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Red Pillers cheer dudes reporting online sex workers to the IRS, hoping the #ThotAudit will “check” female sexuality

Hello IRS? I’ve changed my mind about taxes being evil and want to report a woman selling pics of her tits on Instagram

By David Futrelle

While most Americans were enjoying Thanksgiving, a small army of brave cyberwarriors were launching a guerrilla assault on … women selling nude pics of themselves online, reporting them to the IRS en masse for supposed tax evasion. (Or at least threatening to.)

These angry dudes — and they pretty much all seem to be dudes — don’t have any evidence that the targets of this so-called #ThotAudit aren’t paying taxes on unreported earnings. They mostly just want to take these “thots” — the term, short for “that hoe over there,” is now a popular synonym for “slut” — down a peg or two.

https://twitter.com/prowowdruid/status/1066437585877258240

https://twitter.com/TylerGange/status/1066480079658721281

You might not think that Reddit’s so-called Red Pill dudes would have much sympathy for this campaign, which is still evidently going strong.

After all, most Red Pillers tend to think of themselves as some variety of libertarian, way of “big government” and the taxes that fund it. And aren’t the supposed “victims” of these evil nude-selling women — that is, the guys who actually shell out money for exclusive pics and videos — a bunch of pathetic, porn-addicted beta cucks anyway? Red Pillers are supposedly up to their necks in Hot Babes. Isn’t getting mad at Instagram nude-pic-sellers an awfully incelly thing to do?

Well, as it turns out, Red Pill dudes seem as excited about exacting revenge against these women as any sex-deprived beta. In a recent thread on the #ThotAudit in the Red Pill subreddit, a bunch of the regulars lashed out at the alleged thot menace.

“The society of thots must be torn down,” wrote someone called Good-Boi.

Modern western woman embrace being whores but we should shame whores and put them down where every thy thot appears.

For someone called IVIaskerade, the #ThotAudit campaign was “Black Knighting at its finest.”

More than a few were happy to set aside their dislike of “snitching” to support what they saw as a good cause. AutisticusMaximus got more than 100 upvotes for a comment noting that

Although I was always against snitching for the sake of snitching, in order to get in good terms with the boss/teacher, whatever; I have nothing against this, I pay taxes, they should too, fuck off.

And I understand the non-monetary satisfaction in reporting here, the same hot women who never gave them the time of day in life and degraded them for their hobbies (video games, computers, etc.) are now disingenuously adopting those same hobbies because they can use their sexuality to monetize them.

But it was a Red Pill mod called bsutansalt who set forth the Red Pill Case for Thot Auditing in its full glory. Which is to say, not very much,

“Once upon a time,” he began,

there was a “pussy in every pot” as I like to call it for betas and chads alike. Civilization had checks and balances that ensured average dudes would land a woman to have some kids with to ensure he’d have skin in the game to slave and build society for.

It’s perhaps appropriate that he started off his rant with “once upon a time,” because so far this is little more than a familiar Red Pill fairy tale.

However, since the advent of women’s lib and the pill, women are now free to fuck and suck every chad they cross paths with and it’s causing a rift between the sexual haves and have nots that we’re just starting to see the ramifications of.

The idea that average woman is having endless wild orgies with a succession of chads while denying “betas” their fair share of sex is utter bullshit, no matter how often manosphere types insist on repeating it.

[I]t’s entirely understandable thirsty jaded dudes would blow the whistle on these thots who are taking advantage of their thirst. … [T]here’s also an financial incentive to blow the whistle on them: any taxes the IRS collects because of the dime you dropped, your’e liable to get a 30% cut.

No one is going to get a 30% cut for telling the IRS that they’re pretty sure  SexyGirl99 is evading her taxes because, er, she thinks she’s all that? You have to give the IRS specific proof.

On the other end of the spectrum are the worst case examples are guys cracking under the pressure (and depression it causes) and shooting up yoga classes and theaters and whatnot.

It wouldn’t be a manosphere rant without some “warning” that if women don’t have sex with dudes they don’t want to have sex with these dudes will just up and murder them.

The more common consequence has been guys waking up, taking the red pill, and enjoying the decline primarily in one of two ways:

  1. Simply dropping out and going Galt (aka MGTOW) and
  2. Taking on the mantle of self-improvement to make themselves into chads so they can graduate into being one of the “haves”

Most of us here probably fall into category 2.

Or at least they want the other dudes reading their comments to think that they do.

In conclusion, I fully endorse #thotaudit if only for the checks and balances it represents to women’s sexuality.

In other words, his wall of text was basically just a more verbose version of  “lmao, these thots are just getting what’s coming to them!”

But not everyone in the Red Pill subreddit was quite this enthusiastic about the #ThotAudit campaign.

“my general disapproval of sluts is at war with my hatred of taxes,” wrote someone called russian_n*gger.

“I can’t endorse snitching,” added chadmarco. “I’d rather men just not throw money at bitches in the first place.”

But it was legendary Red Pill commenter GayLubeOil who offered the most, well, creative argument against the snitching campaign.

“There’s nothing “Alpha” about this,” he declared.

What we’re seeing is the Incel Slave Class adopting the value system of the Thot Master class in a traditional Hegalian Master Slave Dialectic. In this case specifically it’s PayPal deplatforming.

