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open thread trump

Trump surrenders, Stone arrested: A rare slightly cheerful open thread

By David Futrelle

Today’s big news day began before sunrise, with FBI officers pounding on the door of Roger Stone’s home in Florida. And now Trump has surrendered on the shutdown, allowing the government to reopen, at least temporarily, without funding for the wall.

So it’s been a pretty good day, so far. Discuss. Or discuss anything else you want to discuss. No trolls, though.

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Matchstick
Matchstick
2 years ago

On this side of the Atlantic I don’t always pick up all the nuances of US Political events but the way it looks is that Peloski completely outplayed Trump not only painting this as Trump’s shutdown (with Trump’s active help to begin with) with the corresponding damage to Republican politicians but also kicking him squarely in the narcissism with the refusal to allow him the State of the Union address.

Is that fair assessment ?

And if so will this help energise the Dems by showing very clearly they can take the fight to Trump and win ?

Moggie
Moggie
2 years ago

Trump caved!

comment image

Of course, he has to save face by threatening a national emergency unless wall, but everyone sees that he’s lost this round, and he must be seething about that. Let’s hope he doesn’t lash out as a distraction (Venezuela?)

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
2 years ago

Nice tweet I’ve just seen.

“If Trump really wanted to see Hilary locked up, he should have hired her to work on his campaign”

Ichthyic
Ichthyic
2 years ago

How is Trump threatening shutdown over his personal peeves not extortion?

why has he not been charged with extortion?

I don’t get it.

Ichthyic
Ichthyic
2 years ago

the way it looks is that Peloski completely outplayed Trump

It’s Pelosi, but I far prefer Peloski, comrade.

Cyborgette
Cyborgette
2 years ago

Thanks @Alan, I needed that. It’s gotten to where any remotely positive political development shocks me to the core.

Matchstick
Matchstick
2 years ago

@Ichthyic my GRU handler is never going to let me live that one down !!! 🙂

Cyborgette
Cyborgette
2 years ago

@Ichthyic

Because Presidents are and always have been above the law. Trump is just the first one to really take that to its limit. (Which is saying something TBH, considering past abuses.)

Gods damn this country, for year after year giving one man the power to murder the entire world at the push of a button, and believing it was necessary and no bad would come of it. Gods damn us.

Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
2 years ago

And now Ann Coulter is sneering at Trump, and there are rumors she wants to be his primary challenger in 2020.

I’d love to know what Pelosi’s next move is, but for now I’m content to know that there won’t be a SOTU speech until the funding is permanent.

littlem
littlem
2 years ago

My mama said when she saw him in that polo and jeans instead of his usual dandified insanity

“No Atmosphere”

https://twitter.com/AndrewGillum/status/1088883158043578369

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

It was such a beautiful way to wake up this morning. I sorely missed indictment Fridays. Lets hope they keep it up! Looking at you Don Jr.

Ooglyboggles
Ooglyboggles
2 years ago

Yay I read it in other sites and I am pleased. It is a good day indeed. Trump folded like an omelet.

Rabid Rabbit
Rabid Rabbit
2 years ago

I know the man worships Nixon to a ridiculous degree, but why on earth did he think that giving the Nixon salute (two raised V-for-victory signs) was a good idea?

Blutarsky
Blutarsky
2 years ago

More about Trump and his posse, less about incel losers and other misogynists.

Michael Suttkus, II
Michael Suttkus, II
2 years ago

It is the opinion of the US Justice Department that a sitting president cannot be indicted, only impeached. I, personally, do not consider this a correct reading of the Constitution, but I’m not a Constitutional law expert and my opinion is irrelevant anyway. What’s important is that Mueller is operating under Justice Department guidelines, so he is not seeking any indictment against Trump. He will present a report to Congress who will act (or not) on impeachment, possibly after indicting every other single person Trump has ever had dealings with.

dashapants
dashapants
2 years ago

@Victorious Parasol

Eh, the way I see it, we don’t need a SOTU address. Everyone can pretty much tell that the union is royally fucked atm. Maybe we should have a SOD (state of discord) address instead.

Rabid Rabbit
Rabid Rabbit
2 years ago

@Michael Suttkus, II

Not any sort of legal expert, but can’t Mueller also leave some sealed indictments around to be opened one minute after the next president is sworn in, and have the blowhard arrested as he leaves that ceremony (assuming he even goes to it, if it comes after he gets his ass whoops in the next election)?

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
2 years ago

@ rabid rabbit

Me neither, but I had occasion to read up on this. There’s no limit on how long an indictment can remain sealed before arraignment. Also, with regards to any statute of limitation issues, the clock stops running the moment the indictment is returned by the grand jury, regardless of when the actual trial takes place.

Rabid Rabbit
Rabid Rabbit
2 years ago

@Alan:

Another of my pipe dreams. “Mr. Trump, thank you for attending. By the way, I believe the director of the FBI would like to have a word.” “Ah, Mr. Trump. I don’t think an FBI director in service has done this since Hoover went after Dillinger, but I didn’t want to deprive myself. So anyway, though I know you don’t understand this concept, you have the right to remain silent…”

Then they take away his cellphone, and he implodes at not being able to get on Twitter.

