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double standard evil fat fatties

I’m now an official expert on women’s fashion

By David Futrelle

Last week, there was a little dustup on Twitter over one online clothing store’s rather limited selection of sizes, and their goofy names.

Rabbit Goh Co sells women’s clothing that is, in the words of one journalist, “understated, classically tailored and slightly twee.” Trouble is, they only sell clothes in three sizes, which for some reason they’ve decided to call “dainty,” “fair,” and “grand.” Making matters worse, the “grand” size isn’t very grand — it’s only a US size 6.

To be honest, I’m not exactly sure how grand or not grand that really is, given that I’m not actually an expert on women’s fashion at all. But according to legit fashion expert Cora Harrington, who got the controversy going with a tweet complaining about the “cutsey” names for the sizes, it’s not very. As an assortment of women on Twitter confirmed:

I'm size chonk
I guess my size would be oh lawd she comin

All this is covered in somewhat more detail in a post on the controversy on the entertainment/fashion site Her, from which I borrowed these tweets and the description of Rabbit Goh Co’s style I quoted above.

And, oh yeah, the reason for my headline? Well, the post on Her also quoted a tweet by noted fashionista me.

David Futrelle
@DavidFutrelle
Replying to @lingerie_addict
I'm a big fat dude but I am dainty as fuck, dammit

Now if you’ll excuse me I’m going to go drink some tea with my motherfucking pinky out.

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weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

There’s a Mean Girls gif for absolutely everything

comment image?fit=inside|900:auto&output-quality=90

Fishy Goat
Fishy Goat
1 year ago

@David: Something else to add to your CV! 😀

jone (social justice cleric)
jone (social justice cleric)
1 year ago

It must be all the clothes are Asian sizes.

When I was fat-ish, I really loved my body. But I could not buy anything on ebay, unless they had it in XXXL (Asian). I was about a US size 14-16.
I was the size of 3 large Asians in width. But I’m also way taller. Tall woman penalty. Apparently I’m at least an Asian and a half tall.
(Generalizing, obviously there are tall Asian folks).

While fat-ish, I loved that I could walk around anywhere, or go to the gym, and not literally be gawked at. I didn’t for once feel I was on display. It was so incredibly liberating.

But it turns out I have a thyroid disorder, so now I’m on the medicine I need to be alive and consequently lost weight, and once again I get the feeling that I have a sign on my back that says “RAPE ME!”
Such a delight.

I still cant wear Asian clothes, even though I’m the size of a large Asian now (with tall girl penalty). I’m about a US size 6. Which is GRAND apparently.

So very grand. Such grand to be had over here. Yay. Feel the grand.

Casta
Casta
1 year ago

jone – There are plenty of size 14 + women who have been raped. Suggesting that rape is somehow related to an individual’s body type, or clothing size is (to put it politely) uninformed.

Mabret (née Laugher at Bigots)
Mabret (née Laugher at Bigots)
1 year ago

One thing I’ve found out very quickly in looking for clothes is that women’s clothing size numbers mean almost nothing.

dustydeste
dustydeste
1 year ago

Umm, Jone, saying you’re “three Asians wide” and similar is pretty dehumanizing, maybe don’t do that, in addition to the WOWWWW a la Captain Awkward on the rape stuff.

Lkeke35
Lkeke35
1 year ago

One thing I’ve found about my own sizes is that based on where I buy my clothes, my sizes vary a great deal, which makes sizes utterly meaningless for me.

Since I’m proportionate to my weight, I look smaller than people think I weigh, and I don’t have much of a belly or butt, giving me an actual hourglass shape, which is impossible to buy clothing for, apparently. If I buy pants to fit my waist, my legs can’t get in them, and if I buy pants to fit my legs, then the waist is several inches too big. (In other words, wide legged pants, with an elastic waist, are my best friend! And they don’t match the size I wear in regular non stretch pants.)

