By David Futrelle
Sorry I’ve been AWOL for a couple of days; I’ve been taking care of some personal stuff (nothing dramatic, just very time-consuming). But there’s so much going on in the world I thought I’d put up an open thread.
Talk about Trump’s shittiness, the shutdown, the dueling Fyre Festival documentaries, the blizzard here in the US, or maybe those snot-nosed racist high school students harassing Native American elder Nathan Phillips, a veteran conducting a ceremony to honor the war dead in DC
On that last point, here are some videos; watch only if you are ready to be enraged. The students, from a Catholic high school, were in DC for the “March for Life,” evidently ran into Phillips by chance, and decided to harass him for being Native American, I guess.
On a somewhat lighter note, there was the whole Ben Shapiro/Baby Hitler thing. Here are several , er, enhanced versions of his remarks at the March for Life on the classic time-travel quandary — “would you kill Hitler when he was a baby?”
Despite Ben’s qualms about killing baby Hitler, he doesn’t actually give a shit about babies and other civilians from enemy countries killed in wars.
In other news:
Speaking of crappy food:
@ weatherwax:
my gramma made the most HEAVENLY dumplings
Thankfully, the Braves managed to jettison Chief Noc-a-Homa and his teepee. Baby steps.
Decades ago, American sports teams used to name themselves after animals or inanimate objects with a quality that the team could identify with. It’s bizarre (but par for the course) to lump Native Americans in with eagles, lions, bears, jazz, and white socks, as if they’re just another “thing”.
Awhile back there was a intramural basketball team at the University of Northern Colorado that named itself the “Fighting Whities” in order to satirize the use of Native American team names. The mascot was an Ozzie Nelson-looking guy in a suit. It backfired, though, when white supremacists started wearing the T shirts non-ironically.
@Faerie Bard – Hang in there. I’m sorry about all the stress this is causing you.
(hope this works…)
problem solved?
@Weatherwax, @VP,
Rivers of London is a lot of fun! I’ve read most of the novels plus a novella and one of the graphic novels (really well done – I loved how the characters are drawn).
@Sir Pterry fans in general
It makes me very happy seeing other folks talking about Discworld. We’re coming up to the 4th anniversary of Sir Pterry’s death, aren’t we? Wow ?
Related note: I recently suggested to a student who’s a big Gaiman fan that he should try Pratchett, too. Start with Good Omens, I said, as that’s both authors.
I saw him a few days later and he brandished a copy at me yelling “Omfg
this is THE BEST but I can’t stop reading and I need to study!!!”
First, they came for the Salmon fishery protections, but I do not eat salmon, so I did not object. Then they came for the oil spill protections, but I did not object because I do not live on the coast. Next they came for Medicaid, but I am not disabled, so I did not object. Then they came for the public health insurance, but I am insured at my job, so I did not object. Then they came for food stamps, but I did not object because I do not receive food assistance. Then they came for W.I.C., but I have no infant children, so I did not object. They came for the low-income housing, but I did not object because I have a home I am able to pay for. They came for the teacher’s salaries and unions, but I have no children in school. They came for the service industry worker’s right to organize, but my job is not in a service industry. They have come for all the unions, now. They have come for the rest of the workers rights to organize. They have come for the right to collectively sue in court. I pray my good job lasts, and I can stay in my home and continue to buy my food, because now they are coming for my Social Security and my Medicare – and I am growing older.
I hope they never come for the on-street parking, because all my friends and neighbors are living in their cars.
@Mish: Good Omens is one of my favourite books too. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve read it– on a good day I can get through it in a few hours! It’s perfect. Maybe it comes from working in IT but the jokes about software licence agreements (“learn, guys!”) and call centres have a special resonance for me. ?
@Cat Mara,
Yes! I loved the many biblical references; m’family had an intense religious phase during my teens.
I remember reading interviews with Neil and Terry where they described book signings – people would bring their copies of Good Omens in all kinds of condition, like one that was completely dismembered and kept in a plastic shopping bag ?
Addendum: I’ve been searching all morning for my Good Omens because now I want read it again. I CAN’T FIND IT ANYWHERE. This is epic tragedy.
@Allendrel
How’s the M3 beta shaping up? I haven’t had a chance to read it over myself.
