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'bating antifeminism cuck cuckolding incels men who should not ever be with women ever MGTOW misogyny NoFap porn reactionary bullshit reddit self-hatred semen sex sexual assault sexual harassment slut shaming the federalist

The Federalist channels incel logic with its latest hot take suggesting that watching porn is adultery

Apparently we’re all having affairs with Stormy Daniels

By David Futrelle

The Federalist has once again delivered a hot take so blazingly bad that the entire internet, it seems, has risen up to point and laugh at it.

The conservative site, a veritable factory of extremely bad takes on subjects ranging from The Mueller investigation to feminism, posted a piece by writer John Sweeney yesterday informing us all that “You’re Not Allowed To Knock Trump For Stormy Daniels If You Watch Porn.” According to Sweeney, you see, watching porn is basically adultery, so watching Stormy Daniels have sex is basically the same as having an affair with her.

Now, there are any number of things wrong with this, er, argument — not the least the fact that the real issue with Trump and Stormy Daniels isn’t the sex; it’s the hush money payments, which pretty clearly violated campaign finance laws, making Trump himself the unindicted co-conspirator in a felony case that’s already sent his former top lawyer to jail.

But let’s focus on the even dumber argument at the heart of the piece, the idea that watching porn is the same as committing adultery — at least if you’re a married dude.  (In Sweeney’s world, everyone is straight and only men watch porn.)

“Culturally we may not believe it,” Sweeney asserts,

but each time a married man watches pornography, he commits an act of adultery. … We don’t wait for our wives to leave the house to watch baseball.

Sweeney restates his basic premise perhaps a half-dozen times, but never actually presents a straightforward argument that would justify his conclusion.

Instead, he focuses on a slightly different scenario — a situation in which a husband engages in virtual sex with a woman online:

[I]magine that a woman returns home from work only to find her husband on a video chat, engaging in virtual sex with a woman he met online. … Direct physical contact is sufficient, but not necessary to commit adultery. …

[H]iding behind a computer screen is nothing more than a technicality, providing neither excuse nor justification. It is easy to see, then, that watching pornography is not substantively different or uniquely innocent.

Perhaps realizing that he hasn’t quite managed to convincingly argue that last bit — his equation of virtual sex and porn — Sweeney presents a different hypothetical scenario: a husband watching a live cam show. “His behavior here is no different than the previous hypothetical,” Sweeney asserts.

If a man can commit adultery through a computer connection, does it really matter who is on the other end?

Well, yeah, it does. There’s a difference between an intimate, interactive sexual encounter between two people — even if it’s virtual — and watching a show put on for dozens or hundreds of viewers.

Notice, then, how similar this is to watching pornography.  The only real difference is that a typical pornographic video is pre-recorded. 

This is like saying that talking to someone — in person or on the phone — is the same as reading a book by them. In the first case you are interacting with a specific person; in the second you are part of an audience and have no personal connection with the author.

The only scenario out of the three that could be considered “cheating” is the virtual sex scenario, because it involves a personal connection of sorts with another human being. Private cam sessions might also be considered cheating — emphasis on the “might.”

Are any of these things exactly the same as having an affair or having sex with a sex worker? No. And it’s up to individual couples to define what does and does not count as infidelity in their relationships.

Some might consider virtual sex with an almost-stranger to be much less of a big deal than, say, a partner publicly flirting with a neighbor, even if there is virtually no chance that this flirtation will lead to any kind of sex. Moreover, nonmonogamy has rules as much as monogamy does. Someone in an open relationship might be fine with their partner having sex with multiple other people on a regular basis — but forbid their partner from seeing a sex worker or getting a lap dance.

Different people draw boundaries in radically different ways. And that’s their business. Wantonly expanding the definition of adultery to encompass everything even vaguely sexual — including porn watching — is neither honest nor helpful.

Sweeney’s porn=adultery argument is strikingly similar to one I’ve run across again and again from NoFappers and incels and assorted others in the manosphere — the notion that those who watch porn are cuckolds, in that they are watching women having sex instead of having sex with them.

“All the porn you watch is basically Cuckold Porn.,” a NoFap Redditor calling himself keysomea declared in a post a year ago.

Why? Here is the explanation: You are basically watching another guy fuck the women that you would want to fuck and taking pleasure in that by masturbating to that.

While it makes a certain sense for someone trying to avoid masturbating to porn — the primary goal of the NoFap movement — to cast aspersions on the act of masturbating to porn, this argument is set forth even more energetically by incels.

“Watching porn makes you a cuck,” someone called Heightframeface declared on the Incels.is forums earlier this year.