All this to say, that that designers really don’t take into account the different sizes of women’s bodies and if you’re poor (as I was for a very long time) but you’re a woman with a lack of sewing skills, (fortunately I do), you can forget about having clothes that fit well. That right there is one of the many reasons people think fat people dress like slobs (outside of people just being jerks to fat people).

Podkayne Lives
Podkayne Lives
1 year ago

If you don’t carry anything above a six, you can call your sizes anything you want, as I won’t fit in ’em.

But even if I were thin enough for this sizing system, I think it would put me off. Too cutesy.

jone (social justice cleric)
jone (social justice cleric)
1 year ago

@Casta

jone – There are plenty of size 14 + women who have been raped. Suggesting that rape is somehow related to an individual’s body type, or clothing size is (to put it politely) uninformed.

Word, Agreed.
My intention was to point out that I get a lot more unwelcome attention at a size 6 than I did at a size 14. I feel far more threatened at a smaller size, and my feelings are backed up by the experience of being approached more often by men who don’t seem to realize I’d rather be left alone. Even if I try to politely dismiss them.
I can’t very well non-politely dismiss them, because you never know who could be a stalker or violent.
And the fact that I have to put up with that more often is awful. Nobody should ever have to put up with it, regardless of what they weigh.

@dustydeste

Umm, Jone, saying you’re “three Asians wide” and similar is pretty dehumanizing, maybe don’t do that, in addition to the WOWWWW a la Captain Awkward on the rape stuff.

My bad if I put it in a dehumanizing way.
I don’t think physical size is an indication of dominance or superiority, though that is the overwhelming opinion of the American public in general.
White people are in general taller and wider than people from Asian countries. And usually fatter, too.
I guess I could say we are all beautiful just like we are, but I don’t think it’s important to be beautiful.
What I noticed from travels to Japan, Thailand, Singapore, and Taiwan is that processed food is far more available in the West, and cheaper than healthy foods. It’s a big problem, but rather off topic for this post.

JS
JS
1 year ago

This is also a problem when buying men’s clothing from Asian suppliers. I’m a large in the US, but that’s frequently 2 or 3XL overseas. Slightly disappointing, there’s some really neat looking stuff from China that I’d never fit in (hats especially, I barely fit in extra large US ones).

dustydeste
dustydeste
1 year ago

@jone

It’s not about that kind of size=dominance association, it’s that you used “an Asian” as a unit of measurement. This is iffy on a couple levels, both in that it is using a type of person as a stand-in for an object and in that it reinforces the stereotype of Asian people as an homogeneous mass of identical, interchangeable individuals. Both the objectification and the implied overgeneralization are dehumanizing in this context.

serrana
serrana
1 year ago

The problem with women’s clothing is that most of it is made for imaginary women, instead of all the actual women who exist on this planet. And when designers make clothes for imaginary women, they make them for their ideal, so: tall, skinny, and young. Then they’re like, wait, hardly anyone wears these sizes and oh shit, we have to pay the bills. Quick! What weight/height/size is the average woman? Let’s extend our sizes to fit her. And if you’re just a tiny bit on the wrong size of average, you’re out of luck. You can go to a special department upstairs and around the corner and take your chances with a limited selection.

I’m 5’3″, so just a little bit shorter than average. Most of the clothing in stores is massively too long for me. You can hem pants legs and sleeves, but if the shoulder-to-waist or waist-to-crotch measurement is too long, the clothes are always going to look ill-fitting and frumpy. Luckily, I’m a size 12/large, so if the clothes don’t need to be tailored, I can wear regular sizes. But the average woman in the US is a size 14-16, and that’s about where the plus sizes start, where again, you deal with limited selections.

