By David Futrelle
If you’re wondering whether Godwin’s Law still has a role to play in a world that’s once again filled with actual Nazis, the answer is yes, because how else are we going to deal with the so-called involuntary celibates on the Incels.is forums who are currently comparing their lack of a sex life to the literal Holocaust, and concluding that what they’re dealing with is somehow worse.
A week ago, one regular Incels.is commenter called lifeisbullshit95 dropped this alleged truth bomb on his incel colleagues:
![[It's Over] Social media and dating apps have killed more men than both world war combined](https://i1.wp.com/www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Captureyg9hu08ji-.png?fit=600%2C384)
His message was somehow even more inflammatory than his headline, an all-caps wall-of-text rant, sans line breaks and even punctuation, declaring that all but the handsomest of men are suffering a “NEW HOLOCAUST” because of Facebook and Tinder.
“THIS IS THE NEW HOLOCAUST,” he began.
HITLER TARGETED THE JEWS TINDER AND SOCIAL MEDIA HAVE TARGETED SUB8 MEN WE’RE DYING A PAINFUL SEXLESS LIFE FULL OF SUFFERING AND DEPRESSION
Huh. Quick survey: Raise your hand if you’re a SUB8 MAN and you’ve had sex. Hell, raise your hand if you’re SUB8 and still alive, despite all the Holocausting from Tinder and Facebook.
Oh, but apparently you don’t have to be physically dead to count as a dude killed by social media.
HOW MANY LIFE TINDER,INSTAGRAM,FACEBOOK ECC HAVE CLAIMED YET? LIVING A SEXLESS LIFE ISN’T LIVING
Raise your hand if you’re not having sex at the moment but are somehow still living a life worth living.
ESPECIALLY AS MAN THEY DEFINITELY CLAIM MY LIFE AND THE SADDEST THING IS THAT NOBODY IS DOING ANYTHING WE’RE LEFT GETTING MURDERED
I can’t help but think of poor, rollerskating Terry on Reno 911.
Of course, Reno 911 was a comedy, and lifeisbullshit95, who has posted more than 700 decidedly non-humorous comments to Incels.is forums, isn’t kidding.
Like many incels lifeisbullshit95 is convinced that social media makes women too stuck up to even consider having sex with any but the most Chadly of men. This, as it turns out, is a widespread belief in the Manosphere, promoted by everyone from MRA douchebag Paul Elam to PUA douchebags like Roosh V to the denizens of MGTOWforums,,com. As these misogynistic men see it, women on dating sites and social media get so much flattery from thirsty men that they come to see themselves as better than the “looksmatched” men they should be dating. (Incels don’t really seem to understand how many of the “flattering” messages that women get online are literal dick pics or otherwise creepy as fuck.)
NOBODY FIGHT SOCIAL MEDIA AND THE DATING APPS THAT HAS GIVEN SO MUCH POWER TO WOMEN EVEN TALKING ABOUT THIS TOPIC IS TABOO
And so somehow we’re back in 1930s Germany, but this time women are Hitler.
HITLER CAME TO POWER BECAUSE THE GERMANS WERE AN- GRY AND WANTED A REVOLUTION WOMEN CAME TO POWER BECAUSE THEY FELT ANGRY ABOUT NOT HAVING EQUAL RIGHTS AND WANTED A REVOLUTION IT’S ALL SO SIMILAR
And now these Hitler-women are using dating apps to sex genocide all but the top 20% of men.
BOTH HITLER AND THE DATING APPS HAD AS A GOAL TO WEED OUT FROM EXISTANCE THE INFERIOR MEN
You may wonder how exactly not getting matches on Tinder is similar to being murdered in a death camp. Lifeisbullshit95 has this, er, answer:
WHAT’S THE DIFFERENCE? DYING IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER IS STILL DYING WE’RE THE VICTIMS OF THE NEW HOLOCAUST MY FRIENDS.
Okey dokey then.
You may wonder if any of the other incels stopped for a moment and told lifeisbullshit95 that he was completely full of shit. The answer, of course, is no.
