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Weirdo black conspiracy theorist hates Bird Box because “no good-looking brother would want a pregnant, pale, pig-nose beast like Sandra Bullock.” And that’s just the beginning.

Sandra Bullock and Trevante Rhodes in Bird Box

By David Futrelle

It isn’t just the white supremacists who are mad about Bird Box. No, it turns out that at least one black supremacist has some big problems with the Netflix post-apocalyptic horror hit as well. And his issues with the film are even weirder than theirs.

Some white supremacists are taking aim at Bird Box, as I noted in a recent post, because they think the film — whose most heroic figures are a white women and a black man — is some sort of SJW propaganda designed to denigrate the straight white male.

But the black conspiracy theorist behind the virulently anti-white and anti-Semitic Race Rules blog is angry at the film because he doesn’t think the handsome black hero of the film would really be into “preggo over-the-hill skank Sandra Bullock” who “looks like a damn tr***y.”

Mr. Race Rules starts off by noting that he doesn’t like “race-mixing” in movies because there really is no such thing in the real world.  Strap yourself in here, folks, because this is where things start to get really weird. “[T]he so-called races are actually different species,” he writes.

Blacks are the only humans and everyone else are all animal humanoid hybrids or what I call manimals.

And even though Sandra Bullock’s self-sacrificing boyfriend in the film, played by Trevante Rhodes, presumably doesn’t believe that white people are literal “manimals,” Mr. Race Rules still doesn’t believe that “someone as good looking as that brother” would want anything to do with

a pregnant, pale, curveless, pig-nose beast like Sandra Bullock in real life … Black men that are attractive rarely go after skanks unless  they have been hurt by black women, they are drunk or high or just goddamn brainwashed to fuck manimal bitches for some reason like porn.

Love that he manages to blame black women for what he sees as Rhodes’ poor romantic choice. Weird how dudes who rail against the alleged evils of white women — regardless of their own race or political views — almost always seem to hate black women at least as much, if not more.

Mr. Race Rules is also annoyed that Rhodes’ character turns out to be what today’s white supremacists would call a cuck — raising kids fathered by men of a different race. Sorry, species.

To make matters worse the dumb ass nigga was going to be raising two white kids with a white woman as a black man. What the fuck is that? Reverse reparations?!?!? I’ll never take care of some white bastard kid. She didn’t even want them herself just like most white females who always pretend to love their kids. Ain’t buyin’ it. White females are full of shit…..literally and figuratively.

Despite the much-discussed diversity of the Bird Box cast of main characters, there are no black women in roles more prominent than “Woman in Entryway.” Mr. Race Rules thinks he knows why.

“Did anyone notice this one last very important thing?!?!?” he asks.

NO BLACK WOMEN!!!!!!! That was no fucking accident. The elite worship the black woman. It is their doorway to the future through the black womb since pinkazoids are all dying out….much of it from their own compulsive self-extermination.

Wat.

They never want to disrespect the black womb-man too much on the big screen because they know where we all come from. There’s no problem slaughtering and incarcerating record numbers of black and Latino males but they have to protect the black womb to ensure their genetic future for now. Most black females still don’t get it. Once the manimals get what they need from you….YOU’RE DEAD!!!!!!!!!!!

Just FYI, black “females!”

But Mr. Race Rules’ theories about white manimals and black womb-men aren’t even the weirdest part of his, er, review of Bird Box. No, that honor has to go to his discussion of “falcon Heru the Hero.” Who, you ask? Let’s let him, er, explain:

The movie had a few interpretations as far as I could see with my 3rd eye partially open. One is the blind fold was blinding the pineal gland showing how everyone is really unconscious these days from all the poison and brainwashing. Second the bird box (B+B=2+2=22+Master Builder) showed how the falcon Heru the Hero is actually being held in a box or this Matrix and keeping his 3rd eye (really 1st eye) from awakening by the parasitic elite and their minions using light-bending technology to prevent the light code frequencies from returning through our ancestors.

Okey dokey then.

For a little context: Heru is another name for the falcon-headed Egyptian god Horus, and is apparently a major part of the esoteric conspiracy theories that Mr. Race Rules and a number of other similar theorists espouse. But I haven’t looked into the details of this yet, because my poor brain has already been taxed enough for one day, and I suspect that now yours has been as well.

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Katie kitten420
Katie kitten420
1 year ago

Okay if that’s actually what everyone believes I just commented for years friendly and nice and then all of a sudden I just decided to be a troll like I don’t even know what to say to that. It really doesn’t sound ridiculous to anyone else? Okay apparently because I got obsessed with something and got upset and I have poor social skills so I’m not good at telling when people are upset unless they say so which nobody did until I said I didn’t know.

Please define being a troll. Because at this point I honestly just feel people are knee jerking. Like I did with Valkyrie I am perfectly happy to explain any aspect of what I said but no people would rather choose to insult me and say I’m lying and being a troll. I don’t see how that benefits them me or the community and I don’t see how it is open-minded or Progressive but if that is how everyone feels I’m obviously don’t fit in here it’s not a case of good bad moral immoral.

I just think it’s literally absurd that I would come in here on and off for literally like what almost half a decade I think my first comment was in 2015 maybe even 2014 I’m not sure but all of a sudden I just decided to be a troll now? That seriously doesn’t sound ridiculous to anyone but me?

Katie kitten420
Katie kitten420
1 year ago

Oh and I missed something Kupo. I don’t think you’re being misogynist. I don’t think anyone is being misogynist because they are ignoring my personal statements and saying the motives I am claiming are not my actual motives. I’m saying it’s ironic that people here are always talking about how important it is to listen and believe people about their direct lived experiences but apparently not when it diverges from the party line

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Katie,

Only one person actually called you a troll. Not multiple people.

FWIW, I don’t think you’re a troll but you are engaging in some of the tactics that trolls engage in. Like asking the same question over and over without fully addressing the people who already answered. Or focusing on tone instead of on the issues being discussed. Or misrepresenting what other’s positions are. Or keeping the focus on you and your feelings, rather than the issues. In an internet argument, those things are bound to be interpreted by some people as trolling. But since you’ve been here a while, you know how we treat trolls and you have to realize you’re not getting the troll treatment at all.

But setting aside all that for a moment, you say that you don’t want an apology and you don’t want to make people agree with you, what exactly do you want? Is it just to learn? If so, what have you done to educate yourself outside of this site? Do you think that the approach you’ve taken to learn on this site has been successful? If not, why not? What do you think could have made the discussions here go better?