Further, women’s clothing isn’t made for stuff we need to deal with in real life. I was looking for a job a few years ago and got a second interview. I wanted to wear a different blouse, and my only other had a stain on it – there was not a single button-down, job-interview appropriate shirt available in the entire mall. It was July, and all the imaginary women were going to garden parties? Because there were tons of outfits for attending garden parties. I’ve never been to a garden party, and most certainly wouldn’t go to one in July in Houston. But I did have a job interview, dammit. Try finding something to wear to a funeral in the summer, or a wedding in the winter. It’s almost impossible, because it’s not what the imaginary women are doing.

I know men’s clothing choices aren’t perfect either, but at least they’re made for average sizes and expanded in both directions from there. Also, it seems like men’s clothing acknowledges that people do things in their clothes, and sometimes there’s weather and stuff. I shop for my husband and son’s clothes often, and it’s so much easier.

Thank you for reading to the end of my rant.

JS
JS
1 year ago

There was a study of clothing sizes from different brands, which found that each women’s brand had it’s own idea of how big a “size 4” person might be.

Found it, from 2003: Clothing and Textile Research Journal

Difference in waist measurement from smallest measured to largest was 8.5 inches for size 4 pants. Other sizes were only slightly better. Perhaps this issue has improved in the past 16 years?

Tosca, Chaos made Flesh, Servant of the Purring Jew
Tosca, Chaos made Flesh, Servant of the Purring Jew
1 year ago

As a professional dressmaker, one of my most profound memories was making a bridesmaid dress for a young woman. She was quite tall and built on Amazonian lines, with broad shoulders and an hourglass figure.

She was very miserable about the fitted bridesmaid dress. Because of her height and build, she could only wear Plus size clothing from shops and considered herself “fat” (she wasn’t fat). She habitually wore loose clothing to hide her body, and was convinced she was going to look awful in the fitted dress. “Like a pig stuffed into a sausage skin” was the phrase she used.

She put it on for the fitting, stepped in front of the mirror…and burst into tears. She had expected the only kind of “fitted” look she could get from ready-made clothing; at least a size too small, too short, and much too tight across the bust and shoulders. Instead, she was looking at a dress that didn’t cut in or bulge anywhere, and showed her figure off to perfection. She kept staring at reflection in disbelief, wiping away tears and saying “I look beautiful!” in a tone of wonder that broke my heart.

Fitting women can be complicated – when I custom make clothes, it’s standard to fuse 2-3 sizes at the cutting stage. I get that it’s not economically feasible for mass-produced clothing to cater to every size and shape. But fuck manufacturers who only make clothes for thin women of average height, and then say it’s your fault and make you feel bad about yourself when you can’t find anything to fit you.

Buy a sewing machine, hit up YouTube, and learn how to sew. Smash this particular patrio-capitalist dystopia with direct action.

K.
K.
1 year ago

At this point, I’m buying guys’ jeans and shorts just so I can have some damn pockets that actually hold stuff and I don’t feel like I’m sausage casing about to burst.

dashapants
dashapants
1 year ago

I was initially going to wade into jone’s comment, in a non-judgmental fashion, bringing my own eBay shopping experience with Asian-based sellers to bear on the topic, but this initiative was derailed by serrana’s introduction of “imaginary women” to the thread.

Because, omg, imaginary women! Like this totes should be a thing. A parallel universe should be running alongside this one, wherein these imaginary women dwell and attend garden parties at which they plot how best to be a nuisance to real women in this universe. Or possibly they don’t even realize the polluting effect their universe has on ours. There are so many possibilities for how the habits of these imaginary women can interfere with ordinary reality.

jone (social justice cleric)
jone (social justice cleric)
1 year ago

@dustydeste

It’s not about that kind of size=dominance association, it’s that you used “an Asian” as a unit of measurement. This is iffy on a couple levels, both in that it is using a type of person as a stand-in for an object and in that it reinforces the stereotype of Asian people as an homogeneous mass of identical, interchangeable individuals. Both the objectification and the implied overgeneralization are dehumanizing in this context.

