By David Futrelle
Sorry I’ve been AWOL for a couple of days; I’ve been taking care of some personal stuff (nothing dramatic, just very time-consuming). But there’s so much going on in the world I thought I’d put up an open thread.
Talk about Trump’s shittiness, the shutdown, the dueling Fyre Festival documentaries, the blizzard here in the US, or maybe those snot-nosed racist high school students harassing Native American elder Nathan Phillips, a veteran conducting a ceremony to honor the war dead in DC
On that last point, here are some videos; watch only if you are ready to be enraged. The students, from a Catholic high school, were in DC for the “March for Life,” evidently ran into Phillips by chance, and decided to harass him for being Native American, I guess.
On a somewhat lighter note, there was the whole Ben Shapiro/Baby Hitler thing. Here are several , er, enhanced versions of his remarks at the March for Life on the classic time-travel quandary — “would you kill Hitler when he was a baby?”
Despite Ben’s qualms about killing baby Hitler, he doesn’t actually give a shit about babies and other civilians from enemy countries killed in wars.
In other news:
Speaking of crappy food:
From comments policy:
“No gratuitously nasty personal attacks”
While some of my comment were questions, I´m not yakking off in the meaning of hiding my real opinions. I do think media rushed to report this story without bothering to sort out the chain of events first and that at least most of the kids other than Sandmann were not necessarily trying to mock Phillips.
Oh dear, projection ftw … DesperateAmbrose needs to believe this in order to feel good about himself, apparently. He also appears to have forgotten that anyone can go and read that thread for themselves – that thread where, as Hippodameia rightly notes, he got his arse handed to him on a silver salver multiple times by multiple people. And which a great many of us were following at the time.
He’s getting a little desperate to have David ban him, so he can congratulate himself on having “won” … something.
@Desperate Ambrose
Wow, aren’t you the hero. Bravely disrupting “mutual appreciation societies”, because god forbid there are places where people are simply nice to each other. Proudly offering “perspective” on how the biggest patriarchal Moloch on the planet is not so bad. Amazingly keeping the myth alive that the Wehrmacht were not the same indoctrinated butchers that did shit like the “Sühnebefehl” and worse.
Perspective seems to be “being really, really charitable to the most monstrous institution in history because realty makes me unocomfy because they were loaded with white dudes like me”.
@New nazi apologist
It’s not gratuitous when you came in here to stan for fascists, old bean.
Well, that is for the admin to mark what level is permissible.
Are you really saying here that if someone has a MAGA hat (even a kid and the youngest ones look like they are not even teens – though that is not my main point) it is OK to claim whatever about him and it doesn´t matter if it is true or not?
In that case, well I strongly disagree (and I would definitely not have voted Trump if I was american I should clarify, even though I don´t like Hillary either).
@quisling POS
It is unquestionably true that they were a) wearing MAGA hats, which mark them out as fascist scum (they are all at least 14, being high school students, and the particular student under discussion is 16, easily old enough to know that being a fascist is wrong, (ETA) b)coming to Washington DC to march against women’s rights and c) harassing an old Indigenous man. These are unacceptable actions in any context, let alone the actual context of US history and current events. As you would understand perfectly well if you weren’t so busy sucking up to the heirs of Hitler and Davis. And Mosely, for that matter. You piece of shit.
You didn´t answer my question.
You didn’t explain why you’re so eager to find ‘context’ that would make what happened in that video ok. Or the other videos, none of which provide a ‘context’ where any of the three things I mentioned (all of which are, once again, clearly present in all videos of the occasion) that would excuse those nazi garbage. Because no such context exists. In the absence of such an explanation, Ockham’s Razor suggests that the most likely one is that you are yourself a nazi, but I have done you the courtesy of assuming you’re merely a spineless toad-eater for any bundle of privilege and bigotry that goose steps past you.
hapnadsmannen says:
You’re JAQing off in the sense that you’re playing the contrarian by asking a bunch of very “concerned” questions. I don’t give a flying fuck if you really do feel all contrary in your heart and it’s not just an act. (Also, you didn’t answer the question. Why are you JAQing off here if you don’t even know the commenting rules¹?)
Instead of getting pouty that no one here is giving the benefit of the doubt² to a pack of MAGA brats who were all too happy to protest abortion access, go put your array of wild suppositions to the test on your own. If there’s any substance to them, you can come back and show us the evidence.
…………
¹ I see it’s not your first time commenting here, though. You’ve stopped by to express your sympathy for incels in the past.
² Funny how you don’t think that Phillips deserves the same level of charity.
Well the first 2 things (being anti-abortion and supporting Trump), I don´t agree that alone means you deserve to be persecuted or harrassed just for holding and displaying those opinions. Apart from just being wrong on principle, I mean this is roughly |/3 of US population, or 1/2 of actual voters, you will never make progress by practically declaring war on a huge chunk of the population and say they have no right to manifest their opinions. That way you are never going to win over or win back Trump supporters and you also have no credibility when you demand freedom of persecution for yourself or people you sympatize with.
