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Christchurch mosque shootings: The Aftermath (Twitter roundup/open thread)

Flowers punned to the gate of one of the mosques targeted in yesterday’s shooting

By David Futrelle

From Twitter, some thoughts about the horrific tragedy yesterday in Christchurch — and just who is responsible for creating the toxic environment in which this sort of murderous right-wing Islamophobic extremism thrives.

At some point I hope to have regular posts up on this horrendous subject but right now I just can’t.


https://twitter.com/lyftrs/status/1106537721877663744
https://twitter.com/2damntrans/status/1106456770950676481
https://twitter.com/allymcleangames/status/1106446269252165632

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Moggie
Moggie
1 year ago

Very serious Internet person namechecked by the shooter: “LOL!”

Yes, this is definitely a suitable time for laughter and the “tears of joy” emoji. Good call, Candace, you evil fuck.

vaiyt
vaiyt
1 year ago

The “it’s just a joke” defense is nothing but a cover and has been used deliberately by neo-nazis to muddle the discussion.

You can never assume those shitheels are saying anything in good faith.

Bookworm in hijab
Bookworm in hijab
1 year ago

It’s been a day of a lot of texts, emails, instagrams flying back and forth between me and my friends, especially the Muslim ones. We’re all far from NZ, but all still reeling, as well as coping with the challenge of keeping it together in front of coworkers and, in many cases, our kids who are too young to hear about this. Like I posted on the other thread, I am completely exhausted — not just by the effort of getting through the day without dissolving, but also (mostly) by the mental strain of constant watchfulness, fear, worry; all of which have just been once again ratcheted up several notches.

But do you know, the main emotion coming out of all the conversations I’ve been having all day — always what we come back to, after we’ve cried and prayed — is one of utter fucking defiance.

These hate-filled evil people want us to not exist. Literally, if they can manage it; but at the very least they want us to be too scared to be in any way public about our faith. They cannot fucking stand it that the overwhelming majority of us get along perfectly well with our non-Muslim neighbours; they hate that actually we are full participants in our majority-non-Muslim societies while still being members of our faith. (I think that’s a big part of why they hate Ilhan Omar so much; she refuses to either repudiate her faith or her participation in US life and politics). They want to kill us, and if it can’t be a literal killing it will be an erasure through making us too scared to participate in our societies while being known as Muslim.

Well, fuck that. I am terrified. I am scared to go anywhere crowded right now; I am scared to be out in hijab or to go to the mosque. But you know what? I’m also even more committed to being a loud, proud, open-minded, diversity-loving, overtly-religious Muslimah. I’m even more committed to praying in public, to hanging out with my LGBTQ friends and non-Muslim friends, and to fighting for all our rights. Fuck this evil divisive racist misogynist us-vs-them culture-war oppressive CRAP.

Moggie
Moggie
1 year ago

@Bookworm in hijab, you should see this:

https://twitter.com/nemomcr/status/1106596603496943616

Bookworm in hijab
Bookworm in hijab
1 year ago

@Moggie,

Thank you for posting that, and thank him for doing that! This makes me cry, which I think I needed…

Visiting Kiwi
Visiting Kiwi
1 year ago

Hi, I’m from NZ (not Christchurch) and have been enjoying (?), well reading, WeHuntedTheMammoth for some time. Thanks for all you do, David. I think the mood here is devastated beyond words. Not that I think we were smug and naive necessarily, I think the majority of Kiwis know we’re by no means perfect, and we watched with horror things that happen overseas and been sad and felt for everyone affected when things like this happen. We also know that we have some horrendously hateful people here, just like everywhere else in the world. I think perhaps we had more faith, maybe, in our gun laws and hoped they were as good as we could get, acknowledging that people can get things illegally most of us would be shocked to discover even existed. More about what happened in that respect will no doubt come out in time. What has impressed me so far is how responsible most of our media has been, refusing to show any of the livestream video or report on most of the manifesto. Our PM has even asked Kiwis not to watch it or give the offenders and their views any ‘oxygen’. I visited here today specifically to see if David had posted anything. I knew that there would be horrific responses floating about from the usual suspects, but all this stuff so soon, supporting wholeheartedly the offenders’ thesis? Just makes me want to cry. Thanks for shining a light, David.

Bookworm in hijab
Bookworm in hijab
1 year ago

@ K.,

Hugs (if you would like them)! That’s a truly vile stunt they pulled.

Crip Dyke
Crip Dyke
1 year ago

I never know how to do these things right. I want to forge a connection so I say something about my experience, but too often that comes across as making a thread or conversation about me. If I don’t say anything to – at least attempt to – create a real connection, my words of sympathy always feel insubstantial, even fake.

