresh alternatives and not the status quo failures they seem to be. Well, at least they made the world a more dangerous place by ramping up the bellicosity with Russia over this failed endeavour.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Rick,

Are you assuming that Trump didn’t coordinate with Russia to attack the 2016 election?

Or are you saying that it doesn’t matter if he did?

There’s no fresh alternatives that are ever going to be implemented if we have one major political party dedicated to attacking what Democracy we do have. And make no mistake, that’s what they are doing. As right wing ideology becomes less and less popular, the only way they will retain power is by rigging the elections.

KindaSortaHarmless
KindaSortaHarmless
1 year ago

@rick

And the fascists have been making the world a more dangerous place by kowtowing to Russia and other autocrats, but sure, let’s focus on how the party not in power has been resisting tyranny imperfectly.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Here’s a really good thread about the subject and why you should not trust the reporting on it. It’s in thread reader form, so it reads like a blog post or editorial.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1109913558333210629.html

Seraph4377
Seraph4377
1 year ago

when they could have been fully re-branding themselves as a party of fresh alternatives

So. Three possibilities here:

1) The kind of “progressive” who thinks that the only legitimate change would be to shift the focus entirely to economic issues and ignore “identity politics”. Also, the only truly progressive leader for the party is Bernie, and anyone else means they’re not serious.

2) Not paying attention. At all. To the point that you’re simply mouthing the narrative you’re used to and not even noticing that the second most talked-about politician in the country, the new face of the Democratic party (for all that she’s just one of a new generation that’s shaking things up – and the wisest party elders are working with her on that), is bringing a whole lot of fresh alternatives.

3) Troll.

Which is it?

Well, at least they made the world a more dangerous place by ramping up the bellicosity with Russia over this failed endeavour.

Russia interfered in the 2016 presidential election. That is not in question. That is fact. We should be doing a lot more about this.

As for bellicosity, this was an act of war. If they’d tried this thirty years ago, the nukes would have flown, and rightly so.

PS – You used the UK English spelling for “endeavour”. Are you perhaps writing this from somewhere in Europe, comrade?

numerobis
numerobis
1 year ago

Where did you find that footage of me getting into a hammock?

I’m shocked at the violation of privacy.

Mabret (née Laugher at Bigots)
Mabret (née Laugher at Bigots)
1 year ago

I go in on Thursday to see a doctor about getting HRT! I’m excited!

Cheesynougats
Cheesynougats
1 year ago

@Mabret, congo rats (as we used to say when someone leveled up in EQ)! I hope you get good news.

AuthoritarinismAlwaysRepeats
AuthoritarinismAlwaysRepeats
1 year ago

Trump won’t be happy to simply get away with his crimes. No, he will want revenge. And he is exactly as well known for overplaying his hand as he is for his vindictiveness. And now, he thinks he’s untouchable. We may see mass incarcerations of political opponents and efforts to dominate and humiliate every Democrat voter. With trump finally pulling off a win, this is about to get really ugly.

Talonknife
Talonknife
1 year ago

I’ve been waiting for an open thread to ask this. How do I upload an avatar? I’m not really familiar with Gravatar.

TreePerson
TreePerson
1 year ago

@Mabret
I hope they work well for you!

I think I read that congress voted unanimously to release the report so there is probably going to be a fight over that,
I’m also expecting a leak of the report at some point if that drags on (and some fake leaks to muddy the waters).

Jarnsaxa
Jarnsaxa
1 year ago

Go Mabret!! You got this.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
1 year ago

Perversely, I can believe that there was no collusion at the very top of the chain. Trump has never masterminded anything in his life, and his kids are even dumber than he is. He likes to take credit for being a smart negotiator and a winner, but Trump is just a passive cardboard figure, a venal mediocrity who’s been surrounded and propped up by criminals all of his miserable life. Every single step of his career has been a fraud achieved with the help of sycophantic cheaters, from getting into Wharton to dodging Vietnam to building a sleazy leveraged real estate empire.

Trump may be profoundly stupid and lazy, but he does know just enough to keep his nose clean. Remember how Cohen said Trump always speaks in code when he wants something done? He leaves it up to the underlings to intrepret his vague orders and carry them out however expeditiously (and sleazily) they see fit.

