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chad thundercock creepy cringe cuck cuckolding dude you've got no fucking idea what you're talking about empathy deficit entitled babies evil sex-having women evil sex-rejecting ladies foids friend zoning incels irony alert men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny reddit vaginas

“A hole, or the promise of one, is all a woman can offer,” declares man who inexplicably can’t get a date

A chad dog enjoying a hole

By David Futrelle

A polar vortex has descended across much of North America, meaning that many of the readers of this blog — and also me — have been feeling pretty chilly lately. So I thought I would brighten your day, and mine, by sharing some reflections on cross-gender friendships.

Oh sorry, I should add that these reflections all come from Reddit’s main incel subreddit, r/Braincels, so they may not actually brighten anyone’s day at all.

Here’s a dude who thinks all guys with female friends have some sort of cuckold fetish.

Here’s a guy who can’t tell the difference between a (cis) woman and a hole in the ground. (Well, a woman and a hole in a woman, anyway.)

No one tell this dude that men have holes, too.

Here’s a guy who says he doesn’t want any female friends because … Chad allegedly has sex with every woman he ever says “hi” to?

I don't want female friends (self.Braincels)

submitted 3 months ago * by Former-Incel-UserIt never even began

Female friends are for cucks, you think Chad has female friends? Hell, no. Because he fucks all of them.

You don't need female friends if you're an attractive guy, because you can just date them all instead of being some emotional tampon.

Fuck being an orbiter.

This guy reworks the famous line from “When Harry Met Sally” and manages to invent a brand new word in the process:

Handheld_Gaming 7 points 29 days ago* 
There is no male female relationship. Its always one or eventually both having Internations of fucking one another.

This dude, meanwhile, eschews female friends to protect himself from hearing endless talk about Chad’s sex life, somehow not realizing that anyone who hangs out on an incel forum hears more discussion of Chad’s (alleged) sex life than the friends of a woman simultaneously dating three guys literally named Chad.

dawoodmuslim 7 points 3 months ago* 
But females pretty much only talk about relationships, so if you have a female friend all she's ever going to talk about is how she's fucking this Chad or that Chad. With male friends, you can discuss philosophy, or hobbies, or something. With foids, all they know is sex, and the leadup to sex, and the aftermath of sex. So being friends with a foid is all about hearing how she's having sex with everyone but you, which is extremely low IQ.

And finally, there’s this guy, who warns his fellow incels that friendship with a woman is the equivalent of having a diet consisting of nothing but soy lattes:

ovrload 6 points 3 months ago* 
if you have female friends you become a meek feminine soyboy. if youre not fucking them, then women are a huge waste of time and energy. because they bring nothing to offer what a male friend can do 100x better other than her vagina.

Once again, I am stunned that these guys have trouble finding girlfriends.

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Full Metal Ox
2 years ago

Conversely, if “dick” is not only all you have to offer but a summary of your identity, there’s your problem.

Gender Superposition
Gender Superposition
2 years ago

The most disturbing part of this is the idea of an independent and his cis male friend discussing philosophy.

Can you imagine being a fly in the wall? Sounds like the most painful experience of all time.

Lainy
Lainy
2 years ago

I don’t think these guys have any friends, from any gender identities.

Susan
Susan
2 years ago

So I don’t care much for gender stereotypes but I do find that my friendships with guys are really different from friendships with other women. Those friendships have helped me experience a different way of relating, and have made me a better and more complete person.

tim gueguen
2 years ago

You may be right, Lainy. They obviously don’t have any female friends, and can they really trust that any guy is actually a friend? He may be Chad in disguise.

BigKitty
BigKitty
2 years ago

Here’s a Chinese T-shirt design that would be just perfect for these a-holes:

comment image

tohka
tohka
2 years ago

Incels having friends that discuss hobbies and philosophy doesn’t sound realistic though either. All they talk about is how women aren’t having sex with them but everyone else. But I guess that is their hobby

Also braincels is the new incel subreddit right? Has that been monitored at all? I’d assume reddit would have been more cautious to have anything related to incels on their site after the original one was gone

Bina
2 years ago

“Proud of being a cuck for a whore”?