How can people, especially incels, watch a Chad fuck a girl who’s making tens of thousands of dollars by being a digital prostitute? This is the ultimate form of cuckoldry.  …

WATCHING PORN MAKES YOU LIKE ANY OTHER SOY-INFESTED LIBERAL CUCK OUT THERE 

“Porn Fappers are cucks,” agreed another commenter in yet another thread on the Incels.is forums.

You Who watch Tyrone or Chad plow Stacy on the regular are cucks stuck in jewish agenda.

You enjoy seeing a superior man have sex With The girl you wish to screw daily and enjoy that.

And this isn’t the only way in which incels have broadened the definition of “cuck.” As I noted in a recent post,

incels have expanded the definition of “cuckold” to include every man who has sex with a girl or a woman who isn’t a virgin. In other words, if a woman has ever had sex with a man other than the one she’s currently with, she’s basically cucking her current man as much as if she were to have sex with another man right in her boyfriend or husband’s bed while he watches, humiliated.

Many incels become fixated on this idea. When they see a woman they find attractive, all many incels can think about is all the other guys that (they imagine) she’s been with.

And somehow this always leads their brains to thoughts of semen. “Can you talk to a girl knowing that her mouth has been filled with semen?” asked one Incels.is commenter. It’s something that these guys think about on a daily basis — causing them to feel worse about themselves and to hate women even more.

Incels aren’t the only woman-hating woman-wanters to make this argument, which is also fairly common amongst MGTOWs — those similarly womanless men who, unlike the incels, claim that their womanlessness is the result of their own deliberate choices. “How cucked do you need to be,” one MGTOW recently declared in a Reddit rant, “to put a ring on someone who took it up the ass and swallowed when she was younger?”

It’s easy enough to see why NoFappers, incels, and MGTOWs have adopted such a ludicrously capacious notion of cuckoldry. NoFappers define porn use as cuckoldry because they’re trying to stop using porn. Incels adopt the same definition not because they’ve given up porn — most seemingly haven’t — but because, somewhat paradoxically, it enables them both to play the “cucked” victim of porn and to look down on “normies” who also use porn.

Similarly, incels and MGTOWs are happy to castigate men who have sex with non-virginal women as “cucks” because it makes them feel better about their own celibacy (whether they consider it “involuntary” or their own choice). And it gives them yet another excuse to slut-shame any woman who have any sort of sex life at all.

So are there similarly political motives behind Sweeney’s weird expansion of the notion of adultery to include watching porn?

At the outset, Sweeney insists he’s not making the argument in his article’s title — that people who use porn have no right to criticize Trump’s affair with Stormy Daniels — in an attempt to absolve Trump of his sins. “This [argument] by no means justifies President Trump’s behavior,” Sweeny declares.

He slept with another woman while his wife was home caring for their son, and he deserves every second of criticism from his affair with Daniels.

Well, perhaps, but it seems pretty clear that by equating literal adultery — something that most people consider a Very Bad Thing — with something that most people indulge in and that very few people now see as a big deal, you are by definition minimizing the significance of Trump’s adultery, no matter how you try to deny it.

Beyond that, Sweeney’s main goal seems to be to use porn to attack the sexual revolution that began in the 1960s.

“If anything can be attributed to the sexual revolution, it is the widespread popularization of pornography,” he asserts.

It is the crowning achievement of a culture that treats sex flippantly, stripping it of its beauty and purpose, leaving only the bodily function. We have reduced sex to transactional entertainment and created a generation of pornography-addicted consumers, hiding behind the anonymity of a computer screen. 

Whatever your feelings about porn, to portray its current popularity as the “crowning achievement” of the sexual revolution is, I think, profoundly dishonest. The sexual revolution was about many things, but at its essence it was about sexual freedom, enabling those who lived through it or who grew up in its wake to approach sex with less stigma and needless guilt.

It’s given women sexual autonomy they never had before, and helped to enable LGBTQ folks to fight for and win basic rights previously denied them. It’s revolutionized the way our society thinks about sexual consent, helping to  reduce rapes and to render unacceptable the sort of sexual harassment that used to be rampant in the workplace.

We still have a long way to go on all these issues, but there’s no question that the sexual revolution has helped us to make progress on all of them.

Sweeney tries to present himself as a sort of white night for married women victimized by their husband’s “virtual adultery” in the form of porn use. But his real agenda seems to be to push back against a sexual revolution that has benefitted women in countless ways.

His piece isn’t simply a bad take; it’s an insidious one. He’s doing no favors for the women he pretends to be defending.

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tim gueguen
1 year ago

BTW, bruno sardine, what are you going on about?