Mueller may have found plenty of evidence of wrongdoing, but it’s possible that none of it rose to the level of evidence needed for his office to convict for collusion. Collusion is hard to prove, legally (it’s a higher bar than cooperation).

Still, something isn’t adding up here. Why all the plea deals and light sentences for lower level campaign figures, if nothing was there at the top? If the report exonerates Trump, why hasn’t it been released and blasted all over Fox News? I don’t trust Barr’s summary. He was hired specifically by Trump to make the investigation go away. He’s the guy who orchestrated the Iran-Contra pardons. He’s also a rabid religious right-wing dominionist, which means he’s all about covering up for rich white men at any cost, even if it means destroying the republic. We need to see the report before coming to conclusions.

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
1 year ago

Horse pee…

The blusterer-in-chief exonerated his self!

He’s been exonerated since he sad the “magic words”

NOCO LOOZHUN

Katamount
Katamount
1 year ago

I think the lessons here have been pretty well elucidated by Dave and the other commenters, but I think it’s worth underscoring a couple points:

1) Anybody who was pinning their hopes to Robert Mueller to the point of actively meme-ing him as if he was going to march into 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue and slap cuffs on Donald J. Trump really, really needs to learn a lesson from this (looking your way Wonkette). They should have learned it after the Plame Affair didn’t end with the same happening to Dubya, but twice should really hammer it home.

2) Russian collusion was clearly not the worst of Trump’s crimes and getting Trump personally on that would have been a long shot. Financial crimes will be his downfall, as his obvious history of ripping people off and miraculous bailouts just screams “money laundering,” and it’s a good bet that’s with the SDNY. Michael Cohen is just the beginning.

As WWTH points out, that wasn’t even Mueller’s mandate. It was always about obstruction, which is also more serious.

3) The report will come out in its entirety eventually (leaked or otherwise) and if the media has any integrity (or just basic street smarts), it’ll be front page news for weeks.

@rick

The Democratic Party has ideas coming out of its ears. Hardly any of them have been actually implemented due to Republican administrations and malfeasance, along with gullible centrists.

OT: Ended up watching a movie this weekend that was one of those ones I half-remember having on VHS when I was a kid: The Bounty (1984).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEaxoITrpWU

At the time, I found it kinda boring (as a lot of naval dramas tend to be), but re-watching it, I was honestly blown away but Vangelis’s score. Everyone knows Vangelis as the composer of the Chariots of Fire theme and I have his Blade Runner soundtrack on my iPod, but when I started up The Bounty and heard the opening thrum of synthesizers over a black screen, I was like “Did I put on the wrong movie?”, but then the rising sun over the silhouette of palm trees make their appearance and the foreboding whistle of pipes lend a menacing edge to the erstwhile tropical paradise as the credits start to roll in.

It was amusing to see the first screen appearances of Daniel Day-Lewis and Liam Neeson along with Anthony Hopkins in his element. Mel Gibson’s performance as Fletcher Christian was… okay. There were shades of Riggs when he flips out on Bligh during the mutiny, but little else was memorable.

Wouldn’t recommend it to everybody, but give the opening and closing themes a listen and try to picture it in a period naval drama. Every movie should have a synth score at this point.

Diego Duarte
Diego Duarte
1 year ago

This is some demoralizing bullshit.

I understand that this is just Barr’s summary of the report but it is still the first impression. They’ve already set the narrative, a narrative which even the liberal media will try to maintain whilst trying to play “neutral”, thinking that will win over what little moderates are left on the Right.

Meanwhile, progressives will have to fight an uphill battle if they want to elaborate on the report and call out the falsehoods, and risk looking “unhinged” and “hysterical”, which the Right is going to capitalize on in any way they can.

What is most troubling perhaps is Trump’s recent meeting with Bolsonaro. Both of them have already expressed their intent to invade Venezuela, albeit separately. However, now they’re together so we might soon see an invasion. And, although I’ve never been a fan of Chavez or Maduro, the fact is that Venezuela has the largest oil reserves in the World. Imagine what will happen to us if the US seizes control of said oil reserves and installs an aligned dictator there?

Not to mention conservatives throughout the region are also salivating at the prospects of Bolsonaro’s win to try to import that brand of conservatism and open Nazi ideology.

Argentina, Peru, Chile and Colombia are particularly susceptible now, given that the Alt Right has been openly pushing their ideology in all of the aforementioned.

