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Men “bring life into the world” because their sperm swim, while the eggs just sit there, Galaxy-Brained Redditor explains

His boys can swim!

By David Futrelle

Turns out that women aren’t just improperly appreciative of men because back in the cavemen days it was (allegedly) the cavemen that hunted the mammoth to feed their lazy women sitting eating bon-bons in their caves.

Women also don’t appreciate all the hard work that sperm do, swimming all the way to the eggs while the lazy eggs just sit there eating bon-bons in their caves.

At least that’s the claim being made by this big-brained Redditor:

Men bring life into this world. (self.unpopularopinion) submitted 10 days ago by I-hate-trump Im tired of women patting themselves on the back for having kids and claiming there would not be babies if it was not for their vagina. Men put life into women, our sperm literally swims. If it's swimming it is the beginning of life. The egg is totally secondary. And you know what? Its doesn't stop there. We are our there working, fixing shit when it breaks, fighting the wars and are expected to being home the bacon....all the while women can opt out of work anytime to be a "wonderful mother". I'm calling bullshit.

Don’t laugh! This guy has SCIENCE on his side. 17th-century science, at least.

At the tail end of the 17th century, after the invention of microscopes allowed scientists to see those little swimming spermies for the first time, the smart set of the day decided that these vigorous little fellows just had to be the real source of life on earth. As biologist Robert D Martin notes in an article in Aeon,

philosophers and some students of reproduction [held that] the egg was merely a passive receptacle waiting for vigorous sperm to arrive to trigger development. And sperm? The head of each contained a tiny preformed human being – a homunculus, to be exact. The Dutch mathematician and physicist Nicolaas Hartsoeker, inventor of the screw-barrel microscope, drew his image of the homunculus when sperm became visible for the first time in 1695. He did not actually see a homunculus in the sperm head, Hartsoeker conceded at the time, but he convinced himself that it was there.

He thought it looked like this:

It’s pretty cute, I have to admit — look at those teensy little fingers and toes! But I still like the Homer Simpson sperms better.

H/T — Found this one via the Blue Pill subreddit

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Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
1 year ago

Tell ya what, guys. Men can take credit for bringing life into the world once they risk separation of the pubic symphysis for a couple of months. Deal?

Lucy
Lucy
1 year ago

Hartsoeker’s drawing reminds me of the Steelers logo.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Does he not realize the egg journeys down the fallopian tube to get to the uterus and eventually possibly meet up with sperms?

Guess not.

Not to mention all the work a pregnant person’s body does nourishing and carrying the zygote/embryo/fetus. But sure, did dudes deserve a medal for ejaculating.

Ray of Rays
Ray of Rays
1 year ago

Wrong even by the standards of 1800. Exponentionally wrong by current science. Even setting aside the work the egg does, as I understand it the vagina and uterus do a large part of the work of screening, moving(!), and removing sperm.

Is there a word that applies to “taking even more credit for a woman’s work than previously-understood?” I don’t think it’s “ironic,” since it’s more of an “expected-but-worse” concept…

Morgaine le Fée
Morgaine le Fée
1 year ago

Well, some years ago there was a commercial, here in Sweden, to attract students to a certain university. (I tried to find the video, but didn’t succeed, sorry).
A group of sperms were swimming towards an egg. The one going to be the “winner” was talking to himself (with a masculine voice), figuring out what he wanted to be once grown up.
That was to “represent the possibilities offered by studying at that university”.

This commercial was approved by a university, an education place which should counteract those anti-scientific, sexist, outdated concepts.
And I was also disappointed that it was coming from a Swedish university, in a country where I expected to find an higher level of knowledge and consciousness about these issues.

Shadowplay
1 year ago

Is there a word that applies to “taking even more credit for a woman’s work than previously-understood?”

Customary is the word you are looking for.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

I think it’s interesting that this guy is praising the valiant conquest of the egg by the successful alpha sperm. What about the beta male incel sperm that the evil slutty eggs reject? Someone should think of poor, nice sperms. If we’re not careful, some of those incel sperms are going to be taking guns and vans into the uteri with them and wreaking havoc. And those mean, degenerate, cuckolding eggs will have it coming too. Has someone alerted Jordan Peterson to this great injustice yet?