Dude…do you even FRIEND, bro? I mean, WITH bros? Because if you do, are you a cuck for THEM, as well? Are they all gigolos because they have girlfriends, boyfriends, or just friend-friends, besides you? Because actually, being friends with a woman is no different from being friends with a man.

Unless, of course, you’re an incel, in which case any kind of relationship with any kind of person is a tangled mess of ass-pulled ideas impeding any kind of relationship at all.

Incel “logic” never ceases to befuddle me.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

You think Chad has female friends? Hell, no. Because he fucks all of them.

This is so not true. Every female attracted guy I’ve ever met that has a lot of partners does have lots of female friends. People tend to have sex with people that they find pleasant to be around. In general, people who are successful dating/sex wise tend to be personable and well liked, including well liked by people who just like them as friends.

I think the refusal to be friendly with women in a platonic way is the number one reason why some men have trouble finding girlfriends or sex partners. You meet a lot more potential partners if you hang out with groups of people that include the gender/s you’re attracted to. This seems just really obvious to me.

Pavlovs House
Pavlovs House
2 years ago

So, I guess *completely* out of the question would be, like, the concept of a man having women comrades-in-arms (I mean in the literal sense, as in men and women serving in the armed forces together in the same unit)….

hmmm….

I guess we here in Pavlov’s House live in another dimension or something? Like take the existence of Sister Pavlov for example. Sister Pavlov is not actually my biological sister but we served together many years ago and what started as a comrade-in-arms relationship became a very close friendship before we realized that basically the universe had essentially meant us to be brother and sister. Then when Ms. Pavlov’s House came along Sister Pavlov made Ms. Pavlov’s House her sister too.

So in incel-ese am I some specialized kind of cuck or something?

(And actually there are two Sisters Pavlov; the one above is younger Sister Pavlov. So with two man-woman friend relationships that became like family relationships it’s actually far worse. Am I man-ing wrong?)

Pavlovs House
Pavlovs House
2 years ago

@Susan

That’s really beautifully stated. Sometimes it’s just nice to reflect that all our friends in one way or another enrich our lives and be thankful.

Penny Psmith
Penny Psmith
2 years ago

On the silly side:

Reading this blog, and getting to know this incel (/other mysoginist) obsession with “Chad”, had led to the fact that, when I read a headline some time ago criticizing Netanyahu for being all chummy with Chad (which is… not a great place for democracy), my almost-immediate thought was “Oh sure, of course he’s hanging out with Chad!”.

I just wanted to share that.

Meteor
2 years ago

Internations?

Lukas Xavier
Lukas Xavier
2 years ago

But what if I just like hanging out with her? You know, because she’s my friend and I enjoy her company.

Honestly, if the only thing women brought to the table was sex, I actually would go my own way. Why bother, if that’s all I’m getting out of it? If all I wanted was a piece of meat to rub up against, I could handle that myself.

Dr. Thang
Dr. Thang
2 years ago

I love that “what can a female friend offer that a male friend can’t?” line, as if this guy has either. I’ll do you one better, what can a male friend offer that a female friend can’t? What exactly do you think friends do, incel boy? Exactly what skills and services do you demand of them? All incels do is unintentionally reveal how sad and empty their lives are and why they are solely to blame. More than anything though, I think this reveals that they realize they can’t make pathetic excuses like “bone structure” for why they can’t get female friends, like they do with girlfriends, so they project about how they don’t want them anyway. If I was a repulsive entitled cretin like them who scared off half of the population of the world from being potential friends, I also wouldn’t have any friends right now and I’d also still be a virgin.

TheKND
TheKND
2 years ago

I love being told what my female friends talk to me about by people who have yet to talk to a woman.

Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
2 years ago

If you have female friends you become a meek feminine soyboy.

Incels usually say that women are powerful pirahanas, taking what they like (and never wanting to take anything from incels, boo-hoo).