Another example of this Untermensh mentality is Paul Elam and MGTOW adopting the feminist victimhood narrative for their needs.

Being a slave in a Master Slave Dialectic automatically makes you beta.

One point to GayLubeOil for working a gratuitous Paul Elam dis into a discussion of the #ThotAudit hashtag. Two points for the reference to Hegel. One point off for spelling his name wrong.

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Bina
2 years ago

These guys. I’d say “fuck ’em”, but that’s what they want. That’s why they’re sliding into everybody’s private messages, demanding nudes, sex, and who knows what all else. They created this market, and now they’re complaining that they have to pay for it.

And if they got “a pussy in every pot”, as they claim existed in their mythical Golden Age of No Feminism, they’d be kvetching that it’s not good enough for them.

I hope the IRS shoots all of them down in the most ignominious way.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
2 years ago

You have to give the IRS specific proof.

Wait, is that 30% thing real?

So if you face a big tax bill, you just need to team up with someone with a small liability, get them not to pay, arrange to grass them up, and then pay their bill from your 30% discount.

It’s a win-win.

Austin G Loomis
Austin G Loomis
2 years ago

I hope the IRS shoots all of them down in the most ignominious way.

I’m not sure our media laws allow for the IRS to buy up a block of airtime during which they broadcast a long line of miggies presenting themselves, one by one, to the auditor, who jumps up and down and laughs like a donkey at each of them in turn.

tohka
tohka
2 years ago

Wait. Are there penalties for a false report? Its like they’re convinced that none of those sex workers are paying taxes

Also interesting how incels committing murder and serious crimes are just “cracked under pressure” according to red pillers while women choosing not to fuck them are the worst thing to happen to civilization and must be punished with removing rights and forced marriage you can’t leave from. ( they fantasize about that alot dont they.. yikes. They literally want slavery )

Dr. Thang
Dr. Thang
2 years ago

I actually got into a long argument with some angry little fellow over this recently. Seems like there are only two types of people supporting this “thotaudit”, the ones who really hate women, and the ones who only hate women a little but want to pretend we live in a fantasy world where nobody is sexist unless they are announcing it with a megaphone. This guy was the latter. So despite being started by some woman hater named David Wu and then being promoted by the even bigger woman hater Roosh and all the incels screeching about “whores” and the fact that it is literally called “THOTaudit”, there’s absolutely no reason to believe this whole campaign is motivated by sexism. These people just REALLY care about others paying their taxes, but not major corporations like google and amazon that dodge billions, no, only webcam models, and only the female ones, many of whom already pay taxes. Yep, nothing suspicious about that whatsoever!
I am 100% certain people who say there is no sexism involved here are lying to themselves. It’s all about plausible deniability these days, sexism and racism don’t exist when it would be inconvenient for them, so if 100% of a group of people don’t officially register with the “no wimenz aloud” club, there’s no “proof” that they are sexist…and therefore it’s somehow more logical to believe something ridiculous with even less proof! Like that they are just imaginary unicorn people who genuinely care about cam models cheating the government out of 20s of dollars a month. Cause that makes much more sense than the outlandish and inconceivable claim that sexism exists on the internet.

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
2 years ago

@Alan:
I think the ‘30% cut’ means ‘cut of what the IRS gets paid by the person who was reported’, not ‘cut of what the reporter is paying’. So what you described wouldn’t work, as you’d only get 30% of what they had to pay, and couldn’t pay them from that.

Granted, like any ‘turn in your neighbour’ scheme, there would be all sorts of avenues for abuse. Just forcing someone else to go through an audit is bad enough.

So, I agree, ‘wait, is that a real thing?’

And, apparently it is, sort of:

https://www.irs.gov/compliance/whistleblower-informant-award

There are some legal rules required for the status, though, and yes, proof is required. Also:

The law provides for two types of awards. If the taxes, penalties, interest and other amounts in dispute exceed $2 million, and a few other qualifications are met, the IRS will pay 15 percent to 30 percent of the amount collected. If the case deals with an individual, his or her annual gross income must be more than $200,000. if the whistleblower disagrees with the outcome of the claim, he or she can appeal to the Tax Court.
[…]
The IRS also has an award program for other whistleblowers – generally those who do not meet the dollar thresholds of $2 million in dispute or cases involving individual taxpayers with gross income of less that $200,000. The awards through this program are less, with a maximum award of 15 percent up to $10 million. In addition, the awards are discretionary and the informant cannot dispute the outcome of the claim in Tax Court.

So 30% isn’t in the cards, as someone would have to be a reasonably big name to be raking in over $200k per year and have more than $2m outstanding. And if it doesn’t meet those levels, then the IRS can just toss the thing out and you can’t even complain afterward.

This whole setup is presumably really designed for people working inside corporations to be able to report their employers cheating on taxes.