Bina
1 year ago

@Bruno Sardine:

Certain men can slut shame and abuse women and still getting laid just fine, but you get to be a good boy and fight the evils of sexual repression and misogyny for a resentful handjob once a month. You get to be held to a higher standard. Stormy appreciates your hard work.

fat balding male feminist who worships ‘mature and experienced’ women in exchange for le sexy times=ultimate stud

Whatsamatter, widdle fishie…you jealous, bro?

Freemage
Freemage
1 year ago

So, from the top:

I’ve got mixed feelings about porn. It’s one of those things where, in a perfect world, there’d be no issues, but between the patriarchal state of media (which gets heightened by the sexual content, normalizing increasingly abusive expectations in real sex) and the fact that the industry is hideously abusive as a whole, it’s a horribly depressing reality to deal with.

Of course, since right-wing assholes can’t be bothered worrying about either rape culture or actual abuse of women, they have to find the worst possible way to discuss the downsides of porn by channeling religious fundamentalist woo without even the usual pretense of Christian compassion. A pox on their house.

*************

The Eliza Dushku thing is astounding on so many levels. And yes, it does make me wonder about the rotating cast of female leads on NCIS, specifically those who would’ve been constantly working with him.

It does further make me despise NDAs, which I’m increasingly regarding as a violation of the First Amendment. At most, an NDA should be allowed to force a ‘no profit’ rule–you can’t just sell your story to the Enquirer or TMZ. But just straightforward talking to the media? No penalty for that. At worst, you stop receiving further payments from the settlement, but any payments already made should be untouchable.

***********

My wife had just brought the Sec’y of Defense resignation to my attention. (Trump, BTW, is calling it a ‘retirement’, but the letter makes it very clear he’s just quitting because he’s got a bunch of fairly strong ideals that Trump is totally lacking in.)

***********

Yes, wth is bruno sardine on about? Can anyone parse that inanity? I mean, I usually can make a good go of it, but that was just pathetic.

Citerior Motive
Citerior Motive
1 year ago

To be fair, what does or doesn’t constitute cheating depends on the parameters of the relationship—in a polyamorous relationship sex with outside people isn’t considered cheating, at least some of the time. If a couple want to decide, mutually, that watching porn constitutes adultery, I don’t really have a problem with that. Where this dipshit crosses the line is in trying to impose his puritanical definition on the rest of us.

Pretty sure if you asked him about polyamory, he’d just start slinging the cuck word around, anyway.

Justin
Justin
1 year ago

Gotta be honest, I’m of two minds on the anti-porn/masturbation thing. On the one hand, there are WAY WORSE things out there than porn, & the argument that porn leads to any number of societal ills is definitely a case of correlation not necessarily being causation.

BUT

Based on my own experiences with pornography (for the most part strictly softcore [an odd concept, softcore pornography. Only women nude = softcore; nude men = hardcore]) and onanism, I feel I can say it does have some deleterious effects. My sexual experiences with women have been limited in this life (I think neither good nor ill of that most of the time; it’s simply the way my life has worked out. My eccentricities may simply be too much for most women to want to bear. C’est la vie), but if I could be candid, while I’ve had no complaints on their end from my partners, I have had difficult in achieving orgasm when with a woman, I think due to years of porn intake (also possibly due to issues I have trusting anyone at all, male or female, but that’s off-topic), so if someone wants to refrain from masturbation because they think it’s giving them issues with intimacy, then they should be supported so long as their path doesn’t lead to sanctimony. Unfortunately, that appears to seldom be the case, at least based on reports here. Full disclosure: this site’s reporting on these issues is as close I get to them. If you’re a recovering addict, you don’t go to the crack house, if you take my meaning.

At least that’s my thinking on this. Sorry if my post was a little highbrow in terms of language. I’m also trying to be less coarse in how I speak.

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
1 year ago

Yes, wth is bruno sardine on about? Can anyone parse that inanity? I mean, I usually can make a good go of it, but that was just pathetic.

adjusts glasses and opens MRA-to-English dictionary

Certain men can slut shame and abuse women and still getting laid just fine,

“Women only like bad boys that abuse them. Everything I understand about women is from porn and Hollywood.”

but you get to be a good boy and fight the evils of sexual repression and misogyny for a resentful handjob once a month.

“David, you’re a white knight. These bitches won’t ever put out for you ’cause you don’t abuse them. Sexual repression and misogyny isn’t real. I know this because I read other people complaining about it on reddit, and possibly have also cratered a relationship into the ground. All women are identical.”

You get to be held to a higher standard. Stormy appreciates your hard work.

