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alt-lite alt-right bad science Dunning–Kruger effect grandiosity imaginary oppression immigrants irony alert literal nazis men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny none dare call it conspiracy playing the victim racism Stefan Molyneux

Brain genius Stefan Molyneux wants you to know that the only real racism is racism against people who can’t help being so smart

Serious intellectual Stefan Molyneux DESTROYING you with LOGIC and REASON

By David Futrelle

Stephan Molyneux, the gabby YouTube “philosopher” whose racism is as overinflated as his ego, has been spouting nonsense about race and IQ for a long time. But over the last month or so he’s become so utterly obsessed with the subject he can barely go a day without posting some absurd new pronouncement on Twitter.

Molyneux is convinced that IQ differences between races are rooted in genetics and are more or less immutable. And that the refusal to acknowledge this truth — which is not in fact true, as I’ll get to in a minute — is causing incalculable damage to all of us, high IQ whities and low IQ non-whities alike, although Molyneux is most exercised about what he sees as the terrible bigotry faced by high IQ people (like, presumably, himself) for being the genetically superior people they can’t help but be.

Oh, and did I mention that he thinks “high IQ populations” — ie, white people in Western nations — are in danger of being swamped by brown and black dummies coming over the borders, or just staying home and causing troubles in their own low IQ countries? Because he thinks that, too.

But let’s start with his most basic assertion:

https://twitter.com/StefanMolyneux/status/1071116953538809856

Molyneux speaks with the confidence of a true expert, but he is not an expert on the subject, nor are his pronouncements true. Most of the actual scientists who study these issues think that views like the ones he holds are dangerous nonsense.

As noted by three psychologists who recently offered a detailed rebuttal to contemporary “scientific racism” in Vox,

the racial groups used in the US — white, black, Hispanic, Asian — are such a poor proxy for underlying genetic ancestry that no self-respecting statistical geneticist would undertake a study based only on self-identified racial category as a proxy for genetic ancestry measured from DNA. …

There is currently no reason at all to think that any significant portion of the IQ differences among socially defined racial groups is genetic in origin. …

Asserting that the relatively poorer intellectual performance of racial groups is based on their genes is mistaken theoretically and unfounded empirically; and given the consequences of promulgating the policies that follow from such assertions, it is egregiously wrong morally.

Moreover, the three scientists note, numerous studies have shown that IQ is not fixed. Overall intelligence in the United States, at least insofar as it can be measured on IQ tests, increased by 18 points from 1948-2002. (There is some concern that this increase, seen broadly around the world, may have begun to decline or reverse in recent years.) The gap between average white and black IQ in the US has narrowed dramatically. And programs like Head Start have helped to dramatically raise the reading levels and later educational success of poor children.

Molyneux handwaves away such objections. Like most modern “scientific racists” he’s not only convinced he’s not actually racist; he insists that he’s somehow fighting against racism. As he sees it, it’s those who don’t want to talk about race and IQ as if they’ve just walked out of a Klan meeting who are the real racists.

https://twitter.com/StefanMolyneux/status/1072879353438994432

https://twitter.com/StefanMolyneux/status/1081365013921583105

On more than one occasion, he’s self-righteously declared that he spreads what he sees as The Truth about race and IQ in order to … protect his daughter from accusations of racism?

https://twitter.com/StefanMolyneux/status/1076650065911902209

Piggybacking on the Trump administration’s demonization of Mexican and Muslim migrants, as well as on the alt-right’s racist hysteria about the alleged danger of “white genocide,” Molyneux claims that “high IQ” countries like the US and Canada and other mostly white countries in Europe are in danger of being overwhelmed by “low IQ” immigrants with darker skin.

https://twitter.com/StefanMolyneux/status/1071128003130744832

He also claims that the US is in danger of being undermined from within by our own brown-skinned “low IQ” citizens — some of whom even voted for Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez in the last elections!

https://twitter.com/StefanMolyneux/status/1071137393711804416

Even letting in relatively high-IQ people from low-IQ countries can come back to bite countries like the US, in Molyneux’s view.

https://twitter.com/StefanMolyneux/status/1055642346283401216

Molyneux has managed to convince himself that this racist garbage isn’t actually racist; he’s just using REASON and LOGIC to defeat the COMMUNIST MENACE.

https://twitter.com/StefanMolyneux/status/1079874553906524160

Ironically, while Molyneux thinks it’s terrible for “low-IQ populations” to come to “high-IQ countries,” he also thinks it’s pretty bad for them to remain in their own, because, he contends,”low IQ populations” can’t sustain democracy.

https://twitter.com/StefanMolyneux/status/1053324093808771072

Indeed, at one point he declared that hundreds of thousands of lives could have been saved in Iraq if those in the US who got us into the Iraq war had been willing to recognize that Iraq was full of stupid people.