Of course, the IRS doesn’t really want its time wasted, and things like ‘lying to a federal officer’ and ‘filing a false report’ can be treated as crimes on their own…

epitome of incomprehensibility

“Thot” is the way one of my friends spells the word “thought”, for simplicity’s sake, and I’ve a feeling he wouldn’t be too pleased with this usage. Maybe amused in a rolled-eyes sort of way.

there was a “pussy in every pot” as I like to call it

Oooo-kay. Sometimes I forget the dehumanization aspect. If you really thought of women as objects, like food, then I guess you’d be mad about them getting (even earning) men’s money. It’d be like giving a roast chicken a salary, except the chicken is also evil and plots how to squeeze as much cash out of you as possible.

Contrast with the old days, when men were men and women were compliant zombie chickens.

(I am not, in fact, a zombie chicken and need sleep :D)

tohka
tohka
2 years ago

Wait. Isn’t there a penalty for false reports to the IRS? Like, all of these incels are just convinced that sex workers (none of the male sex workers are being brought up) are all not paying taxes. Couldnt those reporting face trouble? Sorry if thats a dumb question.

Also, disgustingly interesting of how red pillers describe an incel committing atrocities like mass murder “cracked under the pressure” but women freely choosing not to have sex with them is the worst thing to happen to civilization and it must be punished immediately. How dare women be people and not incubators

Horrid of they to fantasize about forcing women to have no rights, to marry them and they can’t escape. Its as if they want slavery back. All because they dont have sex.

Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
2 years ago

@tohka

Its as if they want slavery back.

You make some excellent points.

But I’m gonna have to take issue with the above statement.

I have absolutely no doubt that they want slavery back.

For others, of course. Not for them!

Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
2 years ago

OT: Christine Blasey Ford

The guy whose life she ruined is now on the Supreme Court. Meanwhile, Christine Blasey Ford is “hopeful” that her life, and the lives of her family, will soon return to normal.

GoFundMe
Help Christine Blasey Ford
$647,610 of $150,000 goal
Raised by 13,969 people in 2 months
No Longer Accepting Donations

Message from Dr. Christine Blasey Ford – November 21, 2018
Words are not adequate to thank all of you who supported me since I came forward to tell the Senate that I had been sexually assaulted by Brett Kavanaugh. Your tremendous outpouring of support and kind letters have made it possible for us to cope with the immeasurable stress, particularly the disruption to our safety and privacy. Because of your support, I feel hopeful that our lives will return to normal.

The funds you have sent through GoFundMe have been a godsend. Your donations have allowed us to take reasonable steps to protect ourselves against frightening threats, including physical protection and security for me and my family, and to enhance the security for our home. We used your generous contributions to pay for a security service, which began on September 19 and has recently begun to taper off; a home security system; housing and security costs incurred in Washington DC, and local housing for part of the time we have been displaced. Part of the time we have been able to stay with our security team in a residence generously loaned to us.

With immense gratitude, I am closing this account to further contributions. All funds unused after completion of security expenditures will be donated to organizations that support trauma survivors. I am currently researching organizations where the funds can best be used. We will use this space to let you know when that process is complete.

Although coming forward was terrifying, and caused disruption to our lives, I am grateful to have had the opportunity to fulfill my civic duty. Having done so, I am in awe of the many women and men who have written me to share similar life experiences, and now have bravely shared their experience with friends and family, many for the first time. I send you my heartfelt love and support.

I wish I could thank each and every one of you individually. Thank you.
Christine

https://www.gofundme.com/help-christine-blasey-ford

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
2 years ago

#ThotAudit is complete bullshit. They’re all talk. You can’t just sic the IRS on somebody because you don’t like them.

In order to file a whistleblower claim, you have to provide the following:

1) a specific monetary amount that is owed to the IRS

2) information to support the narrative, such as ledgers, receipts, contracts, emails, bank account information

3) a description of when and how the whistleblower became aware of the information that forms the basis of the claim

4) a complete description of the whistleblower’s relationship to the subject of the claim (family member, employee, bookkeeper, customer, lawyer). “Random internet hater” doesn’t cut it.

5) the whistleblower’s original signature on the declaration under penalty of perjury, which carries a fine of $1000 or prison sentence of 1 year.

…Have fun storming the castle, boys.

P.S. You’d think people who spend so much time whining about false accusations wouldn’t be so quick to indulge in them themselves.

Troubelle: Moonbeam Malcontent, Bard of the New Movement
Troubelle: Moonbeam Malcontent, Bard of the New Movement
2 years ago

Report, report, report, but no duty
To one’s community
A last resort of all the most desperate
Easy for all to see
Clawing down, there’ll be no crown
For them or their ilk to wear
When will we see them there?

There in the middle of all the action
Fightin’ for the rights they claim
Can’t be convinced to make a transaction
Just to enter the game
Only thing that’s neat, they’re off the street
Leave that to those who dedicate
To the vision of a nation never great

Nine out of ten a gaggle of white men
Over on the other line
Nobody told ’em, “time to get crackin’!”
Because they figure they’ll be fine
‘Course they get pissed at those that raise a fist
Against the fascist entropy
Because the color’s all they see

And in the interim, they’re stuck in the turnstile
While the rest breeze by
Can’t find the thing that makes their lives worthwhile
What’s stoppin’ them? They can’t say bye!
Throwin’ pebbles from their holes, hack up smoke from their coals
And nobody asks what it means
Just asks those hit not to make scenes
Upon that they do lean
And I’ll just say: that’s beans.