I see what you mean. Apologies if I caused offense, and thanks for explaining.
It did not spring to the front of my mind, at any rate, that Asian people are seen as homogeneous, probably because of the personal experiences and relationships I have with people from various regions of Asia. Needless to say, they not homogeneous at all.
But if I wind my cultural awareness clock backwards and see through the eyes of someone with less knowledge about Asian peoples, your point becomes clear.

The stereotype I hear mostly white guys say around here is, “Asian people, they’re so humble/peaceful.”
It always pisses me off because I know it’s racist, but I can’t make them understand why… because in their mind it’s a positive thing to say.
Can you think of any quick ways I can make the point that it’s racist, even though it sounds deceptively positive?
(And I say quick because usually I only have a moment to speak before they interrupt me, loudly.)

I have consulted with the google already, to no avail.

epitome of incomprehensibility

Oooh yes, clothing sizes are completely irrational. Medium-sized people need to wear “large” and large people “plus size” (as if they’re some other brand of human).

Plus, there’s little internal consistency, especially with women’s clothes. I couldn’t fit into jeans at the store Garage – by the time I found a pair that wasn’t ridiculously tight on me, I was up to size 10 and they were way too long – but I’ve bought size 0 jeans from Old Navy.

And I’m one of the lucky ones for clothes – short but skinny, so clothes aren’t so hard to find.

@serrana – Is there something like Value Village/Savers* where you live? They have used clothes organized by type and size, sometimes even by colour, and when I look for something like “officey work shirt with collar and buttons” I can usually find it there.

*Confession: this is mostly where I shop for shirts and pants. Yes, I live in Montreal, and yes, I like the quirky little friperies, but sometimes I prefer to see ORGANIZED clothes, dammit.

iknklast
iknklast
1 year ago

’m 5’3″, so just a little bit shorter than average. Most of the clothing in stores is massively too long for me.

I’m 5’10” and have always had trouble getting pants long enough, especially since I am long in the legs. No matter what size a woman is, there will not be appropriate sized clothing for her, it seems.

When I was anorexic, I was extremely thin. I would still have not been able to shop at a clothing store that thought “grand” is a size 6. I am tall, and I have hips (like a lot of women; hips are a pretty standard issue body part). I also have a somewhat larger chest than the average, even when I weighed less than 100 lbs (quite low weight for my height and build). I still wore a 12, and I was not a size that most people would have called “grand”.

The entire women’s clothing industry appears to be in some sort of conspiracy to make women feel terrible about themselves, whether they are larger women, smaller women, or somewhere in between.

Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
1 year ago

@David F.

I’m now an official expert on women’s fashion

Congrats on your promotion from unofficial (presumably unpaid) expert on women’s fashion to official (most likely still unpaid) expert on women’s fashion!

jone (social justice cleric)
jone (social justice cleric)
1 year ago

@iknklast

I also have a somewhat larger chest than the average, even when I weighed less than 100 lbs (quite low weight for my height and build)

I’m surprised you could survive at 100 pounds. Glad, though, of course.

This is why we should never lie about our weight. 100 pounds on me is a step away from death, and I’m 5’9. I weigh 145.
If I take a step away from this computer now and die, that would be ironic.

Ooglyboggles
Ooglyboggles
1 year ago

Meanwhile I just keep wearing men’s clothing because it’s comfy and has lots of pockets. I even started using the back pockets of jeans. I regret doing that because the items tickle me.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
1 year ago

Women’s athletic clothing really irritates me. Flimsy see-through fabrics, spaghetti straps, pale colors, and teeny tiny sizes. Perfect for slightly built women who do yoga and jog along the beach at sunrise. Not so practical for basketball, tennis, inline skating, tall torsos, and muscular frames. It never seems to occur to clothing manufacturers that being fit, as a woman, doesn’t mean you’re size 0.

Meanwhile, men’s athletic clothing is tailored loosely, to accommodate biceps and movement. Men are allowed to take up space while exercising, but women are supposed to disappear.