https://twitter.com/StefanMolyneux/status/1082489068741513217

For what it’s worth, he also thinks that the housing crash was caused by a refusal to acknowledge that black and brown people are dumber than white people.

https://twitter.com/StefanMolyneux/status/1078868440826314752

He’s also convinced, weirdly, that “fiat currency” is going to somehow make us dumber — never mind that IQ in the US is up considerably since Nixon’s decision to take us off the gold standard in 1971. You’ll have to ask him to explain this one.

https://twitter.com/StefanMolyneux/status/1075992766436364288

Molyneux still claims, incredibly, that he’s not a white supremacist — noting that he acknowledges that the IQ scores of Jews and East Asians tend to be higher than (non-Jewish) white people. (Though the claims about Jewish IQ are now looking somewhat shaky.) But he certainly walks and quacks like a white supremacist.

https://twitter.com/StefanMolyneux/status/1082457646647500800

And he’s happy to repeat outrageously racist far-right conspiracy theories — like the idea that some nefarious group is pushing “propaganda” encouraging white women to hook up with black men.

https://twitter.com/StefanMolyneux/status/1077314912102297600

He similarly regurgitates the neo-Nazi talking point that blacks in South Africa are committing “white genocide” against white farmers; indeed, he’s obsessed with this imaginary crisis.

https://twitter.com/StefanMolyneux/status/1079121379994218496

https://twitter.com/StefanMolyneux/status/1077998063921184768

While Molyneux thinks that acknowledging the very real violence that racism inflicts, both figuratively and literally, upon people of color is itself racist, and just serves to make people of color get mad about problems that are really the result (and not the cause) of their lower average IQ scores, Molyneux does agree that one form of prejudice is very real and very damaging.

And that is the terrible prejudice against smarties.

https://twitter.com/StefanMolyneux/status/1082349279065235456

https://twitter.com/StefanMolyneux/status/1078914353657565185

Let’s pour one out for our high-IQ homies!

For more on the issue of race and IQ — and more specific rebuttals of the claims made by Molyneux and other “scientific racists” — see the Vox article I quoted from above, as well as this piece in the Guardian, which puts the recent revival of “race science” in broader perspective (and also handily rebuts Molyneux assertions about Jewish IQ). For an even more detailed history, see this long piece in the International Socialist Review.

And if you’re interested in some of the issues with IQ tests themselves, the eccentric statistician and randomness guru Nassim Nicholas Taleb was annoyed enough by some of Molyneux’s recent tweets on the subject that he wrote up a brief polemic on the subject. Here’s a less-technical look at some recent research suggesting that IQ tests are “fundamentally flawed” as a measure of actual intelligence.

UPDATE: I made a few small changes and removed a few tweets that were largely redundant.

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GrumpyOld SocialJusticeMangina
GrumpyOld SocialJusticeMangina
2 years ago

The thing about “IQ” and the beliefs that surround it is that it’s not some quaint early 20th century belief like the theory that space was filled with a mysterious substance called “ether.” It’s a piece of arrant quackery that is widely believed and causes immeasurable harm by its effect on public policy, by supporting viciously false opinions of white supremacists like Molyneux and Charles Murray and millions of less articulate believers in antiscience*. It is not some merely ridiculous belief; it has huge destructive real world consequences. You see that clearly in the immigration debates in the US.

It also has a terrible effect on my sentence structure. Oh, well. I really hate seeing this totally antiscientific crap promoted as The Truth That Dares Not Speak Its Name (according to Sam Harris).

I think it is an obligation for people who do well on IQ tests — which I suspect includes almost everyone at WHTM, with the possible exception of someone who has severe test anxiety — to try to debunk the whole thing at every reasonable opportunity. People who don’t do well on those tests can always be accused of sour grapes. It’s the duty of those of us to do well on them to try to expose what a (ridiculously) rigged game it is.

*There’s a particularly fallacious belief — somewhat more prevalent in the social sciences — that if you can come up with a number for something, that that number must mean something important — even if you don’t really have any idea what you’re actually measuring. That’s what you have with IQ. You are measuring something, but damned if anyone can say what it is.

LindsayIrene
LindsayIrene
2 years ago

Instead, I was frequently yelled at for not “living up to my potential”

Oh, god, yes. Every parent/teacher conference, my mother was told that very thing. And that I just wasn’t applying myself. I ended up spending most of my time at home holed up in the attic reading The Lord Of The Rings over and over again.

gallopingnopetopus
gallopingnopetopus
2 years ago

Is it me or is the “we should stop blaming [poor minorities] for being lazy [because they’re stupid]” particularly obnoxious? Did he pat himself on the back after coming up with that one?

Legit smart person problems: not “living up to your potential,” feeling alienated, or never having learned how to deal with hard work because school was easy.

Not actual smart person problems: people not instantly treating you like a superior being.