Full Metal Ox
2 years ago

So does anyone here know whether impeachment and the 25th Amendment can both be deployed, or does the latter imply mental incompetence to stand trial?

Sheila Crosby
2 years ago

I am not a lawyer. But I have seen the opinion that the “can’t indicte a sitting president” thing was a departmental policy created when there was widespread discussion about indicting Bill Clinton for lying about Monica Lewinsky. And that said policy might need updating if the charge were “working for Putin” rather than “lying about one’s sex life.”

As i say, I am not a laywer, but it sounds plausible and therefore slightly hopeful.

Moggie
Moggie
2 years ago

I don’t like systems of government which concentrate so much power in one person’s hands. If the president can unilaterally shut down the government, and they’re above the law, that’s already too much, even without considering the nuclear launch protocols. I think this is a system which needs radical change, but I suppose there’s little chance of that.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

I think the logic is that it would be too disruptive for the country to have a sitting president going through the criminal justice system, that they would be unable to do the job. For a normal presidency, this might be a solid policy. As we saw during the Clinton and Obama presidencies, the right will do absolutely anything, no matter how unethical to disrupt a Democratic administration. But Trump’s presence in the White House is more disruptive to the nation that prosecuting, jailing him, and removing from office would be. It’s a policy, not a law, and I wish Mueller hadn’t just automatically taken indictment off the table.

brian
brian
2 years ago

this is good news for sure, but until Mueller indicts Kushner I’ll remain unconvinced of the investigation’s efficacy.

Ariblester
Ariblester
2 years ago

@Moggie

If the president can unilaterally shut down the government

They can’t. Only Congress can shut the government down, by not approving budgets. The President can exercise his veto and refuse to sign a bill into law, but Presidential vetoes can be overridden by a two-thirds vote in Congress.

Trump could only shut the government down because Congress was deadlocked on the budget, because the Republican Party wanted to support one of their own (i.e. Trump himself), and because neither party had the two-thirds majority required to override Trump’s inevitable veto of any wall-less budget (well, until he caved, anyway).

And herein lies the problem: separation of powers is pointless when party politics is the overriding factor for decision-making in government.

Ariblester
Ariblester
2 years ago

Btw, if anyone is interested, Laws and Sausages, written by SMBC’s Zach Weinersmith and his pol-sci professor brother Greg Weiner, is IMO a good resource for introducing people to the USA’s system of government (speaking as a non-American).

Of course, its main message is that the system as designed is pretty solid, which many may disagree with.

Hippodameia
Hippodameia
2 years ago

Trump folded like a kleenex umbrella. Pelosi slapped him like a pancake.

Since the rethugs rammed through their stupid tax code fuckery I’ve been dreading the start of tax season – I’m really worried that a lot of people are going to end up underwithheld for 2018. I got my first frantic tax call yesterday. I don’t know all the details and there could be many other issues at play, but if this is a sign of things to come a lot of people are going to be seriously fucked.

Moggie
Moggie
2 years ago

Stone’s lawyer has a vanity-published political thriller, and someone has tweeted some of it – hilariously:

https://twitter.com/erinscafe/status/1088958995677638656

Moon Custafer
Moon Custafer
2 years ago

It’s taken me a day to actually look at any pictures of Stone, so I’ve only just realized he’s the guy Stephen Colbert described in a monologue last month as “man screaming ‘You’ll never catch me, Batman!’”

Lunzie Mespil
Lunzie Mespil
2 years ago

Can a sitting vice president be indicted? What about senators and representatives?

My dream is that Mueller indicts a bunch of Trump enablers, including Pence. Then impeach the orange asshole and inaugurate President Pelosi.

McConnell's Mule
McConnell's Mule
2 years ago

Trump painted himself into a corner – quite the feat, as it is the Oval Office – and had allegedly been looking for an out that would allow him to “win” the shutdown he created. No such opportunity existed, public sentiment was quickly turning on the GOP, GOP senators were turning on each other like fighting dogs, so he collapsed like a house of cards. Somehow I thought that winning would look vastly different from what I’d call a spectacular self-own.

Tovius
Tovius
2 years ago

@Moggie
From that blurb, I was half expecting a gay romance novel.

Tovius
Tovius
2 years ago

@Lunzie Mespil
Sadly, unless trump was removed at the same time, he would have ample time to appoint a replacement VP. (That’s how Ford became president, in fact)

McConnell's Mule
McConnell's Mule
2 years ago

About those tax cuts…. sigh,

It will be unfortunate that many might likely owe, as people generally expect refunds, and do not have funds laying about to pay tax bills. However, perhaps such unwelcome surprises will shake loose some (more?) of Orange Foolius’s fan club. As with the shutdown, even ardent supporters’ devotion wears thin when they are personally affected by something their Dear Leader caused. Displeasure is likely increased exponentially when their pocketbooks are involved. Perhaps they will decide that the racism, xenophobia, misogyny and all-around wankerism is quite literally not worth the price.