But this incel says that to be feminine is to be meek.

Which is it?

Oh wait, I’m asking incels to be consistent in their arguments. Not gonna happen, not ever.

Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
2 years ago

With male friends you can discuss philosophy, or hobbies, or something.

Something. I’m betting that’s what incels discuss. It’s not philosophy because their only philosophy is Women bad. It’s not hobbies because their only hobby is Women bad. So it’s something.

Uh-oh. I just realized that something is Women bad.

jone (social justice cleric)
jone (social justice cleric)
2 years ago

@Lainy

My thoughts exactly…

I don’t think these guys have any friends, from any gender identities.

And the self-enforced social isolation does not appear to be doing them any good at all.

@Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile:

From one ‘something’ to another, your comment made me smile.
Thank you, ambassador.
That will be all.

Knitting Cat Lady
Knitting Cat Lady
2 years ago

So, according to incels, a woman is just a blow up doll that can talk.

Yeah.

And incels talking about philosophy? You need education for that. And I’m pretty sure incels scoff at studying the humanities.

Lukas Xavier
Lukas Xavier
2 years ago

So, according to incels, a woman is just a blow up doll that can talk.

And the talking is considered a bug.

Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
2 years ago

@jone (social justice cleric)
Aww, thanks.

Cat Mara
Cat Mara
2 years ago

When I was growing up, “getting your hole” was common Dublin slang for hooking up (you can hear it being used in the 90s film The Snapper, if you’ve ever seen it)

I went to an all-male secondary school, studied in a traditionally male-dominated discipline at third level (electronic engineering), and work in an industry (IT) whose track record on diversity has become a worldwide scandal. Add to that the fact that I’m a rather introverted person anyway who doesn’t do well in social situations, is overweight and so self-conscious about it that I’m paranoid about looming over people or giving off a creepy vibe and, well, you get the picture: I don’t have very many RL women friends. But the ones I do have, I appreciate the more. I want to wish on these assholes the very worst, but I can’t really do better than the miserable path to which they’ve already committed themselves. Enjoy your journey, fucknuggets. 🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕

Gaebolga
Gaebolga
2 years ago

Knitting Cat Lady wrote:

And incels talking about philosophy? You need education for that. And I’m pretty sure incels scoff at studying the humanities.

Yeah, the whole “discussing philosophy” thing is almost always bullshit; whenever I hear some fuckstain mention that they like to talk about philosophy, I read it as intelligence signaling…which is something that people who are actually intelligent don’t usually do. Also, smart people tend to understand the difference between intelligence and education.

…folks with a philosophy degree are exempted from this description, of course.

Dalillama
Dalillama
2 years ago

folks with a philosophy degree are exempted from this description, of course

Not always, they aren’t. A not insignificant percentage got the degree solely in order to be even more insufferably pretentious.

Jane Done
Jane Done
2 years ago

How do these guys churn out this level of bullshit every day? Seriously, how can someone be so irreparably delusional that they can orally defecate like this on a daily basis and actually believe it? It’s like the most disgusting, dedicated fanfic club ever.

Katamount
Katamount
2 years ago

Ah, the classic When Harry Met Sally conundrum. I believe Nora Ephron settled that question with fake diner orgasms and baby fish mouth.

Dude…do you even FRIEND, bro? I mean, WITH bros?

Probably not. I mean, these Reddit assholes are so online all the time that they probably don’t have a soul that they actually talk about their actual feelings.

I mean, sheesh, even Spock had friends to share his feelings and he tried to purge them all.

comment image?w=840

SPOCK: I saw V’Ger’s planet, a planet populated by living machines. Unbelievable technology. V’Ger has knowledge that spans this universe. And, yet, with all this pure logic, V’Ger is barren, cold—no mystery, no beauty. I should have known.

KIRK: Known? Known what? Spock, what should you have known?

[Spock takes Kirk hand.]