Jason D
Jason D
2 years ago

Uh, yes there is consensus about racial IQ and genetics but most scientists are too scared to breach the subject because of obvious PC-backlash reasons. And those who do come out and work on it are just destroyed by the PC machine.

Gaebolga
Gaebolga
2 years ago

Ah, the old “everybody knows my position is correct, but nobody will actually say it because the mean old lefties – who have controlled everything throughout recorded history, obviously – will say mean things about them and destroy their careers” claim.

That’s some Grade-A scientific rigor you’ve got going there, Jase-man. Obviously, you’ve got the data and articles to back up your claims…oh, wait: the conspiracy has made sure no such data or articles exist.

How terribly convenient for you.

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
2 years ago

@ Jason D:

There is a scientific consensus that the earth is flat, as well… but everyone is just afraid to say it.

There is NO “scientific consensus” regarding what “intelligence” even IS, and there IS a broad consensus that IQ tests merely reflect cultural learning.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
2 years ago

@ Jason

Uh, yes there is consensus about racial IQ and genetics but most scientists are too scared to breach the subject

How can you know there is a consensus if, on your assertion, scientists are too scared to even speak about the subject?

Gaebolga
Gaebolga
2 years ago

Alan Robertshaw wrote:

How can you know there is a consensus if, on your assertion, scientists are too scared to even speak about the subject?

The Jase-man knows, because he has rocked your Marxist little bubble with TROOFBOMS!

He’s got magic lobster powers, and you don’t, so how can you know there isn’t a consensus?

Huh?

HUH!!!?!???!???!???!???!

Chip Daniels
Chip Daniels
2 years ago

Even the unspoken assumption, that “group level IQ drives group level outcomes” is bullshit.

Where do we see this in action? Where is there a repeating pattern of higher IQ societies or nations having more success?

There isn’t one. At various times, the most successful nations have been in Egypt, China, India, Persia, Rome, and South America.

In other words, all the places which white supremacists consider inferior.

Until around the 16th century, Europe was what our president would call a “sh*thole country”.

This is why these guys always have to spout this Gish Gallop of sciency-sounding jargon and wave around links, because there isn’t any clear or obvious evidence of their thesis.

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
2 years ago

Aw, did Jason try to pipe up in here before he flounced? And I missed it? S’what I get for actually working I guess.

Lol

Yes, JD, there is a broad scientific consensus about genetics, race and IQ.

Unfortunately it isn’t what you would like it to be.

I’d cite sources, but we all know you aren’t gonna read those anyways.

Diego Duarte
Diego Duarte
2 years ago

Uh, yes there is consensus about racial IQ and genetics but most scientists are too scared to breach the subject because of obvious PC-backlash reasons. And those who do come out and work on it are just destroyed by the PC machine.

Even if we were to take at face value that racial IQ is a thing, despite all the scientific evidence to the contrary, you really want us to believe Whites are superior?

Specifically the ethnicity that, despite having more access to knowledge, resources and technology, overwhelmingly and almost exclusively makes up the demographic that still believes:

– Climate Change is a hoax.
– The Earth is flat.
– Vaccines do not work.
– Trickle down/Supply Side economics works, despite 40+ years of evidence pointing to the contrary.
– Jews are pushing “multiculturalism” in an attempt to destroy Western culture.

Not by a longshot. If racial IQ were a thing, you’d be at the very bottom of the barrel.

Eldridge the Cleaver
Eldridge the Cleaver
2 years ago

@ Jason D

Care to give us a link or two to some scientific source? Because ”my white male opinion” isn’t a source.

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
2 years ago

the conspiracy has made sure no such data or articles exist

This is like the “Get out Of Jail Free” card for the igno-right analysis….

Crip Dyke
2 years ago

@JasonD:

Why don’t you read something longer in form about why differences in mean IQ scores of racial groupings don’t necessarily indicate mean differences in the genetic contributions to IQ in those different groupings.

You could even start by reading me, over at my blog Pervert Justice, if you want something written by an actual WHTM commenter. I mention this because David has already provided numerous links above, yet you clearly haven’t absorbed any of that.

I’m not an expert like some of those authors cited at the end of the OP, but people tell me that the blog post I just linked as well as a couple of others were helpful in understanding why multiple confounds and their effect sizes lead to an inability to have any certainty about the contribution of genetics to the intergroup differences in mean racial IQ observed today.

But really, there was plenty enough information out there for you or even Steven Molyneux to reach to reach more accurate conclusions if only you had the wit to pay attention to the research.

An Impish Pepper
An Impish Pepper
2 years ago

LindsayIrene:

Being classed as ‘gifted’ didn’t help me much. It just meant that when undiagnosed inattentive-type ADD hit me at the same time as puberty and (also undiagnosed) bipolar disorder, my parents berated me constantly when my grades took a nosedive that they never recovered from. Because, as a gifted child, there was no excuse for me to not do well in school.