I’d say that if learning is truly your goal, rather than fighting, you need to focus less on your feelings, our tones, and on defending yourself and your mother and more on figuring out what you still need clarification on and reread the material in the thread to see if the answers are already there. No one is saying to be emotionless, just don’t continue to make the discussion the Katie and her feelings show. Make it about the issues at hand.

You’ve gotten lots of advice about where to go for information and how to talk about this issue without it becoming a shitshow. Please take all the help offered.

Catalpa
Catalpa
1 year ago

Question. What was the point of posting this lovely guilt trip in your first post on this thread, if not to get people to apologize and promise to treat you nicer?

The community on this site help me learn so many things. But nowadays if that’s the type of response I’m going to get when I asked a question about something I’m totally ignorant about then I’m too scared to ask it. It makes me very sad cuz this site help me so much no one used to be like that. Oh my God I’m tearing up now, I truly miss that.

Also, I’m getting really effing sick of you whining about how we’re all ascribing malicious intent to your actions and claiming that we can read your mind. No one claimed to do that. We’re merely describing the way in which your actions come across to us.

You have, over the course of this thread, accused me of maliciously mocking your senior citizen mother and of claiming that she is just as bad as the people who bomb abortion clinics. Neither of which was true, but I didn’t have a temper tantrum about it. I didn’t claim that you were saying you could read my mind. I didn’t start listing out the axes of privilege that I am disadvantaged on as if those were relevant to the topic of abortion in general.

I’ve done my utmost to be clear, informative, and patient in educating you on a topic that is extremely upsetting for me. I did it because it is important to refute pro-life rhetoric and because I did truly want to help you understand.

Seems like that was pointless, though. Maybe some lurkers got something of value from it.

Catalpa
Catalpa
1 year ago

Also, you want a definition of troll? Here’s one from Wikipedia:

In Internet slang, a troll is a person who starts quarrels or upsets people on the Internet to distract and sow discord by posting inflammatory and digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses and normalizing tangential discussion, whether for the troll’s amusement or a specific gain.

Inflammatory? Check.
Off topic? Check.
Trying to normalize the discussion of pro-life being sometimes positive? Check.
Specific gain? Well, that’s a little more murky, but it sure seems like you have the goal of getting us to admit that there are some admirable pro-lifers.

I’m not claiming you are a troll. But your current behaviour seems to line up with the definition.

(Also, spending posts and posts talking about how upset you are, how terrible this is making you feel, how mean we all are, and then losing it whenever any of us expresses any anger or upset about the topic, like being emotional somehow negates our points, that is pretty troll-ish behaviour as well.)

Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
1 year ago

Omg wwth and catalpa and kupo nailed it.

What Katie should do in her next post

Katie, instead of replying with hurt feelings, saying the same thing again and again, i want you to have a list of questions that we can answer.

Look over your last posts, *what questions have you asked*?

Write those down, bullet form, in one post. Then, in another, you can tell us how upset you are.

I think it boils down to this: “why is calling yourself pro-life hurtful?”

As to why someone might think you are fishing for a specific answer…

We have already told you why this position is hurtful, and you don’t acknowledge previous replies, but keep asking the same question again and again.

What this conversation feels like, on our end.

You have never replied to *specific* things i have asked you. It’s like we aren’t having a conversation at all. Here is what it feels like

You: “why is calling someone themselves pro-life bad?”
Us: “because it gives cover to the violent ones, and makes it socially acceptable to deny us our right to bodily integrity. Here are stories about how the attitude affects people. Here are laws that are passed, because there are ‘nice’ people using the term. Here are analogies, on why it is bad. Here are my personal experiences.”
You: “but my mom invented the term in 1969! It means ‘this’! ”
Us: “that seems unlikely. Can you prove this claim? Also, did you read everything we said? Do you understand? What don’t you understand?”
You: “i’m so hurt and upset and why and also why is calling yourself pro-life bad????”
Us: “um, you didn’t prove your claim or react to our questions/stories/links, but here you go. The term was widely used in catholic circles by a large organisation that started in 1968. Also we’ve answered why it is bad, but okay here are different stories, laws, life experiences.”
You: “But why is it bad? Why won’t anyone tell me??? I’m really upset and emotional.”
Us: “we’re potentially all upset and emotional, this is an emotional topic. Here is a different set of consequences, stories, barriers to access to show why it is bad.”
You: “But why is it bad? Why won’t anyone tell me??? I’m really upset and emotional.”
Us: “we’re potentially all upset and emotional, this is an emotional topic. Here is a different set of consequences to show why it is bad.”
You: “But why is it bad? Why won’t anyone tell me??? I’m really upset and emotional. I didn’t know anyone else was upset!?!?!!”
Us: “we have been saying all along that this is an emotional issue. Here is a different set of consequences to show why it is bad.”

AAAAAAND repeat.

how we interpret what you have said

We can all read what you’ve said, again and again, and it boils down to: “i’m confused and angry why my mother, who is a good person, can’t call herself pro-life without consequences!!”

She can’t.

She believes in the right to choose, but not enough to say she’s pro-choice. She helps people get needed abortions, but as you’ve only just maybe convinced her it isn’t a sin, thought it was a sin. She influences her close group of relationships with her beliefs (ie: you) so that this topic has needed to be explained. (In the last thread.)

She is the immovable block of ‘nice’, of ‘the Last Resort’, of ‘i am a good person’, of ‘all of my actions will have only good consequences’.

Do i expect her to change her mind? No. She’s older, and probably won’t. But perhaps you can understand the harm she unwittingly does.

We all have people in our lives with opinions we can’t seem to budge.

on if you are being treated like a troll

you are not being treated as a troll. Trolls don’t get actual engagement or conversation. But you are showing trollish behaviours. If you aren’t sure how ‘just asking questions and trying to understand” could come off as trolly, please re-read what i said above in the ‘What this conversation feels like, on our end.’

on if your identity changes how we reply
It does not. You will have had life experiences that tell you that your voice will be heard less and disregarded, but that isn’t what is happening here.

Your *actions* are making people think you either are a troll/engaging in trolling behaviours.

As to why, please read again the section called ‘What this conversation feels like, on our end.’

