By David Futrelle
Sorry I’ve been AWOL for a couple of days; I’ve been taking care of some personal stuff (nothing dramatic, just very time-consuming). But there’s so much going on in the world I thought I’d put up an open thread.
Talk about Trump’s shittiness, the shutdown, the dueling Fyre Festival documentaries, the blizzard here in the US, or maybe those snot-nosed racist high school students harassing Native American elder Nathan Phillips, a veteran conducting a ceremony to honor the war dead in DC
On that last point, here are some videos; watch only if you are ready to be enraged. The students, from a Catholic high school, were in DC for the “March for Life,” evidently ran into Phillips by chance, and decided to harass him for being Native American, I guess.
On a somewhat lighter note, there was the whole Ben Shapiro/Baby Hitler thing. Here are several , er, enhanced versions of his remarks at the March for Life on the classic time-travel quandary — “would you kill Hitler when he was a baby?”
Despite Ben’s qualms about killing baby Hitler, he doesn’t actually give a shit about babies and other civilians from enemy countries killed in wars.
In other news:
Speaking of crappy food:
Back On Topic:
I have found that it is far easier to be aware of the privilege we lack than of the privilege we have.
For example, I’m disabled and on the autism spectrum. I think about how these affect my life far more than I notice my privilege as a straight white cis man.
Furthermore, while I have some Christian privilege, I am far more likely to notice areas where I lack that privilege due to being part of a minority sect (Quakers) that is outside the sects that dominate American religious and political life.
It’s something I think many people need to work on.
@Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Malifaux is my favorite tabletop game. It’s MUCH smaller scale than the more popular games like the Warhammers and Warmachine, with generally 6-10 models per side. And it has a REALLY cool Victorian Gothic Horror/Steampunk/Wild West vibe to it.
It’s also much less focused on “kill the other side” than most games, as each side has primary and secondary objectives that often involve getting models to specific points on the board to take actions. It’s actually possible to get wiped out and still win because you accomplished more objectives than your opponent!
The third edition of the game is currently going through an open beta, as I mentioned above, with a probable release date this summer for GenCon. Apart from addressing the balance issues that come into any long-lived game, one of the goals of the new edition is to make getting into the game easier with a greater focus on narrow sub-factions within each faction rather then needing to collect the faction as a whole.
(For example, I play Neverborn, the “monster” faction. If I want to, I can focus entirely on the Nightmares, a little kid and his “imaginary friends,” rather than needing to buy the various demons, giants, beasts, and puppets that make up the rest of the faction.)
Another thing I really like about Malifaux is the diversity of the cast. And only about a third of the female characters are dressed in impractical “sexy” outfits. For a miniature wargame, that’s remarkably good.
Cyborette- in my mind, I wasn’t letting the kids off the hook. I questioned whether some of the responses were over-aggressive and cruel., not to exonerate them for their behavior
I’m not saying “boys will be boys” What they did was very wrong, and I hope the nation -wide criticism of their actions doesn’t cause them to dig themselves further into the trenches of unearned smug- hopefully at least some of them can learn better and do better in the future now that their disgustingness has been shoved in their collective face
Understand, I have to believe that. I have at least tell myself I believe that even the shittiest among us can grow and change for the better, because otherwise I’d sink so much further into depression that I can see no way out ever.
Not that any of that is meant to justify any bad faith behavior in my part.
You could the ask why I don’t afford the same room for change and growth for the Black Israelis? I do. they are entrenched in their mindsets, and they are not children
But it’s the same reason I don’t hold out that hope for the Catholic Church- they’ve been doing this shit, fomenting hatred and violence for decades now- their schpiel never changes. Their dialogue is always the same, Perhaps nowadays sprinkled with sanctimonious plausible deniability
The statement that brought the BHI into the conversation was the claim that they are a minority group which the boys had been aggressive to before Nathan Phillips showed up. I mean, technically, that’s true. But it’s sweeping their aggressive rhetoric under the rug as if it were not a part of their identity.