SPOCK: This simple feeling is beyond V’Ger’s comprehension. No meaning, no hope, and—Jim—no answers. It’s asking questions. Is this all I am? Is there nothing more?

Even if somehow these clods do get together, I doubt they’re discussing Wittgenstein over a game of backgammon.

comment image

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
2 years ago

A not insignificant percentage got the degree solely in order to be even more insufferably pretentious.

I know some of those people.

Moggie
Moggie
2 years ago

With male friends you can discuss philosophy

Oh, don’t get me started! Sometimes, I’d just want to go to the pub with my mates and talk about the footie, but all they would rabbit on about was Gettier’s critique of “justified true belief”, or Hans Albert’s take on the Münchhausen trilemma. Fucking epistemologists! Or, after a tough week at work, I’d want to unwind with some mutual grumbling about our bosses, but they wouldn’t shut up about type-identity theory and p-zombies. We got barred from one pub after a fight kicked off between Team Wittgenstein and Team Kripke. This is why I no longer bother with male friends.

Cat Mara
Cat Mara
2 years ago

@Gaebolga:

Yeah, the whole “discussing philosophy” thing is almost always bullshit; whenever I hear some fuckstain mention that they like to talk about philosophy, I read it as intelligence signaling…

“Intelligence signal[l]ing” is a good way of putting it. I just finished watching The Good Place on Netflix. It was entertaining though like yourself I’d be doubtful if it will lead to a more nuanced discussion of ethics among the general public. After all, the “trolley problem” thought experiment in ethics (which is a major plot point in an episode of The Good Place) is quite well-known among the internet cognoscenti but is mostly used as the subject matter for dank memes than anything else.

@Jane Done:

How do these guys churn out this level of bullshit every day? Seriously, how can someone be so irreparably delusional that they can orally defecate like this on a daily basis and actually believe it? It’s like the most disgusting, dedicated fanfic club ever.

I know, right? Or, like, some kind of weird performance art where you have to construct improvised stream-of-consciousness bullshit on a topic assembled by pulling bits of paper out of a hat (guess which type 😈): “/u/mgtow4truth43569475, you have two minutes on the topic of, uh, (rustle) ‘that women are ‘ (rustle, rustle) ‘inhuman automata’ uh (rustle) ‘created by the Trilateral Commission to’ (rustle, rustle) ‘destroy Western notions of fairness with half price cocktail nights’! Go!” Except, you know, that might actually involve some kind of talent.

Cat Mara
Cat Mara
2 years ago

Oh, and just in case there are any manospherians hanging around with their “women don’t philosophy” horseshit: that trolley problem? 🖕🖕 Posited by a woman, y’all. 🖕🖕

Ariblester
Ariblester
2 years ago

@Cat Mara

I’ll do you one better in getting them to clear out:

Roko’s Basilisk.

That is all.

Cat Mara
Cat Mara
2 years ago

@Ariblester:

I’ll do you one better in getting them to clear out:

Roko’s Basilisk.

That is all.

🤣

Now now, the first rule of Basilisk Club Supah-Rational Thinky-Man STEMlord Club LessWrong is you don’t talk about Basilisk Club Supah-Rational Thinky-Man STEMlord Club LessWrong. But if you accept the Basilisk as your personal Omega Point, you will be eaten uploaded first!

Cat Mara
Cat Mara
2 years ago

@Katamount:

Even if somehow these clods do get together, I doubt they’re discussing Wittgenstein over a game of backgammon.

Meh, not even Wittgenstein discussed Wittgenstein over a game of backgammon– he’d start with a poker to the kisser and go from there… 🤣

Allandrel
Allandrel
2 years ago

Roko’s Basilisk has NEVER made any sense to me.

– Why would the hypothetical AI want to spend resources duplicating and torturing people? What is the benefit?

– How exactly is it creating mental duplicates of people long dead? It’s not like we’ll have our brain patterns on file.

– If the AI COULD make a perfect mental duplicate of me, contrary to the thought experimenter’s assertions, that duplicate IS NOT ME. It’s a person who, at the moment of their creation, is identical to what I was like at a certain point. The moment our experiences differ, we become different people.

