By David Futrelle
What better way to celebrate International Women’s Day than with a mansplaination of the menstrual cycle from a (presumably) young man on Tumblr who doesn’t seem to have ever seen a vagina in real life?
Although he assures us he has felt their pain.
Welllllllllllllll periods suck(trust me, I was emotionally close with a woman, in fact close enough to feel her goddamn periods. Fuck I fucking hated it, men, don’t get that attached. Be supportive, feed her ice cream and whatever else she asks for, but don’t get attached enough to feel them. It’s not worth it.
So far, so good: Don’t get yourself surgically attached to a woman so that you literally feel what she feels.
Anyway, I hate to be callous but that’s just your body telling you to hurry up and get pregnant.
Wait, what? Dude, cis girls typically get their first periods when they’re, like, 12, and can get them as young as 7 or 8. Their bodies aren’t telling them to “hurry up” and get pregnant.
Also, are you aware that pregnancy tends to be a lot more uncomfortable than having a period once a month? And that’s not even counting the nightmare that is childbirth. If pain and discomfort were a reliable guide to what your body does or does not “want,” wouldn’t the pain of pregnancy and childbirth be an indication that no one should ever have kids?
Of course birth control also makes them not as bad, depending on what kind.
Uh, some forms of birth control have an effect on, ah never mind. I doubt this guy could tell the difference between birth control and, oh, I don’t know, motor oil.
Of course you find out that there’s more kinds of birth control than there are types of oil, which is a pain.
WAIT WHAT
There are more period blood containment things(yes, tht includes tampons, pads, cups, etc.) than there are types of oil according to my dad who actually knows his shit about the oil,saying there’s like 4 types.(Yes, talking about motor oil here)
WHY ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT MOTOR OIL
WHERE AM I
WHAT IS GOING ON
So ladies, find what’s right for you. Ask a doctor. Test some different period things out. It’s for your own good
Definitely ask a doctor. Ask a friend. Ask Alexa. Ask random women on the street. Ask pretty much anyone but this dude. Or his dad, who will probably tell you to pour some Valvoline SynPower 0W-20 up in there, get everything running nice and smoothly.
In case you’re wondering, Mr. Motor Oil Menstruation Man doesn’t seem to be trolling, if his earnest responses to various, er, critics of his advice are any indication.
One anonymous commenter, for example, took offense at his notion that periods are basically just your body telling you to get pregnant.
Maybe don’t encourage minors to get pregnant cuz they have periods? Wtf is wrong with you I literally started my periods at like 11.
He responded:
Not encouraging it, I was half exhausted at the time but what I meant was it seems like your body is holding you hostage like, “hey bitch, I’mma do this again next month if you aren’t pregnant k bye” doesn’t it?
No, no it doesn’t, dude. Because in order to stave off your monthly periods you would have to remain more or less continuously pregnant or lactating from your first period until … menopause, which tends to hit around age 50. Unless you die before then from HAVING TWENTY BABIES.
Dudes, at least spend a minute or two thinking these things through before exposing your ass on the internet.
And please don’t ever offer your thoughts on the correct usage of “vagina” vs “vulva,” because we’ve already been through that. Twice.
H/T — This post has been making the rounds on Tumblr. I ran across it thanks to @babypizzagaga on Twitter, who is funny, and quite expert at finding this sort of thing, and who also has a very nice cat.
Gaslighting is an abuse tactic used to convince someone that their perceptions are faulty. It is a very specific tactic. Are you sure you’re using it correctly, here? If so, that’s a very serious allegation.
I responded to the substance of your statement by saying it made me uncomfortable and explaining why. Are you saying I am not allowed to address how your comments made me uncomfortable, only to address the general meaning you were trying to convey (which I inferred was, “guys like this are awful and I’d like to do awful things to them”)?
I did not call you stupid. I said your comment made me uncomfortable because it described doing violent things to another person to show them what periods feel like (or, in your words, “Dickwads like himself should be subjected to two years of simulated periods.”), but those violent things are not what periods feel like. (I was also uncomfortable with the doing violence part, for the record, I just wanted to address one issue at a time.)