JessicaRed
JessicaRed
2 years ago

I’ve made good money doing naughty things on the internet, and I always paid my taxes. I’m sure the people they’re bothering have nothing to worry about.

I’m sure it’ll help though, to have these women whom these bros perceive as getting something for nothing (rather than just providing a wanted service according to the free market principle of supply and demand – a principle first coined by an Islamic scholar in the middle ages considered the father of economics, FYI) to start paying their taxes to fund the so-called “welfare queens” whom they also perceive as getting something for nothing.

Then they can get back to “focusing on self-improvement and becoming Chads”, a thing that is TOTALLY actually happening. XD

tohka
tohka
2 years ago

Oops I didnt notice my first original post went through successfully. Apologizes! I thought it didnt and went to post again! Sorry sorry new here

@Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile

No not for them! I notice their feelings because whenever they bring up “solutions” to their issues (women not choosing them) it always involves restricting human rights. Its creepy and horrid and dehumanizing. So much so that even some TRP subscribers aren’t on board. Yikes

@Buttercup Q. Skullpants

P.S. You’d think people who spend so much time whining about false accusations wouldn’t be so quick to indulge in them themselves.

This this this!

Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
2 years ago

Wait, is this related to the recent troll campaign to get women ASMR entertainers kicked off PayPal for selling “sexual content”?

Also, I can’t imagine what you could report about some random camgirl other than: “Everyone knows sex workers operate in the grey economy, even when they’re legal, so here’s one camgirl in case you’d like to audit her…”

Pie
Pie
2 years ago

Checks and balances on sexuality, eh? If I recall correctly, in Ye Goode Olde Dayese, women were kept in check by dying in childbirth, and in exchange men would get slaughtered in pointless wars so there wouldn’t be any surplus. Or maybe it was the other way around.

Either way, it sounds pretty fucking idyllic, as I’m sure you’ll agree. The world is a waaaaay worse place now.

Monzach
Monzach
2 years ago

An online friend of mine does cam work and she got involved in this. The only problem with this is that she’s not a resident of the USA in any way, shape or form. So, basically, these guys are seemingly just picking online sex workers at random and don’t even care to check if they are reporting Americans to the American IRS. I…I’m actually kinda conflicted now, between laughter and tears. Guess I’ll solve this conflict by laughing until I cry… 😀

Violet the Vile, Moonbat Screech Junky
Violet the Vile, Moonbat Screech Junky
2 years ago

@Bina

It’s not about sex. They slide into our messages and demand nudes, and it’s not because they want nudes; nudes are easy to find, you don’t need to ask random girls for them. It’s to put us in our place. To remind us that they can just waltz in to our private, personal social media lives and demand sex.

It’s all about keeping women on the back foot. Constantly apologising. Constantly playing to the unspoken paradigm that men are “the standard” “the majority” “the norm” and women are “the deviation” “the minority” and we need to explain ourselves and our behaviour.

I’ve posted this quote before, but I think it’s time for it again.

“The function, the very serious function of racism is distraction. It keeps you from doing your work. It keeps you explaining, over and over again, your reason for being. Somebody says you have no language and you spend twenty years proving that you do. Somebody says your head isn’t shaped properly so you have scientists working on the fact that it is. Somebody says you have no art, so you dredge that up. Somebody says you have no kingdoms, so you dredge that up. None of this is necessary. There will always be one more thing.”

In this case Toni Morrison is writing about racism; but her point is both universal and profoundly important. It can equally well be applied to sexism, homophobia, transphobia…..The more time you spend feeling like you have to prove you have the right to be considered a person, the less time you spend being one. You end up constantly chasing the “good enough”. We will never, ever, EVER be good enough for these guys to spontaneously say “OK, we accept it, we’re all equals”.

The only reason we feel like we have to prove anything at all about women is because these idiots say we do.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
2 years ago

@ jenora

So what you described wouldn’t work,

Aww. It seems there’s just no break for the common, er, criminal.

(I’m now reminded of the Cheech and Chong Sister Mary Elephant sketch, where the cop is doing a drugs awareness thing with the schoolkids.

“Hey, do you have still have that scheme where if you snitch on a dealer you get money?”

“That is correct”

“Well I wanna grass on Billy man. He sold me some weed last week; wouldn’t get a fly high”)

Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
2 years ago

Alan:

Aww. It seems there’s just no break for the common, er, criminal.

The only thing that can defeat someone hell bent on seeking legal loopholes and exploitation opportunities is another lawyer…

Canuck_with_pluck
Canuck_with_pluck
2 years ago
weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
2 years ago

All during the Obama administration , conservatives made baseless claims that they were targeted by the IRS for political reasons. As usual, it’s projection. Anything conservatives claim the “left” is doing is What they’re either doing or planning on doing themselves. They simply can’t imagine that anyone else is principled.

Jeroen
Jeroen
2 years ago

Very relevant (and not the least bit surprising): https://twitter.com/DammieItsCammie/status/1067091312363614209

David Wu (the guy who started the “report sex workers to the IRS) is currently being outed as a pedophile and multiple girls are coming forward with shit like this.