Katie kitten420
Katie kitten420
1 year ago

But that’s the thing no one said they were upset until really late in the thread and I apologized sincerely and I do again for upsetting anyone that was truly not my intent and people seem to be claiming although I’m not sure that is my intent and that’s upsetting I don’t know what to say. Like someone said I wanted everyone to follow a script and you said Catalpa that I wanted everyone to apologize. I specifically said I do not want people to apologize but you said I did that feels like you’re calling me a liar. Can you at least understand from my perspective that is how it feels when I definitively say I do not want this and you say Katie wants this that it feels like you’re calling me a liar?

Obviously I approached this in the wrong way like I said my social skills are very poor that is not an excuse it is just a factual reason. My goal is to understand why people seemed maybe I misinterpreted this too, but people seem to be equating my mother to a forced birther. To me that seemed incredibly harsh. I had some intense conversation with my mother after the first thread and she apologized and admitted in hindsight she had good intentions but she was wrong she should not have misled me about what pregnancy entails. I also think I have convinced her that abortion is not a sin.

I used the term Last Resort that was an incredible gaffe and misstep. I sometimes speak too quickly like I don’t type I dictate and when I’m emotional sometimes I can phrase things very poorly which I definitely did there. I meant which I think most people will agree with ideally if you don’t want to get pregnant you should try not to get pregnant. I don’t think that’s controversial. I mean having a medical procedure just isn’t pleasant. Wouldn’t it just be easier if you don’t want to be pregnant to use a condom or whatever form of birth control pleases you? By Last Resort that is all I meant. And I have no idea why my talk-to-text keeps capitalizing Last Resort LOL.

This got really intense and I recognize now it is partially because I didn’t realize that the people responding to me we’re also emotionally invested and some were upset and I’m sorry for that truly but I’m really bad at telling if people are upset unless they literally say so.

I’m just awful with any kind of subtlety in some ways I almost lost a relationship in college because my boyfriend had a job and he would say things like okay I have to work early in the morning and yawn and he would be trying to imply that I should go but I thought he would tell me straight out Katie you need to leave at 1 a.m. because I need to wake up at 9 a.m. and I need to get 7 hours of sleep.

My current boyfriend who I’ve known since I was a child was that one who actually fixed that by explaining to him that I truly wasn’t just ignoring him I honestly wasn’t grasping that he was hinting I should leave and trying to be nice instead of just being like bounce.

This is a problem that affects a lot of my life but I don’t really know how to fix it especially on the internet when there’s no facial expression or tone or anything else for me to even look at. So again I swear I am not trolling here. Why would I? I’ve been commenting here for ages and never been a troll why would I suddenly take it in my head to do so now? I’m sorry to that I am obsessing over this. It is something I just do sometimes and I can never know when it’s going to happen but sometimes I just fixate on things and can’t let them go. That is incredibly immature and probably also tactless. I apologize for that too.

Please believe my intention was not to upset anyone that’s all I want at this point. It seems like I’m not going to understand so is this point I just want people to comprehend why I acted the way I did and it’s not because I’m trying to upset anyone or being a troll. I just don’t understand why people would accuse me of that in the first place when I’ve been here for years. I honestly feel awful because I obviously I went about this all wrong and upset a bunch of people who I do have respect for. I’m just so confused because I don’t know what I did that made people so harsh and unhappy with me.

Reading this over it sounds incredibly childish but I don’t know how to edit it because it’s exactly how I feel. I’m going to smoke some weed and calm down LOL. If people say Just Let It Go I guess I will because I don’t want to upset anyone I just want to know why my mom’s belief system seems to almost equate to a forced birthers belief system in a number of commenters minds. That was my goal, that was what I wanted to accomplish it doesn’t seem like that’s going to happen at this point.

So now I’m just explaining my own self and why I acted the way I did. I truly didn’t know I was upsetting anyone until pretty late in the thread like I said the first time someone pointedly said this is upsetting me to and then other people agreed. Until then I’m sorry about my obliviousness but I truly had no notion it was bothering anyone else I saw it was only bothering me because it was about my mother. She’s not anyone else’s mother so I didn’t think anyone else was emotionally invested as I was apparently I was wrong and I apologize for that also.

I do still think it’s unfair that people started calling me a troll. I think that was unkind and I don’t understand why people would jump to that conclusion when I’ve literally been commenting on and off here for years and never been in trouble before why would I all of a sudden decide to do so?

Anyway, obviously people are not feeling me here and would probably appreciate it if I stop commenting any more. I don’t want to be in a place where people don’t want me to be here. Not everyone obviously not even most people but apparently I’m really upsetting a few people and I’m only one person so I guess that’s not fair. I’m really sorry. I’m going to go smoke some weed and go to sleep everyone have a good day

Katie kitten420
Katie kitten420
1 year ago

Rhuu, your comment actually explains a lot thank you it came while I was making mine so I just read it. But as I said people don’t seem to want me here not everyone even close to it but I’m upsetting people and I don’t want to but I seem like I can’t help doing it. And I guess that’s not fair to them. I’m too overwrought at this point to think on this complete rationally. So I’m going to do exactly what I said and smoke some weed and sleep.

You specifically I am incredibly grateful to. I’m sorry if it didn’t feel like a conversation but you were one of the most helpful people of all. I truly read your links and when answering me you sometimes but definitely not always seemed irritated or frustrated but you truly kept trying to help and I appreciate that so much. Thank you sincerely and have a lovely day

Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
1 year ago

Your mom calls herself pro-life. That means, for all intents and purposes, she supports the pro-life movement. If she did not, she wouldn’t use the term.

She doesn’t bomb clinics.

She did consider it a sin.

The modern pro-life movement IS the forced-birth movement.

If I say i am a nazi, but only because i support a strong government, I AM STILL A NAZI. No one will understand that i mean a custom definition, because that is NOT HOW LANGUAGE WORKS.

As we have SAID, multiple multiple multiple times.

I someone said they were a member of the KKK because they liked the community, and to them it means “supporting your neighbours”, THEY ARE STILL PART OF THE KKK AND WILL MAKE THE GROUP STRONGER. And if someone goes “hey, the kkk is racist af”, they can go “nu-uh! Look at bob! He’s a good guy, look at him helping his community!” Meanwhile *other people* are doing *unspeakable things*!!!!!!!!!!!

Now, seriously, i am not parsing another wall of text. Please put your questions point form.

Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
1 year ago

… no edit timer at all? Weird, i had one on the last!

Anyway, i’m glad i could help, Katie. That is what we are all trying to do.

What would help us is you giving some feedback on what we have written (after your point form questions). What makes sense? What doesn’t? Do you understand why people chose the article/link/anecdote they did?

Catalpa
Catalpa
1 year ago

Catalpa that I wanted everyone to apologize

I said that I was pretty sure you wanted everyone to apologize. And I still am. Why else do you keep making those guilt-trippy posts? You still haven’t explained that.

Wouldn’t it just be easier if you don’t want to be pregnant to use a condom or whatever form of birth control pleases you?

This is still demanding that women justify their abortions to you and it’s a shitty position.

I truly had no notion it was bothering anyone else I saw it was only bothering me because it was about my mother.

This isn’t about your mother. This is about basic human rights that are at this very moment under attack by people whom your mother willingly chooses to share a name with.

Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
1 year ago

This isn’t about your mother. This is about basic human rights that are at this very moment under attack by people whom your mother willingly chooses to share a name with.

QFT.

Katie kitten420
Katie kitten420
1 year ago

Okay very last thing LOL I’m a little stoned now. I want to make sure this is clear. The thing that got me all worked up and upset is I thought people were saying that my mother is no better in her beliefs been one of those forced birther anti-abortion fanatics. Like I said I’ve going with a few friends for moral support before. Four times to be precise, twice it was just me and the girl, and twice I went with a small group.

The time we got spit on and truly harassed it was only and we were both black and it was one of the most terrifying experiences of my life until that point. It was the summer before I started college so I was only 18 and like you could literally feel the hate pouring off those people protesting at the abortion clinic.

The fact that people seemed and again maybe I misinterpreted to be equating the fact that because my mother was an Irish Catholic nun(she was conceived before they left actually by accident they didn’t mean to start a pregnancy until they got here but obviously they did not believe in birth control LOL.)Her parents were very devout and she was very indoctrinated by the Catholic church because she was lucky enough to actually belong to a very good church(I mean comparatively obviously.)

And like maybe I wasn’t clear but yes she is vocal about the fact that she is politically as she specifies it pro-choice she feels like it’s not the government’s place to dictate that. It is a personal matter. But personally she could not have an abortion because she feels she is killing a potential life. She only discusses these believes with people who are close to her or who were like her students who needed her help when she was a teacher. I just felt like yes some of her beliefs are problematic like her feeling that being pro-life is just being for things that support all life and make life better for everyone as some people said that well has been poisoned that ship has sailed.

But I don’t see how her believing that small thing even if it is a lapse of judgment since she’s not going to come out at a group of co-workers or Associates saying she is pro-life because she’s not dumb and knows people would assume she meant the other type of pro-life.

Maybe I was not clear enough before but the reason she is so stuck on the term is because she and her best friend Margaret started that group I mentioned in college and it was like almost the first thing that she did on her own. I can understand why she wouldn’t want to discard it whether it is a good idea or not. Nostalgia and emotion are powerful things.

And like I said last resort was a very poor choice of words I phrase that very poorly I think I explained it better in the previous comment. Okay now I’m reasonably stoned LOL, because I really needed to calm myself down so I can sleep.

My point is when I felt like my mother was being seen as almost just the same as those terrifying people who spit on me and my friend and screamed and word like really scary it just felt very harsh and unjust. I’m not trying to get into it again whether or not it was harsh or unjust. Obviously I think it was harsh simply because I just don’t think she is like those terrifying people and I was just very confused how anyone else could think so.

Okay I’m going to sleep I hope it’s made sense and I hope I explained my statements and actions in such a way that people understand that I am not a troll and I’m not trying to upset any one at all that was not my intention in the least and again I am sincerely sorry for it. Good night all and have a good day

Katie kitten420
Katie kitten420
1 year ago

Catalpa, okay seriously I’m going to bed because now I’m reasonably intoxicated also but I honestly don’t understand how I’m demanding people to justify their abortions. I feel if you need an abortion you should be able to go to an abortion clinic and say I need an abortion and that is all. No questions no muss no fuss no hoops to jump through it’s your body your business.

I’m not trying to attack you but it really feels like you’re trying to find problems with what I’m saying. Yes you did say you’re pretty sure I want people to apologize but why, when I specifically more than once said no no I don’t want that. How will an apology get me closer to comprehension? Why do you not believe me? I do not want an apology. I never wanted an apology. I wanted to understand. Now you can tell me I want apologies again and then you will truly just be calling me a liar. If that’s what you believe that is your right but at least say what it is. I honestly truly mean no connotations, no implications, wouldn’t it just be easier?

I say that because as someone who vehemently does not want children, that is what I do because it seems easier to take care of it beforehand then have to worry about it after the fact. There is no moral judgment it just seems easier. I honestly don’t understand how I’m telling people to justify anything, I’m not.

I’m talking about whether something is literally harder or easier not in a moral sense just more efficient and obviously this is just my personal experience and opinion if you disagree then your opinion is just as valid. Anyway if you want to tell me that for some reason I’m just saying words that are untrue could you at least please tell me why you think that? I’m going to bed. I’ll see it when I wake up. I just don’t understand why you think I would do that what do you think I’m trying to accomplish?

Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
1 year ago

I honestly truly mean no connotations, no implications, wouldn’t it just be easier?

No. You are putting a value judgement on something that needs none.

Condom: value = easy
Birth conrtol: value = maybe easy (this is medicine so side effects.)
Abortion: value = HARD.

Literally you are assigning values to variables and then being confused when people chose then ‘hard’ option when they could have chosen the easy ones.

Literally.

Now, questions point form, or i seriously will not respond any more.

contrapangloss
contrapangloss
1 year ago

Whoa.

Woke up to the Great Walls of Text surrounding this post. I’m not going to address a lot of substance here, but…

KatieKitten: WWTH and Catalpa did give some really good advice about what things in the thread might lead towards threadmaggedon and assumptions of trollishness.

Rhuu has also made a suggestion that might help.

It’s really hard for us to pick out questions when there’s (a) a lot of them per post (b) a lot of them seem really similar but not identical and (c) they’re buried in the midst of a LOT of words.

My best advice for you is this: Slow Down

This doesn’t mean lurk eternally, but… Consider limiting yourself to 1 post per six to eight hour window. Give yourself time to edit and organize your thoughts. Type in your notes app of your phone, or a word processor, so a refreshed webpage doesn’t wipe out everything.