Jane Done
Jane Done
2 years ago

@Moggie

Randomly popping in to say thanks for the goat picture, it reminded me to drink water

Back OT, I’m pretty shocked to see (an infinitesimally small amount of) accountability actually happening.

Jesalin: Clit-o-centric Lesbian Goddess
Jesalin: Clit-o-centric Lesbian Goddess
2 years ago

Dear Diary,

I hate my existence. I want to die but I’m too weak and cowardly to actually do anything about it. And at the same time I no longer have any idea how to keep going. I do what I can to help other people, even when I really don’t have the energy, but somehow I never seem to rate a second thought. Even on the few occasions I’ve made my pain plain to see, my emotional bullshit only ever seems to piss people off. I try to stay strong and keep it to myself, I do my best to not be a burden to anyone, but is it really too much to ask for acknowledgement and understanding of my pain/issues and maybe a little reassurance? Obviously that’s a rhetorical question, if I were worth any emotional bandwidth I wouldn’t be typing this now.

What is even the point of existing when life is pointless and full of pain? Why am I unable to end an existence that’s so empty and broken? I don’t know how to keep going, and I don’t think I can
pretend anymore that things will get better. I don’t know what to do. I could isolate myself even more, but that won’t make the pain go away, nor will it stop more pain from accumulating. I could try to keep going until everything crashes and burns completely and hope that that gives me the strength to finally end things. If there are any other options, they seem to be hidden from me.

I wish this existence was just a bad dream I could wake up from. But I’ve made that wish so many times, so yeah, I know this isn’t just a bad dream. Or if it is, it’s not the kind you can ever wake up from, no matter how much you beg and scream inside.

Jes Lin

Shadowplay
2 years ago

Jesalin – if you are on twitter, click my nym. DM’s are open and I am available for as long as you need.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Jessalin,

You’re not a burden. If you need us, we’re all here for you. I’m going to bed soon, but thanks to the polar vortex, I will not be able to go to work again tomorrow. I’ll be around all day if you need anything.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
2 years ago

Jes

Please please please check out your private messages bit on Discord.

Cyborgette
Cyborgette
2 years ago

Jesalin – please hold on. You’re not a burden, and I am so, so sorry I missed this.

You are a sister of mine, and I badly want you to survive, and be with us when better times come. Please.

offers many, many hugs

kupo
kupo
2 years ago

@Jes
We love you and are here for you. I know you’re going through some really difficult stuff right now, and I know when that eases up these underlying feelings it’s pushed to the surface won’t go away. But know that you matter, that you’re worth the emotional bandwidth, and you can reach out if you need anything.

Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
2 years ago

@Jes – I’m sorry you’re hurting so much right now. I know things are difficult right now, but please know that people care and are ready to help.

I know it isn’t much, but here’s a cute kitten –

comment image

and one that’s booping a dog’s nose

comment image

Moon_custafer
Moon_custafer
2 years ago

@Jes

Adding to the messages of support ^^^^^

Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy

@Jesalin, I’m so sorry you’re hurting this badly. We’re all here for you and sending massive support. Like a giant Mammoth hug to hold you up.
Same as Shadowplay said, please just click on my nym if you’re on Twitter at all and dm me.
There are so many friends here who care about you. 💜💜💜

Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
2 years ago

jes,

I don’t know what to say that the others didn’t already say better but I think you’re really cool and a good person. I always enjoy talking to you in discord and all the jokes and stuff you like to make. you are a good person and there are people who admire you and care about you, I am one of them! 💜💜💜💜💜🐈🐈🐈🐈🐈

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
2 years ago

@Jes,

I know it’s tough to feel good sometimes; sometimes feeling bad is default and then circumstances conspire to make it worse.

There are lots of people who care about you a great deal. You don’t have to talk about what’s bothering you if you don’t want to; you don’t have to talk at all. Your presence is enough.

You’ll make it through <3

Dalillama
Dalillama
2 years ago

@Jes
Nthing what the others have said. You’re valid, valuable, and worthwhile.
*love and hugs* I’m on Discord most of the time to talk.

Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Intergalactic Meanie
Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Intergalactic Meanie
2 years ago

@Jes,

Nthing what the others here have already said, since I’m bad when it comes to saying the right thing to offer comfort to others. Best thing I have right now to offer you is a bit of escapism in the form of a Pern roleplaying game I’m on, that lets players play gender-fluid / non-binary dragons if they want to. And play humans like that, too.

Don’t know if you’d be interested in a place like that, but even if all you’d want to do is not join but just read the posts others write, I can give you a link to it. Hit me up on Discord DM, and I can give you more details about the game, and a link.

Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy

Hi all, if anyone is in touch with Jesalin (via Discord or elsewhere), could you let us know if you have a moment?
Obviously our concerns are a very, very distant second to her wellbeing, which is paramount – but a lot of us are sorely worried, so if anyone has news, please post if you can, when you can.
Jesalin, if you’re reading, you’ve been in many people’s thoughts today. We’re wishing you well from all over the world. Please take care of yourself <3 <3 <3