Is it possible that the students could have been disrespectful to an indigenous elder, culturally insensitive twats, and mean, trump loving bullies, and all round pieces of shit, and at the same time this has been blown out of proportion by the interwebs hot takesmiths?
if watch the entire video made by the Black Israeli group, their leader says that when “Gad”, their name for Nathan Phillips (no clue what it means) walked into the crowd of boys drumming, they immediately calmed down and “the spirit” of the music was visibly moving them
The same leader also says towards the end that there was no time when they felt threatened or harrassed by the kids, and that they were having a good conversation with the school boys
So, could Phillips have misinterpreted what was happening when he arrived at the scene, and during.? Could he have mistaken a heated conversation for aggression? Well, one of them did misinterpret, as they can’t all be accurate assessments?
I think that the real reason that this bugs me is because I know, as others have confirmed, that the Black Israelis are racist, homophobic, sexist, anti-Semitic, anti- women’s choices, Lowlife fundamental Christian hate- mongers who use bible nonsense as a weapon… So, I fucking can’t stand these guys.
That’s course, a separate issue from the smiling douche- but as someone on this thread said, it’s not what’s in your heart, it’s what you do’ that goes both ways. You can’t look at a smile and presume you know the thoughts or intentions behind it, can you?
Ps. I’m not putting these questions in that format to be coy or cagey. This thing really has me confused
So are Catholics, and this school in particular has a history of all of those things.
that may be true, but like people said here many times before: intent is not magic.
And you know what this actually look like? you making excuses for the racist provocative behavior of the boys and their chaperones (wearing MAGA hats is aggressive and racist, it is only little bit less than more clear racist symbols like confederate flags. It looks like you are focussing on the BHI when there are only 5 of them and 100 boys. It looks like you are blaming Nate for misreading the situation and putting himself in the centre when he didn’t need to. Why can’t you trust what he says in his video? Why are you listening to the BHI first and not him? especially when you say you hate them?
Nate already explained that his experience as military man and a veteran and a life time activist (who experience a this kind of racism regularly) helped him recognise the mob mentality so he bravely put himself in the line of harm to diffuse the situation. He is a brave and dignified man. Why can’t you listen to him? Instead of what the BHI say and the very strange statement from the child that is very clearly written by his parents with the help from a lawyer.
Nate is the one here who is moral and brave, he is the most honest – let’s listen to him first.
No.
@Hexum7
One of the more obnoxious habits of white queerdom is the way that it loudly calls out Black people on antisemitism and homophobia, while letting white people off the fucking hook for same.
What you’re doing right now is a sterling example of this.
Please stop. Like, immediately.
“Is it possible that the students were disrespectful to an indigenous elder, culturally insensitive, mean, Trump-loving bullies, and all round pieces of shit, but it turns out none of that is bad, actually?” I believe your take is the hottest of them all.
P.S. I censored your slur! Maybe don’t use those!
Vanlentin. i understand why asking such questions seems like I was defending the brats. However, I wasn’t. how they behave was clearly offensive.
Nor did I suggest that I believe the Black Israeli over Nate. However, one of them had to have been wrong in their assessment. So
often, we read intention based on what people say or write based on an idea of ill intent- or at Ieast I often do.
As for Slick Nick’s statement, I knew he was mostly full of shit the moment I read that he claims to have been saying “a silent prayer”….Cartoonishly insincere. He should fire his attorney.
I suppose the broad outline of his account may contain some truth, but his “recollection” of what went down during his encounter with Mr. Phillips is clearly worth the paper it’s posted online on-
Kupo. As a product if peri hail schools and another all-male prep school I completely concur; The damage the Catholic Church has heaved up on people’s lives is unforgivable.. I know it damaged mine. A trillion Our Fathers and a gaziillion Hail Marys for every member of the RCC could not expunge their guilt .
Someone mentioned that the Catholic Church refused to distribute condoms or explain safe sex practices to African Nations plagued by AIDS. But it wasn’t just Africa;
In New York Ciry, catholic hospitals for years would not explain safe sex practices to gay men who were hospitalized from AIDS complications. Genocide on their bloody hands
Yeah and I don’t think Nate was wrong. An experienced man like that, and judging from the video too, it looks a lot like a mob mentality. I think his assessment is much more reliable than the BHI.
Also if you understand asking such questions looks like defense of “the brats” then ask yourself if it is even necessary to ask these questions right now. Because I will say right now is one of the best tines to show solidarity with native Americans, and not try to cast doubt on their accounts of racist experiences, or their experience in knowing when racist incidents start to escalate to mob mentality. Now is the best time for us to listen instead of asking questions and being a contra.
