By David Futrelle
Sorry I’ve been AWOL for a couple of days; I’ve been taking care of some personal stuff (nothing dramatic, just very time-consuming). But there’s so much going on in the world I thought I’d put up an open thread.
Talk about Trump’s shittiness, the shutdown, the dueling Fyre Festival documentaries, the blizzard here in the US, or maybe those snot-nosed racist high school students harassing Native American elder Nathan Phillips, a veteran conducting a ceremony to honor the war dead in DC
On that last point, here are some videos; watch only if you are ready to be enraged. The students, from a Catholic high school, were in DC for the “March for Life,” evidently ran into Phillips by chance, and decided to harass him for being Native American, I guess.
On a somewhat lighter note, there was the whole Ben Shapiro/Baby Hitler thing. Here are several , er, enhanced versions of his remarks at the March for Life on the classic time-travel quandary — “would you kill Hitler when he was a baby?”
Despite Ben’s qualms about killing baby Hitler, he doesn’t actually give a shit about babies and other civilians from enemy countries killed in wars.
In other news:
Speaking of crappy food:
“It is very clear from the video that they are harrassing. The mob could’ve dispersed anytime. They chose to continue surrounding Phillips.”
OK, this is what seems to have happened:
They stand there chanting their chants, they say it was school chants, whatever. Phillips and his group come up to THEM sounding drums and singing. If we leave aside staring guy and build the wall guy(s), the rest are reacting in all sorts of ways, some are filming, some chant ey-ey-ey with the drum rythm, some are goofing around, some are just standing there. How the fuck can they be guilty of harrassment just by NOT GOING SOMEWHERE ELSE when they were there first? Have you any idea how stupid that sounds?
Here’s at least one full video of the incident (recorded by the ‘house of Israel folks). I don’t know if it’s been posted already or not-I have to take one of my lizards to the vet, and don’t have time to review the whole thread.
I just want to make some points that mostly had nothing to do with the 2 guys who were fighting there own war here.
About Alternative Historys most experst seem it most likly that if the history was different, the Sowjets would have controlled even more of Europe. There is almost no scenario that makes the Nazis win the Second World War. And they were calling themselves military geniuses…
About Trigger Warnings: I have a short story collection that calls itslf Trigger Warning: Short Fictions and Disturbances so there are 2 books with that title. (For anyone asking its by Neil Gaiman)
About the discusion about Roman Catholics (for the minefield): Every discusion about religion can get ugly. People react imotionaly because they see it as an attack against temselves. (religion is for many people an important part of themselves)
I understand that on the other hand some of the teaching of the church are an attack against the core of some of the posters here.
Full disclosour: I am Roman Catholic.
Kupo, Yutolia, Crip Dyke, and contrapangloss are quite corect in the points they made and they made them civil.
I was suprised here in this tread how easy stalking seems to be. Saying not nice thinks about someone is allready stalking. He is suprised that actions have consequences? (Okay I have seen this some more times from some people mostly identifying themselves as on the right)
@Nazi Piece of Shit
No one here has said anything like that, and you perfectly well know it. We’ve said that the video speaks for itself and the post facto justifications offered by fascists (both those who were present and those, like your youtube fuhrer, who are merely taking up the swastika banner on their behalf) can safely be assumed to be bullshit, because, as previously noted, fascists can’t be trusted except to act like scum.
Hmm, anti – abortion demo attempting to influence a secular government, said demo sponsored by a church school to put forward a religious viewpoint ? Wonder if those kids are even aware of the issue per separation of church and state in the American Constitution.
I mildly complained when some guy were throwing insults at me (“piece of shit” etc) that would be acceptable in few forums that are moderated at all. That is it, as far as tone goes.