The more organized, the easier it is for us to understand and address points we disagree (and agree!) on clearly and directly.

For now, maybe try to put your thoughts in the top section without questions, rhetorical or otherwise, and then have a numbered list of actual questions at the end?

Cull redundant questions, cull redundant thoughts. Ask a single version of each question, as best you can.

Give folks time to respond (3-4 hours) give yourself time to read and process (2-3 hours) and then try again.

I don’t usually ask for stuff like this, because I’m a firm believer that (a) the quality of writing does not necessarily reflect the quality of ideas and (b) capturing initial reactions and thoughts can be important!

However, after 5 pages of posts, I think it’s safe to say the current communication scheme is not working and it’s time for a change.

Hippodameia
Hippodameia
1 year ago

Lather rinse repeat. I commend those of you who are still trying.

kupo
kupo
1 year ago

Wouldn’t it just be easier if you don’t want to be pregnant to use a condom or whatever form of birth control pleases you? By Last Resort that is all I meant.

That’s exactly what everyone means when they say last resort and it’s still harmful for the reasons we already explained.

This is an anti-abortion stance.

It is a stance that furthers the forced-birth agenda.

It is a stance that judges people with uteri for their choices.

It is a stance that places a potential life higher in a morality ranking than a person with a uterus’ personal bodily autonomy.

This has already been explained to you, but you assume we couldn’t mean your last resort stance because you’re a good person. Not in this belief, you’re not. Sorry if that stings, but it’s a fact.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Okay, so all the advice Katie has been given is just going to be blatantly ignored?

Catalpa
Catalpa
1 year ago

Okay, fine. You don’t want us to apologize. You just want us to admit that we are wrong about our position regarding pro-life (specifically YOUR definition of pro-life of course!).

At least, that’s the only reason I can see why you would keep repeating the same points that we have refuted again and again. You refuse to acknowledge the data we provide you, so learning certainly doesn’t seem to be your goal.

it seems easier to take care of it beforehand then have to worry about it after the fact. There is no moral judgment it just seems easier.

Do you know what this sounds like? That same old rape apologia that people spout.

“Well, I’m not saying that she deserved to be raped, but why didn’t she just say no? Why didn’t she dress more conservatively? Why didn’t she keep an eye on her drink? Why didn’t she not go into his apartment?”

“That would definitely never happen to ME, because I would take precautions. The real problem is those careless women who don’t bother to do the same. It’s easy.”

You don’t know what people’s situations are. You don’t know what was an option for them at the time.

Assuming that it is easy to avoid an undesirable situation by just following some basic steps is incredibly judgemental. And shitty.

opposablethumbs
opposablethumbs
1 year ago

Wouldn’t it just be easier if you don’t want to be pregnant to use a condom or whatever form of birth control pleases you? By Last Resort that is all I meant.

First of all I take my hat off to all of you who have given such excellent responses already.
Second of all, @Katie, what on earth makes you think people don’t already “just” use birth control? (when they can get access to it, of course, without being prevented by local religion/parents/overbearing partners/geography/law/money etc etc, and when they have the clout to insist on only having sex with contraception in the first place). Are you seriously suggesting that unwanted pregnancies mostly happen because people could use contraception and just don’t bother? And do you think contraception never fails?

The younger, poorer, less powerful a person is, the less likely they are to be able to make sure they only have sex with contraception; and every contraceptive method has its failure rate.

And in any case, no matter what the circumstances, any pregnant person has the right to choose whether or not they want to continue a pregnancy.

kupo
kupo
1 year ago

And in any case, no matter what the circumstances, any pregnant person has the right to choose whether or not they want to continue a pregnancy.

And, more applicable to this “last resort” stance, any person with a uterus has the right to decide which contraceptive methods they do or do not use. They het to decide what’s best for their body. No one else gets to make that call.

andThyme
andThyme
1 year ago

Hi Katie,

It sounds like your mother has a similar background to my mother.

My Mom is from the Philly suburbs and was a Catholic nun until the age of 34. She met my father, and in short order renounced her vows, left the convent and then married him.

My sister and I went to Catholic school and Mass 3 times a week growing up, etc. I have a vivid memory in the car on the way home from school with my Mom listening to the radio news (must have been early 80’s as I was about 5) about Michael Dukakis’ stance on abortion. I asked my Mom to explain and she replied how it was (her words- I deeply apologize) a surgery to kill babies while they are in their mommies’ tummies.

I decided right then and there that I was going to save all the babies- again, I must have been about 5 years old.

Flash forward: *CONTENT WARNING*

I was raped at age 24. I went to a bar with coworkers and the son of one of them. I had one beer and I don’t remember getting back to the house I was watching at the time.
I woke up on the kitchen floor not knowing what had happened. When I went to work I had a new nickname. That son of a coworker started calling me “Sleeping Beauty”. He and his friends thought it was hilarious. I figured it out when I found a condom still inside me. His mom never knew what was behind the name, but she called me that as well.

*END CONTENT WARNING*
I found out I was pregnant a short time later.
Abortion was not my last resort- it was my ONLY one. As in it was right for me.
My Mom helped me pay for it and my sister drove me. A tech at the clinic held my hand while I tried through tears to explain that I wasn’t really a horrible person.

There is and has been a lot of distance between my Mom and I since then. She put me in a special category I guess. Not right about what happened, but still my fault as she explained her take on it. My Mom has mellowed, and is no longer active in the Church. We never speak of what happened, but I still feel fallen in her eyes.

I guess I’m trying to say is that I love my Mom, but I wish she had not been so staunch in her belief of fault and sin. Her beliefs hurt me when I was really vulnerable and I’m still not completely over it.

I’m sorry for rambling, but my upbringing was a hard thing to unlearn and this discussion reminded me of sometimes how hard our loved ones’ teachings can be to unravel.

Pagan Reader - Misandrist Spinster
Pagan Reader - Misandrist Spinster
1 year ago

@Katie Kitten420

Wouldn’t it just be easier if you don’t want to be pregnant to use a condom or whatever form of birth control pleases you?

They do. you

ABORTION AND CONTRACEPTION
Induced abortions usually result from unintended pregnancies, which often occur despite the use of contraception (CDC).