Yutolia the Green Hash Thing
Yutolia the Green Hash Thing
2 years ago

@tohka and Buttercup:

P.S. You’d think people who spend so much time whining about false accusations wouldn’t be so quick to indulge in them themselves.

Yeah, the manosphere (and conservatives in general maybe) definitely engage in a lot of projection.

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
2 years ago

@ Canuck:

The link worked for me

‘Campuses have become these padded rooms where people can’t exchange ideas anymore’

Campuses have ALWAYS been this way…. The current alt-right does not want to discuss the long, long period when any progressive idea was literally laughed out of the classroom, and predatory patriarchy was the campus motto….

… but just let one person object to a slap on the butt by a professor emeritus and “… everyone loses their mind“….

Alexis Filth
Alexis Filth
2 years ago

I burned a bunch of people in the D Wu comment thread on facebook.
They didn’t have too many comebacks to the roasting I dished out.

ThatGuyWithA3DS
ThatGuyWithA3DS
2 years ago

Made the mistake of reading the comments in the article’s Reddit thread. Most commenters missed the “baseless accusation” part and started grousing about how unfair it was that sex workers supposedly didn’t pay taxes. Weird how we take MRA’s words at face value, but constantly undermine women when they try to speak.

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
2 years ago

The more common consequence has been guys waking up, taking the red pill, and enjoying the decline primarily in one of two ways:

1) Simply dropping out and going Galt (aka MGTOW) and
2) Taking on the mantle of self-improvement to make themselves into chads so they can graduate into being one of the “haves”
Most of us here probably fall into category 2.

3) sitting in our basement screaming at the internet because someone else won’t fix our problems for us….

Actually, most of us here probably fall into category 3

ftfy

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
2 years ago

@ Violet:

The only reason we feel like we have to prove anything at all about women is because these idiots say we do.

this… This… THIS!!!!

Actually, there are a lot of other reasons… to get a job, to have any credibelity in a court, etc… tho all those things are so because the nitwit mras, etc. SAAY they are….

re: campuses and progressivism….

In the Before Times, the campus discussion was directed by the heirarchy/administration, and progressives had no place at that table. In the 50’s/60’s, students decided that if they were not to be afforded a place at the table for discussion, then they would just MOVE THE DISCUSSION INTO THE YARD.

Now, the discussion seems to revolve around whatever snowflakeiness the left is upset about, and the right just whines and grinches because they’re not centered in the discussion anymore.

The reality is, very little change has been seen. The sound and fury on campus does sound biased much to the left channel, and, indeed several speakers favored by the right have been denied a publicly funded platform for their hatred.

Nonetheless, a conservative mindset still controls the administration, and certainly the boardrooms where the men who control the endowment sit. Regarding the direction of the narrative on the ground, the discussion of right-wing ideals; white supremacy, pro-Confederate States propaganda, and bikini shots in the classroom PowerPoint is always guided by the principal “Can We Get Away With It”… any discussion of left-wing ideals; Human Rights, Sexual Assault, and anti-fascism is always met with “Can We Get Out Of It?”

… so, while I do feel some measure of empathy for these, the whitest of snowflakes (no, I do… I really DO), I hafta say, “… look at the bright side… after you get your fee-fees hurt, the richest patriarchial society in the history of oppression has your back!!”

For the lefty snowflakes, now that you have YOUR feelings hurt, you get stomped into the slush in the gutter.

Katamount
Katamount
2 years ago

You know, there’s something almost (almost!) charming about a bunch of clueless dipshits on the internet thinking that the IRS has the time or wherewithal to nickel and dime sex workers. It’s almost Randian in its conception of government as this all-powerful punishment tool that sucks up all the monies from “hard working tax payers” (TM) when the reality is that it’s been gutted so heavily that it can barely keep up with all the actual factual tax cheats.

This is what believing one’s own myths looks like.

@Violet The Vile

It’s all about keeping women on the back foot.

Yup. I’m still blown away that people dedicate this much energy to such a petty and pathetic goal, yet this is exactly what it is.

@Weird Eddie

‘Campuses have become these padded rooms where people can’t exchange ideas anymore’

I hear this talking point a lot and I have to say, there’s a certain gaslighting component to it because it completely differs from my university experience. To listen to these people, it’s wall-to-wall student protests and every class is Triggered 101, where poor innocent profs are subjected to twelve inclusivity complaints before lunchtime.

No, it was more just “Ah, crap, I got two labs to write, an English essay and about five problem sets to complete before the big final!” If it wasn’t furious typing in the computer lab, it was hours spent in the library reading. It was work work work work work broken up with the occasional decompression gathering in the common room. I barely had the time to get political. Granted, I was in a professional STEM field, but I still had to take humanities classes, so it wasn’t all equations and formulae. I had to engage in class discussions about written works, had participation marks and none of it was “This story about a female necrophile is clearly a Marxist polemic about class exploitation and anybody who says otherwise is a triggering racist-sexist.” (Aside: thanks for that story, Barbra Gowdy, it certainly sticks in the brain).

No, it was always about the subject matter at hand and trying to internalize the material to get decent grades. Because grades were the bottom line: part of the pressure of university and why I still have recurring dreams about it was simply how stressful it is to have those numbers deciding your future.