YV
YV
1 year ago

They really seem to make clothes for only one type of woman; the tall, skinny supermodel type, who doesn’t have many curves. Never mind that those women are only a very small part of the population.
I usually have no trouble finding clothes that fit, but as a very skinny woman, who somehow still has a pretty large bust, finding clothing that flatters me can be hard. If it’s tight-fitting, it’ll almost always look inappropriate, if it’s loose-fitting it makes me look heavier than I am, because it just hangs straight down from the boobs, completely obscuring the fact that I have a waist. Luckily I have some amateur sewing skills that come in handy with this.

Knitting Cat Lady
Knitting Cat Lady
1 year ago

I mostly wear men’s clothing.

It’s cheaper, better made, and has fucking functional pockets!

I’m deathfat (thanks 20 years of undiagnosed Hashimoto’s!), have a very long torso (getting into the driver’s seat when my dad has been driving? someone please move the roof out of the way!), and proportionally short legs.

So I need plus and petite. And even then the pants legs are too fucking long.

This is why I love cargo pants. Those I wear have cords to tie up the bottom of the leg.

If only tailored clothing were affordable.

Catalpa
Catalpa
1 year ago

@Jone

A good rule of thumb for not dehumanizing folks is to not describe people using adjectives as nouns. So, don’t talk about “a female” or “a black” or “an asian”, etc.

Bakunin
Bakunin
1 year ago

Yeah, as someone who has ordered a few things from Asian clothing sites, the sizes sound right, though I haven’t seen a site that only had three options. I’m 5’8″, size 2-4, and I have to order large according to their charts.

I did hit a snag when looking for some Valentine’s gifts for my girlfriend. If something is categorised as “plus-size”, maybe go higher than a freaking 4X. And Wal-Mart just screwed around with their sizes, shrinking all the XLs by one. So the 5X t shirt she sent me for the other day day was too small. Thanks for rubbing that one in, jerks.

Bananananana dakry: Short-Haired, Fat, and Deranged
Bananananana dakry: Short-Haired, Fat, and Deranged
1 year ago

Fweaking hell, I feel this. I’m long-torsoed and short-limbed and five-three/ five-four and on top of this I’m somewhere in Megachonk stage these days. I remember vividly being in middle school, thirtysome years and hundredsomething pounds ago, and my mom having to hem every damned pair of jeans she got for me because the legs on the ones that actually fit my butt and waist were too damned long. *scream* Even then I knew that whatever clothing manufacturers figured an average teenaged girl was in configuration, it wasn’t me.

Let’s not even get into the fact that my short arms mean that non-petite stuff that fits my uh, generous bosomage has the sleeves dangle off halfway to Alpha Centauri, and most petite sizes with correct sleeve lengths tourniquet my torso and make things like bending, moving, and breathing non-starters. Plus sized petites? May as well be candy-farting unicorns. It’s stuff like this that makes me glad my job’s dress code is of the jeans and polos variety.

I’ve also worked in a department store in suits and in intimates, and the vanity sizing drives me nuts. Never mind that what one lingerie manufacturer considers a 36C bra has nothing in common with another manufacturer’s idea of a 36C, the fact clothing manufacturers think our egos are so fragile they have to BS to us about what size we are in order for us to buy their shit grinds my gears. The assumption of society that women are supposed to somehow contort our bodies into fitting clothing instead of the other way around says quite a lot about how it values women, or rather doesn’t.

Standardized sizing as with men’s clothing, decent quality long-wearing stuff, and pockets; why the hell is that too much to ask?

BradMoonRising
BradMoonRising
1 year ago

Last week, there was a little dustup on Twitter..

My dyslexic ass read that twice as “Last week, there was a little dubstep on Twitter…”

YV
YV
1 year ago

Women’s athletic clothing really irritates me. Flimsy see-through fabrics, spaghetti straps, pale colors, and teeny tiny sizes. Perfect for slightly built women who do yoga and jog along the beach at sunrise. Not so practical for basketball, tennis, inline skating, tall torsos, and muscular frames. 

