By David Futrelle
Well, here’s a new one, courtesy of some dude posting on the incel forum Truecels.org.
It’s amazing that something so brief can be so wrong in so many different ways. I don’t even know where to begin with this one, so I won’t.
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A hipster cafe, Berlin, 1933
“So we’re agreed, our platform should be one of socialist policies?”
“I think we should emphasise that we want to establish socialism on a national level, not just provincially.”
“I know I’m always banging on about Marxism, but I really do believe we should highlight that we’re looking out for the interests of the people who actually do the labour, not the capitalists that exploit that.”
“All good points! So how about, National Socialist Workers Party?”
“Ooh, I like it!”
Door bursts open
“Guys, you are not going to believe what’s just happened at that new stadium in Nuremberg.”
Explains
“But we can still keep the name, right?”
@heebee
So, I’m going to take issue with this… virginity is not actually the defining characteristic of incels, and anyone who thinks it is will get a rude awakening once they spend any time on incel fora. It is simply the characteristic that distinguishes them from other bits of the manosphere.
As has been shown on this site time and time again, the most important thing is deep hatred and contempt for feeeemales. If you’re not blaming women (or girls) for everything you feel your life is missing, you ain’t gonna fit in.
Anyone who visits these guys and see all the aggrieved entitlement and misogyny and outright calls to rape and murder feeeemales and sticks around is part of the problem. Declaring #notallincels does not fucking cut it.
They’ve even made a term: escortcel, someone who is still an “incel” even if they’re actually having sex with sex workers. This is because they don’t care about sex or their own virginity really: they want virginal adolescent girls to subjugate themselves to them. Anything else just isn’t good enough.
I think they’re gonna have to come up with a new buzzword soon, “cuck(ed)” is starting to sound/read very much like ‘smurf(ed)’. Although, on the whole, ‘smurf(ed)’, still has more style.
@Jesalin, isn’t there only one smurf feeemale, Smurfette? So the sexual politics of smurf society are probably very different from ours, and they might not recognise the concept of cucking.
@Moggie
I hate to admit knowing this, but Smurfette was later joined by a younger smurf feeeemale called Sassette. But nobody seems to remember her.
If you’re so rich that you would be the highest bidder at a woman auction, why aren’t all the hypergamous females all over you? It’s almost like incel philosophy has a few holes…
I think this is just a risibly over-dramatic way of saying,
“In the past, women found it necessary to marry a guy who would actually support them and their children; now women run around having sex and becoming single mothers and divorced mothers and it must be because there’s some welfare benefit or other that’s being generously dumped on single women”
These guys probably have an equally vague idea on how they’d personally “support” a woman beyond just marrying her. It maybe reflects conservative propaganda, where marriage is presented as a solution to poverty, when conservatives really just want sex-having people to be married.
Moggie:
I just love Terry Pratchett’s spoofing of the gender/sexual dynamics of both Smurfs and cliche “Highland clansmen” in the Nac Mac Feegle.
(IIRC, when it comes to real world communal insects, ants and bees have queens/male drones/female workers, but termites actually have queens/kings/male workers)
It’s not being ‘crazy’ that makes incels dangerous and hateful. It’s their fucking entitlement and bitterness and misogyny that does that. Abide by the comments policy and avoid “crazy” talk, please.
Also, as for the idea of #notallincels being misogynistic fucks, I don’t buy it. The entire point of the movement is about being bitter about women choosing not to have sex with them, as if that’s something that they should be entitled to.
Oh goodie, another “Not all incels are violent rapists” troll. So how long before this one threatens to rape and kill the lot of us?
@scented
yeahhhh, I’m watching this one. WHTM has that incel sock that comes around every few months lookin for pity boners and shit. I forget his previous incarnations but the “im too ugly to date so feel sowwy for me ladiez” is his usual mo.
@cornychips
Yeah, this one is going through the exact same pattern as that other one, too. First dropping an “I’m undateable but totally not gross about it” and then a “not all incels are misogynists.”
I don’t know if David has seen this or not, but it’s sure to irritate the manosphere.
Robot brothel requires consent.
I think Alan has summed up what is wrong with this using a most appropriate example.
No Heebee, if they are identifying as incel they are associating themselves with a movement known for its hatred of women (and most other men), and advocating murderous violence (sainted Elliot Rodger anyone?).
They can just call themselves celibate, or you know, just get on with their lives without banging on about it!