“my face is rotting each day and female hypergamy is only getting potentialized with dating apps,” wrote someone calling himself JeffGoldblumInTheFly, and perhaps taking his handle a little too seriously, “its fucking over.”
“Dating apps and social media not only killed men but it make us suffer,” declared someone called Cuyen.
JeffGoldblum and Cuyen have, together, posted more than 20,000 messages on Incels.is, so I’m pretty sure they’re not drive-by trolls.
And even if JeffGoldblumInTheFly is joking about his face rotting away like, well, Jeff Goldblum’s face in “The Fly,” incels do believe that as each day passes they become ever less likely to ever validate their lives by having sex with a woman. More importantly, his comment here serves to offer its own sort of validation — of lifeisbullshit95’s hyperbolic, hateful rhetoric blaming women for essentially every problem in men’s lives.
Social media and dating apps don’t kill, but depression does, and sites like Incels.is add to the problem by steering young, desperate men away from real help and into a hateful, self-destructive fantasy world. That’s the real danger here.
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@Voxpoptart: “SOL” has definitely moved a lot of people. The person who recommended it to me made it his album of the year. And there is a lot on it that resonates personally; “Wildwood” is basically me as a young teenager reading books about “the supernatural” and wishing I could move matchsticks with my brain…
By bizarre coincidence, someone else mentioned Elizabeth Sandifer in a reply to me in another thread, this time about her comics criticism. I’m sure the synchronicity would appeal to her.
PS I’m actually a guy, though I chose this ‘nym to be gender-neutral so I’ve only myself to blame for the confusion ?
NowherePants,
No one accused you of advocating violence, but by trying to convince us that incels are not such bad guys, you sure are engaging in apologetics for it.
What exactly is your approved correct response to men who celebrate mass murders and want me to die just because I’m a “roastie?” Am I supposed to be just okay with it? Even knowing that the rhetoric in this subculture has actually spawned mass murderers?
I’m also curious if you think other targets of hate groups aren’t allowed to dislike the hate groups who target them? Or is it just women who are supposed to submit to hatred against them?
I’m also curious about what sexual revolution is supposed to have caused syphilis? Also curious about whether you think violence against women is a new thing caused by the recent one? Also wondering why you imagine anyone here expects men to have a partner? Several regulars here are single. I said myself on this very thread that I’m aromantic. Yeah, there’s pressure in our culture to be partnered. There’s always been pressure on women to be. You ever heard the word ‘spinster?’ It’s been around awhile, it’s always used in a derogatory way and yet, somehow, women haven’t gone on killing sprees over it. Incel isn’t even an equivalent term because that’s a subculture men choose to participate in. Pressure to be partnered is not an excuse for hate. If it was, the larger culture would be have to be more sympathetic to the strawfeminist who hates men because she’s too ugly to find one.
@Nowherepants
Maybe, just MAYBE (just hear me out on this) you need to learn how to better handle criticism. This applies to KiwiWriter as well.
Isn’t it funny how women are supposed to handle outright hate speech calmly and nicely, but it’s cool if men throw a fit about being criticized?
Tldr nowhere pants
#notallincels
@NowherePants
Okay, I fully recognize that this is a petty and irrelevant observation, but the idiom you were going for was “toe the line,” as in: stay within acceptable boundaries.
The idiom “tow the line” means to work in concert with a group towards a common goal.
Saying the sexual revolution caused the AIDS epidemic is, in my opinion, grossly irresponsible. Stigmatizing and moralizing about sex has only ever stood in the way of AIDS research and treatment.
@Viscaria:
Not to mention it centres the story on the affluent west, and erases the African experience of HIV/AIDS. I believe a majority of cases have occurred in countries which are relatively conservative, sexually speaking. When you hear the words “sexual revolution”, do you think of, say, Botswana?
@Nowherepants
You’re saying this as if people don’t try to avoid dog piles here. You’re also characterising the responses as ‘righteous indignation’, which implies that people are safe in ignoring them, because the responses are out of proportion or wrong.
No. As has been said upthread, women can usually tell the difference between ‘socially awkward’ and ‘entitled’ or ‘misogynistic’.