I care about what you’re experiencing, Bookworm, Visiting Kiwi & all you others who are terrified and in mourning. I don’t know how to express that, exactly, but I’ll keep reading, keep listening, and if there’s something I can do from my little corner of the world, I will try to do it.

Bananananana dakry: Short-Haired, Fat, and Deranged
Bananananana dakry: Short-Haired, Fat, and Deranged
1 year ago

@Bookworm

You have a right to exist.
You have a right to be here.
You have a right to not be afraid.

They forfeited their rights to those same things once they advocated murder of anybody not like them.

ReductiveChaos
ReductiveChaos
1 year ago

@vaiyt:

The “it’s just a joke” defense is nothing but a cover and has been used deliberately by neo-nazis to muddle the discussion.

I think the best way to explain the “it’s just a joke” defence to people with little exposure to the cesspools that are Gamergate, 4chan (or, worse, 8chan), and similar is that the “joke” is that they like it when people are angry at them, not that they don’t believe in what they say or do.

And, yes, it isn’t really much of a joke. They’re awful, hateful people, not competent comedians.

Alexis Filth
1 year ago

Can we just agree that everyone who posts on 8chan needs to be on a terrorism watchlist at this point?
They’re all either pedophiles or wannabe terrorists.

Herbert West
Herbert West
1 year ago

8chan are the people 4chan didn’t want, just let that sink in.
I wonder how bad things will get, until it gets better again. I certainly hope we don’t need another world war.
Something distantly related:
in an article discussing the modus operandi of the mass murderer someone compared extreme rightwingers and islamist terorists in an opposing way. This is kinda ironic, since radical islamists ARE right-wingers. Their philosophy isn’t much different from the fascist one, or that of evangelical christians.
It’s possible that 9/11 and subsequent mass murders against western targets (in Spain and Great Britain, if you remember) might have robbed Al-Qiada and DAESH of valuable western allies. Certainly “white” and “aryan” are such worthless concepts, they are very malleable for fulfilling political needs and have always been, and one of the the biggest boogeymen for jihadists is still Israel.
At this point I’m just seeing baleful and macabre irony in all the shittyness of the world.
I don’t know if we, as a species, have any chance to survive the next century. I begin to doubt it. These mindsets will consume us all.

Weatherwax
Weatherwax
1 year ago

@Bookworm in hijab

Thank you for your post above. It’s powerful and inspirational.

Love to everyone here, love to my Muslim brothers & sisters around the world, love to my LGBTQ+ siblings and everyone else these miserable excuses for human beings think should hide under a stone, love to our cis het white male allies who join us in disgust of the hate-filled philosophy they espouse. We have learned that hiding ourselves away robs us of our most powerful tool, our voices. We won’t do it any more. We will listen to our friends, support them in their calls, and add our voices to the simple truth “we are human beings, this is our world to share, if you won’t share, you have no place with us”.

Gosh. I went to see Captain Marvel last night. It seems to have reignited my inner stroppy virago. She hadn’t gone far, but she’s back and ready to jump up & down.

Kevin
Kevin
1 year ago

In related news, Milo shot his mouth off about Christchurch and had his Australian visa cancelled as a result. That’s something.

opposablethumbs
opposablethumbs
1 year ago

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/15/what-does-christchurch-attack-tell-us-about-rightwing-extremism

At least some coverage is reaching for the point that there are no “lone wolves”; that terrorists like this are connected and share the same poison even if they don’t have organisational cells in the pre-internet sense (while far too much of the media coverage is aaall about painting the murderer as having this that or the other in his childhood, playing down his shared white supremacist ideology).

@Bookworm in hijab, thank you for that post. I don’t have the words, I just want to send love and respect.

Victorious Parasol
1 year ago

Also sending my love and respect to Bookworm in hijab and to everybody who feels afraid yet defiant in the aftermath of attacks like this.

Christina Nordlander, Emperor's White Knight
Christina Nordlander, Emperor's White Knight
1 year ago

@Bookworm in hijab: You should never be afraid of these idiots. Terrorists are cowards.

At least some news outlets are (rightly) calling this a terrorist attack in the headlines.

Talonknife
Talonknife
1 year ago

Does New Zealand have the death penalty? Normally I don’t support the use of the death penalty, but I have no qualms about mass murderers getting the needle.

Hambeast
Hambeast
1 year ago

I mourn with others around the world for these innocent people and their families. I will do what I can to fight this.