In 2008, 51% of women having abortions used a contraceptive method during the month they became pregnant. (AGI).

9 in 10 women at risk of unintended pregnancy are using a contraceptive method (AGI).

Oral contraceptives, the most widely used reversible method of contraception, carry failure rates of 6 to 8% in actual practice (NAF).

Source: https://abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics/

Pagan Reader - Misandrist Spinster
Pagan Reader - Misandrist Spinster
1 year ago

@Katie Kitten420

Wouldn’t it just be easier if you don’t want to be pregnant to use a condom or whatever form of birth control pleases you

Short answer: They do. All forms of contraceptives have a failure rate, even with perfect use.

ABORTION AND CONTRACEPTION
Induced abortions usually result from unintended pregnancies, which often occur despite the use of contraception (CDC).

In 2008, 51% of women having abortions used a contraceptive method during the month they became pregnant. (AGI).

9 in 10 women at risk of unintended pregnancy are using a contraceptive method (AGI).

Oral contraceptives, the most widely used reversible method of contraception, carry failure rates of 6 to 8% in actual practice (NAF).

(Spaces added for readability)

Source: https://abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics/

I found that by googling “abortion statistics” btw

Hopefully my comment posts this time

Pagan Reader - Misandrist Spinster
Pagan Reader - Misandrist Spinster
1 year ago

Alright so the first one went through. Anyone else need a kitten to look at?
comment image
(Itty bitty kitty committee)

And the lovely miss Wylla Stout:comment image
(Itty bitty kitty committee)

Sorry for double posting

opposablethumbs
opposablethumbs
1 year ago

@andThyme, I am so sorry. Wish I had the words to say it properly.

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
1 year ago

Oh gosh @andThyme, that is a rough story. I’m so sorry. I’m glad it has mellowed, and I hope it continues to <3

Catalpa
Catalpa
1 year ago

@andThyme
I’m sorry you had to go through that, and I’m sorry if this thread brought up bad memories for you. I wish you all the comfort and healing.

Katie kitten420
Katie kitten420
1 year ago

Thyme, I’m very sorry for what happened to you. That is absolutely horrifying and I’m so glad you have been able to find at least some healing. I’m sorry if this gave you any bad memories that was definitely not my intent to bring up bad memories for anybody.

Katie kitten420
Katie kitten420
1 year ago

Okay I feel like this has become kind of like a very few people are purposely trying to see the worst possible interpretation of what I’m saying. My literal first paragraph says I think anyone who needs an abortion should be able to go to an abortion clinic and get one for any reason. No muss, no fuss no hoops to jump through, their body their business. I literally made that exact statement, how does that equate to judgement?

Have people forgotten I was referring to my mother’s views previously? Anyone can look at my comment history and see that I say over and over again whatever you want to do that does not harm or have negative effects for anyone else go right ahead. Your life your business. I don’t care what it is sex, abortions, drugs, whatever. It doesn’t matter cuz it’s not my business.

My entire moral standpoint is don’t hurt people. That is all, do whatever the hell you please and it’s no one’s business and I have said this over and over and over again over the years in the comments here. Where do people get me judging people from anything I said? I don’t even like to make decisions for myself let alone other people that’s one of the myriad reasons I gravitated towards submission in BDSM.

I honestly don’t understand how what I said conveys judgment. Where do I say or even imply a pregnant person does not have the right at any time to terminate their pregnancy for any reason? It feels like people are just projecting things onto me at this point cuz I never said anything like that. I’ve spoken very little about my personal views in this thread I’ve been speaking about my mother’s. If people are going to claim I’m judging people please make one of those little box quotes to show me where I am judging people. I also specifically stated that this is my personal opinion and it seems easier to me and it is what I do and anyone else’s opinion is obviously equally valid. I never definitively made a value judgement as some people have claimed.

I said in my personal opinion that it is easier(I also never said easy as some claimed. I said, and this is probably influenced by living in NYC and upper middle class privilege, easier.)to prevent it than fix it after its done. Which honestly I feel is true about pretty much everything in life. Preventing something is generally just more efficient and less difficult and time consuming than fixing it after the fact in almost every case I can think of I honestly can’t think of something off the top of my head where that is not the case. Why is that a controversial thing to say or a judgemental thing to say when I explicitly state it is my personal opinion, no more or less valid than any other.

I hate going to the doctor for a checkup and in that case, there’s not a moderate chance of being spit on and or being called crude vulgar slurs. Going with people for moral support was personally psychologically intense and unpleasant, I imagine going for myself would be even more difficult. That is my personal opinion and I’m not trying to force it on people or claim it is more valid than any other what is controversial about that opinion? It feels to me although again I’m not going to say what people’s motivations and thoughts and feelings are because that offended me so of course I wouldn’t do it to others. But I personally feel that a very few people at this point are just trying to see my statements in the worst light

At this point I’m truly just feeling like some people are just looking to find problems with what I’m saying whether they’re there or not. A number of people seem to doubt my sincerity and I honestly don’t know why. What do the people who claim I am judging people and not acting in good faith think I’m trying to because now I’m very curious about that? People have also said I’m trying to guilt trip people here? Why in God’s name would I do such a thing? How could that possibly benefit me in any way or accomplished anything at all?

I find it disturbing that even though I distinctly said I was wrong about at least 80% of things I stated in the initial thread and apologize sincerely and repeatedly for unintentionally upsetting and or offending anybody that some few people still seem to claim that I don’t want to learn anything. If that’s what you believe what do you think I’m trying to do truly? Why is it so impossible to accept my words at face value instead of trying to parse them for weird motives?

Possibly that’s just me being insecure or anxious but that’s truly what it feels like because you can literally go back in my comment history and see me say it over and over again how I don’t even like to make my own decisions for myself that’s what my darling boyfriend is for LOL. Judging other people is way too much time and work and effort for what.

Thank you pagan reader for those statistics, looking at those it does seem like maybe I’ve been particularly lucky. I have never gotten pregnant and I’ve used the pill and condoms and been incredibly promiscuous at times. I did not know the failure rates were that high for correct usage.

Can someone please tell me exactly where I am judging anyone by saying it is easier in my personal experience specific and any other opinion is just as valid? It seems like some people are cherry picking portions of my comments to make them sound as bad as possible. Why would you do that? I truly don’t see anything I said that judges anybody because I’m not judging anybody. Someone just decided that. Wouldn’t I know better than anyone else whether I am judging people? It’s not sarcasm or snark. I don’t understand why people can’t take my words at face value. All I wanted was to understand why people with equating my mom wigs forced birther anti-abortion fanatics the people who literally spat on me and verbally abused me.