I think the same basic scenario happened to me in university. I still don’t fully know what happened because I never got formally diagnosed with anything in adulthood, but I’m fairly certain that the “crash” was a primarily a symptom rather than a cause of some sort of mental health decline. I had mostly really good grades in my first year, but it felt to me like I had barely managed to keep it together. I think my family, especially my parents, thought of autism as some sort of RPG-like stat min-max and couldn’t conceive of me doing badly in academics unless I had become addicted to something like computers and games.

What gets me the most about this stuff about “innate intelligence” and “potential” is when I look at really accomplished and “intelligent” people who managed to nurture fascinating interests and it turns out that they had a lot of support from their family. My own family certainly tried to nurture a variety of skills in me, but they also put a lot of effort into trying to contain my behaviour and make me more “normal,” and they never really committed to encouraging any interest in particular. The closest they got was to buy me an expensive trumpet and private lessons, which I used in high school band. Then the lessons were stopped and I ended up focusing on science courses to prepare for university.

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
2 years ago

https://splinternews.com/the-long-history-of-law-enforcements-support-for-white-1830333632

The truth is that what is a threat to marginalized people is not a threat to the police or to the social hierarchies they are sworn to uphold.

Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
2 years ago

I never did any IQ test and I don’t plan to either so I don’t know if I will do good or not. But I hate puzzles and bullshit like that so probably i won’t do very good.

Catalpa
Catalpa
2 years ago

Well of course, we were so poor we could only afford an IQ scale that went up to 80.

You had a scale? Luxury!

At least you had the IQ part! We were so poor we couldn’t even afford the Q! All we had was I! And that was only after working 20 hours in the mines daily!

Bina
2 years ago

Stefan Food-Processor isn’t a high-IQ anything. He’s just an elaborately stupid person who thinks he’s the Great Gazoo.

Bina
2 years ago

Took my daughter to see my old graduate school desk in the University of Toronto Library, couldn’t help but notice the almost complete absence of white males in the entire building.

I’ll take “Cool Story, Bro” for $1000, Alex.

Also, I’ll bet the poor little dear was bored stiff and rolling her eyes in disgust at her ranting jackass of a father, when she wasn’t trying desperately to pretend that she wasn’t actually with him.

dashapants
dashapants
2 years ago

Now, now, he is right about one thing. There is definitely bigotry against intelligence, just not the kind he imagines.

For example, an alarmingly significant percentage of the US population doesn’t “believe” in global warming (as if belief were actually necessary to acknowledge an extensively-documented fact) and exhibits extreme wariness and vociferous scorn towards any person suspected of “book lernin’.”

Viscaria
Viscaria
2 years ago

@Bina

Also, I’ll bet the poor little dear was bored stiff and rolling her eyes in disgust at her ranting jackass of a father, when she wasn’t trying desperately to pretend that she wasn’t actually with him.

I always feel so bad for these jackasses’ kids when they have them. Especially the daughters.

Re: Gifted and talented education

I was in gifted and talented ed as a sprog, and I have extremely mixed feelings about it as an adult. I am definitely aware these days that a lot of my “natural potential” was not so innate after all, but was a product of wealth and whiteness and secure housing and good nutrition and highly educated parents.

Edit: also I took an IQ test a couple of years ago (for frustrating funding related reasons) and I had gone down more than a standard deviation since junior highXD but yeah, IQ is a constant and predictive measure, sure okay.

Bina
2 years ago

@dashapants:

Now, now, he is right about one thing. There is definitely bigotry against intelligence, just not the kind he imagines.

For example, an alarmingly significant percentage of the US population doesn’t “believe” in global warming (as if belief were actually necessary to acknowledge an extensively-documented fact) and exhibits extreme wariness and vociferous scorn towards any person suspected of “book lernin’.”

Now THERE is a truthbomb.

I’ll add that the adherents of Peterson, Molyneux, etc. are also bigoted against real intelligence, in that they refuse to read or consider anything which proves their theories and hypotheses to be not only outmoded, but LONG outmoded, and thus dead wrong. They seem to think that there’s some kind of grand cycle at work whereby the old and discredited will rise to the top of the heap again, and the increasing preponderance of evidence to the contrary just makes them bilious and pissy. No, fellas, phrenology ISN’T coming back. Now stop trying to make “fetch” happen.

Re: IQ testing and the like: I was always a smart little squirt — was reading before I was old enough to remember how I learned to. I can only remember back to age 4 or 5, so that probably means I was doing so, at least rudimentarily, by the time I was 3. Nobody remembers teaching me to do it, either — I seem to have just picked it up along the way, as I still tend to do today, by some kind of mental osmosis.