I also did not call you a bad person. I tried to explain that intent isn’t magic, which is something we have to explain regularly on here, and we all had to have explained to us at some point, because that’s not something that’s generally taught in North American culture (not sure about your culture; I can only speak for my own).
What you’re doing right now is inferring a lot of information that frankly isn’t there in our statements and lashing out at us for things we never said nor implied. It sounds like you want to be an ally, so maybe this is a good time to ask yourself whether you’re ready to reflect on yourself and whether you want that because you feel like that’s what being good is and you want to be good, or whether it’s because you actually want to help people. Because what you’re doing right now is 100% not helping people who don’t enjoy your privileges (quite the opposite, actually).
I remember reading a theory that one of the reasons (some) early societies incorporated circumcision into male coming-of-age rituals was in emulation of menarche. A physical change, involving blood and pain, that marked an unmistakable transition from child to adult.
There’s a certain poetry to that, although I don’t feel a lack for not having experienced it myself.
@Hetneo
I recognized I had a problem, so I dealt with it. You’ve listened to us say that some of the things you’ve said make us uncomfortable, and your response is to refuse to consider you might have anything to learn.
And yeah, you’re not in my inner circle because I barely know you. I don’t really know who you are on the inside, so I have to go by the signifiers you give me. And frankly, telling me nature has an opinion on whether its good to be a woman and not to discuss my perspective on this topic is not a positive signal to me. Turnabout is fair play, but I haven’t even turned it around yet.
In my culture (Rural Eastern United States), we have a saying – “If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it’s probably a duck”. It is meant to say that sometimes things are as they seem. All of my references to ducks and quacking in conversation with you have been references to this particular idiom. I recognize that this context is not universal, and I apologize for the pain I’ve caused.
I did not call you a misogynist, but I did say in a roundabout way that your words are the words misogynists use. Sometimes, things are as they seem.
I’m not arguing. I’m telling you how I see it.
Do you think Kupo and I are the same person?
How dare you?
I was summarizing and reacting. This isn’t debate club, your oh so mighty highness.
How. Dare. You. I didn’t call you stupid or a bad person, I asked you to consider trans perspectives and stop repeating misogynist talking points if that is in fact something you aren’t. Then when you refused and basically told me to shut up, I pointed out how there wasn’t any distinction between what you were saying and what a misogynist would say.
I surely don’t need to point out to you that I quoted the entire section of your post I wanted to comment on, then broke it up so I could do so line by line. As I did here.
Hmm. Do I wanna be a little bit harsh?
Actually yes. I really really DO.
You’ve spent quite some time and energy trying to make me and rhuu and kupo responsible for everything you’re thinking and feeling right now, trying to hold us to answer for this community’s reaction to the things you’ve said, going so far as to invent from nothing things to accuse specifically me of. At what point do you accept ANY responsibility?
Turns out, you can’t just blame non-men for everything bad that happens ever.
@ Ariblester,
Thank you for pointing this out! I’m pretty sure I sidelined this, in my comment; I’ll keep it in mind for next time. One of the reasons I like this site is I always learn stuff and (hopefully) broaden my perspective.
Now back to reading…I kind of skimmed the comments since my last one. (Sometimes when there are a lot, and they’re so full of info, I have to reread a few times to really absorb them.)
@Rhuu
Thank you for backing me up. It means a lot to me.
@Bookworm in hijab
You’re very welcome.
@Hetneo
You’re right, I am indeed late to the conversation. Apologies for barging in, and I wish that our first interaction had been more pleasant.
I did not intend to pile on, and I apologize that I did so.
I apologize that my words implied that I had any right to control what you say or do. You are your own person and do not need my approval.
To clarify, I had indeed read your follow-up comments where you apologized for your mistakes in terminology (“the females”) and spelling (“mensuration”).
You alluded to holding some unorthodox views that you did not feel were appropriate to bring up in this thread. Fair enough.