The suggestion that they are merely a minority group, speaking up for their rights is not true. They to shamed and demeaned and spewed venom on native Americans. To do that was why they set up a presence there. the BHI was yelling at native Americans, that they deserved to have had their lands stolen by white men because they are heathens
None of that is meant to excuse or diminish the boys’ behavior or their racism, sexism , nor their obnoxious sense of invulnerability, and I do get now why it’s important to not pull focus from criticism of them; their representing the power in that dynamic. I’m sorry that I took that focus off of them
Like you, I never expected all this to blow up so much. And I didn’t expect, though in retrospect, I should have, that people would see my remarks in the most negative light-
One last thing, however, you wrote that I was ignoring the homophobia and antisemitism of the boys. Fair? But to frame it as my doing it because that’s what people like me always do is buying into the whole idea that people can be divided, and it’s OK to dismiss one group because they can’t help but be “that way”. It’s adapting the mindset of a bigot. Maybe you feel that is something you must do- fight back using their own divisive methods against them? Is it that? “They” shouldn’t get to use weapons that are forbidden to us? That’s a dangerous path, though
You are very smart; you had to have known to expect anyone who is the target of oppression to be rankled by that sort of thing. Be kinder
I play the warhams, mostly because I like to paint and because it’s good socialization background. I have also been goaded into trying other games, but never that one! The idea of only having to paint 6-10 models is certainly appealing, and the sculpts are nice. I will have to do a lookie-loo!
Cyborette. I apologize for writing a book. I’m still having trouble getting the edit feature to work as it should in my ipad. Even when I’m eagle to edit it just blips out before I’m finished sometimes.
Anybody who knows how to stop this?
Also, anyone know how to change ones icon? I hate the one I chose
That’s not what she did at all. She pointed out how your privilege was showing. White gay men tend to behave this qay because their privilege blinds them. Not because they “can’t help” it. She never said nor implied that.
Don’t be like this. You’re the one being unkind, here. Do you know anything about Cyborgette? Her background, what oppressed groups she’s part of? Try listening for a change. You get “rankled” whenever you get called out. And yes, she’s smart and probably anticipated that, because that’s what privileged people do when confronted on their behavior, but she was still kind enough to attempt to teach you by pointing it out.
Scildfreja -is your icon one of your paintings? It’s very beautiful
@Nequam Re; Margaret Murray – what the others have said. From what I’ve read (sorry, can’t remember where) her Egyptology work is somewhat more respected, but still has some erroneous conclustions. That said, my absolute favourite novel Lammas Night by Katherine Kurtz uses the main thesis of The Divine King In England to hang a rollicking good narrative on. And Kurtz’s book may be of interest to WW2 buffs (related to MI6 counter intelligence in reference to astrology, dowsing and such).
(FYI I own God of The Witches and The Witch Cult In Western Europe. Was part of my Wiccan studies many years ago. 🙂 I admit I have a bit of a soft spot for her.)
Ooops, this was the link I had wanted to post above. 😛
Achives shed new light on the role played by astrology in World War II
Kupo- except she didn’t frame it that way: she framed it as what white gay men ALWAYS do; as something we inevidibly do without exception. If she had said it’s something that white gay men often do, that’s fair. That’s not what she wrote. You are twisting things up to suit your own worldview. I know you want to believe that she was merely pinning out my privilege, and that’s what I was objecting to, because that’s what privileged people do, but you are wrong. I didn’t writ anything if the kind, and that’s not what triggered my reaction to her statement.
Are you crouching this as dismissing your view of the situation as having less worth than mine? If that’s the case (and from your previous rhetoric I suspect it to be) you’ve gotten your head into a mental trap that gives yourself permission to dismiss any tongue that isn’t firmly up your ass. It’s so easy to be sanctimonious what you tell yourself that everyone who doesn’t agree with you is not only wrong, but morally deficient. I know. I’ve been there
And, further, she said that I was excusing or ignoring white people’s antisemitism. I didn’t do that, so that was just inaccurate- nothing in the comment is how you are framing it.