I’m going to relate a slogan that I’ve found myself returning to. It’s from the true crime podcast “My Favorite Murder”, and it goes like this:
“Fuck politeness.”
Do you know why this is such a powerful thing for people, mainly in historically disadvantaged groups? Because you need to be polite to the dominant group. (all following examples are about men and women’s relationships, but I believe this could go with any majority/minority group.)
That boy pulled on your hair? He just likes you. Don’t make a big deal about it, don’t cause a scene. Be polite.
That man is standing too close to you? He just doesn’t understand how his comparitively larger body makes you feel scared and trapped. Be nice to him. Be polite.
That man who asked you out? You’d better reject him softly, so that he doesn’t do something terrible. Be polite.
In all of these situations, there is that feeling in your gut when you are interacting with someone? LISTEN TO IT. FUCK POLITENESS. That is your instincts saying “something is wrong here”, and you should get out of that situation.
I’m going to put a [citation needed] here. What ‘conspiratorial worldview’? You are going to need to explain this.
This right here is basically “If only you weren’t so mean to me, and called me out when I was saying problematic things, I would be on your side! You are forcing me right!”
I mean, if you were hypothetically a Bernie or buster and then voted for Trump because people just weren’t nice enough to you…. Like…. my dude.
We will all make mistakes, we will all fuck up. We will all be told that when we said X, it was not the best thing to say. Or that the implication of our Z action is something not good.
We need to keep examining ourselves, and doing the work, so that we can hopefully be good allies when needed, and advocate for ourselves when needed.
I heard something the other day, about being kind to yourself when you make mistakes. I think that’s important, because we’re always going to make mistakes. We live in a sexist, racists, transphobic, homophobic, mysogonistic, abled, neurotypical, (etc) world. Those values are in us, and will pop up in unexpected places.
Accept that they are there. Know that, unless someone has gone out to find and shape yourself to these world views, it’s okay. We can change them. We can be better people today than yesterday.
If you don’t want to do the work, there isn’t anything keeping you here. *shrug*
What social awkward boys and men have done to me.
1. sat there in a room and awkwardly stared at me and I awkwardly stared back nodding as we tried to come up with something to say
2. while I was crying ask “I’m sorry…would you like a kit kat or mabe a tea, I have kit kats and tea. Sorry I don’t really know how to deal with a girl crying”
3.smile shyly and not able to meet my eyes when I told him I liked his glasses. then getting all mixed up in wards as he tried to hand me my change.
4. shyly and nervously complement my dress and when I cut all my hair off
Things entitled and misogynic men and boys have done to me while pretending to be social awkward.
1. follow me around a dance I went to by myself and wait outside the bathroom I was in for 15 minutes to ask me for the 5 time if I wanted to dance.
2. pressured me into said dance then held me uncomfortably close and putting his hands way to close to my ass and not letting me pull away.
3. get really offended when I explained ” yes I’m bisexual but I don’t date men right now”
4. hug me from behind and press his crotch against my ass.
5. follow me really close while I was walking down stares then reaching under my dress and grabbing all of my pussy. then doing like a credit card swipe across my crack of my ass.
6. walk in on me while I was getting out of the shower and stare at me.
7. say things to me like “I know you were rape but wanting to have an abortion after that rape is wrong”
8. hug me from behind while taking a group photo and grab both of my boobs and show his crotch against my ass.
9. tell me I shouldn’t wear dresses if I didn’t want all of that to happen to me.
Please get out of here with the bullshit of women hating social awkward men.
@ Lainy,
Holy shit, I’m so sorry to hear what you’ve been through. That fucking sucks; it’s also too damn common. I know it doesn’t really do any good, but hugs if you want them!
@ weirwoodtreehugger,
I think ^^this^^ is such a huge part of what Lainy was talking about with misogynists. We’re socialized to explain away all their awful behaviour as “awkwardness” (or, throwing ableism into the mix, as “autism”, wtf), and to stay polite at all times, even when all of our instincts are screaming. We know that we’re in a catch-22; if we criticize a man’s awful behaviour we’re told “he doesn’t understand social cues, he’s just awkward!” or we’re scolded, harassed, doxxed. But, if we don’t speak out, we’re blamed for whatever they do to us.