I´ve made ONE substantial point here: given that Phillips goes up to them and not the other way around, I don´t think they are harrassing anybody just by not going away (!) or not falling silent, the people that chants and moves with the drums could just as well be doing that just because they don´t really know how to react in a weird situation, and not everybody is even doing that. Few people have really responded to that, most people have just answered by pointing out what horrible people the students are, OK, but unless you think it doesn´t matter wether you tell the truth or not about horrible people, it is really irrelevant.
Also I don´t need to explain what my opinions are on other issues any more than I feel like, or my reasons for posting, or whatever.
@ hapnadsmannen:
ok, I’ll bite… one of the MAJOR problems we have with building a harassment-free society is the refusal of white people, particularly white men, to understand that we have an inherently unequal society. Just because the law no longer allows the smirking jerk to kill the Native Americans, does not mean the two groups are on equal footing.
Native Americans (and a bunch of other groups) know from birth that if confrontation with whites occurs, they will suffer consequences from the system. They know that when surrounded by whites in a tense situation, they might be killed, and they know that there will be limited repercussions to the whites, and even THOSE repercussions will be challenged.
The smirking jerk knows this, too. White people know from birth that the society is tilted in their favor (when white people claim that is NOT the case, it’s called “willful ignorance”).
So, I gotta ask… how can the white kids whom you claim were merely chanting… (what, their school songs?) while watching one of their ilk CLEARLY harassing the Native American drummer, just stand and gawk, and then claim complete innocence? Do YOU have any idea how stupid that sounds???
Two words: “tomahawk chops”. A gesture made in a racist caricature of a Native American. Made in the presence of a Native American. By several members of a group that outnumbered said Native American.
Even if the teens “didn’t know how to react” in that situation, they should have had enough sense not to make that gesture.
@Nazi sympathiser
Also not a guy, shithead.
Here’s a photo of Covington students shouting at a black basketball player while wearing blackface and flashing the white power sign.
https://twitter.com/mrFawkes51/status/1087212573525565440?s=19
Anti-abortion march = anti-woman
I have never met an anti- woman who wasnt racist. Ever.
How do i know? I was raised in the same shitty environment as these shitty kids, going to shitty anti choice rallies and being a disgusting shitheel of a person.
Fuck these kids.
It was interesting to note that some editorial apologetics are excusing the chanting and tomahawk chopping of Smuggy McSmugface and his acolytes as ‘just like you get at American football matches’.
Well, quite.
@for anybody on the fence about these shithead kids
PLEASE READ WWTHs TWITTER LINK.
@joekster
Hope your lizard is ok!
Joekster, thanks for video, could only see parts of it of course, but it looks like the confrontation between the black guys and the MAGA kids was quite long and tense before Phillips and his group stepped in. And yes Phillips do really get surrounded, but to me people just want to see what is happening.
Anyway, I didn´t plan to spend so much time on this discussion, lets just make a MINIMUM argument here to see if anyone can at least see a tiny bit of reason on the other side. Lets say we have 2 different situations:
A. The indigenous group is doing their ceremony or something and the catholic group comes up to them, surrounds them, start making noice, and then we get the situation seen in the most shared video.
B. The catholic kids are already chanting and shouting against the black religious guys, Phillips walks in between the groups and up to the school group and then we get to the abovementioned video.
1. Do you agree that EVEN IF you think the students are still behaving bad in case B it´s still a pretty big difference between one scenario and the other?
2. Do you agree that case B was what in fact happened?
3. Do you agree that this was far from clear in the media coverage and some of it was even directly missleading?
But it DOES matter whether the students are horrible people or not.
For example, imagine a photograph of a person making an OK symbol.
Normal person: they’re saying things are OK!
White supremacist: it’s a white power symbol and their intent is to intimidate you.
White supremacist is called out: “But I was just making an OK symbol! What’s your problem?”
The students were there in Washington for the sole purpose of affirming the right of white men to rule over others. Like it or not, their actions are going to be viewed through that lens.
