By David Futrelle
Last year, weirdo online pastor “Coach” Dave Daubenmire caused a bit of a stir after he warned men not to give in to the devilish temptation of masturbation, because when a man jerks himself off he’s, well, jerking off a man, and even though that man is himself, it’s still totally gay.
Turns out he’s not the only one who feels this way. One NoFap Redditor — one who has posted in detail on his own efforts to cure what he considers a fierce masturbation addiction — made a similar declaration last summer in the UnpopularOpinions subreddit, where his views did indeed turn out to be quite unpopular.
“Masturbation is gay,” announced asdasdasdasdfff44. “You’re jerking off a penis and a man is jerking you off.”
This particular Redditor — let’s just call him Asdas for short — wasn’t the first Redditor to have this thought, but while most of those who’ve posted on the subject seem to have be joking. Asdas clearly wasn’t.
He set out his arguments one by one, starting with the most anatomically difficult — but also, he thinks, the most obviously gay — example he could imagine. (His examples only apply to cis men, though presumably he thinks cis women who masturbate are gay too.)
Autofellatio. That’s sucking your own dick. Yes, it can be done and you can likely do it too with determination and flexibility training. Ask just about anyone and you will be told it’s gay as fuck, you’re literally sucking dick. They’d be correct. You probably know it’s gay as fuck too, no need to ask others.
Actually, judging from some other Reddit discussions of this particular form of self-pleasure, there doesn’t seem to be a consensus on this issue. While some Redditors think it’s “hella gay,” a larger number seem to be envious of any guy who can pull off this particular stunt, and don’t consider it gay at all. “As long as you tell yourself ‘no homo’ in the mirror beforehand you’re good to go,” joked one Redditor in a SettleThisForMe subreddit discussion. It’s only gay “if you make eye contac,” joked another.
But Asdas didn’t consider any possible objections, and quickly moved on.
“I’m thinking about a woman so it’s not gay”. You may be thinking about a woman when you’re fucking a goat too, that doesn’t mean you’re not fucking a goat. Ultimately a man is jerking you during masturbation and you’re stroking a cock.. that happens to be yours. Notice how that’s gay as fuck.
This raises so many questions. What if you’re thinking about a goat when you’re fucking a woman? What if a goat is thinking about you?
Asdas continued:
“It’s not someone else’s cock”. Ok then, grab a realistic dildo and stroke it rigorously and sensually or whatever you do when you masturbate. Yes, stroking a dick. Notice how that’s gay as fuck.
I don’t know how many guys stroke dildos when they masturbate. But guys certainly fuck a lot of inanimate objects, and I feel I could use more guidance from Asdas on this subject. What if you fuck an apple pie? Not gay, right? How about if you fuck a GAY WEDDING CAKE!?
Alas, Asdas offered no answers on any other inanimate objects beyond dildoes, and instead moved on to his final argument:
When masturbating, you get 10% the sensation of penetrating a real vagina and 100% the sensation of stroking a real penis.
Huh. I have heard rumors that there are numerous heterosexual sex acts that do not involve a penis penetrating a vagina at all. Are they all gay too?
Once again, no answers from Asdas, who wrapped up his post with a bold challenge:
If you think masturbation is not gay, you have an obligation to suck your own dick too in order to be consistent.
Asdas was stunned when a large number of the commenters informed him that they, and most other men, would be happy to do this if only they “could bend that far.”
“No,” Asdas declared, in evident horror, “most would be horribly disturbed by such an idea.”
“Are you new to the internet?” his interlocutor replied. “Or just to like, people in general?”
Good questions, both. Had Asdas done any research on the internet at all, he would learned, among other things, that many if not most men have tried to suck their own dicks, a feat only a few men are capable of pulling off, and that there’s a big subculture of dudes who not only think jerking themselves off isn’t gay, but also that jerking off next to other dudes jerking off isn’t gay either. Because sexuality is weird and complicated and people draw lines between gay and straight in all sorts of places, or don’t draw clear lines at all.
Because in the end, whether a sexual act is gay or straight, or neither, or something else entirely, is less about what goes on with the body than it is about what’s going on in the mind.
And one thing that seems abundantly clear is that what’s going on in Asdas’ mind when it comes to sex isn’t really doing him or anyone else much good. Homophobia and toxic masculinity are two terrible tates that taste worse together.
We Hunted the Mammoth is independent and ad-free, and relies entirely on readers like you for its survival. If you appreciate our work, please send a few bucks our way! Thanks!
I think I was thinking of the Quakers, not the Amish. My mistake.
Actually, tying two comments together, the Wikipedia page says that the T-V distinction was actively starting to disappear from English during the time that Shakespeare was writing, and you can see various writers and playwrights from the time using the distinction at different levels.
@Wandering Jewterus, hi! Welcome!
I can’t explain why everyone else interacts with the trolls, just myself. They’re all basically the same reasons as above.
For the audience of sympathetic readers, I try to lay out all of my arguments clearly, so that they can understand them and maybe have some new realizations in their own lives. That’s why I can be so thorough at times – a troll will say something that can bridge into something important, and I’ll use it as an excuse to talk about that thing. It can also be good for helping people stay positive, too. Lots of good eggs out there reading right now, and to my understanding they’re uplifted by our troll-slaying efforts. So I try to keep my spear sharp.