You also made no apologies for wanting to be sadistic towards homophobes, transphobes and misogynists. Also fair. I wouldn’t, but you do you.
So please do not think that I was “too lazy” to read the entire thread.
I felt that you had not addressed some of the other arguments made for why the even the non-violent content (not only the phrasing) of your initial comment could be read as problematic.
Therefore I collected up those arguments in a single comment. It was as much intended for you as it was to any other lurkers (such as myself) who were following the conversation.
@Rhuu – apparently an illiterati
We are both very much aware that you do not really care that I accept that it was my fault that my attempted sarcasm failed. Nor that I’m aware of how it failed
You are erroneously presuming that I am looking for the validation from you. I’m too old and too tired of life to have such childish notions. I do not need someone to tell me that I’m a good boy. Especially not someone who is looking very much like manipulatively playing the role of the reasonable adult.
Please do go down that rabbit hole. Please do tell me that I am being unreasonable. Please do tell me that it didn’t take two ragging rants from me that you get anywhere near of what I did wrong.
@kupo
Thank you very much, I am very fucking much aware what that word means and what it is. What is evidence of it is the pattern of switching what parts of my comments you find offensive and what you find offensive in them, while not really getting to the point. Look at what you just did, the manner in which you have denied that you have made a comment you actually did. Go back to your first reply where you are saying that it is uncomfortable how wrong my understanding of menstruation is. You are basically telling me that I am so stupid that my stupidity is making you uncomfortable. The statement I tried to ignore and to deflect to another aspect of my original comment by admitting that aspect of my comment is my failure as a human being. That was the cause for three of you to pile up on me, because of you deciding to say that you are uncomfortable because of something else, and that else putting down to sound as if the problem is that I’m at all admitting my failure as a human being, and not the nature of my admitted failure. Even my attempted plea to @IgnoreSandra to not be blindsided into behaving as a bigger asshole, than I already have, before I’m made aware in which way I behaved like an asshole, my admitting that I’m aware that I hold opinions of which some I’m aware to be wrong per se and some other I’m not aware of being wrong @Rhuu used as a reason to quite insultingly tell me that I’m a good boy and you to ask me whether I want to be a good boy.
@IgnoreSandra
And you go on explaining that I have done wrong something I have already admitted that it is wrong, apologized for it when made aware, and stated that I understand why I did it and why it is wrong. One would think that being aware of what error they have made and why they did so constitute a lesson learned. But it looks like you are telling me it doesn’t.
Apology accepted, thank you.
How dare I, and why I do dare to ask all three of you whether you are aware of how it looks what you are doing you can read above.
Telling you to shut up? Actually, thank you for being a second person who actually got to the bloody point. I see what you are talking about. My apology for inadvertently telling you to shut up. I should have chosen my words more carefully when asking you for permission to not talk about you. And when I was trying to explain that I’m aware that I hold some opinions which are wrong, and that I’m certain that of some of my opinions I am not aware to be wrong and why I’m not aware of their erroneousness, and that I would like to avoid expressing them for the moment, I should have been aware that it could come across as telling you to shut up.
Blaming you? No, obviously I didn’t make myself clear enough. When I said that I have the propensity for violence toward certain types of miscreants and that I acknowledge it as my failure as a human being, all three of you accused me in a higher or lesser degree of expressing agreesson toward you. All three of you when I said that I acknowledge my failings told me that it is a wrong thing to do so. @Ariblester even took it a step further, and my statement of the cause of my acknowledged failures framed as advocating violence.
@Hetneo
I’m sorry that my pointing out your lack of knowledge about something has made you feel like garbage for not knowing a thing, but that is 100% on you and I will not take this abuse from you.
I’m not going to dignify your seething hatred for my expression of discomfort with any further response and if you continue to be hateful towards me for gently explaining how you’ve made me uncomfortable I will ask David to give you a little breather.
@Kupo & Rhuu
hugs
No one should say anything like that to either of you.