That’s why I’m always skeptical of people who write about campus politics five, ten, twenty years removed from actually being a student. They’re trying to build a narrative that is completely counterfactual to my own lived experience. And somehow I doubt things have gotten less stressful for students to the point they have the time to engage politically more than they did in the past.

And of course, these “ideas”, these precious “ideas” never get named whenever they’re brought up. Because it’s always the same pseudo-scientific crap from the 19th century with some lipstick on it:

“Oh you triggered snowflakes, you’re so scared of our scary new ideas! We have so many scary new ideas that are really dangerous to your ideology!”

“Such as?”

“Uhhh… black people are genetically inferior to white people…?”

As I’m rewatching Star Trek: The Next Generation, there was one bit that I totally didn’t remember, but cemented Picard’s status as the better Captain than Kirk, from the otherwise terrible episode “Samaritan Snare”, where Picard and Wesley Crusher share their awkward shuttle trip:

WESLEY: We’re approaching Starbase Five One Five, sir.
PICARD: At last. Did you read that book I gave you?
WESLEY: Some of it.
PICARD: That’s reassuring.
WESLEY: I just don’t have much time.
PICARD: There is no greater challenge than the study of philosophy.
WESLEY: But William James won’t be in my Starfleet exams.
PICARD: The important things never will be. Anyone can be trained in the mechanics of piloting a starship.
WESLEY: But Starfleet Academy
PICARD: It takes more. Open your mind to the past. Art, history, philosophy. And all this may mean something.

That’s Captain Picard directly telling a kid who is the 24th century equivalent of the Silicon Valley-destined wunkerkind that there’s more to life than coding and the humanities matter. Because that’s what you really should come out of university thinking. Not “wow, I know everything” it’s “wow, I barely know jack about this vast cosmos of ours.” It should instill both a curiosity and an appreciation for everything you encounter in your life, from disparate culture to nature to literature and art. And if universities are not creating intellectually curious people, then they really have failed. That’s why I find dillholes like Jordan Peterson so odious: they’re telling people to be less curious about the world because something something Western civilization, something something neo-Marxism.

Okay, rant over… for now… still got a lot I can say about how odd the concept of Risa is in the Trek canon.

AsAboveSoBelow
AsAboveSoBelow
2 years ago

I don’t blame them: these girls are getting a free ride via beta bux and a broken sexual marketplace that is rigged in the favor of females.

Self-awareness, how does it work? Guess Doosh is miffed that he can’t find any HB10s to, what was it, stroke his beard? Ugh.

@Katamount: “dillholes.” Glad to know I’m not the only one who uses that one. Regarding Triggered 101, I do recall some classmates, in the mid-90s, getting very upset when they were asked not what they felt, but what they thought. Some students (and faculty) seemed permanently aggrieved, but that’s hardly unique to academe.

Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
2 years ago

On balance, I’d say the most annoying thing I heard in academe when last I wandered those halls came from a fellow student, during a debate on censorship. He was in favor, and he made the mistake of asserting that a teacher should simply tell students the official interpretation of whatever literary text they were studying.

Did I mention this was during the time they’d allotted for audience responses and that my hand shot up so quickly I nearly hurt myself? And that I was taking literary criticism that semester?

Nequam
Nequam
2 years ago

Because that’s what you really should come out of university thinking. Not “wow, I know everything” it’s “wow, I barely know jack about this vast cosmos of ours.”

It’s been almost 30 years, but I think I came out of college thinking “wow, it’s over. Maybe I won’t think about killing myself quite as often.”

Katamount
Katamount
2 years ago

@AsAboveSoBelow

Some students (and faculty) seemed permanently aggrieved, but that’s hardly unique to academe.

Yeah, we encounter those kind of folks everywhere. Curmudgeons, attention seekers… can’t really get away from ’em.

@Victorious Parasol

He was in favor, and he made the mistake of asserting that a teacher should simply tell students the official interpretation of whatever literary text they were studying.

Eeep! Rather an authoritarian mindset. I can certainly see more context being offered if there’s an understanding gulf (one thing I hated about studying Shakespeare 500 years removed from anything resembling its original context), but yeah, it’s rare that literature is so cut-and-dry. Unless the book being studied is The Turner Diaries or Camp of the Saints.

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
2 years ago

@Alan, Lumipuna:
Of course, there’s no legal system in existence that can’t be gamed. And probably never will be. (I could probably do a variant of Godel’s Incompleteness Theorem on that.) Attempting to patch the holes just leads to different problems. And we really don’t want to go the ‘Judge Death’ path.

@Katamount:
Yes, in many ways the point of University should be to get you past the Dunning-Kruger hump, down the other side where you realize how much there is that you don’t know yet. That, and teach you how to learn more. Unfortunately, as a lot of universities are trying to become four year tech colleges focusing on preparing people for future jobs, a lot of that is getting lost.

I went through an Engineering program at Waterloo, and as you note, some non-technical electives were required, basically a half year’s worth of the four years. (Philosophy 140, aka Boolean Logic, was explicitly not allowed as a non-technical elective.) I enjoyed that part. Even managed to find one of the English profs who was teaching a Science Fiction analysis course, which included A Canticle for Liebowitz and Native Tongue. I liked that sort of thing. Even went through a Technical Writing two year program later at George Brown, because way too few programmers actually know how to write about it.