But since there were no gifted programs in the public schools I attended (thanks, rural and northern Ontario!), there was no place for my juvenile grey matter to go that wasn’t stultifying and boring. In fact, my kindergarten teacher initially thought I was the r-word because I wasn’t singing the ABC song with the rest of the class. The truth was, I’d heard it a bazillion times on Sesame Street, knew it off by heart, and wasn’t singing because I was bored of it! So my scared immigrant parents were called in and I nearly landed in Special Ed…until the poor teacher was informed that I already knew how to read and everything, and was just quiet by nature. So quiet, in fact, that I didn’t have the heart to tell her that I was reading in two languages already and didn’t need that babyish ABC song to tell me how.

Fast forward to me at 19, in my first year of university (and me the first person in my entire family to go, ever). I decided to try out for Mensa, and was accepted on the grounds that my SCAT-II score was 99th percentile. Attended a few meetings; wasn’t much impressed by the company, especially the leering dudes. Stayed a member for the sake of receiving the newsletter until sometime after graduation, when a sudden more-than-doubling of the dues convinced me that the smartest thing THIS now-former Mensan could do was just let my membership lapse and gain some real-world perspective. Which in my case meant understanding that being a good test-taker isn’t really a measure of anything, nor predictive of how one’s life is likely to go. There are bright people in all walks, as my definitely-not-stupid, but never-went-to-uni parents proved to me long ago.

And if anyone wants proof that intelligence and income aren’t necessarily in direct proportion either, just look at the current squatter in the White House. I’m not convinced that he’s even fully literate, and he’s what? Over 70? Dang, dude. Sure must be nice to be a racist millionaire slumlord’s brat.

GrumpyOld SocialJusticeMangina
GrumpyOld SocialJusticeMangina
2 years ago

I’m convinced that Trump is dyslexic. I’m a year younger, and I can’t recall hearing about dyslexia until I was grown up. If you couldn’t learn to read with everyone else, you were just stupid — there was no treatment for dyslexics except being placed in the “special class.” So Trump learned to fake it. There’s an episode of Quincy, the old TV show, about a man who starts a fire that burns down a factory and kills a co-worker because he can’t read the label on a container (someone put gasoline in a container that some cleaning liquid came in and put on a makeshift label, which the guy can’t read, so by habit he relies on the nature of the container).

The problem is, of course, if you can’t acquire information by the written word, you have to devise a lot of workarounds that don’t require you to admit that you can’t read. (Obviously he can read from a teleprompter, and he can probably read papers, it’s just that the effort of recognizing the words make it difficult for him to comprehend the ideas they are trying to convey.) That’s why he loves his word-salad rants rather than prepared speeches, loves very simple papers with visual aids, and depends on Fox to tell him what all those articles are saying. The telling thing was that he didn’t get what Mattis was saying about him in his resignation letter until Fox read it to him. ()I doubt that any of his minions would dare read it to him and explain what Mattis was saying.)

Trump is in a job where the ability to process vast amounts of information is critical, but his ability is very weak, and the workarounds he’s developed over a lifetime are simply too kludgy to work in his present job. I don’t think you can overestimate the influence dyslexia has had on his personality over the years.

Dalillama
Dalillama
2 years ago

Internet diagnosing dyslexia is om the same level as internet diagnosing mental illness. Don’t do that.

Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
2 years ago

In my school most of my friends were intelligent and definaltey received benefits from this and each was in at least one gifted or talented program. because I was separated from them because of behavior issues in my languages class, I was not allowed to learn German, and I was in a special class with only 5 other people learning French, and it really sucked watching my friends go away with the fun class together and the fun teacher and knowing that they were allowed to learn 2 languages but because of one teacher descison i was denied this opportunity.

But my “gifted and talented” friends also had a lot of pressure on them, to perform well, and they were all very competitive and they liked to drag eachother down if one person didn’t perfom so good in a class. but I was not aware of this until after we left school and I was talking with my friend who told me how much this ruined school for him.

but because I was separated I never knew, and I guess they didn’t involve me in the competition because there was no competition from me. 🤷

When we were older and doing more advanced classes and I was in a literature class with my friends, one of them was so personally offended to discover I wasn’t as stupid as he thought! and really took insult when the teacher liked what I said, and my friend always checked my essay and homework to make sure he was still better than me on paper🙃

it’s totally madness to separate children like that and encourage them to compete and feel superior or inferior based on what a few teachers think. Especially because in my schools the benefits of the gifted programs clearly can help all students and should be accessible to all, at least for something like extra-curricular not something you only get access unless you are “chosen”.

Podkayne Lives
Podkayne Lives
2 years ago

Speaking as a member of a group (Jews) who were believed by the likes of this guy at the time my great-grandparents immigrated to be of extremely low intelligence–40% of us were determined to be ‘feebleminded’–and who are now believed by the likes of this guy to be of almost fiendish intelligence–I feel empowered to say ‘this is some racist bullshit’.

(I suspect that I am not notably smarter than my great-grandfather, who spoke four languages, survived the Russian Revolution and the First World War, and was a bissel Talmud scholar.)