I’m wondering if I should just fuck off to Uruguay, but I’m an attorney. It’s not like I can just use my degree anywhere else.

Button
Button
1 year ago

I want to reiterate Seth Abramson’s point that this isn’t even the conspiracy Mueller was originally supposed to be investigating. It wasn’t about the email hacks – it was about quid pro quo’ing the sanctions away after they helped him win. Coordinating the email hacks is the conspiracy Trump redirected to when called on the actual conspiracy.

Which implies one of two things. Either

A. Mueller spent his time and resources investigating the wrong conspiracy

or

B. Barr conspicuously omitted any mention of the quid pro quo conspiracy for some reason.

AsAboveSoBelow
AsAboveSoBelow
1 year ago

Katamount:

OT: Ended up watching a movie this weekend that was one of those ones I half-remember having on VHS when I was a kid: The Bounty (1984).

The part I remember best is Mauatua’s parting from her father. He bows his head and cries like a little boy. :'(

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
1 year ago

@Katamouny:

Crown: “Captain, would you point out on the map where you list your ship-”

Bligh: “I did NOT ‘lose’ my ship! It was TAKEN from me by Fletcher Christian!!”

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
1 year ago

@ Seraph4377:

4) white, middle-class male who wants the political system to focus on economic advantage for him, but recognizes that the Republican party is too corporate focused for his “jeans-n-t-shirt” lifestyle, and wants the Hubert Humphrey Democrats back

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
1 year ago

The immediately preceding Weird Eddie post timestamped 2:04 did not show up for me until 3:10. It showed up in “recent comments” sidebars on other pages earlier than that, but not by much, around 3:06.

This is ridiculous. It’s time to fix whatever happened EIGHT MONTHS AGO that caused these worsening delays and glitches. A post that bypassed moderation taking over an hour to show up is simply unacceptable, as is having different pages out of sync with each other by over six minutes.

Katamount
Katamount
1 year ago

@AsAboveSoBelow

The part I remember best is Mauatua’s parting from her father. He bows his head and cries like a little boy. :'(

That was just an outstanding scene. For me, that was when the emotional weight just falls right on King Tynah and the audience. After all, Fletcher Christian and the mutineers have effectively signed their own death warrants by commandeering the Bounty and returning for their loved ones, so there was no way Mauatua could refuse to go with them. King Tynah has just the length of the conversation to absorb that he’ll never see his daughter again. And we all feel it.

Cat Mara
Cat Mara
1 year ago

@Weird Eddie: Random bit of Bounty trivia: after his return to England, one of the jobs William Bligh did was carry out a survey of Dublin Bay and recommend the construction of the North Bull Wall to prevent the estuary from silting up as it was wont to do. Both it and the South Wall are still doing the job two hundred years later!

Bligh appears to have been an intelligent man, even enlightened by the brutal disciplinary standards of his day, but he seems not to have been a “people person”…

Moon_custafer
Moon_custafer
1 year ago

I think I once saw someone comment that if Bligh had captained the Titanic, the ship would have reach New York without incident, but all the passengers would have been tearing their hair out from having to listen to him drone on about breadfruit the entire way there.

Kevin
Kevin
1 year ago

I understand the charts made by Bligh whilst making passage to East Timor with the other loyalists (and nigh on starving to death) were considered so accurate that they were still in use in the 1940s. Definitely seems to have had a way of putting people’s backs up though, didn’t he get deposed from the governorship of New South Wales ?

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Authoritarianalways,

Sorry, can’t see your whole name on my phone.

But to your point, I give you Sarah Sanders basically threatening Trump’s critics with execution
https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1110240177643872256?s=19

And Trump sending a memo to the media ordering them to go after the congressional Democrats who are investigating him
https://twitter.com/jonathanvswan/status/1110254539163291648?s=19

I’m not sure if he’s acting like this because he now feels untouchable or because he’s still afraid of what is in that report that hasn’t been made public yet. Either way, he’s clearly escalating and it’s scary.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
1 year ago

Re: Bligh and the Bounty

The log of the journey is well worth a read; especially as it continues for the duration of the rowing boat journey.