@Ariblester, Kupo, & Rhuu
Well, since we’re apparently in a conspiracy to make Hetneo look bad, anyone wanna chip in for the pizza? I have movies we can watch and wine that wasn’t being saved for anything. Also, whoever didn’t tell me we had this conspiracy ahead of time, great practical joke!
@Ignoresandra
Pizza sounds good what kind?
@Ooglyboggles
I’m kind of a decadent skank when it comes to pizza, so I was thinking four cheese and bacon with extra cheese in the crust, plus pepperoni, and garlic sauce to dip the crusts in.
And a side of garlic bread, ofc
That’s not true.
I acknowledged that you have expressed a desire to behave violently towards people whom you don’t agree with (in your own words, “homophobes, transphobes, xenophobes and similar miscreants”)
I explicitly said that I was making no value judgements of this desire:
I only pointed out that violent comments (such as your original comment) are against the comments policy:
And I did not say at all that you were expressing aggression towards against the commenters here.
Ooh, pizza! I’ll whip up a batch of my homemade dough and fire up the grill!
@IgnoreSandra
That is absolutely too rich and will turn my stomach into a furnace of pain. I love it. <3
@Kupo
Goddess yes! I know how to make garlic bread!
@Ooglyboggles
It’ll turn my mouth into a circus of brief stabbing pains too cause I am really not good at tolerating spices or any other taste extreme. But it’ll be worth it <3
After all, this is why we have mint ice cream with chocolate chips in it for afters, and red wine to wash it all down. I suggest Mad Max: Fury Road for our movie, maybe followed by The Last Jedi, and anything else that's pissed the internet misogynists off recently!
@IgnoreSandra
I’ll bring Spy and Lady Ghostbusters!
@Hetneo
Rereading my comments, I realized that I had maligned you when I said that
I was wrong, and I am sorry. You did indeed characterize that as a failing due to toxic masculinity, and I did not give that due credit.
I don’t mean to pile on as well, but this one I can’t quite let go.
To me it felt like I was made to take part in someone else’s fetish, and my skin is crawling.
I rarely comment and I don’t want to stir up extra drama, so I hope it’s not rude of me to chime in, it just had such an effect on me, and following the whole discussion felt rather similar.
I offer imaginary tea and cookies to everyone who felt uncomfortable as well. They’re not real, but just imagine how good they’d taste!
@hetneo: ???????
Holy shit, my dude. Is this how you take constructive criticism in real life as well?
I’m pretty sure people can read our interactions and see who is being the reasonable adults, and who flew into a rage.
Are you new in these types of spaces? Like, this feels like babbies first interaction, ngl.
Again, don’t think you are a troll. Just someone who is accustomed to being right and respected.
I notice you didn’t block quote any apologies you had made, and since you seem to mainly be (really) upset that we haven’t accepted it and moved on, like?
Anyway.
Actual Real Shit that i need to deal with is now going on in my life, and i have no more time for this 101 hand-holding interaction. I was trying to help you see where you had erred, in a space where you are new and i am not, because having more voices is a Good Thing.
I hope you cool the fuck down enough to re-read what was *actually* said, instead of this weird conversation that seems to be all of us laughing at you.
For the record, i don’t care if you’re a “good boy”. Why would i? I just want you to understand.
Count me in for the pizza, i would love to try this home made dough and garlic bites and cookies and whatever else was on offer!
With my IRL stuff, i’ll bring the gin.
@ Ariblester – it was a good, clear summary! Sorry that it seems to have blown up on you. :C
@Ariblester
Thank you for the apology.
No, I didn’t apologize just for the mistake in terminology. I have apologized for the whole first sentence of my original comment. I tried to admit that I’m fully aware that all three offensive things in that first part of my comment. And that I intentionally used offensive language to lambast the Vagina Oil Guy. And I tried to point out that I understand how and why my attempt at sarcasm failed and came across as offensive. I tried to do it without coming across as ‘splaining my self and being defensive.
That thing about mensuration was my weak attempt to start diffusing the situation by cracking a self-deprecating joke.