Catalpa
Catalpa
2 years ago

@ Valentin

But I discussed with some friends and they pointed out that it seems more that because I wasn’t developing in a way similar to other children, that they decided that there was something wrong with me and therefore treated me like I’m stupid. I spent most of my life feeling like I was stupid and behind my friends because of this. But it makes sense for example, that it seems like I couldn’t read when they were giving me books which were embarrassing and insulting to me because they were much lower level – maybe it was that I wasn’t interested. Because when I was 12 my friend gave me a gift of a book and this one was interesting to me – and I read it.

I still read slowly, more than my friends and family – but I can do it, and I just select what books I want to read carefully so that I know I don’t waste the long time it will take me to read it

I’m sorry that you were made to feel like that.

And I mean, you read the (often very wordy) comments here and write thoughtful and engaging responses frequently, and this is all in a language that isn’t your native one. I’d say that’s some pretty damn impressive literate skills. Definitely miles better than anything I could do in a language that wasn’t English (my first language). Be proud of your accomplishments and your progress!

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
2 years ago

@Bina:

Stefan Food-Processor isn’t a high-IQ anything. He’s just an elaborately stupid person who thinks he’s the Great Gazoo.

Food-Processor? I had been thinking Operating-System. You know, HP-UX, Linux, Molyneux. 🙂

Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
2 years ago

@catlapa

thanks, I have a bit of a complex about it so my brain naturally looks for evidence to support my belief that I am stupid, even if there is no evidence there! So I am trying to learn a new habit of positivity and objectives. It was funny also because the friend who made me feel most slow, who read so fast, I met him again some years later and even though I didn’t read any of the books he read, at that time we were both reading the same book at the same time, so i guess I didn’t miss anything really 🤷

Jane Done
Jane Done
2 years ago

“Gifted” is a bad name for it, for sure. I definitely get why people think it’s discriminatory, but I think the best way to think of why those programs exist is that they provide extra stimulation for children who are so bored in the class their age has them in that it is actively disadvantageous to their development

As a child, I consistently read books 2, 3 and even 4 grades above mine in elementary school. I was even placed in an advanced program once.

Once.

I was immediately removed and never got the chance again. The reason? I was viciously bullied non-stop for all 9 years of primary school and none of my classmates wanted to associate with me for fear of being targeted. It was of course spun as “doesn’t work well with others”.

I probably would’ve been one of those bored kids if I wasn’t terrified every day to the point of suicidal for nearly a decade. So while the idea is good in concept, privilege remains very much a factor.

Jane Done
Jane Done
2 years ago

@Katamount:

why women can’t be infantry soldiers or starship captains or somesuch crap: “If you don’t acknowledge that men and women have different morphologies, you’re the real sexist!”

Except when it comes to crimes of violence. Y’know, a physical act that threatens the safety of society, and that threat level being dependent on a person’s physical capacity.

In THAT case, women and men magically transform into being exactly physically identical and should be punished equally!!

A little OT, but one of my personal favourite rightwingnut talking points is how many times studies have been published examining the differences between the sexes in sports and claim that hormones have ‘very little’ to do with it. Not even lying, one such study even claimed that body-fat and muscle mass had weak correlation, and concluded that the primary scientific reason for women being generally weaker was “woman-ness”.

But of course, the vagueness is the point. By fabricating an ethereal, unquantifiable essence it creates a sense of immutability, the unchangeable fact that men will always be superior, no matter what. In reality, a woman could theoretically just take a pill and be stronger than most all men, but that hurts the poor menz fweelings.

Jane Done
Jane Done
2 years ago

@Surplus to Requirements

Molyneux doesn’t even have a fraction of the amount of logical foundation to build an entire operating system. That requires multiple layers of complexity and a cohesive overarching vision with consistent communication.

Molyneux would be the brand name of one of those b&w lcd keychain neopets knockoffs from the 90s, an overglorified calculator.
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Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
2 years ago

@Jane Done:

Molyneux doesn’t even have a fraction of the amount of logical foundation to build an entire operating system.

Neither did HP-UX, but since when has that ever stopped anyone?

(snicker)

See also: http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/H/HP-SUX.html

Shadowplay
2 years ago

@Valentine

So I am trying to learn a new habit of positivity and objectives. It was funny also because the friend who made me feel most slow, who read so fast …

Don’t like seeing people I like hurting, so tell you something I don’t often tell. I was “taught” speed reading as a kid. There’s minimal pleasure in reading, ever since. Yes, I take in information fast. I don’t get to savor the language. To take time over a bit of prose and roll it around my tongue. Poetry – which I loved reading even as a youngish child – is just more words. Something designed for expression at about 70 words per minute loses all semblance of meaning at 300.

There’s no off switch.