And nothing in my objection to it was me saying that can’t be what I’m like.
Or maybe oppressed people get triggered when accused of being like everyone else in their box
Wow this is extremely unfair. I don’t know what else to say except this is a really common thing that people always say aboit Kupo which is simply not true. Just because she doesn’t sugar-coat things doesn’t mean she only likes people with their “tongues up her ass”. That’s a horrible thing to say, and totally unfair.
If you think she is calling you morally deficient by criticising you, that is your perception, it is your assumption, there is no evidence that this is what she is doing.
You are right. It was not called for.
I apologize to anyone who read that.
The tongue thing was unfair
.
Still, I’m having a time figuring out why she continuously twists what I said. Could be my fault for not being clearer, but when someone says X told you this, and they didn’t and that you said that back, when that was not what happened, it’s a mystery why they would do so otherwise
Kupo seems to be a very conscientious writer in general, so I’m stuck wondering
Though, as has been said here, actions matter, intentions don’t. If kupo has gotten that response in the past….
@Allandrel
Sounds good, M2 definitely had a Master+All Star issue at times. Jack Daw, Viktorias, and Collette for me. My girlfriend has Titania and Lucius.
Warhammer Fantasy/40k had an annoying trend towards larger models when I drifted away, plus I had some bad luck with my factions. Wood Elves, Beastmen, and Adeptas Sororitas didn’t fare well.
Hexum7,
No.
This is not an invitiaon to discuss kupo more and bitch about her. You apologise but then conclude with this? Then you are clearly not sorry.
Just stop and think about what you are saying and if it is fair.
Kupo is not twisting words. You were twisting them before in some of your other replies however.
@Hexum7:
I don’t think anyone is crouching this.
Words, how do they work?
a trap?
No need for a trap to dismiss “crouching” words. If you don’t know what’s a metaphor*, then there’s a wee possibility that dismissing your words is simply pragmatic preservation of time.
No one needs permission to dismiss you. Consent, how does it work?
Oh no. You don’t get to redeem your intellectual reputation just by making a Shakespeare reference. Besides, referring to The Taming of the Shrew isn’t going to be useful in convincing others you’re not buying into oppression. That play is sexist as hell. Also, you leave yourself wide open to the response, “Buzz off.”
If you’re going to go with Shakespeare when you’ve already managed to make yourself unsympathetic and unwelcome, it’s got to be something self-deprecatingly humorous. Try comparing yourself to Orlando to charmingly regain your conversational footing, e.g.
That reference has several benefits. First, the comparison to the stalkery Orlando with a propensity for butchering the english language is actually apt. Second, you might convince a few people that the “crouching” bit was careless rather than clueless. Thirdly it introduces a bit of humility into your online persona here that would ironically distance yourself from Orlando just by making the reference. Fourth, it’s not quite as obvious – I mean, isn’t anilingus always the go-to Shakespeare reference? Fifth, As You Like It references demonstrate some sympathy toward women enduring the idiocy, and, yes, even quite specifically the mansplaining, that many women characters endure in Shakespeare and many actual women endure in this thread without any acknowledgement, sympathy, or support. And finally, it’s actually a bit funny.
=========================
*BTW: It’s to keep your cows in.
Just because I interpreted Cyborgette’s words differently than you did doesn’t mean I’m intentionally twisting her words. I’m letting you know how someone they weren’t targeted at interpreted them. But you don’t seem to want yo learn and you just want to use sexually charged language against me, so I’m going to stop replying to you.
This is Cyborgette’s initial comment
‘White queerdom’ is pretty obviously meant the same way as ‘white feminism’ is. It does not mean all white queer people or all white feminists are racist. It means there are styles of queerdom and feminism that center around the needs and perspectives of their white members.
@Hexum7
So yeah I didn’t say anyone “couldn’t help it”, nor did I deliberately imply such. IDK if you’re aware you’re putting words in my mouth, but you are; please stop.