“White knights like you won’t get laid. Women use your hard work and never pay you back with sex. I think all women are essentially prostitutes, and my source of news is Breitbart and /r/TheDonald.”

fat balding male feminist who worships ‘mature and experienced’ women in exchange for le sexy times=ultimate stud

“I don’t have anything to say other than ‘you’re a white knight’, but I also want to insult you again, so I’m going to embellish a bit.”

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
1 year ago

I’m just wondering when David is going to make his move and try to sleep with us. Trolls have been accusing him of doing this blog just to pick up feminists for the past 8 years, but I’ve yet to seem actually try and pick any of his readers up. He must be really playing the long game here.

Shadowplay
1 year ago

@wwth

It’s Heartiste’s fault. David took the lesson on spinning plates (for research purposes, of course) but didn’t take the follow-up on letting plates down.

So now he’s stuck, keeping all the readers spinning.

Gaebolga
Gaebolga
1 year ago

weirwoodtreehugger wrote:

He must be really playing the long game here.

Ol’ David is a cunning beastie….

Cat Mara
Cat Mara
1 year ago

Darn it, I didn’t get my resentful handjob this month! Do I have to fill in a form or something?

Obligatory image from a previous thread:

http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/1545046145-20181217.png

Cat Mara
Cat Mara
1 year ago

I kind of want to design a “White Knight Compensation Voucher” now. As in:

“This voucher entitles the bearer to:
– One (1) cookie (generic brand, 20% max cocoa solids)
– One (1) resentful handjob (no eye contact, lubrication not provided)
– Five (5) minutes feigned interest in the operation of Bitcoin

All sales final. Void where prohibited.”

😛

Any more ideas?

opposablethumbs
opposablethumbs
1 year ago

– Five (5) minutes feigned interest in the operation of Bitcoin

Pitch-perfect. Thank you for making me laugh! 😀

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
1 year ago

Can we also throw in a lecture about how Walter White is the badest ass character of all time?

Lumipuna (formerly Arctic Ape)
Lumipuna (formerly Arctic Ape)
1 year ago

“digital prostitutes”

Is that the daughters of Mrs. Palm?

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
1 year ago

I am sitting on a discord and there is a dude talking about blockchain and how it will revolutionize the online gaming universe.

His screen name is GaryBlockChainHashCryptoWeedCoin.

I am not exaggerating or joking about this at all, this is absolutely the name i am looking at on the screen. These are human persons that exist.

kupo
kupo
1 year ago

@Scildfreja
I cannot stop laughing at the horrible, horrible game engine that dude is going to create.

Cat Mara
Cat Mara
1 year ago

@Scildfreja Unnyðnes:

His screen name is GaryBlockChainHashCryptoWeedCoin.

I am… in awe. It is like a bingo card of terrible, compressed into a nym.
comment image

(protip: much like how whines about “political correctness gone mad” can be improved by mentally search/replacing “political correctness” with “people being respectful to one another”, blockchain rants can similarly be improved by replacing all instances of “blockchain” with “a very slow database”)

Jane Done
Jane Done
1 year ago

@Scildfreja Unnyðnes

adjusts glasses

I immediately imagined anime

comment image

Bina
1 year ago

@WWTH:

I’m just wondering when David is going to make his move and try to sleep with us. Trolls have been accusing him of doing this blog just to pick up feminists for the past 8 years, but I’ve yet to seem actually try and pick any of his readers up. He must be really playing the long game here.

Yeah. It’s almost like…(drops voice)…he’s a decent chap, or something.

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
1 year ago

comment image

Jane: your impression is accurate

as for hashblokecryptoweedcoinman, he’s exactly what you would expect o_o

Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
1 year ago

@WWTH

I’m just wondering when David is going to make his move and try to sleep with us. Trolls have been accusing him of doing this blog just to pick up feminists for the past 8 years, but I’ve yet to seem actually try and pick any of his readers up. He must be really playing the long game here.

Clearly, David prefers older women and he’s waiting for us to get older. How much older? Only he knows.

Alexis Filth
Alexis Filth
1 year ago

My husband and I both enjoy porn. But it’s really funny. Before he came out as trans, back when he was my wife he would only watch gay porn. All gay, all the time. Now he watches tons of straight porn.
He’s still a gay man, still only really interested in dudes, and the only explanation he can come up with for the switch in tastes is that there’s more holes to be filled in straight porn.
I came out as nonbinary shortly after he came out as trans (dealing with his dysphoria helped me recognize my own), but my tastes haven’t changed.
Don’t know what, if anything, it means, just a funny anecdote I guess.