The discussion quickly evolved in the pattern which is way too familiar to me, and which I find very problematic. And when I pointed out this, explaining where and how I see this pattern and leaving it open that behaviour in such pattern most likely was accidental, I’m being called the abuser. Before that, you have stumbled in and brought the discussion back to the very beginning. Which is also part of the pattern I have experienced way too many times. Going round and round in circle. I’m not asking you for an apology, because I understand that you were not aware that you will stumble in this discussion in such way, but explaining why I lashed at you.
To rehash the main points of discussion from my point of view. The question was did I behave as the asshole and made an ass of myself? Yes, I did. Did I admit to being an asshole and tried to amend myself? Yes, I did admit it and did try to amend my self. Was I accused of not admitting to being an asshole and not trying to make amends? Yes, I was. Was I intentionally or unintentionally lead to making even bigger asshole? Yes, I was. Did I enthusiastically seize such opportunity? Yes, I jumped on it like a kid on a cherry tree. Did I admit that I’m might be getting something wrong? Yes, that’s why I said that we are discussing in the atmosphere of misunderstanding and not pointing a finger at someone, accepting that blame could be on me because if I was aware that I have misunderstood something then there wouldn’t be the misunderstanding (this mainly relates to whether some people have intended to behave towards me in a manner which I recognized as such). Was my admitting my flaws taken against me? Yes, it was. Am I aware that I’m at the moment behaving like an overly defensive self-absorbed ass? Yes, I am.
My main issue, personally, is not whether my apology is accepted, it’s what goes before it, admitting error. Three or four times I have admitted the same error. Not a single time was I told that my attempt was inadequate or incomplete, but I was repeatedly told that I didn’t even make an attempt at owning my errors. Even you are, in the above quote, implying that I’m not owning up the “way of nature saying…” part. Maybe the misunderstanding is that you all are telling me that I have used offensive language, while I’m trying to say that it is just a part of my error. That I have attempted to use offensive language, which I’m aware to be offensive, in a specific way that would convey an inoffensive message, that the onus is on me to make sure that my statement gets across as intented, and that I have failed in such attempt. Maybe the problem is that I’m too much trying to not be defensive by saying that my attempted sarcasm failed because I made certain assumptions. I don’t know.
But my questions stand, when will I be allowed to own up my errors and how can someone expect me to apologize for something I’m not allowed to admit? Because of everything else was the bullshit which inadvertently snowballed from there. I’m not asking for the apology for behaviour I find problematic because I hope it was accidental and unintended. I’m not asking for the apology for throwing at me certain vile insults, it was made out of ignorance for some of the peculiarities of my culture and I do not have right to demand that such things are known. What I’m asking is an opportunity to own up my errors.
Re: Pizza party
Thanks for the invite! Yeah, I’m up for some of that. I am only an online persona, though, so there’s every possibility that I stop existing once everyone logs off ?.
Speaking of periods, look at the comment posted by that über-creepy, testosterone defficient cuckgina @RobertBurrough9 telling some random twitter twatter that he wants to earn his redwings with her. He’s a Goddess-Worshiping Environmentalist with the hashtag #Gynarchy because in his extreme desperation, he thinks that being subservient to women will help him get laid…… ?
Well, I guess Nowhere pants has given up pretending not to be a troll.
@Nowherepants – Um…. Okay, so calling someone
is a little odd, let’s not equate high testosterone with manliness/success/not being a creep, maybe?
Re –
You don’t need to gender ‘cuck’ by combining it with… I’m going to guess vagina? If you’re using the addition of part of the word ‘vagina’ to make ‘cuck’ seem even less powerful… Um, why are we equating feminity to powerlessness?
is odd, and that account isn’t just a nobody account, I’ve definitely heard of them before. Also, ‘twat’ is slang for… omg is it for vulva (the whole external thing) or just vagina? I am not sure, and not going to search to find out! But it’s slang for that.