You read slowly. Means you read carefully. And you get more pleasure and meaning from one good book than I would from a library. So it’s not all bad, OK?

opposablethumbs
opposablethumbs
2 years ago

I dunno, he does kind of recall the old Moulinex grater we had when I was a kid – looks comfortingly familiar (superficially plausible if you’re looking to hear confirmation of what you already believe), but is actually clumsy, inefficient and a bugger to clean after use. Though the old Moulinex is still considerably more useful and versatile than Molyneux, of course.
Also, rusty and tends to accumulate bits of mouldy cheese around the edges.
Um, that simile does leave rather a lot to be desired. Much like Molyneux, in fact. Sorry.
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Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
2 years ago

@shadowplay

one of my other friends learned speed reading, so he can read the Harry potter books the first from all of our friends. 😅 I always wondered how it works and my suspicious is what you said, that some of the data and information will get missed. I generally prefer poetry which is maybe because I read slowly and I enjoy the nature of the words(?) I don’t know. But I also like factual books about history and politics so maybe fiction books are not really my main interest. I still tried to read all of the popular and traditional books – I was trying now since I was 16 to finish Master and Margarita but I always reach half way and then I can’t continue. I don’t know why! Lots of my friends and family like that book and the adaptions, and I can see why, because the first half is fun and cool…but I will never know what happens at the end it seems. In fact, this happens to me with a lot of books, I read most of them or at least to half and then I just can’t continue…

I read Idiot by Dostoyevsky though, this was my greatest achievement because I was sick so I read it in one week because I had no other things to do, which I still don’t know how I achieved that! I tried to read it again recently and when I reached the first monologue I just thought “no one has time for this!” 😂

Chris Oakley
2 years ago

@Jason D: Go home, Jason, you’re drunk.

@LindsayIrene: Holy mackerel…I’m amazed you survived your childhood. You deserve a medal for putting up with all that flak.

Karalora
Karalora
2 years ago

This may not be entirely on-topic (ironically enough), but I cannot stand Molyneux’s delivery. He says everything with this affected arrhythmic speech pattern that just grates. Is he attempting to sound posh?

Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
2 years ago

Karalora,

I don’t know what you mean by sounding posh because I am not sure what that sounds like – but I also hate the way he speaks, it is very arrogant, like he thinks he knows everyhting and is better than the person or the thing that he is criticising. And it sounds like he expects always to be right and considers everything he says is a fact and that he is SO INTELLIGENT. There are not many people that make me too angry even to watch them, but Molyneux is such a massive arrogant butthole that I just can’t tolerate him. I want to say more but I don’t want to violate the comment policy. But fuck Stefan Molyneux.

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
2 years ago

Here I am being a jerk. Hello @Chip Daniels, are you new here? I don’t recognize you and I’d like to think I wouldn’t forget such sharp and snappy commentary! Welcome, pull up a chair (they’re all hard), light a candle (they’re all scented), and enjoy the scent of misandry.

And if you *aren’t* new, well, hello anyways!

Moon_custafer
Moon_custafer
2 years ago

@ Valentin:

I was trying now since I was 16 to finish Master and Margarita but I always reach half way and then I can’t continue. I don’t know why! Lots of my friends and family like that book and the adaptions, and I can see why, because the first half is fun and cool…but I will never know what happens at the end it seems.

I can certainly recommend giving it another go (especially since the title characters don’t even really show up until the midway point of the book).

In fact, this happens to me with a lot of books, I read most of them or at least to half and then I just can’t continue…

This often happens to me – I think some authors just take a while to get the story started, and also sometimes I’m scared to start a new book in case I don’t enjoy it. Sometimes I can get around this by starting in the middle and just trying to figure out what’s going on.
(I did this accidentally with Watership Down as a kid – picked it up, mistaking it for another book I’d been reading. It was a few sentences before I noticed the characters were all different, and another page or so before I figured out they were rabbits.)

Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
2 years ago

@mooncustafer

I think I reached the part where Margarita is flying naked on the broomstick. Then I don’t know, I just stopped reading it! I actually finished one book last year, I, Claudius which I enjoyed more than I expected because I always think the Romans are really boring. But it is written quite simply and it’s quite short and the plot movies fast. But then I started to read a *very big* book about the Romanov dynasty which was a gift from my mum…and oh my god I will never finish that!

Sometimes I can get around this by starting in the middle and just trying to figure out what’s going on.

I think I will try this. People always seem to give me books for gifts and I feel guilty that I never read them, so maybe this technique will give me a chance to at least get something.

sometimes I’m scared to start a new book in case I don’t enjoy it.

This is my same fear too, because reading slowly means that starting a book needs a lot of time and I want to make sure I am giving my time for something I will enjoy and which will be a benefit for me. I have two books with me right now to read: a book about Ukranian history “Gates of Europe” by Serhii Plokhy and Claudius the God, which is the sequel to I, Claudius. I was in board now for more than 5 weeks and I didn’t read a single word of them 😅 Well that is not 100% true, I started to read Gates of Europe in October 2017 and then…guess what?…I stopped half way!