I was using “guy” in the gender-neutral sense. English is not my native language but I´m pretty sure I have seen that usage.
hapnadsmannen:
Interesting enough on a blog, I also read, there is one question, that is asked often towards a new poster (often if they are suspected of beeing a troll for the culture war): Have you read any good book latly?
Interesting enough that does wonders to make trolls rage. For a non-trollposter it makes talking about somethink else interesting and often even if rightwing those who talk about non confrontational isue tend to last longer.
@ Alan:
That reminds me of the diferent standards I know of Football (for you Americans socer) stadions in Europe. There are countrys were visiting there is allways ugly one the other hand visiting the stadion of Liverpool is somethink that people dream of. (Sorry if someone here hates that club)
@hap
Its good to see you are using the “both sides” defense that trump likes.
Did you see wwth twitter link? Are you actually reading anything people are saying here? Obviously by your own words you admitted you were jaqing off here.
So WHY THE FUCK SHOULD ANYONE ARGUE WITH YOU IN GOOD FAITH. entitled douche
There are people who will argue it’s gender neutral, but usually in plural form. There are also people who will argue “man” and “men” are gender neutral. Even though some people use them that way, they’re not.
In the first case, a mob of bullies decide to turn their attention and aggression towards a single person, making insulting gestures and comments referencing the person’s race.
In the second case, a mob of bullies decide to turn their attention and aggression towards a single person, making insulting gestures and comments referencing the person’s race.
But! The second case is more okay, because the person was asking for it by interposing themselves between two hostile groups in an attempt to calm the situation down.
Am I understanding your reasoning so far.
Btw the situation with the black israelites really gets aggressive from both sides, and it goes on and on. If the school kids were supposed to be there with adult supervision as I think I´ve read, they must have gone for a coffee or something by that time.
There’s another issue for the school to look into, as well
…
re: MAGA hats and “both sides now”
The argument that “people wear MAGA hats for a lot of reasons” is so ignorant… literally.
“… but I only wear it because I care about America, not because I’m a bigot” is like Italians in the ’30s who said Mussolini made the trains run on time. The symbol is that of a man who’s entire presidential campaign was an unbroken string of insult, invective and hatred directed at everyone who isn’t him. Who’s first act in office was to ban Muslims (because they are Muslims) who come from any country except the one where all the Muslim terrorists come from. Who’s first act as commander-in-chief was to ban transgender people (because they are transgender people) from serving in the military. Who’s first acts as “leader of the free world” was to cozy up to Putin, Kim Jong Un , and Duterte (whom he admired because of summary executions). Who’s first act as Western Hemisphere diplomat was to try to build a wall (it’s not a wall, it’s a golden calf worshipped by people who have rejected everything their nation stands for). Who’s relationship with other world leaders, with the press, with other political leaders in the U.S., with fucking EVERYBODY is ALWAYS one of insult, of dismissal, of arrogance.
Maybe, JUST MAYBE some of the trumplings aren’t wearing MAGA hats in support of all the maga-in-chief’s bigotry… well, bunky, Mussolini didn’t really make the trains run on time, either.
(with appropriate apologies to Joni)
“I’ve looked at trump from ‘both sides’, too…
From intellectual and moral, he makes me spew…
I need a can of aerosol …
I still can’t stomach trump… at all.”
I don´t see them “making insulting gestures and comments referencing the person’s race”, which is kind of key here. Because if they do, yeah I agree it doesn´t matter so much if he walked up to them or the other way around. Admittedly I don´t know what the “tomahawk chop” is and who is supposed to be doing it. But most are just jumping up and down, as far as I can tell.
Also in the long video you can see the black israelites (with whom they have traded insults for some time) are still on the scene further back, so people yelling could be directing it at them.
I should stop here b/c I have already wasted too much time now. But please just explain what is the point of the question “Have you read any good book latly?”
@Yes? Just as a diversion I have been reading The God of the Witches by Margaret Murray. Interesting stuff, though I don’t know what the current opinions on her research are (the book came out in 1960).