Love and hugs
Signatures on petitions
Letters to lawmakers
Feet at marches*
Funds to fighters*

*When I can. Husbeast’s mother moved in with us a couple of weeks ago and we’re strapped for time and money for the time being until she can get out of her apt. lease. MILbeast is also completely blind and can’t be left alone for long periods until she learns to navigate our house better.

Catalpa
Catalpa
1 year ago

I don’t have the words to express my grief and horror at this. All I can think about are the poor people who were killed in New Zealand, and the people who were killed in such a similar manner in Quebec City barely two years ago. About the broken families caused by this hate, and about all the people who are now afraid to live their lives and practice their faith. I want so desperately to protect the Muslim community, but I don’t know how. I do know I’ll have to do all that I can. We all will, to try to make our world less full of hate. 🙁

Tripoli
Tripoli
1 year ago

Apologies over the posts I made yesterday. I’d try to explain what I meant, but it’s bad form to derail an apology into excuses. The end result of what I said was the same.

Full Metal Ox
1 year ago

@K:

I’m inclined to agree with the Cleveland demonstraters that a wall is in order; how about something like this?

http://i2.wp.com/www.lifeinthecircus.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/angel-wings.jpg?resize%3D610%252C396

(Angel Action is an activist movement devoted to screening mourners of marginalized people from bigots’ displays of schadenfreude; they’ve frequently countered the Westboro Baptist Church.)

@Bookworm in hijab:

Would the above gesture be theologically okay? I do know angels are part of Islamic cosmogony.

Bookworm in hijab
Bookworm in hijab
1 year ago

@ Full Metal Ox,

Would the above gesture be theologically okay? I do know angels are part of Islamic cosmogony.

I think so, though I must admit I hadn’t heard of this group and if I saw them outside my mosque my first reaction would be to think they were extremist Christians!

@ Crip Dyke, I’ve been wanting to write back to you for a while and trying to find the right words. I’m just gonna say, I didn’t see ANY problems with ANY of your responses. I thought you were showing empathy, anger, sadness, solidarity…everything that we all need to see right now. Sometimes the perfect words are whatever words we say, as long as we’re saying something with love and support. *hugs*

Everyone on here, I have been coming back to reread this thread a lot. Your words make me feel stronger.

Cats In Shiny Hats
Cats In Shiny Hats
1 year ago

Thoughts and prayers to everyone affected by this. Not just the people shit, but the people afraid, the people mourning, the people outraged. Hopefully we can finally start making the unaware become aware of the dangers of right wing extremitism.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
1 year ago

@ bookworm in hijab

All I can offer is my love, my support, and my admiration for your, and your friends’, fortitude.

If you can think of any way I can turn that into something more practical, just let me know.

solecism
solecism
1 year ago

@Bookworm in hijab (and other Muslims sharing here)

Thank you for continuing to be in community with all of us. I (we) want you to be safe and feel strong and supported. I stand in solidarity with you and other targets of hate and terrorism.

And in general, I just want to apologize for my country’s export and modeling of the worst that humanity can be. It’s bad enough that the USA experiences this bullshit without addressing the root causes; it’s so much worse to see it leaking out into other countries like toxic sludge deliveries. This sucks. It’s not okay. We can do better.

Wannabikkit
Wannabikkit
1 year ago

@ Talonknife

No, New Zealand doesn’t have the death penalty. Last person executed here was in 1957.

Lainy
Lainy
1 year ago

@bookworm in a hajib

I hope your doing okay and that you and your family is safe. I’m so sorry that this has happened.

BlueNinja
BlueNinja
1 year ago

How do I slap terrorist murderer sympathizers through the computer…? I’m just so disappointed and sick of humankind and this deeply toxic bull**** today — always, but esp today given the crap I’ve been seeing posted online — as pushed so hard into the world by the far right. Esp the claims that this attack was paybacks and “there are no white terrorists.”

There is also absolutely NO reason any president of ours should EVER be mentioned by a person like that in some manifesto, and certainly not as an inspiration. This should be concerning to ALL Americans and make them think a bit harder about the crap going on in this country, let alone the world. Yet it won’t. Ugh.

Hard to see how this will ever improve if this poisonous mentality it just allowed to seep deeper and deeper into the world. 🙁

Bookworm in hijab
Bookworm in hijab
1 year ago

* hugs all*

We’re going to a vigil this weekend. Still wondering how I’m going to explain this to my kids (younger is too little to really get it; older one I’m worried about). There have been too many hard conversations about violence: Quebec, Orlando, Burma, now New Zealand…

The love and solidarity on here are so overwhelming. ❤💕

Michael Suttkus, II
Michael Suttkus, II
1 year ago

Who is the Wilders that Steve King is referring to?

Dalillama
Dalillama
1 year ago

Geert Wilders, Dutch islamophobic fascist leader.