For point 3, that is where context makes a difference. Because the way it was reported, I´m not sure how many media outlets literally reported false information, but the impression you got certainly was that the catholic students came up to the indigenous protesters and surrounded them and started to chant. With that scenario, it is impossible to see the whole group as anything but aggressors.
But Phillips himself says this was not so, he and his groups walked up to the students where they stood. And then I think the interpretation of their actions, including all the students who just stood there laughing, filming and so on, is not so obvious.
To be fair, when I watched again, at 1 (and possibly 1 more) point someone can actually be heard yelling something like “build the wall”, but it is 1 (or possibly 2) person, not a “chant”.
Racism isn’t what you think is in your heart, it’s what you do. Trump is an open racist. Wearing a MAGA hat at worst makes you a proud white supremacist. At best it means you find racism tolerable. Which is effectively also racism. I mean, his family separation policy literally fits the UN definition of genocide. I just can’t see a non racist way to be a Trump supporter.
I’m also not eager to give any benefit of the doubt to someone who travelled a few hundred miles to march against the bodily autonomy of women.
If you’re eager for context, look at all the accounts coming in of the culture at that school. It seems to be hotbed of racism, homophobia, misogyny and bullying. The student body is overwhelmingly white. The faculty all white. The school is also expensive. There might be seem students on scholarship, but they are mostly affluent kids. Those innocent kids will be upper management, officials, judges and prosecutors in 10 years. Teaching them this behavior is acceptable now is going to cause later harm to the people they will have power over later.
Serious question: Is Dusty taking flak from other figures on left YouTube for his take on the situation, and is this his fans’ attempt at damage control? If so, why here of all places? And even if not, why here of all places?
Just because a third of the country are racist, doesn’t mean that racism is okay.
They are not being shamed for being Trump supporters. They are being shamed for harassing an elderly man of color. The MAGA hat is merely evidence of intent. As is the fact that they were there to show support for the removal of women’s bodily autonomy.
I don´t put forward false concerns, and I don´t make wild suppositions. I make my point openly: when you see the full chain of events, it is not at all clear that the kids (at least other than Sandmann and whoever can be heard in the background shouting about the wall, but that is also just 1 or 2 people) was doing any harrassment.
I don´t support the attitude of “never mind the exact facts b/c they were MAGA anyway”. We should not fall to the same level of MAGA false news factories, and specially not when it involves hanging out underage kids with no previous public activity for a huge internet audience.
I admit starting the discussion here was a bit of a test to see how people would react to contrarian information and views. Cult of Dusty really did prove that he has superior standards to the typical alt-right or alt-light Youtuber. The commenters here, not so much.
@Nazi Sympathiser
See, funny thing, nothing I ever do would ‘win over’ Trump supporters, because they think I’m an abomination and want me dead. Which also makes me not actually want to ‘win them over’, because they’re garbage people.
Ooh, there’s that good old false equivalency. I bet you’re gonna follow up with saying you have no idea how staggeringly bigoted it is to compare my desire to continue existing with their desire for me to die horribly.
So, in other words, the people who said you were JAQing off and here in bad faith from the beginning were right? I think I may die of the shock.
Two words: “tomahawk chop”
It is very clear from the video that they are harassing. The mob could’ve dispersed anytime. They chose to continue surrounding Phillips.
Anyway, if anyone likes their trolls more blatant, less concerned and both sidesy, the Jordan Peterson troll is back in the Majority report thread and he’s praised Camille Paglia.
And a test? Really? *rolls eyes* Yeah, what a shock, we reacted poorly to racism apologia. You sure got us!
Oh yes, and just in case you wonder why we so strongly associate MAGA with fascism, here’s a quick explainer, from the archives:
Donald Trump ticks all 14 boxes in Umberto Eco’s list of what makes a fascist a fascist
If you wish to don the apparel and symbols of a fascist movement, please be kind enough to own your behavior.
It’s also produced at least one rapist/repeat sex offender: https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/boone-county/burlington/former-covington-catholic-basketball-player-charged-with-rape-sodomy
hapnadsmannen says:
You put forth baseless concerns: “can we be sure the entire group is [confronting Phillips with hostility]?” “Did they really chant ‘build the wall’ at him?” “the media seem to have jumped on the story without checking the context very much first” and so on.
Then why are you only questioning what happened and qualifying your quibbles with words like “seems” and “probably” and “it’s not obvious”? Or making up “scenarios” instead of presenting any evidence for your idea of what happened?
No one’s saying that, you lying shit. If you can’t figure out what commenters do mean by bringing up the kids’ MAGA gear, you have no right to judge those commenters.
Uh huh. Except you forgot the actual info part, preferring supposition instead. And what info you have referred to is largely wrong, which doesn’t exactly lend your position credibility. You also haven’t bothered to figure out what other sources of information we’re working from. (A large amount of which “Admin” himself is sorting though on Twitter at this very moment.)
hapnadsmannen:
[Emphasis mine]
…there are still people who think that this is a relevant or useful thing to announce, unprompted?