And yeah, there are the permanently aggrieved sorts, both left and right, because this is University, and you’re dealing with a lot of people who have just been exposed to shiny new ideas with all the idealism of youth, the free time of those just out of their parents’ place for the first time, and none of the experience on how to tone things down or deal with nuance.

(The Science Fiction club at the University of Waterloo, which I was in, actually ended up getting an Amnesty International chapter kicked out. The Amnesty International group just showed up without warning and started holding meetings in the clubs room, taking up the timeslot that we’d been using for years and bumping us out. We did a little research and found that they weren’t actually a registered club, they’d just assumed that they could get the clubs room key and the guy at the counter hadn’t known to tell them otherwise. We got our timeslot back, and they got an education in proper procedure. I respect Amnesty International in general, but groups like that unfortunately get a lot of folks with more passion than sense acting as if they’re the public face of the group.

And yes, I know that ‘proper procedure’ can be used to marginalize groups. That wasn’t true in this case.)

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
2 years ago

@ jenora

Really, Amnesty groups should meet in pubs; that’s how it all started.

In this one in fact. It’s just next to the Temple so popular with lawyers. It was some lawyer who got outraged about the arrest of some Portuguese students or something, so he wrote an article appealing for ‘Amnesty’. And this is where he hung out with friends and they decided to get a bit more organised.
comment image

It used to be a really nice traditional pub; but now it’s gone a bit trendy wine bar.

LeeshaJoy
LeeshaJoy
2 years ago

I learned that #ThotAudit was a thing yesterday because a middle-aged light fantasy author who I follow on Twitter was targeted by one of these doorknobs. If only all of the manosphere was this hilariously incompetent.

Kimstu
Kimstu
2 years ago

@David:

Two points for the reference to Hegel. One point off for spelling his name wrong.

Not to mention his misspelling of “Untermensch”.

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
2 years ago

@Alan:
I’d actually heard that Amnesty International had started in a pub, I hadn’t known which one. Unfortunately, I suspect the fame for being the place where it started helped cause the ‘trendy wine bar’ aspect. Gentrification is a thing I’ve seen in action.

(I ended up chatting with some people canvassing for Amnesty International a few weeks ago; they were happy that I actually knew most of what they were taking about, which is kind of a sad commentary on things. I consider myself more knowledgeable about Canadian history than even most Canadians, but mostly because I consider that a disturbingly low bar.)

Getting back to some of Katamount’s comments, I think in my case it’s because for me engineering wasn’t about being ‘smart’ or building things, it was about problem solving. I’m one of the better debuggers where I work, because that requires a combination of big picture view and focus on detail that’s hard for most to hold in their head at the same time. I’ve always loved puzzles and figuring out ‘how did this happen in the first place?’

And when you get right down to it, ‘how did this happen’ is the context for a lot of the study of history as well. I just like seeing how the pieces connect, whether it’s a technical problem or a social one.

Amy
Amy
2 years ago

You’d think they’d like the fact that there are girls online you can see pics and videos of. I don’t really understand why they want women who will sleep with them but then hate the women who sleep around. It doesn’t make any sense. It’s like they’re just mad at themselves or something for paying for it.

Moggie
Moggie
2 years ago

Here’s a thread which claims that the guy who started this IRS thing is a serial creeper who hits on underage girls online.

If getting someone investigated by the IRS were as simple as contacting them and saying “I don’t have any evidence of wrongdoing, but maybe you could check them out?”, wouldn’t a certain occupant of the White House be in deep shit right now? Deeper shit, I mean.

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
2 years ago

@ Amy:

It doesn’t make any sense. It’s like they’re just mad at themselves or something for paying for it.

I think you may be onto something, there….

@ Katamount:

And if universities are not creating intellectually curious people, then they really have failed

The universities can create intellectually curious people, but their ideas better stick to the narrative favored by the movers and shakers. If the new idea allows someone to profit, it will be explored (as long as it doesn’t interfere with the power structure’s hold on society.) If the idea enhanced the power structure’s hold on society, it will be explored (as long as it doesn’t interfere with the financial elite’s ability to increase its wealth.) Sometimes, these are the same people and these things can be worked out. In times when the power structure’s hold on power is firm, many new ideas can be generated, e.g. the “Golden Age” of Islam. When the power structure’s hold is tenuous, or when there is discord between the power elite and the financial elite, e.g. the Catholic Reformation, ideas will be suppressed.

The problem, particularly from the religious power elite’s perspective is that new ideas almost never support the status quo.
This is also true for regiemes whose ligitimacy comes from a creation or origin myth. Science has a distressing habit of messing with the truth every time we think we have discerned it. Science uses tools which are the antithesis of Authority and Sanctity, tools which anyone can be trained to use, and which anyone who uses them gets the same results.

From Charles Pierce’s foreword to “Idiot America”…

a pastor named Ray Mummert delivers the line that… in every real sense, sums it up.

“We’ve been attacked,” he says, “by the intelligent, educated segment of our culture.”