This! So much! A few years ago I went looking for some shorts to wear for running, and all I could find were yoga pants! I’m sure some women prefer them, but I’d personally rather not go out and jog in something that gives me about the same coverage as a pair of tights. Eventually I just gave up and bought a pair of men’s basketball shorts.

Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
1 year ago

Joining in on the cry for decent POCKETS. We want pockets! And not those silly “decorative” pockets that are only good for hooking your thumbs in so you can strike a catalog model pose. Forget THAT.

I’m an hourglass with a magnificent rack. I’ve pretty much given up on wearing jeans, because if they fit in the waist, they don’t fit in the hips; if they fit in the hips, they don’t fit in the waist unless the waist has elastic somewhere or I cinch it with a belt. It’s easier to just buy elastic-waist pants (with pockets). Most of my long-sleeved shirts are actually three-quarter sleeves because that’s an easy way to manage the chest size I need vs the sleeve length.

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
1 year ago

Sounds like all designers of women’s clothing studied under the tutelage of Procrustes. :/

Rei Malebario
Rei Malebario
1 year ago

I needed to buy some running tights a while back and I was confused as to how I could tell the difference between the men’s models and the ladies’ models. I was informed that the ladies’ models had sizes in numbers that were objective measurements (waistline in cm) where the men’s models had sizes that were just arbitrary size codes: S, M, L, XL. I found myself wondering how the hell I was supposed to know what size any given running tights-maker thought I’d be (given I use underwear in anything from S to XL depending on the brand).

And now somebody has decided to use an even less practical sizing system for ladies’ clothes?

Can we please start just using numerical measurements for all clothes? I’ll not even bang on about metric vs imperial, if we do. If can just all agree on a fucking measurement system, I’ll be happy for it to be cubitsm hogsheads or fortnights or whatever else, as long as I can get some measuring tape with the units printed on it.

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
1 year ago

and in off-topic news….

https://splinternews.com/these-idiots-cant-even-do-a-coup-right-1832139578

THEY ARE SO STUPID!!!!

Newt
Newt
1 year ago

Can you think of any quick ways I can make the point that it’s racist, even though it sounds deceptively positive? […]

I have consulted with the google already, to no avail.

Did your search come across the term “benevolent racism” (or more generally, benevolent prejudice)? If not, that’d be a good place to start.

Cat Mara
Cat Mara
1 year ago

Some years ago, I worked for an ecommerce company that handled international fulfillment for big retail companies in the United States. Their elevator pitch to these retailers was that when an international customer clicked the “Buy” button on the company’s checkout page, they’d be redirected to the ecommerce company’s site (which would be styled to make the transition as seamless as possible), who would then handle all the sales taxes and tariffs and other minutiae that makes people who know the slightest thing about global logistics turn pale when they start thinking about Brexit, and the retailers themselves wouldn’t have to think about this stuff– they just collect their money, less the ecommerce company’s cut, of course.

Anyway, as part of this whole process, one of the things the retailers had to do was upload their inventory catalogues to the ecommerce company’s servers so their products could be assigned the correct tariff code¹ for the relevant market(s) they were being sold in. One of the more ambitious developers thought it might be useful to capture stuff like clothes sizes for clothing retailers. Hoo boy. That was a rabbit hole. You can see where it starts here. There are any number of national and international standards that have been revised over the years and none of which are paid the slightest attention by the various manufacturers– or if they have been, it is likely to have been to a version of the standard that’s now years or decades out of date. If any of these standards have any resemblance to a living human body, I’m sure it’s coincidental. I left the company for health reasons so I’m not sure if they persisted in trying to capture this information– I was pretty much of the opinion that it was futile and assumed too much of the retailers.