Sorry for the repeat comment somehow I missed the comments directly below mine telling you how to do it. Thank you kupo and others because now I think I’ve seen four different people telling me how to do it.
I literally just got home half an hour ago I swear to God the MTA has gotten Beyond ridiculous. I was on the subway for 2 hours and 7 minutes! For people who know New York City it took me 2 hours and 7 minutes to get from 125th Street and Saint Nicholas Avenue down to 14th Street and Avenue A. Normally since you do have to make a transfer that would take about an hour in the middle of the night. But it was unbelievable the extent of the absurdity.
And the fact that Cuomo is still governor oh God I hate that man. OK, maybe hate is a touch harsh but seriously he couldn’t care less about the subway and buses not truly he pretends he does because it’s such a huge issue to voters in New York City but his privilege prevents him from first realizing how deeply important the subway is and second comprehending why. Obviously he can’t comprehend why if he doesn’t realize how important it is in the first place so essentially the MTA is probably going to be fucked for the next four years especially because he also can’t stand Bill de Blasio and does things just to spite him that end up actually hurting New Yorkers.
I’m so confused at how he got reelected because the people like my mother who voted for him couldn’t even express exactly why they did. If there is anyone here who does support and approve of Governor Cuomo I’d really appreciate if they could explain why. Because I think he is the epitome of the old type of democrat that isn’t truly Progressive they’re just slightly better than a Republican.
Like if I’m going to be fair he has done an acceptable job as governor but he does much more for the people upstate then he does for New York City. And I mean maybe this isn’t how it works I know nothing about economics and taxes and all that stuff, but isn’t it New York City the portion of the state that’s paying like 90% of the taxes so theoretically shouldn’t we get the most and the best stuff?
Like I thought I read somewhere that New York City literally pays something like twice as much in taxes as the rest of the entire state. Show doesn’t that mean we should get more benefits then the parts of the state that pay less than half as much or at least equal benefits. New York City seems to get the shitty end of the stick most of the time compared to the state unless it benefits the governor in some way.
I only started getting into politics when Trump won the Primary as I’ve stated before so if what I’m saying is completely ridiculous and ignorant nonsense please tell me but that’s how it seems to me it should work. Okay my mom left me a note of chores I have to do before I can sleep so I’m going to get to it but before I do sleep I’m going to see if I can actually do the picture thing if I can I will be so thrilled LOL.
You know that old saying I can’t remember it exactly right now I’m paraphrasing any complex enough science might as well be magic. That’s how a lot of this computer stuff is to me it really does feel like magic cuz I have absolutely no clue how it’s actually being accomplished I just know you press these buttons and poof cool shit happens. I mean that’s pretty fucking magical to me LOL.
Obviously I hope everyone has a lovely day and no one said anything in response to the second half of my earlier comment. I hope that means I was right and giving my particular circumstances aside from being harassed by manosphere assholes my email being all out in the open isn’t that dangerous cuz I have no identity to steal. No credit no bank account no nothing so I thought it wasn’t dangerous that’s why I posted it so openly. If my chores take too long and I don’t get a chance to come back everyone have a good day
I would never have questioned the dominant narrative if not for stumbling across Dustys video, but I have no idea if he is taking flak or not, and I feel no particular need to defend him, but it DID impress me that he cared about the truth even when it went against his ideology, so few people do this – a LITTLE bit more people on the left than on the right do, but even there they are so few. Why here I don´t know, I just like to argue where I know or suspect most people wont agree with me.
On the other hand now everyone that has responded has said something along the lines of “well they are nasty people anyway so it doesn´t matter what the truth is”. If you think like that I don´t know how to change it with arguments of principle, but think at least a little about how will this position look to someone on the middle ground that you try (or should try) to convince to your position.
Isn’t it curious how often “centrist” people come in here pretending to be neutral, and then end up tone-policing us and siding with the racists? You’d think, statistically speaking, that about half the time they’d come down on our side.
It’s almost as if these people never were neutral to begin with, and just want to perform “angry feminists are driving me to fascism! You leave me no choice but to put on a MAGA hat and start devaluing women!”
Kinda suggests your principles weren’t that rock solid to begin with, if a light breeze can blow them away.
As for the video and the mob, those kids drove eight hours for the sole purpose of denying women the right to exercise choice over what happens to her own body. The school put money, time, and effort into sponsoring a field trip to make women second class citizens. Tomahawk chopping, smirking, and chanting “build the wall” don’t look like attempts to defuse the situation. They come across as mockery and re-assertion of privilege.
These students have lawyers, PR people, money and the backing of the Church and the right-wing media. You’ll excuse me if I have trouble buying the ringleader’s Eddie Haskell act. In my lifetime I’ve seen far too many privileged white-boy bullies lying their asses off to the authorities about their intent. “Sir, we were only joking around.” “We were just trying to defuse things before they got worse.” They’re experts at twisting the narrative around so that they’re the real victims, and the person they’ve bullied becomes the troublemaker who started it all and now has the bad form to complain.