Both my grandmothers suffered abuse from their husbands in the first half of their marriages, one of them leaving for a while in the 50s, returning because of the lack of resources available to her.
Had social security been available I expect my father would not have suffered at the hands of his father to the point where he developed bi-polar disorder.
Almost certainly his 2 younger brothers would not have become criminals, spending significant periods in prison for bank robbery. His sister would have been much less likely to have married an abusive man also.
Yes bozo, women stuck in abusive marriages makes men suffer too! Even if you don’t give a shit about women (and obviously you do not), one of the reasons men like you are so fucked up is because of domestic abuse, and particularly from a controlling patriarch.
@ Viscaria, Lumipuna:
I think Roosh put forth similar views a few years ago in one of his books, where he complained that the socialism in Scandinavian countries made his PUA techniques less successful, basically because women weren’t economically desperate enough to sleep with tourists for the price of a meal. I suspect the society these guys really want is something like Naples at the end of WWII, or Berlin at the height of the inflation crisis.
Utter scumbag roosh is
Cant ever get a girl to sleep with him because he is likeable (which isnt a problem in itself), so uses sleazey manipulation tactics instead, rape, emotional blackmail. Utter scumbag.
Roosh will never be able to get laid with an independent woman who isnt desperate
IIRC, he called the Denmark entry of his book series “Don’t Bang Denmark.”
So, um, have you guys heard about this:
https://www.news.com.au/technology/online/social/rightwing-trolls-report-online-sex-workers-to-tax-authorities-in-thotaudit/news-story/16cff3e5f5f4303b78d1dc23c80af4db
And should have explained by crazy I meant crazy beliefs, not referring to mental health problems, which isnt an excuse
*gradually scales up my side eye at heebee to a full-on basilisk stare*
I think it’s obvious that anyone hanging around in modern incel forums and finding a social life there is toxic. I know for a fact that someone attracted to the *word* “incel” doesn’t have to be a toxic stew, because I have a young (26) male friend, K, I’ve had to coach out of using the label, and while has some entitlement issues, I’m happy to vouch — as is my girlfriend — that he’s not remotely misogynistic or dangerous. He just takes the label literally (he’s celibate, he wishes he weren’t, voila), and it’s taken some persuasion to get him to see that reality has left the definition behind.
Points in his favor: he made lasting female friends taking women’s studies and gender relations courses (my idea) — by listening instead of dominating the discussions. He’s still deeply confused and hurt at the loss of another close platonic female friendship — which me, my girlfriend, and his new life coach (a woman) each independently think happened because she made inept romantic overtures and he accidentally rejected them. He even seems to be able to be a real, not Nice Guy hanger-on, friend to women he *does* lust for — I’m not 100% confident in this but maybe 70% confident, yeah.
Entitlement: definitely there. He feels like his virginity is cruelly unfair and unusual, and yet only wants to date women conventionally hotter than him. We’ve argued over that one; we will again.
But — and this part is also about me in the 1990s — it is possible to feel depressed, and even unpleasantly aggrieved, about being rejected a lot, without holding it against any specific woman. Certainly, three of my four genuine female friends in high school became my friends after deciding (correctly) that I wasn’t going to ask them out on dates again because I’d accepted their “No”s. I then, and K. now, weren’t looking for everyone’s vote. Just one.
I wouldn’t have been attracted to the “incel” label, btw. I had lots better things going on in my life. But even K. isn’t attracted to the forums. Just: words evolve, and not everyone notices at the same time.
@ThatGuyWithThe3DS:
I’ve heard about the tattling on online sex workers, and about the similar harassment–by the usual suspects–of female ASMR video creators on YouTube:
https://www.engadget.com/2018/09/14/paypal-ban-asmr-sound-art-therapy/
@heebee
Casually using the word “crazy” as a pejorative is ableist, too. Regardless of your intent, your words were harmful. Please mind the comments policy.
Moon Custafer – that’s exactly what I thought of as well. “My sex life as a man is ruined by women’s economic independence” is a revealing complaint.
I’ve been reading incel propaganda for several years now, and I don’t see any connection with virgin-shaming. Certainly a big connection with externalized self-hatred and self-pity.
Somewhat related – I have been engaging a lobsterkin over on Reddit. He’s arguing that because men are hardwired to pursue women they fancy* regardless of the woman’s response, men who have been friendzoned** should simply avoid the object of their desire. It’s an amazing example of a correct conclusion derived from false premises.
*Yes, that’s how he phrased it.
**Oh, how he believes in that.