White guys can totally be aware and compassionate, sure, that’s a fact. It’s also a fact that you haven’t been doing that much in this thread. In fact TBH I notice you’re being civil towards male posters, but vitriolic and dismissive towards women and nonbinary folks.
That’s not cool. Take a step back, take some deep breaths, check yourself. In particular stop being such an ass to kupo – she’s doing a better and more thorough job confronting your bullshit than I’m capable of, and I’m grateful for that and for her coming to my defense.
Do better, mkay?
…
As far believing that even the worst of us can become better. I mean, I don’t (just based on my own experiences), but I think most of us can. I’d LIKE for most of us to become better people. However, people who are really deep in bad shit often won’t try to improve themselves until others demonstrate that their shit will not be tolerated – humans as individuals are incredibly good at self-deception, it can take a real shock to the system to knock us out of that loop. Or failing that, just to prevent us from doing further harm.
(And some people simply won’t change, and will be cruel, arrogant, and abusive no matter what they experience. People like that have figured very large in my life as abusers from an early age, and I know their habits and methods pretty well at this point – they’ll only be contained by a society that refuses to tolerate their bullshit, which this society is emphatically not.)
@Cyborette
“One of the more obnoxious habits of white queerdom is the way that it loudly calls out Black people on antisemitism and homophobia, while letting white people off the fucking hook for same.”
Could we have a different definition of the word “habit”? I’m beginning to think so. I think of something that is habitual, as something that is an uncontrollable unconscious behavior as in “habitually late”
“What you’re doing right now is a sterling example of this.”
I absolutely let no one “off the hook” for antisemitism or homophobia. That is an untruth
Please stop. Like, immediately.
Cyborette- quoting from you:
“One of the more obnoxious habits of white queerdom is the way that it loudly calls out Black people on antisemitism and homophobia, while letting white people off the fucking hook for same.”
Could we be using a different definition for habit? To me a habit is behavior that is habitual. an uncontrollable, unconscious and that one does all of the time.
Are you being coy, or did that not occur to you?
Nor did I let anyone for being homophobic or Antiemetic. So that’s just inaccurate.
I know you want to believe that I did, but go back and look at what I wrote. I dudnt excuse anyone for any behavior.
I like to think that maybe what we have here is a failure to communicate. But it’s been pushed pretty far
As for my being civil to make posters- I really don’t know the gender identity of anyone here. Not in a way that I think of them as make or female. I suppose may have been more civil to some who have make-identified names- but I think that was only 2 and only responded once to each. And neither of them deigned to call me a piece of shit, or an ahole, or. A vile quisling , or suggest that I had done something I did not Could you be projecting?
“Just because I interpreted Cyborgette’s words differently than you did doesn’t mean I’m intentionally twisting her words”
Fair enough, but I wasn’t talking about intent
“. I’m letting you know how someone they weren’t targeted at interpreted them.”
No you didn’t. You absolutely to no time to explain that you interpreted her words differently. You just said that she said something that her words did not convey, and then accused me of not listening to them, as you are still doing.
“But you don’t seem to want yo learn and you just want to use sexually charged language”
Which I aplogized for already, and dispute what anyone else claimed, That was not a false apology. One can do so and still have other bones to pick in a discussion
*sniffs the air*
Gee, guess I did smell troll after all.
Whoah. Dude. I don’t know my Shakespeare but I know that line. If you’re trying to prove your good intent, you could do a lot better than quoting a character whose canonical defining feature is being an abusive, gaslighting, grade-A bastard.
Hexum, stop trolling or leave.
Is anybody else like, really disturbed by this incident? It makes me sick to see the way people are trying to defend those asshole kids after what they did. It took me a view days to get up the strength to watch the video which I did today, and I already regret it. I don’t know, I guess this is another conflict between trying to be aware but trying to preserve mental health. I know I should probably suspend media for a few days, but that’s harder for me than I’d like to admit. Anyway, everything is horrible.