¹ Every good that can be traded between countries or trading blocs is described by a 6-digit Harmonized System (HS) code. You can find a list of them online; it’s huge. You will look at the list and wonder why in the name of God and the baby Jesus anyone would want to trade half the things on the list but there’s a code for them if they ever do. Everyone takes this basic system and adds their own digits to it, to identify stuff like country of origin (e.g., so they can set tariffs for favoured trading partners independent of everyone else). The EU’s version of the HS system is called TARIC; you can access it online here. One of the things that brings people like me who have had even this minor exposure to the global supply chain out in a cold sweat over Brexit is that the UK is going to have to build its own version of TARIC from scratch once it leaves the EU and, as far as I can tell, hasn’t done so yet. With two months to go. 😨

zesty
zesty
1 year ago

Funny, I don’t like pockets on clothes at all at all, except maybe on jackets. I don’t like to stuff things in my jeans. I’m also glad there are plenty of slim jeans available now made from elastic material that don’t lose their shape and start sagging down after you’ve worn them a few times.

ellesar
ellesar
1 year ago

Joining in on the cry for decent POCKETS. We want pockets! And not those silly “decorative” pockets that are only good for hooking your thumbs in so you can strike a catalog model pose. Forget THAT.

Women’s clothes will not have pockets because the handbag (American’s call them purses – yes?) industry loses their shit if there are actual functional pockets in women’s clothing.

Pie
Pie
1 year ago

I worked on a project a few years ago, that amongst other things tried to apply a veneer of consistency and sense to female clothing sizes. Just thinking back to it makes me angry; the whole business was just so stupid and awful. There’s bullshit like “vanity sizing” (because small numbers are desirable, but women tend a bit taller and boobier than they were 50 years ago) and asshole retailers who aren’t prepared to show how their clothes fit on average-sized models, because average-sized models are clearly too fat to be “on-brand”.

Turns out you need at least 4 size parameters (and ideally more like 6, but it becomes hard for customers to do the right kind of measurements…) to do a minimally good job of representing the size of american women. No-wonder a single size number is so useless for so many people, but no-one is going to manufacture and stock all those different variations because it would be too expensive. Maybe one day you’ll get on-demand robot tailoring or 3d printing, but until then everything will suck.

Also, regarding jeans… is it me, or do mens jeans get made out of more substantial fabric as well? Clearly women are too delicate to cope with nasty rough hard-wearing materials, and their delicate little lady legs can only survive flimsy garments that wear out quicker…

Brandy
Brandy
1 year ago

@Tosca

Buy a sewing machine, hit up YouTube, and learn how to sew. Smash this particular patrio-capitalist dystopia with direct action.

As an AMAB woman the problem is even more pronounced (and do not get me started on shoes). Is sewing really a skill that’s a few youtube videos away? I’m a smart gal, and have access to a good machine but I know literally nothing more than how to sew on a button. Is this truly a skill that can be self taught in this way?

I’ll be honest – the machine, with all of its settings and (apparent) complexity is quite intimidating.

Lakitha Tolbert
Lakitha Tolbert
1 year ago

BradMoonRising: Well, the thing is, Brad, you’re probably not at all wrong. There is most likely more than a little DUBSTEP on Twitter.

Lainy
Lainy
1 year ago

I’m 5″2 with an hourglass shape, a skinny waist but larger breast. clothes shopping is impossible for me because clothing companies don’t expect someone with my small of little waist to have as big as breast as I do. So everything I find is like putting my chest in a vice if I want it form fitting to my waist. If I get something lose it will feel like I’m wearing a sack. Pants are my mortal enemy. JCpenny stopped selling the shot bootcut jeans I always bought so I literally haven’t worn jeans in about 3 years because of it. I have found recent one pair that fit but then they to stopped selling my size.

my fiancé once got a real lesson in women’s clothing because he try to tell me he understood how hard finding clothes that fit were. He has a very board chest and shoulders but he’s not on the heavy side so finding shirts that look nice is a struggle for him but it is no way the same thing.

My best friend can’t even find jean shorts or jeans that work for her. She’s little but she has far thicker thighs then what jeans are made for, for her waist size. I tell her all the time they make the clothes for manikins and not actual women with bodies. You can be the super thin that the clothes say you should be and still have the hardest time finding clothes that fit properly.

YV
YV
1 year ago

@Brandy

Yes! It really is that easy! Figuring out a sewing machine can be intimidating, but honestly, as long as you can get a running stitch out of it, you’re good to go for most projects.

In sewing as in all crafts, there’s a sliding scale of difficulty. This depends on what you want to make, how “professional” you want your end result to look (by, for instance, adding a lining) and whether or not you want to buy patterns or draft them yourselves (I say, just buy them. They come with instructions.). But there’s such a wealth of information out there, nowadays, as well as tons of people on forums willing to help (or if you know any older women, they have a lot of knowledge, and are generally very excited to see someone from a younger generation picking up the craft). Becoming a self-taught seamstress has never been this easy. Just start with a nice, easy pattern, and work yourself up. You can learn as you go, you don’t have to know everything immediately. Circle skirts are a great beginner’s pattern. As the name suggests, they’re basically just a fabric circle with a hole cut out, making them the least intimidating project ever.

Of course, the more complicated garments will take some time and practice to get right, but don’t let that discourage you! Just think of it this way, just a generation ago, literally every woman knew how to sew from a pattern. If all of them could learn, why not you?

I’m sorry if I come across as a bit pushy, I just always get a little bit sad when people feel like a skill is so far out of their reach, they won’t even attempt it. A lot of people in my generation just don’t seem to have the confidence to even believe they could learn skills that only a few decades ago were commonplace. But they can! We all can.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Off topic, but if anyone wants to mock an incel, I’ve got a live one here and he’s a doozy. He’s got quite the plan to fight male celibacy.

https://twitter.com/weirwoodtreehug/status/1090229113636438016?s=19

Talonknife
Talonknife
1 year ago

I work in a secondhand clothing store (think similar to Goodwill) and I hate trying to deal with women’s clothes. T-shirts are usually alright since they come in the traditional S/M/L/XL, but trying to figure out what a number size equates to so I can shelve it in the right spot is a nightmare.

iknklast
iknklast
1 year ago

Joining in on the cry for decent POCKETS

I actually found a brand of women’s pants that have pockets, but I also found that very few places tell me whether the designs they are offering of that brand have pockets or not. I can get my pants only at J.C. Penney online, because they are the only place that tells me whether they have pockets.

Couple that with the fact that the last non-WalMart department store in our town just closed, and I struggle to find decent clothes, since I will not shop at WalMart. Of course, the last remaining department store (the one that just closed) did not sell any sizes large enough to fit most of the women in this town that are older than junior high age, I had moved my clothing shopping to online a long time ago…and garage sales.

The prejudice against any woman larger than a size 2 is worse than depressing. It borders on fatal. All women should be allowed to be whatever size works best for them. My husband, a large man (6’3″ and a little over his supposedly “ideal” weight) does not have the same problems. He can buy clothes to fit him in any department store he enters.

Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
1 year ago

@ellesar

I’ve heard handbags referred to as purses as well as pocketbooks, and that’s without getting into the more precise terminology like “clutch.” The differences can be regional as well as generational.

Fishy Goat
Fishy Goat
1 year ago

@WWTH OMG, what a maroon. *shakes head*

AsAboveSoBelow
AsAboveSoBelow
1 year ago

@Tosca:

Buy a sewing machine, hit up YouTube, and learn how to sew. Smash this particular patrio-capitalist dystopia with direct action.

THIS! So much this. I love making my own clothes. Go slowly, have patience with yourself, and measure carefully. It can be done!

@YV: With circle skirts, the hem is my least favorite part.