Tovius
2 years ago

@Valentin

I don’t know what you mean by sounding posh because I am not sure what that sounds like – but I also hate the way he speaks, it is very arrogant, like he thinks he knows everyhting and is better than the person or the thing that he is criticising. And it sounds like he expects always to be right and considers everything he says is a fact and that he is SO INTELLIGENT.

That’s pretty much what posh means, usually with the added implication of being rich, or pretending to be rich.

Karalora
Karalora
2 years ago

Posh isn’t just rich, it’s old money rich. And it often comes with particular affectations of speech, and that’s what Molyneux’s weird habit of beginning a sentence with about fifteen syllables crammed into the space of a couple seconds, and then sort of coasting the rest of the sentence, reminds me of.

opposablethumbs
opposablethumbs
2 years ago

Posh isn’t just rich, it’s old money rich. And it often comes with particular affectations of speech,

Exactly. And this is precisely why our very own home-grown piece-of-utter-shit hedge-fund-manipulating all-exploitation-all-the-time anti-women’s-rights spit-on-the-disadvantaged ultra-right-wing tory politician Jacob Rees-Mogg (who is not in fact from “old money”) gets such mileage out of his affected speech patterns. He dresses, acts and above all speaks like a mild-mannered toff, and a remarkable proportion of press and people love it so much they don’t care what he actually stands for (his own enrichment, and nothing else. And fuck [over] everybody who is not J R-M, especially the poor).

Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Intergalactic Meanie
Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Intergalactic Meanie
2 years ago

@Valentin,

Would you be interested in something like books on tape for your reading pleasures? Basically they’re books read by someone – sometimes the author, sometimes an actor – and you can listen to them in pretty much the same ways you can listen to a podcast. Perhaps that might be a solution for you?

Or would watching a good dramatization help with getting you past the halfway hump? If someone in your circles know of a good adaptation of a written work you’re struggling with, that can be a way to get the gist of the book’s story.

And speaking of adaptations, the US TV show Masterpiece Theatre had a terrific adaptation of I, Claudius a few decades back. I don’t know if it’s been made available anywhere, but if you can track down a copy, it would be worth it, I think.

Virgin Mary
Virgin Mary
2 years ago

I was supposed to be a gifted child and was ranked in the top 1 percentile as a kid, whatever that means. Getting branded as ‘gifted’ stirred up a lot of resentment from both kids and teachers, and I think a lot of it was gendered, unfortunately. I liked to believe we lived in a progressive society and it would be no hindrance to me, but in fact the schools saw no point putting me on gifted children’s programs which were for nearly all male students. My parents were religious fundies and only expected me to marry and have kids anyway. I did not know that I was trans then, of course, but I did feel something was wrong. Mum always made the argument that I should because I ‘could pass my brains’ on to my son. I’m sure it doesn’t work like that, and anyway, you can’t live vicariously through your kids 🙁

Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
2 years ago

@Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Intergalactic Meanie

I don’t really like audio books or books on a tape. I listened to them when I was a child but I don’t really like to listen to them now. My gf likes them and she listens when she is working or making house chores, but I prefer music if I will listen to anything. Also, even though I struggle to read quickly and complete books I enjoy reading, quietly and seeing the words on the page and it also means I can take the time that I want.

I like adaption but I prefer to watch them only after I read the book, and even if they are good they never seem to be as good as the book. For example, after I read Idiot I watched the Russian adaption, it is very good and very accurate, compared to other adaption but I still think the book is better. And for the books that I didn’t finish but want to finish I don’t want to ruin my imagine of the characters by the interpretation of someone else.

But I am excited to find an adaption of I, Claudius. I know there is a British one made for television with episodes but I forgot to try and find it when I was home. But maybe it will be good if I try to read Claudius the God first anyway.

Hambeast
Hambeast
2 years ago

GrumpyOld SocialJusticeMangina said

I favor a useful term of technical psychology to characterize argument like Molyneux’s: Hogwash. But I do think this is a topic that helps one to determine whether someone is doing real thinking or merely indulging in motivated reasoning.

Motivated reasoning? I had a lot of it until I discovered the internets. I had my first IQ test at the age of 5, just before I started kindergarten, second test in third grade, third in tenth grade. All telling my parents (and me) that I was smarter than the average kid. Got me into the gifted program in elementary school. There was no program in high school, but the test proctor admitted that the school got more funding per capita for gifted students. Umm, glad I could help?

Only at the end of page one and I’ve deleted a bunch of quotes and replies, so I’ll just move on to the tl;dr:

1. I’ve always been good at taking tests.

2. I’ve learned from the internets that I’m not *nearly* as smart as I’ve been told I am all my life.

3. I’m not sad about this because there are loads of really amazing people on the internet (and meatspace) to learn things from. This is one of my favorite learning spaces!

On to page two (after I feed the kitty boys)