Okay let me try to make this as basic as I possibly can because it this point I’m not trying to convince anyone of anything I just want people to see where I am coming from or at least was coming from. My mother would never dream of doing such a thing. Taking horrible actions against people is definitely at least in my opinion than having some ignorant beliefs so therefore it felt unjust that people were equating my mom to such people.

Now since people have explained why the term itself holds such power I guess the word is I was starting to comprehend it and then people just started telling me I was lying and being a troll and all sorts of stuff and that completely confused me again.

Anyway the train is here let me get on it. At this point I’m very grateful to the people who helped me learn about what pregnancy actually entails and a number of other things like Pagan reader for giving me those statistics but at this point it seems like I’m just not going to understand this. I guess that’s just how life works you can’t understand everything.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Katie,

Is there some reason you are ignoring the advice others have given you about to communicate on this issue?

Seriously. Would you at least address it in some capacity? Even if it’s to disagree. At this point, why should anyone care about your feelings when you are going out of your way to ignore us when we give you pointers on how to discuss sensitive topics without causing animosity? If you don’t answer me, I might have to change my mind and think maybe you are a troll. Or at least someone who likes to cause conflict.

Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
1 year ago

Katie, I told you what i needed to be able to answer you. If you can’t manage point form, give me a couple of tl;dr sentences that summarise your points.

You ask for people to point out where you make it a value judgement. We have. You ask for quotes. We used them, though you have never, even when i asked for just copying and pasting with quotation marks.

I don’t have time to parse through a very long post that says (within it) both the same things you have said before and repeating something again and again internally. (people say i am a troll, i am not look at my comment history. I never gave a value judgement. I am hurt. I am confused.)

Throughout this entire discussion, you have very rarely engaged with specific things we say. We don’t know how to explain things, because you never tells us what resonates.

I want you to understand why holding an opinion shapes how you interact with the world.

I want you to understand how you could hold an opinion like “abortion should be easy to get” and also “some people are just too lazy. They can get one, but they should have been more responsible with easier choices in the first place”, which is rather pro-life. Humans are full of biases and contradictions, you just found one of your own.

But i told you what i needed from you, and didn’t get it.

I won’t engage with what i divine are your questions until you help me out here. You want to understand, i need you to BE CLEAR.

Catalpa
Catalpa
1 year ago

I’ve spoken very little about my personal views in this thread I’ve been speaking about my mother’s. If people are going to claim I’m judging people please make one of those little box quotes to show me where I am judging people.

Well, now you ARE lying, or at least making misleading statements. You share your mother’s “last resort” view, by your own admission. From last page:

By Last Resort I don’t mean something ridiculous I mean use
condoms, try to use the morning after pill and if something goes wrong yes then it’s a viable option. That’s what she means by Last Resort. I thought that is how everyone felt.

If you yourself didn’t feel this way, then obviously you would not believe that everyone felt like this.

We have already addressed why this stance is shitty and judgemental. I’m not going to repeat myself again. Go scroll up and read the previous posts if you’re still confused.

Now since people have explained why the term itself holds such power I guess the word is I was starting to comprehend it and then people just started telling me I was lying and being a troll and all sorts of stuff and that completely confused me again.

And this sentiment here is why I said I didn’t think that you were here to learn. We have provided you, again and again, with facts and in some cases very personal and harrowing stories to show you just how toxic and damaging the pro-life movement is.

But because some people here were insufficiently nice to you, suddenly all those facts are impossible to understand again? As if politeness is the deciding factor in what is true?

Hippodameia
Hippodameia
1 year ago

People have also said I’m trying to guilt trip people here? Why in God’s name would I do such a thing? How could that possibly benefit me in any way or accomplished anything at all?

Because it keeps the conversation where you want it, centered on your emotional state. You don’t like it when people disagree with you, so you say that your feelings are hurt. When you’re objectively wrong on something, you complain that the person who told you that you were wrong wasn’t nice enough. When you state “pro-life” opinions and get called on them, you plead the purity of your intentions. In other words, you want you feelings to be more important that what’s being discussed.

It’s manipulative. It’s wearing thin even for the people who were originally willing to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
1 year ago

In fairness to Katie, I think whatever she’s using to comment here is saddling her with major technical limitations that might make responding with bullet points difficult, to say nothing of doing any significant editing. She said at one point she was using speech-to-text. I’m not entirely sure why but it could be crummy hardware, maybe a phone with a small screen and a piss-poor keyboard capability.

This, of course, only would explain the formatting/communication difficulties, and not the other points of disagreement evident here.

kupo
kupo
1 year ago

@Surplus
No ome is asking her to add literal bullet points. They’re asking for succinct wording, which can be done from any device that you can create large walls of text from.

Katie kitten420
Katie kitten420
1 year ago

What is point form? I’m sorry I honestly don’t remember exactly what that means. Apparently it’s more important than I thought and I’m sorry cuz people keep saying that. I thought you just meant like a list and I separated it into paragraphs instead of a giant wall of text I thought that’s what you meant I’m sorry. Now I get it

Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
1 year ago

Like this, Katie.

-i don’t understand how my mom calling herself pro-life has a consequence.

-i liked X article, but i didn’t understand Y part of it.

-when you said “quote quote quote” to me (you can paraphrase, if you have to, just say who you are replying to) i understood X but not Y.

Short, tl;dr summaries that let us know where you are. Trust us, we know you are upset. you don’t need to tell us. And if you do, go “i am still upset” and leave it at that.

Katie kitten420
Katie kitten420
1 year ago

Yes I sort of got mugged and my phone got broken a little more than a month ago so my current phone the screen is f****** tiny as s*** cuz I got a really cheap $50 phone to last till my upgrade in a few months because it would be silly spend a few hundred dollars on a phone now when in April I’ll be able to get an upgrade with my plan.

I am so sorry. I thought people didn’t understand because I wasn’t being concise and I can’t help not being concise. Honestly anyone who has seen me come in here for years you must have noticed this. It has nothing to do with this topic that’s just always how I comment.