Kiwiwriter
Kiwiwriter
1 year ago

This guy flunked out of home-school biology, did he?

Katamount
Katamount
1 year ago

Every day, the internet just gives another reason why sex ed curricula are important. This means you, Douglas Ford.

Castrating Harpy
Castrating Harpy
1 year ago

These guys who think that they do all the life-giving to create a baby should see what an embryo looks like without the aid of a body to grow in. That’s the extent of their contribution. All life past that point came from the person carrying the fetus.

epronovost
epronovost
1 year ago

Does that guy knows that “being a wonderful mother” is a LOT of work. It takes hours of your day. It can leave you exhausted. It can be very rewarding emotionaly speaking and extremely draining at the same time. It requires a lot more skills then one might thing, especially in the interpersonal category. I hate it when people say that parents who stay home full time “don’t work”, they do work, they just don’t get paid for it. As for the science part… well… maybe they should open books once in a while instead of internet programs. Also the reason many women “pat themselves on the back” for having children is because of pregnancy. Pregnancy can be awesome, but it can be very hard. Nobody likes morning sickness, back pain, some of the hormonal flux can be terrible and you can actually die from it. If pregnancy was a job, it would be in the top ten of the most deadly jobs in the US. It’s 50% deadlier then working as a cop. In my opinion, living though that is reason to give oneself a tap on the back once in a while.

Iseult The Idle
Iseult The Idle
1 year ago

@Kiwiwriter – I don’t want to contemplate what “home-school biology” might entail for some of these people.

Also, why do they assume sperm are male? About half of them contain an X chromosome.

Gijoel
Gijoel
1 year ago

@ Victorious Parasol

Or preeclampsia, or gestational diabetes, or placenta previa, or vasa previa, or placental aburption, or ectopic pregnancy. The list is unending, but these idiots don’t care.

Bananananana dakry: Short-Haired, Fat, and Deranged
Bananananana dakry: Short-Haired, Fat, and Deranged
1 year ago

@Gijoel

Or fistulas.
*shudder*

Rattus
Rattus
1 year ago

The seed isn’t the most important part of a plant’s sprouting, it’s the bullshit that is mixed in with the soil. The seed just sits there waiting. The shit actually has to make some effort.

SpukiKitty
SpukiKitty
1 year ago

I just love the term “Galaxy Brained” for some reason. It gives me a good chuckle.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
December 14, 2018 at 2:58 pm

Does he not realize the egg journeys down the fallopian tube to get to the uterus and eventually possibly meet up with sperms?

Guess not.

Not to mention all the work a pregnant person’s body does nourishing and carrying the zygote/embryo/fetus. But sure, did dudes deserve a medal for ejaculating.

Don’t forget the stuff with the labor pain, contractions, delivery, etc. Women deserve a giant solid gold trophy for that!

Bina
1 year ago

“Being home the bacon” should become a catchphrase symbolizing how far out to sea these guys are when it comes to reproduction. I mean, the other day I saw one of them on Facebook, seriously and earnestly comparing an ejaculation to being in labor. Never mind that the one is accompanied by an orgasm and the other by mind-warping pain. He seriously thought the two were the same damn thing, and that it was proof that men “work just as hard, if not harder” to create life.

Yes, REALLY.

Bacon and eggs, folks…bacon and eggs.

Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
1 year ago

Here’s an interesting article about how much work a uterus does.

Jane Done
Jane Done
1 year ago

Thing is, when you say “morning sickness”, the vast majority of men think “she’s got tummy twubles, the poor princess”.

My mom was hospitalised for “tummy twubles”, and nearly died. For three pregnancies. In. A. Row.

But women are too weak to experience real suffering, so clearly this is all a lie and neither my mom nor my sibling or I exist. #deepstate

Full Metal Ox
1 year ago

Is it just me, or does Nicolaas Hartsoeker’s concept of a spermatic homunculus look remarkably like a mirrored set of buttocks?

MrsObedMarsh
MrsObedMarsh
1 year ago

The funny thing about the homunculus is that, if a homunculus is male, it must have a bunch of homunculi-filled sperm in its testes. And some of the homunculi in the homunculus’ sperm are also male, meaning they ALSO have homunculi-filled sperm, some of which are also male, meaning…

It’s homunculi all the way down

Citerior Motive
Citerior Motive
1 year ago

Infinitas humunculorum.

AsAboveSoBelow
AsAboveSoBelow
1 year ago

WWTH:

If we’re not careful, some of those incel sperms are going to be taking guns and vans into the uteri with them and wreaking havoc.

They totally would if they could.

Jane Done:

My mom was hospitalised for “tummy twubles”, and nearly died. For three pregnancies. In. A. Row.

Hyperemesis gravidarum? I didn’t know that could happen until I read about Kate Middleton going through it with each of her pregnancies.

Genjones
Genjones
1 year ago

Eggs are expensive, sperm is cheap. Hence, sexual selection where the woman assesses the value of potential mates, as they are sacrificing more resources forv the sake of reproduction. And incidentally, sperm are not necessary. They are just vehicles, modern technology can get the genes implanted without even the need for a man to donate cells. But eggs and wombs are not replicatable or replaceable.

Jane Done
Jane Done
1 year ago

@AsAboveSoBelow: never really found out the exact cause, parents avoided going to the doctor cause of poverty/religion. Probably also just assumed suffering is a natural part of a woman’s role, cause hardcore mennonites.

Bina
1 year ago

OT, but have to share: I don’t know which amuses me more, the fact that Steve Fucking Bannon is going down swinging like a mofo, or the possibility that as many as a hundred women have had to be paid to keep quiet about seeing Donnie’s unprepossessing junk.

And just to draaaaaaaaag it back to topic again: The sperm that made him is the one that “won”. Not that it was ever much of a contest, seeing what stock the paternal side of his family tree was made of. (Germany didn’t want Opa Drumpf back when he was deported for absconding to the US as a draft dodger. He later made his real-estate fortune as a pimp in the Far North. Kind of touching to see Donnie carrying on that tradition, after his weaselly fashion…)

Barkdog
Barkdog
1 year ago

Homunculi are real. Goethe put one in the second part of Faust; it even talked, if I remember correctly.

Podkayne Lives
Podkayne Lives
1 year ago

“Men do all the science and shit. It just so happens that I, personally, haven’t bothered to learn about anything that’s been figured out since Aristotle.”

Speaking of Aristotle, Mary Renault gets a cute little bit into “Fire From Heaven” where she suggests that some of Aristotle’s less realistic ideas come from the fact that he’s got the young Alexander and his friends out doing the observing in nature bit for him. The boys are bored, and just go hunting. Then they make shit up when asked about their observations.

Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
1 year ago

Okay so let me see if I understand. People with female sexual anatomy (which I don’t like to use because nb and trans men also have so called “female anatomy”) must suffer menstrual pains every month(sometime so bad to go to hospital), and the pain in the ass of periods generally, if everyhting is working “normally”. they must suffer the most painful and upsetting kinds of birth control with terrible side effects. and also can suffer PCOS and endometriosis. And after this if they chose to become pregnant they must deal with massive body change, society expectations of “how to be pregnant correctly” (not gain “too much” weight, don’t be a “crazy” pregnant person, want to get pregnant in the first place and want children), then all side effects and problems with possibility of miscarriage which is very common in first time pregnancy. And then at the end give birth which is not like a movie and is full with complications and risks and sometimes involves a full surgery. And after society expects them to lose weight, look the same as before pregnancy, be the same person as before pregnancy, not become a “boring mother” who only cares about her kids – but also to do all the care for the kids 🙃. And then even want to do it all again!

And this asshole thinks he’s special just because sperm can swim?

Not only do women and people with female anatomy do all the work and suffer in silence with pain and discomfort and expectations of society – they are expected to enjoy it! Children are a “gift”. Pregnancy is “beautiful”. So many men (like the ones in the last article) say they “give women” children, as if women do nothing, as if to say “I gave you what you want, why are you not happy?” but they never take the chance to listen to what women want, they ignore their experience becuase “periods are gross” and pregnancy and children are “women’s business”. And yet they still think they know what women want? 🙃

dust bunny
dust bunny
1 year ago

@ Genjones

Eggs are expensive, sperm is cheap. Hence, sexual selection where the woman assesses the value of potential mates, as they are sacrificing more resources forv the sake of reproduction.

I question this. It “makes sense” in an econ, evo-psych kind of way, and it’s easy enough to find “evidence” for it. But if you actually ask women and men and have an ounce of sense about historical and societal context and relationships, there are very obvious ways why women behave the way they do that have literally nothing to do with low-level genetically coded hard-wired behaviours.

Women are choosier when it comes to sex partners even now when there is very low risk of pregnancy if you use birth control, because sex is still magnitudes less appealing and more dangerous to them than it is for men. Women are choosier when it comes to romantic/domestic partners because they bear a disproportionate share of the responsibilities within a hetero relationship, are at considerably higher risk of violence in the context of one, and statistically get less out of it.

So how about we just abstain from making too many judgments about how women must be hard-wired until we can observe what they do absent these constraints? If you ask me the fact that hetero women date at all speaks to self-destructive levels of non-choosiness if anything.

Samantha Ravensdaughter
Samantha Ravensdaughter
1 year ago

You know, the utter stupidity and fear that drives these guys is becoming cripplingly boring. Seriously. They are so very afraid that they are going to be rendered obsolete that they are rendering themselves obsolete.

The human ovum actually contains far more genetic information than the sperm does. For one thing, the mitochondria, without which we could not exist or generate and utilize energy, is passed solely by the mother, which is one of the reasons the egg is so much larger than the little swimmies that men are so concerned about.

Frankly, it is my opinion that women could reproduce without men far more easily than men could without women.

For me, though, the burning question/issue is this – Why the hell are men so full of rage, fear and hatred towards women? I find it very hard to believe that all of their angst stems from being sometimes rejected by the women they desire, or from mothers of their children wanting enough money to support the kids. There has to be something else that is behind millenia of murderous rage.

I would love to read some opinions on this.

Who?
Who?
1 year ago

I want to say congratulation to the guy first. He at last realised that you need men and women contributions for a person to be born.

On the other hand: Sperm is more important because reasons is were the intelligence ended.
DNA-wise every persons DNA comes 50% percent from the mother, 50% from the father.
Any discusion about what is more important for the creation of life is silly.
(Now the argument that we wouldn’t exist whitout women and this is a reason why men should respect women more is not silly)

Now pregnancy yeah that is a harsh deal for women (thank God less deadly at last in the first world than in former times) Dangerous still and very unpleasant. So nothink to ignore like I-hate-Trump does.

But most important for me in the question of parent is are you there for your child, when he or she is growing up.
Here a lot of men absolutly suck.

(And I stopp the rambling now)

Saeva
Saeva
1 year ago

And then there is this interesting experiment…

Jane Done
Jane Done
1 year ago

@Genjones, dust bunny:

Yeah, about that “choosiness” (hint: it’s a social construct)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19754525

Also the “expensive eggs, cheap sperm” argument is so cliche and ill-defined, we need a more specific, concrete, objective measurement, preferably with peer-reviewed data, before any serious conclusion can be made.

dust bunny
dust bunny
1 year ago

@ Samatha

It’s what oppression does to oppressors. When your identity, self worth and whole way of life depends on screwing someone else over you come to hate them. It’s a psychological mechanism. You also become suspicious of them and deeply fearful that they will get justice for themselves, because you’re dependent on them, while they can only be freed of you. When your group has higher status than another group, you learn to subtly dehumanize the others and lose a lot of your normal human capacity for trust and empathy for them and become incapable of ever learning from them.

Exact same thing that is going on with rich people and white people.

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
1 year ago

@Jane Done:

Also the “expensive eggs, cheap sperm” argument is so cliche and ill-defined, we need a more specific, concrete, objective measurement, preferably with peer-reviewed data, before any serious conclusion can be made.

Since the argument is that female animals invest much more (energy, risk, etc.) in a pregnancy than male animals do, the obvious test would seem to be to measure a) gestational period, b) female choosiness, and c) male choosiness in a sizable sample of mammal species (avoiding domesticated ones, whose behavior has been modified by generations of artificial selection, probably toward low choosiness so any two animals the humans on the farm decide to mate and put in a pen together will do so).

If the ratio between b and c correlates significantly with a, then the case might be made. Though even then, it may be that for humans all bets are off as we’ve selectively bred ourselves for generations to at least some degree.

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
1 year ago

OK, why doesn’t my comment show up on “recent comments” even though it does show up on the actual page?

Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
1 year ago

@surplus

It shows for me.
I’m using Google chrome app on my phone.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
1 year ago

So much of fertilization imagery revolves around bold, macho, warhead-tipped sperm vigorously competing to penetrate a passive, aging egg. More recent research suggests that this metaphor isn’t very accurate. It turns out sperm are actually fairly terrible swimmers. They’re better at getting away from things. If you put a small suction pipette against them, their heads thrash from side to side ten times as strongly as the forward movement of their bodies. It makes sense – you don’t want sperm that are good at burrowing, or else they’d burrow into the first obstacle they encountered. You want sperm that are good at escaping.

Sperm have a difficult time swimming through the cervical mucus (this is where the contractions of the female orgasm are helpful). Other recent research has discovered that, far from competing with each other, sperm take turns up front parting the strands of mucus, like drafting bicyclists. They’re more cooperative than previously thought. (It’s actually eggs that are the competitive loners – only one matures each month, and suppresses the others).

Meanwhile, the egg puts out chemical signals that attract the sperm, and undergoes further changes that trigger the sperm to release proteins that keep it tethered to the surface. In essence, the sperm gets sucked in and pinned down. Eggs might be better described as eager rather than passive. In many species, such as lizards, insects, some crustaceans, and even turkeys, the egg can even begin dividing without fertilization.

It’s no mystery why fertilization imagery is so male-skewed. Men link potency to strong sperm. There’s a tendency to think that gametes are miniature versions of ourselves (understandable since they carry our DNA), and that fertilization re-enacts PIV sex on a smaller scale. Macho men like to think of their sperm as little torpedoes, and eggs as helpless damsels awaiting the bold victor’s final plunge. That bias has crept into our scientific understanding, where the majority of researchers are men. How you frame the process of fertilization affects what you look for. We need new metaphors to describe the beginning stages of life.

Oh, and another fun fact for Mr. Bringer of Life: a significant proportion (10-25%) of sperm-egg combinations are incompatible with life due to chromosomal abnormalities, even when both contributors have no known genetic risks. Sperm aren’t some kind of Promethean torch that arrive from on high to kindle an inert egg into life. They’re both living organisms. It’s essentially a dice roll whether any two of them will go on to become a live birth.

Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
1 year ago

Nice post buttercup!

I didn’t know it is so high percentage of egg/sperm combinations that will have defects. It seems very fortunate that so many babies are born alive at all!

bluecat
bluecat
1 year ago

Not only does the egg travel to meet the sperm, the sperm can only make any progress when the cervical environment is right – the mucus changes around ovulation time to carry the sperm forward. Otherwise, apparently, it’s like swimming the Atlantic only to find it’s full of glue.

Cue rant about ruddy free-loading homunculi getting a free ride through the cervix.

And can we take it that the OP doesn’t know the sperm carries the X or the Y chromosome?

Well, of course – dude knows nothing bout nothing.

Rabid Rabbit
Rabid Rabbit
1 year ago

@Samantha Ravensdaughter

There has to be something else that is behind millenia of murderous rage.

You’re right. It goes back millenia. See, we men have never got over the fact that for ages, women hid the fact that we were involved in reproduction. We thought you were these magical parthenogenic creatures we got to have sex with for fun some times. Then one day we realized that there was a link between sex and pregnancy, and we’ve never recovered from the deception. At this point, we split into the “Wimminz be stealing my sperm!” camp and the “Gahdammit, wimminz are gonna make me pay for the diapers!” camp. So women had been deceiving us, women had been using us, and now women were trying to make us responsible for things and making us bring home the mammoth for the kids as well.

Note: This post contains sarcasm. But I’m pretty sure some chucklehead somewhere has made this argument.

Viscaria
Viscaria
1 year ago

Im tired of women patting themselves on the back for having kids and claiming there would not be babies if it was not for their vagina.

You know what, buddy? Me too. There is just way too much of that, and it just has to stop. Why, just the other day I was in line for the bank. In front of me, a woman would not stop shouting “Babies would not exist if it were not for vaginas!” It just seemed so unnecessary.

And then, of course, there’s that all-too-familiar scene at the grocery store. We’ve all witnessed it. A toddler has a meltdown in the cereal aisle. A man, embarrassed, furtively tries to calm or distract the child. Above him, a woman declares, “You see that kid? I had that kid! Yeah, me! Go me!”

I paid my cousin a visit not too long ago. “Wow, your kids are sure getting big,” I said. She stared straight into my eyes and replied, “CONGRATULATIONS TO ME.

And is it too much to ask that just once I go over to my mom’s place for dinner and not hear “Your dad couldn’t have made you alone, you know; I was a critical piece of the child-making process”? I mean, it’s true, but do we need to talk about it over the risotto, Mom?

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
1 year ago

Viscaria, you are a treasure

Shadowplay
1 year ago

Eh. The guy makes a lot of sense. The odd times he’s had sex with someone else the woman has just laid there, unmoving.

Therefore, the man MUST be doing all of the work in conception.

Q.E,D.

Right?

Crip Dyke
1 year ago

Two things:

First, “we fight the wars”. Really? You think that’s a point in your favor?
News flash: NOBODY LIKES WARS.

…and Second, is there a subreddit for bad male anatomy?

Who?
Who?
1 year ago

Viscaria:
If I had read your mesage a little bit before, it could have very well be that you would have owned me a new keyboard.
Well done.

Cat Mara
Cat Mara
1 year ago

Our sperm literally swims…

That’s one way of describing it, I guess. I suspect these geniuses have watched way too many “miracle of life” documentaries, anthropomorphising furiously as they did so… they probably imagine their guys swimming upstream in perfect Michael Phelps-like synchrony, rather than that frantic bathtub-toy flail that spermatozoa actually do… hell, they probably imagine that fusion with the egg to form the zygote is accompanied by a swelling choral soundtrack of some kind while a portentous voice (Morgan Freeman?) intones, “… and the circle of life is complete” 😂 Or maybe nowadays, a burst of video game jingle and an “achievement unlocked” sign 😂

ellesar
ellesar
1 year ago

fighting the wars and

starting the wars. Sorry, I know it is different men, but women are not starting these wars and expecting men to fight them.

Years ago older women were primarily blamed for Down’s Syndrome, it took a very long time for me to find reports not only refuting that, but also examining the higher levels of birth defects that older men sperm creates.

”Some studies have linked increasing paternal age (over 40 or so years) with higher rates of conditions like autism and schizophrenia. Others have observed increased rates of birth abnormalities, such as heart defects, musculoskeletal abnormalities, and Down’s syndrome.

Mouse studies also support this. Studies have shown that mice born to “old” fathers (over two years old) performed poorly on tests of learning and memory, and also had a reduced lifespan and less reproductive success themselves. Mice with slightly younger fathers (10 months old) were less social.

The researchers say that although the mechanism behind this is not established, most evidence points in the direction of DNA methylation. Animal studies have shown higher rates of DNA methylation in the sperm cells of older rats compared with younger rats.”

Found on NHS site

As someone who has carried and birthed children I cannot say that in this regard women have it easy. If it wasn’t for the excellent healthcare I was able to access I would quite possibly have lost my first child and suffered some serious damage to my own health.

AsAboveSoBelow
AsAboveSoBelow
1 year ago

So much of fertilization imagery revolves around bold, macho, warhead-tipped sperm vigorously competing to penetrate a passive, aging egg.

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