??? Like, he’s being a super creep, I agree whole heartedly. But this is the literal definition of what people claim any feminist ally is doing, by either being or defending feminism (and other interconnected social justice work). Maybe that isn’t the best look for us to use against some one?
I agree with you, don’t go into someone’s mentions and go “I’D SEX YOU UP”, especially when the tweet wasn’t about that at alllllllll. But this is an odd comment, and one that I ultimately decided to comment on. FOR BETTER OR WORSE, let’s see how this gooooooesssssss!!!!
If one is going to be a male feminist ally, perhaps one should focus on how one actually treats women IRL rather than virtual signaling on social media.
Now I know my words were extremely vulgar but I cannot help but feel such utter contempt for guys like this: they aren’t just creepy, they are weak and dumb. Perhaps public humiliation is the only way to teach guys like this a lesson. If he had any brains whatsoever, he’d delete his twitter account. Make an anonymous new one, and rethink his approach to life. I’m rather surprised that David Futrelle didn’t notice this one and blog about it(I found the tweet on a FB page mocking incels BTW).
Firstly:
To me, it was unclear when reading your first apology that when you said that your sarcasm came across in the wrong way, you were apologizing for the first sentence in your comment.
So I have to apologize for missing that point, and making you feel like I was bringing up an error that you had already addressed. I am sorry, and I will do better.
I also apologize for wrongly interpreting your comments about being socialized with toxic masculine attitudes as being a boast. I acknowledge that they were an admission of failings. My response made you feel like your failings were being used against you, and for that I am sorry, and I will do better.
Personally, when I apologize, I use a three-part structure:
1) I state specifically which action or statement I am apologizing for
2) I acknowledge how it made the other party or parties feel, or the impact or implications of the statement
3) I apologize for my statements or actions, and I promise to do better
I do not attempt to defend nor explain my actions or statements, or attempt to provide the wider context. The apology is not about me. It is about acknowledging the other person’s hurt.
—
That said, I really don’t know what to say to you about your feeling that you weren’t allowed to own up to your errors.
You said before that the other commenters should
Well, okay, let’s do that. I’ll point out your errors, and I’ll try not to be too judgemental about it.
I re-read your exchange with @kupo, and I see this happen:
– @kupo says that your comment’s suggestions of simulating menstruation in misogynists makes them uncomfortable, because of the misunderstanding of what menstruation is like
– You reply that you were trying to simulate the most extreme discomfort from menstruation as possible, as opposed to actually making a man menstruate. You also assume that @kupo is insulting your knowledge of biology.
– @kupo alludes to the fact that violent statements are against the comment policy, and that while your statements are well-intentioned, they can be read as problematic
– You ask @kupo for clarification as to what they mean
– @kupo clarifies by citing the comments policy regarding violent statements
– You accuse @kupo of shifting the goalposts from your knowledge of biology to being about using violent language, accuse @kupo of gaslighting, and accuse @kupo of arguing in bad faith and quote-mining
– @kupo clarifies that their point of contention has always been about the violent imagery, not of your knowledge of biology, because menstruation is not a violent act
– You forcefully reiterate your claim that they are trying to gaslight you, that they are shifting the goalposts, and continue to accuse them of insulting your intelligence
– @kupo states that they will not put up with your abuse
What can I say in this case? You were in the wrong. I’m not being judgemental. You’re not a bad person. You are not stupid. But you are definitely in the wrong.
Did you acknowledge that you were causing @kupo discomfort? No. You immediately assumed that they were attacking your intelligence. Instead of apologizing to @kupo, you defended your statement.
When you asked for clarification, and @kupo provided it, did you accept the clarification? No. You ignored it, accusing @kupo of attempting to gaslight you, of shifting the goalposts, and continued to behave as if they were attacking you.
You misunderstood @kupo’s original statement, and did not believe them when they tried to clarify, instead choosing to get angry at a perceived insult to your intelligence.
You accused @kupo of shifting the goalposts, when their argument did not actually change from beginning to end.
Where’s your admission of error here? Where was your request to have errors pointed out? At what point was @kupo supposed to “show some humility”?