Now I totally understand what you’re asking for and I will do so. I am so sorry because the people who are asking me to do this or the people who have been the most understanding I truly did not understand what you were asking me to do. I just Googled Point form LOL

Katie kitten420
Katie kitten420
1 year ago

Hippodameia: you know what, I’m not doing that on purpose but when you explain it like that I can see where you’re coming from and okay it is definitely possible that I’m doing that unconsciously. And even if not I can see how someone could see it that way.

Fair enough. I will try my best to stop doing that although like I said if I’m doing it it’s unconscious so I don’t know if I will be successful.

Does that convince you my intentions are at least good even though my manner of phrasing or speech has been very poorly chosen a number of times? Because what I’m about to say now I’m not trying to make you feel guilty I swear, but you’ve been here for a long time so you’ve seen me comment for a while. That’s why it’s kind of upsetting that you honestly seem to think I am doing something on purpose to upset people here.

kupo
kupo
1 year ago

@Katie
I’ll give an example of bullet points using a couple of your paragraphs. When creating bullet points you pull out just the condensed version of your point or question, so it’s difficult for me to make a list for you because it’s hard for me to know what the most important part is to you, but I’ll try my best.

You said,

My entire moral standpoint is don’t hurt people. That is all, do whatever the hell you please and it’s no one’s business and I have said this over and over and over again over the years in the comments here. Where do people get me judging people from anything I said? I don’t even like to make decisions for myself let alone other people that’s one of the myriad reasons I gravitated towards submission in BDSM.

I honestly don’t understand how what I said conveys judgment. Where do I say or even imply a pregnant person does not have the right at any time to terminate their pregnancy for any reason? It feels like people are just projecting things onto me at this point cuz I never said anything like that. I’ve spoken very little about my personal views in this thread I’ve been speaking about my mother’s. If people are going to claim I’m judging people please make one of those little box quotes to show me where I am judging people. I also specifically stated that this is my personal opinion and it seems easier to me and it is what I do and anyone else’s opinion is obviously equally valid. I never definitively made a value judgement as some people have claimed.

Here’s a crack at a bullet list version:

– My entire moral standpoint is don’t hurt people.
– Where do people get me judging people from anything I said?
– Where do I say or even imply a pregnant person does not have the right at any time to terminate their pregnancy for any reason?

Something along those lines. You can leave out the hyphens if they’re hard for you to make and just use paragraphs between points instead. Bullet points shouldn’t ne more than a sentence or two.

Your posts are hard to read because they repeat a lot of information and the actual point you’re making or question you’re asking gets lost, and that’s the reason people are requesting this, so keep that in mind when creating bullet points.

Katie kitten420
Katie kitten420
1 year ago

Thank you very much Kupo. That is very helpful, you seem to have the gift for being concise that I lack LOL. Now I understand exactly what is being asked for and that is what I will do in my next comment. I’ll be home early(for me at least LOL between one and two am East Coast time) and I will do it exactly like you explained it.

That actually seems like a good way to make things concise. I can use my dictation and then cut it down into bullet points

kupo
kupo
1 year ago

@Katie
Ha, I had a run on sentence in there, so I’m not always concise! Really it comes down to getting it out, then going back and editing. And it’s a skill that takes lots of practice, which I learned when I had a boss who was completely enamored with bullet points. 😄

Hippodameia
Hippodameia
1 year ago

KatieKitten,

Because what I’m about to say now I’m not trying to make you feel guilty I swear, but you’ve been here for a long time so you’ve seen me comment for a while. That’s why it’s kind of upsetting that you honestly seem to think I am doing something on purpose to upset people here.

I don’t feel guilty at all. I’m not responsible for the fact that you feel upset.

Does that convince you my intentions are at least good even though my manner of phrasing or speech has been very poorly chosen a number of times?

Intent is not magic. If you want the benefit of the doubt and the assumption of good faith, you need to start listening to what people have been telling you for the last five pages and addressing what they’ve been saying.

Katie kitten420
Katie kitten420
1 year ago

I think it is incredibly apparent I only edit extreme typos and mistakes. Like up till this point I honestly did not realize it made comprehension that much harder for some people, maybe most people, judging from the comments.

Probably the reason it doesn’t or at least doesn’t seem to affect my comprehension it’s because I do it constantly myself therefore I can parse it when other people do it.

But that is unfair to ask other people to pars my particular way of speaking if it’s actually impeding people’s comprehension. Especially given that no one is obligated to educate me, I’m asking for a moderately large favor.

Thank you so much for the help but the reason I’ve been commenting off until the last half-hour is I was waiting for someone and the person I was waiting for is here so let me take care of this and then I can get home out of this cold Icy weather in NYC.

Katie kitten420
Katie kitten420
1 year ago

I didn’t say you feel guilty. I said you seem to think I’m trying to make you and others feel guilty. Like you think that is my intention to do so. I’m sorry that was unclear. I’m not claiming my intentions are magic. I’m claiming and I am aware that this is a point of contention among liberals that intent does matter. Of course actions matter more it would be silly to say otherwise. But I would definitely rather someone intended to do good then intended to do bad. Maybe that’s naive but that’s how I feel

I believe it matters because someone truly has good intentions but is honestly ignorant they can be educated and informed and that’s good for everybody. I believe this because I’ve done it regarding racial matters a number of times. For example the girl I met at NYU from a town of less than 5,000 people who only had spoken to at that point in her life two black people ever and literally never met a black person of her generation. She was full of ridiculous stereotypes and ignorance because almost all she had seen was black people in TV and movies. And in the long run she turned out to be totally awesome and we became friends.

All I’m asking is can you at least give me the benefit of the doubt because okay when you phrase it like that I can see how someone could think that was my intention. But it isnt and it’s good you don’t feel guilty because you shouldn’t and neither should anyone else because they have nothing to feel guilty for LOL

Hippodameia
Hippodameia
1 year ago

If you want the benefit of the doubt you need to start listening to what’s been said in this thread, and you need to address the issues raised.

Catalpa
Catalpa
1 year ago

Intent does matter, but only so far in that if someone is unintentionally hurtful, then it is assumed that they will cease to do the hurtful thing upon being informed that it is hurtful.

If someone continues to be hurtful, even after being informed that it is hurtful, all the while claiming that they do not intend to be hurtful, then intent doesn’t count for diddly-squat.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

What Hippodameia said. I’m just being straight up ignored now.

I guess that means Katie wants me to perceive her as a troll.