… intensified a momentum in the culture away from the values of the Enlightenment and toward a dangerous denial of the consequences of believing nonsense. The rise of Idiot America, though, is essentially a war on expertise. It’s not so much antimodernism or the distrust of the intellectual elites that Richard Hofstadter teased out of the national DNA, although both of those things are part of it. The rise of Idiot America today reflects—for profit, mainly, but also, and more cynically, for political advantage and in the pursuit of power—the breakdown of the consensus that the pursuit of knowledge is a good. It also represents the ascendancy of the notion that the people we should trust the least are the people who know best what they’re talking about. In the new media age, everybody is a historian, or a scientist, or a preacher, or a sage. And if everyone is an expert, then nobody is, and the worst thing you can be in a society where everybody is an expert is, well, an actual expert.

heebee
heebee
2 years ago

Utter Jealousy

Even if someone was avoiding tax (no evidence in this case anyway), I would never snitch anyway, Im more of a “mind my own business guy”

Katamount
Katamount
2 years ago

@Jenora

Getting back to some of Katamount’s comments, I think in my case it’s because for me engineering wasn’t about being ‘smart’ or building things, it was about problem solving.

Exactly. A lot of our focus was on process and the steps that one needed to take on solving a problem. Gathering resources, conducting experiments and so forth. That probably is the state of mind that has me so voraciously committing Canadian history to memory too, as a lot of the political problems that we’re facing now have parallels earlier in our history (or are rooted in decisions made 20-30 years ago).

What bothers me is just how many of my engineering brethren turn out to be the kind of entitled STEMLord shits that become James Damores, that obnoxious ex-Google guy who basically reminds me of Mitch Taylor from Real Genius if he never met Chris Knight and got the “there’s more to life than just pure science” speech. Because bereft of any kind of moral philosophy or any knowledge of history, of course Damore would look around his office and conclude “Yeah, women just aren’t as good as us menfolk.”

@Weird Eddie

The problem, particularly from the religious power elite’s perspective is that new ideas almost never support the status quo.

Which is why I still have a lot of faith in science as an emancipatory tool. We cannot rely on it to take the place of moral philosophy, but we shouldn’t overlook its ability to liberate a lot of people from awful awful circumstance.

The Dungeon of Bad Decisions
The Dungeon of Bad Decisions
2 years ago

Man, I miss the good old days of 2015 when my girlfriend first introduced me to this site and the worst things on here were Roosh V’s writing and Paul Elam’s perception of reality, and the site tagline was “internet misogyny: tracked and mocked” or something like that and didnt feature the name of our actual frigging president because the worst of them all is now in charge

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
2 years ago

You know how MRAs hate Sex and the City with a fiery passion?

For once, they might have a point
http://dlisted.com/2018/11/27/i-didnt-know-that-mary-kay-letourneau-was-a-writer-on-the-sex-and-the-city-3-movie/#more-315199

The plot for the third SATC movie that didn’t happen because Kim Cattrell wanted nothing to do with it was going to feature Samantha getting sick pics from Miranda’s 14 year old son. Ew!

Pie
Pie
2 years ago

@Jenora Feuer

Of course, there’s no legal system in existence that can’t be gamed. And probably never will be. (I could probably do a variant of Godel’s Incompleteness Theorem on that.) Attempting to patch the holes just leads to different problems.

The problem with current laws is more that they’re dreamed up without enough thought about consequences and written down without enough thought about interpretation. A little bit more formal logic and a little bit less knee-jerk something-must-be-done-this-is-something would go a long way.

There’s no need to attribute to logical incompleteness that which can be adequately explained by incompetence. Or something.

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
2 years ago

@ Katamount;

Which is why I still have a lot of faith in science as an emancipatory tool.

That’s exactly why the powers that run the society DON’T like it.

I believe that’s a big part of the reason few past societies bothered to develop technology…. Sure Archimedes’ water screw is cool, but when you have 2000 slaves with buckets, who needs it??

@ Pie;

without enough thought about consequences and written down without enough thought about interpretation.

Thoughts of consequences and of interpretation depend very much on a thoughtful analysis of what’ the future holds….

Consider the U.S. Constitution Second Amendment…. “We the undersigned cast off all responsibility for the consequences of Angry White Men with guns….”

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
2 years ago

@Katamount:
As problematic as Heinlein could be, Lazarus Long’s line about ‘specialization is for insects’ had a point. Having at least some breadth of knowledge is a good thing.

If the overly-specialized people would at least confine their pronouncements to within their specialization, this would be less of a problem. But no, they’re smart people, so obviously all those other fields they aren’t experts in are ‘easy’…

@Pie, Weird Eddie:
Good point, a lot of laws in the real world are written without any real attempt at understanding the consequences. Or written deliberately to create negative consequences. And even in the best of cases, nobody can foresee the consequences decades down the line.

Really, the core set of laws (like various Constitutions) have to be written under the assumption that people with power will be attempting to subvert or abuse them for their own gain, and have ways to prevent them from going too far. The U.S. Constitution was, aside from a few obvious blind spots, a decent attempt at solving that. For its time.

Granted, I’m not sure anybody could write a set of rules that would constrain events when a group that actively believes government is a bad idea manages to get their hands on all the branches of the government.