Valentin
I see what you are saying about now being the time to be in solidarity with indigenous peoples. Thanks. I really had not considered that. Lips zipped
I’ll give it a go for you my duck.
Confusion is an indication that something important is missing from your understanding of the world. It’s a good time to ask questions and then to listen to the answers. So, good instinct.
Addendum: You gotta be careful that your questions aren’t leading. They shouldn’t point towards the answers you think are correct, or they aren’t actually questions – they’re assertions.
Anyways, on to it. I’ll be brief.
Of course those two things can both be true. This is pretty clearly a rhetorical question, i.e. one of those assertions I was talking about. You’re basically saying “This has all been blown out of proportion” with this statement. Do I have that right?
You’re welcome to hold that position! I don’t agree with it, myself, and I don’t think many here think it’s been blown out of proportion, either. Thankfully no one died, that’s all I can say about it given the current era.
As has been said elsewhere – racism needs to be confronted firmly. Let them know in no uncertain terms that it is not acceptable.
Could Mr. Phillips have misinterpreted what was going on? This is rhetorical again, not a question. Of course he could misinterpret. You’re asserting that this is a likely possibility here.
Again, it’s your opinion that he did (if that is in fact your opinion). All I gotta ask on that is – so? That shouldn’t earn him any of this racist provocation.
I get the feeling that this, again, is a rhetorical question – you’re saying “it’s unreasonable to look at an expression and think we know the thoughts going on behind it.”
That’s not quite true, though. We can. We obviously can’t do this perfectly, but body language is a powerful tool. It’s almost impossible to fake the signals our faces and bodies give off, and this is doubly so for someone inexperienced and in the middle of a heated social situation.
So yes, it’s safe to look at a smug, arrogant, condescending kid and think “that kid is smug, arrogant and condescending.” They may not intend to be that way, they may believe themselves to be brave defenders of freedom and justice in that moment. I’d be thoroughly unsurprised if he believes that he wasn’t being racist at all. But that doesn’t change the social signals he was giving off and their indelible link to the currents of his emotion.
Oh, yeah, also – his intentions don’t matter in this case, it’s what he does that matters.
Anyways, that’s the questions, and I hope that you’ll take my replies in a conciliatory spirit; that’s how I intended it. Go reread your questions, see if you can detect your opinions leaking through them. I know you didn’t intend for that to happen – you wanted them to be objective and sincere, but it feels like you had favourite conclusions in mind when you wrote them. That sort of thing is antithetical to truth seeking.
Oh and one last thing. Valya’s right. This isn’t what amplifying minority voices looks like.
cybergette – this might be a repeat of post I don’t see, but please try not to saddle me with your sterotypical prejudices.
She was rightly calling you out on your bullshit. And her name is Cyborgette.
Scild – , Thanks for the advice. In that the questions I asked questioned the narrative, it an be taken as an attack, or at least an attempt to create a new narrative, one that I must seem to prefer just by the act of questioning.
I should get a book on how to communicate without impossing prejudiced assumptions – I mean, everyone has them, but just being aware of how to accomplish that could help awareness of the prejudices, I think.
Kilo. No she wasn’t. I didn’t even hint that was my point of view.
Further, even if I were spouting that bullshit , it is never appropriate to bolster such an accusation with the assertion ” this bullshit is common for you people” ( unless it’s an innate quality, of course)
Replace white queerfolk with “women” or “black people” or “Jews” and tell me you don’t see anything off-kilter about that statement
The reason for indicating white queer folk is because of the privilage of whiteness and the ignorance which comes with privilage. That is the reason for cyborgette to say that. It is not equivalent to Black people, women or Jewish people becuase the issue here is privilage of whiteness.
Also white queer people, specifically cis white gay men have a bad habit of ignoring the suffering of other queer people and groups so long as their own life is comfortable.
It’s kupo.
She was calling you out on your actions. And your actions in this case are very much what she described.
Sure it is, when you’re punching up at privileged people.
I guess you missed the key adjective, here: white.
yes, I get that I have white male privledge. But I know what it’s like to be oppressed and demeaned for who I am. And I know that isn’t right, and i understand that it happens to many others in many different ways
I’ll never fully know what it’s like to face life as an ethnic minority, or a transgendered person. I get that. But I can try to be empathic based on.
Nevertheless, a stereotype, especially a negative one is putting people into a mental box whether they fit the stereotype or not. Cybergettes so-sure and so- judgemental assumption that I was diminishing prejudice when it comes from white folk is a perfect example of that