Fortunately, considerable progress has been made in treating AIDS and while there isn’t a cure for AIDS just yet, an HIV infection is no longer a death sentence the way it was 30 years ago. I would say that the explosion of awareness of the disease in the 1990s(around 30 years ago the death rates for AIDS began to soar and many famous people succumbed to it)really did help funding for AIDS R&D. As well as people realizing that it wasn’t just a disease among promiscuous people and sexual minorities. Now the “free love” movement occurred in the mid to late 60s, but a lot of the rapid spread of AIDS took place in the 70s and 80s. In the west it wasn’t just careless sex, but also heroin usage. So in the developed “1st world”, it was not just sex but drugs(heroin) that spread AIDS. In Africa? That’s another story so I won’t comment since I don’t know about what lead to the spread of AIDS there.
As for syphilis, well, this article suggests that the introduction of penicillin(which stopped the syphilis epidemic that began in the 1920s)may have contributed to the sexual revolution even moreso than contraceptives did.
Interesting that you didn’t clarify my [citation needed] request, Nowherepants. *shrug*
Also, while this is a video essay and I haven’t done a lot of research into the AIDS epidemic (this is a north american view, I very much don’t know anything outside of that and should really remedy that)
Even just watching the news pieces in this is powerful.
Pretending that the States didn’t put their hands over their ears and pretend this wasn’t ripping through a community because those who were sick were filthy homos is just wrong.
While AIDS was spread by other means than just in the LGBTQ+ community… To my knowlege, it was ignored PRECISELY because it had such a high incidence in that community.
Here’s another film, this one made for children around the world, about AIDS prevention. This is heavy stuff, CW for child sexual abuse.
https://www.nfb.ca/film/karate_kids/
There are also some f-bombs in there, FYI!
ETA: omg what
And another thing those who want to explain bad male behavior away as social awkwardness or autism never consider is the fact that some of the women being subjected to unwanted comments or touching are socially awkward or autism.
It’s always, always assumed that women all must be socially adept enough to let a man gently but firmly in the exact right way that will keep him from becoming abusive but won’t lead him on. A huge male privilege is that men are allowed to be socially awkward, to say the wrong thing, to be sympathized with when they come off badly. Women never have that luxury.
@ nowhere pants
So, you’re suggesting that syphillis was a consequence of a ‘sexual revolution’
But if anything, that article suggests the sexual revolution was a consequence of syphillis (or rather the availability of reliable syphillis treatment).
If you’ve found a way of reversing casualty then would you mind helping me with my time machine?
@ weirwoodtreehugger,
Mic. Drop. And applause.
The comments policy says ‘no dogpiling’ now, and i wasn’t talking about years ago, but rather the present. *shrug*
I’m glad you found a space to comment at.
Define “got so bad.” A lot of people got one or two requests to cut the abelist language that were free of name calling and weren’t nasty in tone, would double down, get a few more comments that were less polite, then have a meltdown and flounce.
The comment policy is there to keep people from doubling down on the issue. That’s why there’s fewer fights.
Every time someone comes in here with a complaint about how mean we are, no receipts are brought. But feel free to bring them if you’ve got them.
@nowherepants
Unless I’m missing something, none of this appears to be relevant to your claim that the AIDS epidemic resulted from the sexual revolution, nor my position that making that claim is irresponsible.
This all just seems to support my point?
Fair enough. I hope you read and understood Moggie’s comment about centering an affluent western AIDS narrative.
Honest question:
Does “fuck politeness” also apply in notionally ‘safe’ spaces, like this blog?
Related question:
Is the consensus position of the commenters, with respect to a person saying something problematic, to immediately put them down as if they were trolling?
As an example:
If they’re being toxic, does it matter if they’re a troll or not?
Also, the edit window closed before my comment showed up, but I should add that this blog is not a safe space.
@Ariblester:
You’ll find that at the top right of the page, under the mammoth, as the conclusion of the brief description of what this blog is.
You’d have to define “toxic” before I can answer that question. When does “problematic” cross over into “toxic”?
Fair points. My apologies.