For the audience of unsympathetic readers – the trolls, the lobsters, etc – I’m writing for a rather different reason. I try to keep my individual replies pithy and sharp, because they’re seeds. I don’t expect that any one reply I make will convince them then and there, that’s not how people work. I try to dig that seed in under their skin and make it itch. That way when something happens to them in real life that lets them consider softening their position, there’s a seed planted, ready to take root. So it’s important to be well-written, pithy, and with ironclad logic. A hard kernel of truth that doesn’t wash away.
For the troll, specifically? Usually I try to tug them towards the inconsistencies in their position. Again, I’m not going to change their minds, but i’ll generally try to turn their sass attempts into a public dissection of their beliefs – again, to show the grody guts to the audience.
For myself, I do it to keep myself sharp and to make me question my own beliefs, too. For example – Ambrose up there? A troll, certainly, but not an MRA, I don’t think. Not a feminist certainly. Just a patriarchal dick who’s very sure of himself. My thinky-thoughts on that from yesterday involved that re-evaluation. I don’t think he was a reoccurring troll, I think he did some reading here and elsewhere and decided to log in and tease us for a laugh. Now he’s back to lookin at midlife-crisismobiles on Kijiji or gossiping about football or whatever.
Hope that helps you understand why I pile in on the trolls, at the least.
Banhammer time!
Rhuu,
I don’t know where all trolls go when they get banned, but DA, by his own logic ceases to exist now.
I don’t really think anyone believes that I’m against grappling with trolls, but just to be clear, I find that skipping the trolls’ posts and just reading responses saves me a lot of time. I read *ALL* the responses because they’re all so very worth my time!
I’d like to thank everyone who take the time to play whack-a-troll because I’ve steadfastly been the learning lurker. Even if I do venture into commenting-myself-territory from time to time.
wwth said
snerk!
@weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee:
Or as SF writer John Scalzi calls it on his blog, The Mallet of Loving Correction. ???
In memoriam: a banger courtesy of The Sisters of Mercy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_GSTIp4G8w
Appropriate, no? ?
@Cat Mara
The Sisters of Mercy don’t deserve this! ?
@ cat mara
Oh gawd, the Sisters; that brings back memories!
Just for you though, my favourite Sisters cover; with even better lyric…
https://youtu.be/UYHicnQd1SY
Pretty Pink Punanni Princess has been a semi-regular commenter: (example comment)
@Ariblester
Telling
Ariblester,
Do you have a perfect memory or are you just the best ever at Google?
Either way, it’s impressive.
@Ariblester “Impressive. Most Impressive.” 😀
@Thee/thou/you people So I’m guessing that “Dost mother know thou wearest her drapes?” is not quite grammatically correct? 😉
@Fishy Goat: Not quite. “Dost” should be “Doth”; it is otherwise perfect.
@wwth
I just Google
I then check the post date, which is usually reflected in the search blurb.
It’s a bit annoying to sift through the results because Google also scrapes the “Recent Comments” part of the page, which results in many, many hits for otherwise unrelated posts.
I also remembered their username (it is quite memorable) from previous posts.
I’d just like to add that stomping trolls is fun.
@Fishy Goat:
Well, I think that’s right on for the “thou” bits:
As for the “Dost” at the beginning, I would think that isn’t actually correct and that the 3rd person there should not have a final “t”.
What 3d person is that?
@cornychips
thanks, it’s a leftover joke from way back^^
And thanks for the nice words.
There used to be second person formal/ second person plural it just came out of fashion.
Trolls quickly get tedious, IMNSHO – but you good people’s responses frequently make my day, make me laugh, make me think, and make me follow links to find out more stuff I didn’t know.
So thank you all.
Longtime lurker and occasional commenter who loves a good troll piñata (really, I all but cancel my evenings when I see that a comment section’s pages have suddenly spiked).
As adept this commentariat is at using wit/logic to deal with trolls, I’m afraid my undying favorite response has to be describing your current menstrual status to them. Just because it bothers them so much but (trolls being trolls) they can never seem to leave, leaving no one to blame for their displeasure but themselves.
I hope you continue to keep this a scary place for trolls. 🙂 You guys are very good at it.
“You other posters don’t exist when I look away” is an interesting philosophical position, also known as “idealism”. Let’s see, what philosopher was known for that particular variation of solipsism. George Berkeley
A friend in high school was fond of saying things like, “You’re a figment of my imagination, and I’m a figment of your imagination, so, logically, neither of us exist”. This may illustrate one of the problems with idealistic philosophy.
@WWTH –
omg, hahaha!
@Hambeast – I didn’t get that from your post at all. Sometimes I have energy to read troll posts (and then respond), sometimes it is a big ol’ nope. To each their own, I think!
Welcome @Sarity – I know there’s a link to the welcome package somewhere. Also, may I offer you this chair (hard) and these candles (scented)?
Thank you for the kind welcome, Scildfreja! I really appreciate it, as well as your indepth explanation re: dealing with trolls. These are all perspectives I hadn’t really considered, so having them pointed out helps immeasurably. I don’t normally post in online fora, so I’m not well practiced in the specifics of this kind of interaction.
Funny side note: the “ð” in your last name was giving me absolute fits last night while I was viewing the site on my mobile. I kept thinking that there was a piece of lint on the screen and no amount of wiping would get rid of it! LOL
@Wandering Jewterus
May I take the opportunity to say that yours is the most magnificent name I’ve come across anywhere in quite some time.
@Rabid Rabbit
Awwww ? thank you so much for saying so, Rabbit! It’s an inside joke between me and my partner that I thought would make a good username. I’m really glad it’s gone over so well; my partner was a little worried it might somehow be misconstrued as anti-semitic.
Whenever I see your name, I’m reminded of this image: