By David Futrelle
On Sunday, the Australian “Fortnite” streamer known as MrDeadMoth was arrested after inadvertently broadcasting an argument with his wife that ended with him — just off camera — allegedly hitting her in the face while one of their children screamed in the background.
Naturally, some of the internet’s worst people are defending him and blaming his wife for “provoking” him into hitting her.
“MrDeadMoth didn’t do anything Wrong,” declared someone calling himself Burrito6920 on Reddit’s UnpopularOpinion subreddit.
Let’s say he did hit her. Guess what, she fucking deserves it. She’s a loud, shitty wife. She throws shit at him and acts like she’s more important than him. If your man tells you to leave him the fuck alone, you leave him the fuck alone. … If he hit her it can be justified as self defense from her verbal and physical harassment.
And even if it’s not legally justifiable, she’s a fucking bitch. Just because she’s pregnant doesn’t make her better than or special over anybody else. … [A]ny person that’s that much of a c*nt needs to be taught not to be such a c*nt.
While this opinion has indeed proven to be an unpopular one on r/UnpopularOpinion, with other Redditors voting the post down to zero, similar arguments have been getting a much more welcoming reception on KotakuInAction, Reddit’s main forum for reactionary gamers, a subreddit that still officially describes itself as “the main hub for GamerGate on Reddit.”
“She was abusing and violent towards him,” someone called Gathrax asserted in a comment in a KotakuInACtion discussion of the incident.
Everything she did was to make it sound as bad as possible on stream. This was classic female vindictive abuse.
They both suck but I am sick of people saying it was his fault when all he did was a simple Sean Connery to get her to stop abusing him and maybe even abusing the kid.
This comment got 77 upvotes from fellow KotakuInAction readers.
“I don’t want to say she’s ‘asking for it’ but she’s basically asking for it,” another commenter called tosi-ebin opined.
A classic case of “how long can my man take abuse and try and de-escalate the situation before he loses his shit”. The “crying” stops real quick and she comes back for more each time.
Tosi-ebin got 38 upvotes for this, er, wisdom.
“Ladies, at this point, can we all just admit that an ass whoopin’ just doesn’t fall out of the goddamn sky?” wrote yet another KotakuInAction commenter called astonwave.
Don’t get me wrong, they’re both horrible fucking people for putting their child in this situation, but she essentially instigated this by throwing shit at him, and people are surprised he’d had enough and retaliated?
A commenter called spliffcitycanada joked “Save yourselves, go mgtow.”
All of these comments also got upvoted by the KotakuInAction gang.
Meanwhile, over on the internet Nazi tip sheet the Daily Stormer, one of the site’s regular contributors offered a strikingly similar, if somewhat more colorfully worded, defense of the alleged wife beater — then worked some anti-Semitism into the mix.
“Twitch Streamer MrDeadMoth Arrested for Defending Self Against Hysterical Aggressive Fronthole” the headline blared.
In the article itself, the Daily Stormer’s “Luis Castillo” attacked the wife for not being properly appreciative of her husband.
“This man apparently gave this woman a place to live and have kids, and bought her some food for her to cook for him, which she cooked as a service to him,” he wrote.
Then she went full aggro on him for not eating the food she made for him. …
Women will do any sort of shit they can get away with. This used to not even be a problem, because our grandfathers used to not let them get away with stupid shit. This continues to not be a problem outside of the West, because non-Westerners continue to not let their women get away with stupid shit.
This is only a problem in the West, now, because the Jews created Feminism and pushed it on us through their control of our cultural institutions and legal system.
Most of the Daily Stormers commenters agreed.
“This is the perfect example of a psycho wife using psychological assault,” declared a commenter called ashenone.
“The pimp-slap heard aroud the world” someone calling himself Xbowjoe1 joked.
“He should have fucking punched her in the mouth and locked her in a room and told her to think about what she did,” declared bossn*gger.
But not every Daily Stormer commenter was quite so impressed with MrDeadMoth. Someone called Alt-Reich attacked him as a “f*ggot” — not for beating his wife, but for playing video games in the first place.
That guys is a fucking f*g and a disgrace as a dad, how many hours has he been playing that game …
[A]re you seriously defending this f*ggot! A lot of men seem to know all there is about how fucked up women are now (they are), but they need to take a good look in the mirror, because they too have become absolute disgraces as Men…
Jews own most guys now, they have fucked up the men as much as the women … .
It shouldn’t be much of a shock to see commenters on Reddit’s “main hub for GamerGate” in close agreement with Daily Stormer Nazis — that last anti-gamer comment notwithstanding.
The Daily Stormer’s Andrew Anglin cut his political teeth — and learned how to troll — in the fetid misogynistic and anti-Semitic swamp that is 4chan’s /pol/ board. 4chan also helped to birth the GamerGate movement and the reactionary gamer culture left in its wake; GamerGate was steeped in fascist (and often blatantly antisemitic) imagery even before the resurgence of the far-right in 2015 and 2016.
Of course, during the heyday of GamerGate, commenters on KotakuInAction at least generally tried to pretend that they weren’t raging misogynists. They don’t seem to feel the need to bother any more.
You can see the whole incident these lovely people are arguing about here.
H/T — Thanks to Twitter’s @0utofBeta for tipping me off about this.
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Let’s keep in mind that fighting back is a good way to get a woman dead. Which will, of course, be blamed on her for fighting back and escalating (just look at the responses to this incident). Also, leaving the relationship is another good way for a woman to get dead. And yet the “solutions” offered are always about those two things being the best options and never about how to get men to stop abusing their partners and family. ?
@Rhuu – apparently an illiterati
Beeeeliiiieve me; I agree that prevention, avoidance and de-escalation is best and I agree that in this situation this young woman walloping him would’ve made things worse.
I wrote what I wrote in a moment of anger and I tend to get ridiculous. I still stand by the general concept of a woman being able to fight back but I agree that deescalation is better.
Sometimes; Being a “victim” is the best self-defense or a means of protecting others, like what this woman likely did, see the abusive partner in your life on Livestream….where A LOT OF PEOPLE will see you getting pummeled (hoping that your abuser gets arrested and you can get the heck out of there). If outsiders see what goes on on a regular basis at home….hey….whatever works!
….It’s a similar concept with kids who set up a secret camera in their room so the regular abuse can get caught on camera. I’d say such survivors are as strong and badass as any Xena or Rey.
Perhaps it’s worse to be broken mentally than physically. I’m happy when a survivor is able to recover and heal and perhaps fight back in other ways (like fight for reforms or fight for their attacker to get convicted or whatever) or move on and thrive….They refuse to let the perp beat them….thus; the perp FAILED!
But if a survivor is broken, they still deserve our compassion and support. Not everyone is Red Sonja or The Bride.
I need to not be a big ball of hatred and replace my hatred of evil people with pity. Even evil people are broken and may have dysfunctional brains. It’s better to hate their actions but not them personally. You can still strive to punish evil and not literally loathe the perp. We are all interconnected.
Hate messed you up. Folks like Jesus and Buddha were right.
“Hate messes you up” I meant.
@kupo
So how do you get a guy to stop abusing his partners and family?
Until you give us an answer that can be used NOW, then “fight” or “dump” are indeed the best options. Also; One can work for laws or take measures to make sure an abusive partner doesn’t kill the person who “fights” or “dumps”.
Your solution, as it is, is for victims to “take it” helplessly until we can change the culture.
But that takes effort and years and victims have a RIGHT to do something “in the meantime”.
What about the NOW?
“Just taking it” means death too.
I know you and a few others have “been there” but I just don’t accept not leaving or not fighting.
Yes; I agree with de-escalation and I agree with even letting yourself get victimized on camera so others will see and intervene but I generally regret just being a passive victim who just takes it when leaving would be better.
If an abusive ex-partner tries to kill the one who left them, then perhaps it’s high time we work on better protection laws as well as TEACH THE ESCAPED HOW TO DUMP THAT ABUSIVE JERK IN A WAY THAT IS SAFE!
@SpukiKitty
No seriously though, your feelings are valid, and your perceptions about indoctrination against fighting back are *correct*. Movies and TV portray men’s bodies as much more invulnerable than they are in reality. Men rescuing helpless women (and then going to bed with them) is such a ubiquitous trope that a lot of people don’t even notice it. You’re responsible for how you handle your anger, but your *feeling* that anger is inevitable and okay. You don’t have to swallow it. It’s okay to feel it. The things you see are real.
This isn’t to say that violence is always a good option – it’s usually a terrible one IMO, for a lot of reasons – but y’all, we need to recognize that learned helplessness is a thing, and is *heavily* pushed by our culture. It’s in our favorite Disney movies FFS. Most boys learn to rescue women and then take advantage, most girls are taught to wait for a rescuer. And following this is in no way the fault of a victim. Many of us never learn differently.
Also? I’m in the same boat as you re: abuse, and I can recognize a PTSD trigger rant when I see one. <3 Your behavior is your responsibility, but your feelings are valid, and it is *completely okay* to despise your abusers.
@All
I really don't want to come off as, like, promoting violence against abusers as a universal solution. It isn't. But I needed to post this, because even die-hard feminists, IME, will often dismiss each other about things like damsel tropes and male invulnerability, and what I've seen referred to as the mythology of rape (i.e. where the rapist is an invincible god).
@SpukiKitty
Okay there’s a lot going on here.
Basically, these situations are complex. A lot of times a person will have become dependent on their abuser for essential things, or there will be a kid in the mix who could be in danger, or the abuser is just really charming and persuasive. Empowering victims to fight back is important, but it’s *not nearly enough* by itself; they also need a community, they need resources, they need counseling, they need to have other people (preferably not cis dudes, sorry not sorry) who they can bounce their experiences off of and understand that what they’re going through *is actually abuse*.
It’s not just a problem of physical helplessness. That alone wouldn’t do it, as I think you’ve already realized – in this society a wimpy dork of a guy can effectively hold his wife hostage even if she’s a boxer or something, there’s more going on:
– Capitalism and money resource problems
– Lack of knowledge about abuse
– Social abuse and control
– Complicity in gaslighting by media, friends, school systems…
– Institutional misogyny constraints
– Racism, queerphobia, transphobia, ableism, all that shit
I spent most of my life being horribly abused by my dad, probably including sexual abuse at certain points (I don’t remember all of it because trauma). I didn’t even *realize* it was that serious a level of abuse, and how terrible a person he was, until I got far away from him – and found friends who knew about abuse, queer friends and allies, therapists who believed me, etc. I’ve only just begun recovering from how he treated me.
Or: one of my partners last year was emotionally and physically abusive. She was also incredibly charming, fun to be around when she was being decent, and extremely good in bed. And yet she freely violated my boundaries when she saw fit. Even if I had been able to fight back against her physically – and at the time I wasn’t, this woman was an armed forces vet and built like a tank – I would *not have wanted to*, because I loved and respected and wanted to protect her, and wanted to stay in her favor. EVEN THOUGH SHE WAS ABUSIVE. It took a lot of talking with friends, and a lot of retrospective thinking about my own experiences, to realize I had to run, and to understand how to go about it.
Short version: abuse isn’t just about one power differential, it involves the intersection of many, many different power differentials to create a context that is very hard to escape even with resources. Teaching victims how they can fight back, and teaching people how not to abuse in the first place, are both important, and also both tiny parts.
And really IMO endemic abuse of women and queers will not stop being a thing until capitalism, patriarchy, white supremacy, and colonialism all stop being things. *This is a social problem, not a personal one.*
Hope that helps.
@SpukiKitty:
Or as any Lisbeth Salander, the titular Girl With the Dragon Tattoo; that was one of the measures she took against the court-appointed guardian who molested her, using it to blackmail him into (A) leaving her the fuck alone and (B) giving her access to her own damn money–he’d been exacting sexual favors in return for her allowance.
(She also famously repaid him in exact coin for a particularly violent rape and then proceeded to apply a warning label to the package, but not everyone is prepared to go to action-movie lengths.)
Also, just being completely candid… CN: violent rhetoric, mental health stuff
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I’ve been known to go on rants about wanting to kill every man on Earth when I’m in bad trauma headspaces. This is not a view I actually hold outside those headspaces, thank gods, and I’ve been slowly learning more about controlling those triggers and flashes of rage. All the same, it’s one of the things that makes me stay away from guys as partners, even though I’m bi.
This is one of the ways PTSD can work, and also one of the ways it can bend us survivors towards being abusive ourselves.
Take good care of yourselves, find chosen family who support you, seek knowledge and healing. You Are Not Alone.
Don’t you fucking DARE put those words into my mouth. That is reprehensible that you take my observation about how the onus is on women to fix the fucking problem and you turn it into me advocating for victims to “take it.”
I have been a victim if IPV. I know how fucking dangerous it is to fight back. How quickly it escalates. How badly you get gaslit into thinking it was all your fault. How it escalates when you show any sign of leaving. DO NOT put words into my mouth.
Edit:
Of course they have a right to. But it’s dangerous. And what I see from multiple directions, including you, is demanding that they do, rather than respcting their right to choose how they respond.
Spukikitty
Patriarchy not only buffaloes women psychologically, but actually breeds female strength out of the gene pool by favoring fragile, passive women as partners.
And men in almost every culture on earth are fed better than women.
Who knows how much more equal we would be if we were allowed to eat properly…
@cyborgette
*It’s a social problem, not a personal one*
I partially agree with you there.
Even in the current social situation, people can, and some do, choose to be better.
I don’t have the links on me, but I recall reading a peer reviewed study that showed that women underestimate their physical strength and men overestimate their physical strength. And let’s not forget that the majority of female pro athletes are viciously attacked for…being athletic.
I also recall a meta analysis of over a dozen peer reviewed studies on domestic abuse and women who act in self defence. It came to the conclusion that women are exceptionally good at judging the scenario and reacting in the right way to survive, which can include, but not always, self defence.
Long story short, victims (male or female ofc) are doing literally everything they possibly can, while society, men as a class, etc, are doing jack shit.
Okay, i’m’a do a ramble here. Nothing hostile, I don’t think. I’m not directing this at anyone, and I’m not angry, but I really think this has to be said.
We trust the person who’s being abused to do what’s right for them in that moment. Even knowing that people often make mistakes, people often don’t do what’s right for them.
I don’t know the poor woman who was assaulted there, but I trust her to do the best she can, because that’s what we do. We do the best we can.
Casting doubt on her minimizes her, makes her as much a victim as the abuser does. Makes her the subject of our own decisions instead of a source of her own; subordinates her.
Trust her. Trust her. Help her, give her an outside perspective, give her resources and a way out, give her a shoulder to cry on and a sympathetic ear. But trust her.
That’s the answer we have, now, and that’s what Kupo was saying. We don’t say that she’s wrong in taking that abuse – we trust her to behave in a way that keeps her alive and keeps her as safe as possible, and we help in whatever way we can that honours her choices.
High fives @Jane Done, bringin the literature. Thanks.
Ugh
*offers @kupo hugs and sympathies*
I’m sorry – I didn’t realize how hard on you this convo and SpukiKitty’s behavior were.
@Cyborgette
Thanks for the hugs. I was trying to avoid engaging because we’ve done this before but I just can’t sit here and take this.
Thank you for teaching me about things and forgive me, Kupo, for saying what I said (though I didn’t intend to mean it in the way you thought it meant).
I agree that there’s a lot of work to be done and I agree that it’s dangerous to try to do something about it if you’re in that situation at times and I know I shouldn’t force someone to fight back, leave or whatever if they don’t have the will, ability or means.
That said; Since it’ll take years to undo THOUSANDS of years of Patriarchy, we really need solutions that, while not perfect, can help in the meantime….because people in abusive situations deserve hope and a chance. Everyone needs safety and deserves it and should be able to get it.
I’m sorry, Kupo, but by “sit and take it” I never meant WILLINGLY. I meant “be helpless and have nothing to be able to do to change things”. I refuse that answer! That’s a lie and fatalism.
And I refuse to wait YEARS for Patriarchy to completely end before seeing it feasible for someone to do something about their lot in life.
No; It’s not your fault if you can’t defend yourself. Yes; The culture must change and the onus should never be on the oppressed party alone.
I’m speaking as PLAINLY as I can. Writing as clearly as I can! Covering as many bases as I can so that no one misinterprets what I say…..but they still misinterpret!
Everyone reads something in my sentences that is not there! READ PEOPLE!
OKAY! EXERCISE TIME; I WANT EACH PERSON TO WRITE THEIR INTERPRETATION OF MY PAST FEW COMMENTS AND TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK I MEAN. THEN; I WILL CLEAR UP ANY MISCONCEPTIONS YOU HAVE. DEAL? (These all-caps are not anger. Just emphasis)….
Yeah, no.
To Kupo….I’m so sorry….
….I hate seeing you hurt. I hate seeing anyone hurt. I also regret the tone of my last post. I wrote out of frustration.
* I am not advocating violence or fighting back. I know that in some cases, it can make things worse.
* I am not saying that victims are asking for it or that the onus is on the victim/survivor to fight back, escape, recover, etc.
* I do understand that there’s a lot in society that needs to be changed.
My problem is is that I refuse to accept that in some situations, there nothing one can do and no escape. Even if the victim can’t escape, surely someone on the outside can help out.
It’s that feeling of helplessness. Progress is too damn slow!
(Sorry for the double post, but editing no longer seems to be a thing)
How about instead of telling people how they misinterpreted you, you say what you mean? Although I gather you did that the first time around so…yeah, I don’t see how telling people that they aren’t understanding what you mean, makes things any better..
@Kupo
Welcome, and aye, I understand. You’re not alone either.
@SpukiKitty
Okay, I felt I had to back you on your trauma stuff, but right now you’re being a jerk. And disingenuous.
Your wrote:
“I’m sorry, Kupo, but by “sit and take it” I never meant WILLINGLY. I meant “be helpless and have nothing to be able to do to change things”. I refuse that answer! That’s a lie and fatalism.”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-apology_apology
Fake apologies are an abuse tactic.
Putting words in people’s mouths is an abuse tactic.
Trying to pass your anger and passive aggression off as calm and reasonable is an abuse tactic. (And, honestly, the one my dad used against more more than any other. Believe me, I’m good at recognizing that shit.)
Being a trauma survivor doesn’t make you immune to behaving toxicly yourself. Do better.
Edit: bloody hell, I’m bad at keeping up with things tonight.
I just feel like I’m trying to make a point but it’s complex and it’s coming out all wrong.
I have ADHD and not the best communicator. May there’s something wrong with me.
We’ve had this conversation before. I tried to avoid it by being as clear and precise as possible….choosing my words carefully and even bringing up how other might misconstrue what I say….but to no avail.
It’s not you, it’s me. I’m an idiot and am not getting something.
I never do good on this board.
I am on your side. I’m a long-time commenter on FSTDTs, I’m as Prog as hell and a full-blown Feminist.
Maybe the reason why I’m not getting it is that I do get the point you’re making but refuse to accept it because it’s not what I want….or I’m having a hard time comprehending your point….or both.
And I’m the wrong words….which have different meanings from what you see as the meaning of the words.
The saddest part of this video I think is she made him dinner((( I usually cook at home for my gf, and I know the horrible feeling when she doesn’t want to eat what I made (maybe she is busy) or she gets upset because I made something that she didn’t really want. We sometimes argue about that, because it hurts my feelings and becuase she doesnt like to cook she is not aware that I put a lot of effort and my main goal is that she is happy. So I can really sympathise from this woman’s perspective and maybe why she is upset. But it is worse because her partner is abusive and apparently does not care if he hits her. So if something which is a small and common arguement for many couples already means he will make physical abuse, what is it like when the arguement is more serious? Which type of situation is her “normal” day?
note: I can’t watch the video becuase I’m at sea but I read the descriptions here and on Twitter & some other places this video was discussed.
@Cyborgette
That’s not what I meant!
If I inadvertently sounded like an abuser, I’m sorry.
Even in defending myself, I’m burying myself deeper.
Here’s my stuff from FSTDTs so you know I’m a real person who’s on your side and not a MRA Jerk pretending and trolling….
http://www.fstdt.com/Search.aspx?Author=SpukiKitty
….I want to be your friend! I’m one of you!
These are all the FSTDTs comment threads where I comment on some Frummy’s antics.
You’ll see that the person writing as me writes the same way as me. Also; Many of the commenter “get” what I’m trying to say.
I am not an abuser. I am not a misogynist. I am not a victim-blamer.
What am I doing wrong? I don’t understand. Why must you act like a clique? You’re not even trying to help me understand!