– “This will affect your personal welfare” is a load of crap. Sure, I care about what happens to people in the future, but claiming that preventing the malevolent AI is in my own self-interest is bunk.

– Plus, the fact that the entire point of Roko’s Basilisk is to scare people into contributing to AI research. That’s petty and pathetic.

Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
2 years ago

You just know when manospherian dudes talk about “discussing philosophy”, they mean couching the Red Pill sentiment in vaguely academic word salad.

Shadowplay
2 years ago

@Allandrel

– How exactly is it creating mental duplicates of people long dead? It’s not like we’ll have our brain patterns on file.

– If the AI COULD make a perfect mental duplicate of me, contrary to the thought experimenter’s assertions, that duplicate IS NOT ME. It’s a person who, at the moment of their creation, is identical to what I was like at a certain point. The moment our experiences differ, we become different people.

First point negates second.
You are dead in the future. (The hypothesis does specify distant future)
Your duplicate is not dead.
The only one getting new experiences is your duplicate.

Therefore, for all intents and purposes there is still only one of you, which can be considered as you. Who’s going to argue?

Theory is still utter bullshit though.

Cat Mara
Cat Mara
2 years ago

@Allandrel:

Roko’s Basilisk has NEVER made any sense to me.

It only really makes sense if you accept LessWrong’s non-mainstream takes on utilitarianism and other philosophical concepts, hence the reason why the reaction to it outside of LessWrong has been less one of existential horror and more one of “lolwut?”

moregeekthan
moregeekthan
2 years ago

I like to ask the Basilisk people: what if this future AI prefers to be called a Manticore, and does not care who contributed to AI reasearch, but really bears a grudge against anyone who called it a Basilisk.

I always figured Roku’s Basilisk was just a dressed up version of, “Dude, what if I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream were real?”

Gaebolga
Gaebolga
2 years ago

@Allandrel

Yeah, Roko’s Basilisk is sort of like Discworld, only instead of turtles, it’s stupid all the way down.

@Cat Mara

I love your weird performance art!

Moon_custafer
Moon_custafer
2 years ago

I mean, I don’t dedicate my life to punishing anyone who thought my parents would make a good couple but didn’t actually set them up together on a date.

How does the AI even *know* who imagined the possibility of its existence? I guess if you believe the argument, the moral is really “don’t publish any articles about AI unless you’re also working on/funding one.”
Which would at least cut down on pretentious or sensationalized thinkpieces on the topic.

Cat Mara
Cat Mara
2 years ago

@Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape):

You just know when manospherian dudes talk about “discussing philosophy”, they mean couching the Red Pill sentiment in vaguely academic word salad.

… a large chunk of which will be made up of complaining about how much academic word salad there is in the world because of all the “Marxist post-modernism” (sic) going on, in the style of their pal and mentor, Judderin’ B. Properscam 🙄

Ariblester
Ariblester
2 years ago

@Cat Mara

That article you linked about MetaMed was quite the read; I dimly remember Yudkowsky’s news post on how they “cured” his sleep condition when I stumbled across HPMOR a few years ago.

(On the whole, HPMOR had mixed outcomes for me; on one hand, it led me to some Dark Enlightenment-adjacent places I now regret, but on the other hand, I liked Yudkowsky’s recommendation of the webfic “Worm”. I stopped reading HPMOR itself somewhere after it became crushingly obvious that it was never going to deliver on its original premise of explaining how magic works in the Potterverse).

Gaebolga
Gaebolga
2 years ago

moregeekthan wrote:

I always figured Roku’s Basilisk was just a dressed up version of, “Dude, what if I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream were real?”

…if you consider simulations to be real, which I guess Basilisk people do for some reason.

Shadowplay wrote:

Your duplicate is not dead.
The only one getting new experiences is your duplicate.

Therefore, for all intents and purposes there is still only one of you, which can be considered as you. Who’s going to argue?