Bookworm in hijab
Bookworm in hijab
1 year ago

A friend sent me this link today (about dealing with community trauma) and I thought I should post it here; please pass it along to anyone you think could need it:

https://www.muslimwellness.com/communitytrauma

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
1 year ago

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/16/media/jeanine-pirro-fox-news/index.html

Jeanine Pirro is apparently M.I.A. at Faux News… don’t know more than that, Faux brass isn’t saying anything.

If she’s gone, I’d suggest she was sacrificed after her Islamophobic rant about Omar. Sacrificed to take focus off Tucker Carlson’s islamophobia

Hippodameia
Hippodameia
1 year ago

Bookworm in hijab,

Absolutely. They will never make you afraid.

I’d like to second Alan in volunteering for anything practical. Just say the word.

Bookworm in hijab
Bookworm in hijab
1 year ago

@ Hippedameia and Alan,

I wish I knew what practical acts to suggest! I think you both, and all the folks on here, are already quite good at standing up to and speaking out against bigotry…

In the comments to a post by one of my favourite instagrammers (@yesimhotinthis), a lot of non-Muslim readers were saying they were going to go out of their way to directly tell the Muslims they encountered that they supported them. I know for me personally, one of the things I find hard is worrying that the people I encounter in my daily life (like service personnel, other shoppers,whoever) hold Islamophobic attitudes. It’s like the “Shrodiger’s Rapist” idea that hit home so much: until proven otherwise, every random person is a potential Islamophobe. I’ve been caught off guard so often when people I thought were accepting turned out to have all kinds of prejudice right below the surface (my RA at uni, for example, who had always been lovely to me, until the day she went on a lengthy Islamophobic rant while we were driving together…), so it’s hard to feel safe unless I KNOW the person’s attitudes.

I guess…just never feel nervous to tell Muslims that you’ve got our backs. I love it when some random non-Muslim says salaam aleikum to me; it honestly makes my day; it’s such a small but powerful thing. I guess that’s all I can think of, really. Others will have more & better ideas!

Chris Oakley
1 year ago

For anyone who’s interested in offering tangible support for the survivors, this link might be worth a glance to you:

Givealittle Fund For Christchurch Survivors

Alexis Filth
1 year ago

So this whole fight about Chelsea Clinton is really depressing to me.
It’s like:
1. She was invited to the vigil
2. She and Rep Omar have already talked and cleared things up between them.

But also
1. The young woman in the video has a right to Express her opinion on this without getting threats from Clinton fans

But also

Said young woman also seems to really like using anti gay slurs.

And

Kathy Griffin doesn’t need to be butting on on this.

The whole thing is fucking depressing and seems to be a way to deflect criticism from the actual white supremacists who are encouraging this sort of monstrous action and turn this into another endless internecine fight between the centrist and progressive wings of the left.
I dunno, it’s really depressing.

Bryce
Bryce
1 year ago

@ Talonknife

Like someone said, no. There’s no hate crime legislation and no grounds for capital punishment under the Terrorism Suppression Act. Life sentence with preventative detention is about it. It will cost the taxpayer roughly NZ$120k a year to keep this POS fed and in maximum security for the rest of his life.

Catalpa
Catalpa
1 year ago

@Bryce

If NZ wanted to enact a death sentence (and actually have a system in place which valued human rights over expediency), then the death sentence would likely cost an order of magnitude more than that. Estimates of the cost of the U.S. death penalty over life imprisonment generally peg the death penalty as costing approximately 18 times more than life imprisonment.

https://deathpenalty.org/facts/5-myths-death-penalty/

Contrapangloss
Contrapangloss
1 year ago

With everything else going on, I lack the energy to even even.

If any of you all need the stress relief and aren’t already burnt out to the point of just wanting to sleep ‘til September ends, we’ve got a necrotroll over on the cock carousel thread.

I just don’t have the energy.

Bakunin
Bakunin
1 year ago

@Alexis Filth
Unfortunately, the left (here used to include anyone left of the Republicans) is just as prone to hero worship as anyone else, we’re only human after all. Like, tankies are an actual thing. Add in the fact that apologies and explanations just can’t reach as many people as the original act, and the circular firing squad is ready.

I guess there’s an argument for holding your own to a higher standard; they’re the ones who’d listen after all, but there’s always gonna be someone who whines that they’re an ally and don’t deserve any criticism.

I’d put myself pretty well on Omar’s side, she has been censured for far less than most politicians ever said. But I try to stay a pragmatic lefty, if Clinton and Omar have discussed it to their satisfaction, fine. We can’t pillory everyone after all.