But as to the Mutiny itself, a big problem was Bligh cared about the fitness of the crew, so he insisted they dance two hours a day. That was the drill at the time when mo
workload was slack. Naval rations amounted to 5,000 calories a day; so the Navy insisted the crew use them one way or another. But the crew especially resented this after their long skive in Tahiti.

So you had a resentful crew, who were then utilised by Christian who resented that working class Bligh wouldn’t defer to someone from the upper classes.
.
The Board of Enquiry proceedings go into a lot of detail; so they’re worth a read too.

Diego Duarte
Diego Duarte
1 year ago

@WWTH

I’m not sure if he’s acting like this because he now feels untouchable or because he’s still afraid of what is in that report that hasn’t been made public yet. Either way, he’s clearly escalating and it’s scary.

It’s a little bit of both I feel. Offense is the best defense, and he is clearly trying to use the report to his advantage. Trump always lies and his base is going to believe everything he says, whilst the liberal media will always try to be “impartial”, which means that they’re not going to outright discredit him. Which works beautifully for him, because that means that to actively pursue him is an uphill battle from here on out.

So what he’s doing is just saying the report clears him of wrongdoing and using that to attack the Democrats. If he crushes them before they turn around the narrative against Trump, then they pose no threat.

Right now the narrative is in his favor, so he needs to strike a deadly blow to the opposition. The deadlier the better for him. It just feels like he’s gonna go for an “all in”. What this “all in” entails, nobody knows yet but it’s not gonna be any good.

As “AuthoritarianismAlwaysRepeats” says, Trump is known to be vindictive. But he’s not just about pettiness, he’s also about escalation. He is the “I’m going to repay you a thousand fold” type of vindictive asshole.

Pelosi needs to step up her fucking game, because this right here could be fodder for another “burning of the Reichstag” incident. They need to make Mueller’s report public as soon as possible, because this shit is downright dangerous.

You don’t let authoritarians and dictators play their little game, because that’s how you start losing lives.

Zemyla
Zemyla
1 year ago

Trump did not collude with people who were explicitly part of Russia’s government. However, pretty much anyone with power, wealth, or influence in Russia is connected with the Russian government, like the inverse of how the Mafia had politicians that weren’t explicitly part of it but still did its bidding.

Honestly, if I had the ability, I’d drop a RICO on everyone implicated in the Mueller report and use its power, which is well-designed to take down people who would otherwise use their money and connections to evade normal prosecution.

occasional reader
occasional reader
1 year ago

As it is an open thread, may i ask if someone has read the book Broad Band, The Untold story of the women who made the Internet from Claire L. Evans ? And if yes, was it interesting ?

Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
1 year ago

Alan:

But as to the Mutiny itself, a big problem was Bligh cared about the fitness of the crew, so he insisted they dance two hours a day. … Naval rations amounted to 5,000 calories a day; so the Navy insisted the crew use them one way or another.

5,000 calories? I understand about half of that energy would be used in the work, and it’d require an athletic level workload. What do you normally do on a sail ship to consume 2,500 extra calories a day?

Also, who’d want to eat 18th century sailor food more than they absolutely need for survival? I doubt I could eat 5,000 calories of that stuff if I spent the whole day at it.

Sheila Crosby
1 year ago

I have a thought. You know how Trump supporters keep saying that he’s playing 4 dimensional chess? I think it’s possible that Mueller is. I wouldn’t bet the house on it, but he’s far more capable than Trump, obviously. He might possibly be giving Trump and Barr a chance to obstruct justice in a proveable way. Or maybe there’s another report to be delivered by another route.

On the other hand, he’s human so he must have blind spots (less than average, but some) and since he’s a republican, they’ll be some republican blind spots.

And of course it’s possible that Trump is a useful idiot, not a conspiritor, but that seems unlikely to me.

@Lumipuna I’m no expert, but sails had to be raised by hand and big sails are very heavy.

Katamount
Katamount
1 year ago

@Lumipuna

That’s actually correct. Typical rations were very high in calories, probably 4000 to 5000 a day. In addition to being under the sun quite a bit, able seamen were climbing up and down the lines on a fairly regular basis to adjust the sails (the only means of a ship actually moving anywhere in those days), or they were undergoing gunnery drills, which requiring repositioning a heavy cannon after every shot.

Needless to say, they burned plenty on a 12-hour shift. I can only imagine an old salt was in pretty good physical shape after years on the briny.

Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
1 year ago

Katamount – 4000 calories sounds much more believable. I’ve seen generally similar figures mentioned for people who did physical labor in historical settings.

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
1 year ago

Surviving in the Canadian winter outside, with collecting firewood and the like, suggests 5000 kcal per day to keep up. That is the conservation amount; no needless exertion, collecting deadfall instead of cutting down trees, sitting your butt down and resting whenever you aren’t doing something needed for survival. So yeah, I can absolutely believe that 5k/day is a reasonable amount for that sort of work.

Moon_custafer
Moon_custafer
1 year ago

Just going to point out that in the Minnesota Starvation Experiment, the participants’ intake in the six-month “starvation” portion of the study was approximately 1,560 calories per day, cut from an estimated average intake of 3,200 calories per day. These were young, fit men of military age, but during the course of the experiment they were attending classes at the University of Minnesota* which probably involves a lot less physical exertion than crewing an 18th-century sailing ship. 5,000/day doesn’t sound that unreasonable for the latter.

*I think they mostly ended up dropping courses during the starvation period, as they were too weak to focus.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

It’s interesting how that study caused men to act like stereotypical weight conscious women. They hoarded food and recipes, they had obsessive thoughts about food, they felt guilty when they ate. All this on a calorie intake less punishing than most of the fad diets marketed at women.

I’m with Naomi Wolf on this subject. Diet culture is absolutely not meant to make women healthier or more attractive. Its meant to keep women weak, distracted and pliable.

Sort of a tangent, but this is a sore spot with me.

Dalillama
Dalillama
1 year ago

re: Sailors’ caloric intake, the 18th century British Navy’s official rations called for 1 lb of biscuit, 2 lb of salt beef or 1 lb of bacon/fat pork or 1lb fish, or 1.5 lb mutton depending on day and availability (substituted with flour, currants and suet if meat is unavailable), plus one pint of peas or 2 oz butter and 4oz cheese, plus a gallon of beer, per sailor per day.

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
1 year ago

The mere thought of having to gag down a pint of peas makes me want to throw up …

let alone another one tomorrow, and then another one on Thursday, and on and on with no end in sight.

I think we’ve found an explanation for that mutiny. 🙂

Rhuu - apparently an illiterari
Rhuu - apparently an illiterari
1 year ago

Surplus – you are in a different time zone. Look at the time your comment posted . 2:14.

Re: the site needing to be fixed – can you do it? If not, can you pay for it?

If the answer to both of these is ‘no’, you need to let it go.

You’ve had it explained to you *multiple times* why this might be happening.

Just, please. Next time you want to let us all know that there is a problem, go and re-read the replies you already have gotten. Know that we know.

ETA – It is 7:02 here, comment says 6:02.

Dalillama
Dalillama
1 year ago

@Surplus

The mere thought of having to gag down a pint of peas makes me want to throw up …

If it makes you feel better, it would probably be mixed into a stew with salt beef or fish and some flour. OTOH, that’s a pint if dry peas, considerable more once cooked.

let alone another one tomorrow, and then another one on Thursday, and on and on with no end in sight.

Oh dear me no. If you had a pint of peas today you’d get butter and cheese with your biscuit tomorrow. Then another pint of peas. Oatmeal might be mixed with any of the above for bulk. Anyway, the gallon of beer to wash it down with helps. Or half a pint of arrack, rum, or brandy, if you’re lucky.

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
1 year ago

Anyway, the gallon of beer to wash it down with helps.

I expect so. I sure as hell wouldn’t eat those peas sober.

Kevin
Kevin
1 year ago

The peas might even have been presented as ‘pease,’ a dish similar in texture to hummus (and less likely to slop about on a rocking ship.)

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
1 year ago

They could be presented as popsicles and would still taste vile. Frankly I don’t know how the blasted things wound up being cultivated in the first place. I’d have thought any hunter-gatherer who chanced to nibble on one would have promptly spat it out and mentally put an “X” through that particular plant on his “could these be good to eat?” list. I can only assume a bad season and resulting famine was involved. And even then … why aren’t they classed with tree bark and bugs in the “survival food” category?

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
1 year ago

I don’t know if I could eat a pint of pease pudding or mushy peas; but I’d be more than willing to have a go! I love em.

And vegan protein supplements are pretty much just mashed up peas anyway.