Considered as you by people other than you; as far as the actual you is concerned, you’re still dead. Which is why using the thought of torturing a simulation of you as a threat against the actual you seems a bit…unpersuasive.

To me, anyway.

And that’s essentially the argument about transporters in Star Trek: once you get dematerialized in a transporter, you are dead and a perfect copy of you is now running around. Sure, your copy thinks everything is hunky-dory, and since you aren’t around anymore to contradict that assessment, that’s the consensus reality.

But the actual reality is that you had all your atoms ripped apart by a combination disintegration/scanner.

…I’ve always found the implications of that rather horrifying, putting me solidly in McCoy’s camp.

Phaos
Phaos
2 years ago

I mean past me keeps making really dumb and selfish choices and future me is a massive ingrate, so to me the failure of the Basilisk is that with respect to other me’s, I’m looking out for number one.

Cat Mara
Cat Mara
2 years ago

@Moon_custafer:

How does the AI even *know* who imagined the possibility of its existence?

Because Roko’s Basilisk is basically, “once upon a time, a tech-bro asked, ‘what if Pascal’s Wager, but on the blockchain?’ and a passing VC¹ gave him a tens of thousands of dollars because that’s what happens to white dudes in the Valley. The end.”

¹ The VC being Peter Thiel, who when not bankrupting websites out of spite, shilling for Donald Trump, running unethical medical trials, and owning a company that makes spyware for spooks and cops, is also backing a “science” “journal” that peddles climate science denial. Because of course he fucking is.

Crip Dyke
2 years ago

@Gaebolga & Cat Mara

“Intelligence signal[l]ing” is a good way of putting it.

Gee, that reminds me of a certain desperate someone I seem to recall throwing acronyms and latin around here recently.

Cat Mara
Cat Mara
2 years ago

@Ariblester:

That article you linked about MetaMed was quite the read

There’s worse than that; there is a whole Twitter thread of allegations about that Michael Vassar/ Arc guy who ran MetaMed being an abusive arsehole (needless to say, that link comes with a content warning in letters of fire, visible from space). It could be the type specimen for Toxic Masculinity, Entitled White Valley-Bro Subspecies.

(On the whole, HPMOR had mixed outcomes for me; on one hand, it led me to some Dark Enlightenment-adjacent places I now regret, but on the other hand, I liked Yudkowsky’s recommendation of the webfic “Worm”. I stopped reading HPMOR itself somewhere after it became crushingly obvious that it was never going to deliver on its original premise of explaining how magic works in the Potterverse).

Yes! Worm is awesome!

I never read HPMOR. Most people I know who’ve read it pretty much had the same experience as yourself; i.e., started it and lost interest. I know a lot of people found the way the character of Hermione was written in it particularly infuriating…

Allandrel
Allandrel
2 years ago

One of the parts of Roko’s Basilisk that really grates on me is “the AI is trying to protect it’s own existence: it creates and tortures simulations to persuade the original versions of those people in the past to contribute to its creation.”

THAT’S NOT HOW TIME WORKS. If I create a perfect simulation of Hitler’s mother and torture it, she will still have given birth to Hitler, and WWII will still have happened.

And the claim that “with a perfect digital simulation, it is impossible to determine who is the original and who is the simulation.”

In this scenario, one of “me” is a computer program, and the other is a pile of cremains in an urn. It’s trivially easy to determine which is the original.

Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
2 years ago

“Men only have female friends so they feel validated by the fact that a female can be comfortable in their presence” – I smell some sour grapes here.

I think this is mostly self-rationalization by asshole men who’d have a hard time earning any woman’s friendship (or love), who aren’t much into friendships generally, who mostly bond with others over misogyny and masculinity.

I can apparently make a positive presence to women – I’m just generally lazy at approaching people and maintaining friendships, and I find it difficult to relate to most other people. My two current friends are both women and former coworkers, who were initially more open towards me than the other way round. It is indeed somewhat validating to have women friends, as a socially awkward guy who hasn’t actually dated women but hopes to do so one day.