Rabid Rabbit
Rabid Rabbit
1 year ago

A very good column from Nesrine Malik about why she’s not going to be debating with Islamophobes any longer:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/18/christchurch-islamophobes-media-anti-muslim

And the shooter has fired his court-appointed lawyer, planning to represent himself. Which at least means there’s no chance of his getting off, if there ever was one. And the fired lawyer is making a very important point:

“What did seem apparent to me is he seemed quite clear and lucid, whereas this may seem like very irrational behaviour,” said Peters, who represented Tarrant during his first court appearance Saturday.

“He didn’t appear to me to be facing any challenges or mental impairment, other than holding fairly extreme views,” Peters told The New Zealand Herald, adding that the alleged gunman did not display regret.

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
1 year ago

(CNN)A manhunt is underway after a gunman opened fire inside a tram in the Dutch city of Utrecht, authorities have confirmed.

Firearm attack in Netherlands… I don’t know any more than what CNN has posted, but it sounds early on like “here we go again”

Moon_custafer
Moon_custafer
1 year ago

@Rabid Rabbit:

You really can hear the court-appointed lawyer sighing with relief at not having to defend this guy; or is it just my imagination?

Katamount
Katamount
1 year ago

@Contrapangloss

With everything else going on, I lack the energy to even even.

Yeah, me too. Went to High Park on the weekend, but Grenadier Pond was still frozen, so no duckies to feed. Got a nice tour of Colborne Lodge though.

Gonna cite that last tweet that David highlighted as particularly prescient. Because I remember my teenage self being the guy who went to SomethingAwful.com and Newgrounds.com looking for the edgiest stuff that you couldn’t see on sanitized TV or in film and thinking that it was refreshing to get stuff that just felt a little more raw, a little more real. But there was limited capacity for reinforcement; the information only flowed one way.

The tweet just before it actually hammers this point home rather well. Those days where the internet was just a fun little playground where you could say the occasional naughty thing or upload an edgy Flash cartoon to Newgrounds and it would be seen by a handful of bored teenagers or young adults are long gone. Now there’s literally hundreds if not thousands of outlets for the edgiest humour you want, and algorithms in place to suggest event edgier humour. Those were the days before social media made it possible to digitally confront real people in realtime. People are still playing with this rather potent tool as if it was a toy: wind up all the little people that flock to you and just let them go. Whoever gets in the way, it’s their fault.

I just had another obnoxious conversation with Brocialist Dan where he cited the conversation between Tim Pool, Joe Rogan, Jack Dorsey and another Twitter employee (I won’t link it, but it was covered quite well by Matt Binder on his podcast) where Pool tried to convince the audience that Twitter had it out for conservatives because they were banning harassers that were straight-up violating the terms of service agreement. Dan was like “ppl are getting banned for saying ‘Learn to Code!'” My response was “No, people are getting banned for spamming ‘Learn to Code’ in a harassing way, often combined with other more direct threats.” Because much like “It’s okay to be white,” the surrounding context was that it was coined by hideous people as a plausibly deniable method of signalling both your sympathies and opposition. Nobody just deploys them out of the blue, yet there’s still these gormless people like Joe Rogan and Brocialist Dan who take the most naive tack and ask “What’s so wrong with just tweeting ‘Learn to Code’ at a journalist?”

Dan actually elaborated without my prompting: he made it clear that he hated these journalists for having a “political agenda” when they should just be reporting about video game mechanics or “how good the game is.” (He used video games specifically).

But what’s really obnoxious is that people really do think they have a right to express their grievances without the need to care about the recipient. As if journalists, by virtue of being journalists, should be “tough enough” to handle a wave of Tim Pool devotees spamming “Learn to Code” intermixed with various threats and slurs. That’s just the market at work. Well no, it’s not, Dan. Systems can be weaponized so easily these days that with sufficient resources, whole organizations can be destroyed if a powerful person gets it in their head they want them gone. Just ask Gawker. And you don’t need to be Peter Thiel to cause some very real pain to an individual if you really want to. Given influence, you just wind people up and let them go.

And you’ve got stochastic terrorism.

Those are my thoughts with a couple days reflection. I’ll probably be doing some self-care for the time being.

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
1 year ago

<3 Bookworm. I'll say salaam to muslims I meet from now on. You're right, that does help, at least a little.

Fishy Goat
Fishy Goat
1 year ago

@Bookworm and any other Muslim readers: May you and yours get all the support you need – and then some. <3

Chris Oakley
1 year ago

Off-topic, I know, but there’s been a mass shooting in the Dutch city of Utrecht:

NY Daily News reports gunman killed three people and wounded five others on a Dutch tram

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