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“We’ve been cucked by Social Security,” incel laments

FDR: The only thing we have to fear is being cucked by Social Security

By David Futrelle

Well, here’s a new one, courtesy of some dude posting on the incel forum Truecels.org.

Weve been cucked by social security  Thread starterAnondump  Parents used to sell their daughters to the highest bidder.  But ever since social security became a thing they no longer need to.

It’s amazing that something so brief can be so wrong in so many different ways. I don’t even know where to begin with this one, so I won’t.

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Handsome :Punkle Stan: Jack

what…does that even mean

Kereea
Kereea
2 years ago

“In their fictional past all women were sold like chattel to whatever men paid their family the most.” It’s a real three-fer, ignoring actual slavery in favor of a fictionalized form, ignoring cultures where women’s families are the ones paying the man’s, AND given it’s clearly America-centric, ignoring the actual history of the nation and why social security was implemented and who it benefits.

Mikey
Mikey
2 years ago

Don’t these people have women family members–and mums? Are they cool with a system that would violate them so? This is ISIS-level regression. Accept that women have agency in their own lives; the past is another country—a deeply fucked one. Especially as chattel (women).

Framboise
Framboise
2 years ago

“Sluts belong in the trash”

Edgy. Pretty edgy, if you ask me.

Handsome :Punkle Stan: Jack
November 24, 2018 at 5:14 pm

what…does that even mean

[TW: abuse mention and sex trafficking mention and poverty/being poor. Avoid reading the below paragraph if any of these topics are triggering to you]
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I don’t even know. I’m guessing that because women are able to access Social Security and other forms of welfare(which, as far as I know, isn’t all that great, from what I’ve heard) that he thinks that women who are scraping by with little to nothing should be controlled by their parents, that they should have no level of autonomy over themselves and that women should be trafficked for sex by Anondump and the other incels, basically. That’s what he means by “cucked by social security”, I’m guessing. Yuuuuuuuuuuuuccccccckkkkkkkk!!!!

This took a while for me to think about, analyze and type this comment out as that forum post was so fucking non-sensical and horrible. Oh my fucking god.

Gijoel
Gijoel
2 years ago

@Mikey Yeah they do, and they don’t care. Everything is about them, and only them. Sex isn’t a pleasurable experience, it’s a status symbol and they’re angry they aren’t being treated the way they expect to be.

heebee
heebee
2 years ago

You have some crazy incels who see sex associated with power, and want to control women. They dont just want successful romantic lives, they want power and control over women

Then you have some guys, who are wrapped in their self pity and hate (and sometimes entitlement, even if it isnt initially recognizable), who identify themselves as an incel, as they believe they are involuntarily celibate. They arent really violent, or aggressive, or have any of the fucked up beliefs that an extreme incel has (that often makes the news on here), but there is still signs of unhealthy/bitter thoughts towards themselves and women in general. They define themselves base on their success or lack of success with women

People like Roosh and PUA artists are complicit in the creation of these incels. They would argue that they are doing the opposite by encouraging men to get laid (via utter sleazy and manipulative tricks) but all they are doing is making men define themselves on their sexual success. Which is a very bad idea. Especially as some men will miss out .

ThatGuyWithThe3DS
ThatGuyWithThe3DS
2 years ago

There’s a lot of stuff wrong with this (no surprise), starting with the fact that women all over the world are sold to the highest bidders. At best, they’re called dowries, and at worst, it’s sexual slavery. Social Security (at least for now) is peanuts, and I doubt that if it didn’t exist families would be selling off their daughters to self-righteous whiners. Not to mention, these guys probably aren’t the “highest bidders” in most contexts.

Such a schmorgesborg of wrong in such a short post. It’d be amazing if it wasn’t so sickening.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
2 years ago

@ heebee

They arent really violent, or aggressive, or have any of the fucked up beliefs that an extreme incel has

By definition, if you identify as Incel, you do have fucked up beliefs; and you encourage and facilitate the violence, even if you don’t carry it out yourself.

There were plenty of Nazis who never so much as attended a rally. They just had ordinary lives and jobs; but I doubt if we’d try to argue you can differentiate between ‘extreme’ and just your everyday sort.

Kate
Kate
2 years ago

Historically speaking, did peasants do the whole dowry thing?

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
2 years ago

Wait, Social Security pensioners are supposed to be selling off their daughters? Wouldn’t their daughters be at least in their 30s and 40s (assuming minimum SS age of 62)? That’s well past the wall.

Or is he saying that a dowry used to be the equivalent of a 401k? But isn’t a dowry basically money/property that the family gives up to marry her off? I’m confused.

Also, like every other right winger, he thinks Social Security is evil, but won’t volunteer to forego it.

Dalillama
Dalillama
2 years ago

Depends on which peasants and where. Many European peasants did, said dowries usually consisting of livestock or artisinal goods

Bina
2 years ago

“Waaaaaa, women have social security other than from a man!” — wails a man who wouldn’t lift a finger or get off his lazy duff to support a woman. In ANY sense of the word. He just expects them to be given to him as a combination housekeeper/maid/mom/sex slave. Probably also expects them to go out and bring home the bacon while his ass is busy eating Cheetos, the better that he can whine about how “that bitch” is taking away jobs he’d never want to do anyway.

Also, that trenchcoat-dude taking aim in his avatar? Very Columbine Massacre-y. Reeks of creepy stalker and murderer-in-the-making, not to mention high-school neo-Nazi. I’m sure that isn’t hindering his social/marital prospects in the least, either!

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Cucked by Social Security sounds like the name of a right wing knockoff of a Chuck Tingle tale.

Bina
2 years ago

Cucked by Social Security sounds like the name of a right wing knockoff of a Chuck Tingle tale.

“Cucked by my own cock”, perhaps?

heebee
heebee
2 years ago

I know a lot of men who identify as incel but don’t believe in violence or even entitlement. They just define themselves based on their celibacy and want to be part of a group, since they feel society left them behind . Too passive to call out the violent incels with fucked up posts though which is a huge problem.

Men virgin shaming other men is what leads to incel culture too .

Rabid Rabbit
Rabid Rabbit
2 years ago

I’d much rather read Tingle’s own “Cucked by Social Security.” I imagine it would be amazing. (And full of buttsex.)

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

I know a lot of men who identify as incel but don’t believe in violence or even entitlement.

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kupo
kupo
2 years ago

@heebee, wwth
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casta
casta
2 years ago

Sure ya do heebee

epronovost
epronovost
2 years ago

@Kate

Yes, dowry were common in almost all civilisation when a woman get’s married, but a dowry isn’t money a groom and his family pays to marry a woman, that’s a bride’s price which is much rarer. Dowry is basically a daughter’s part of her father’s estate she receives when leaving her parents’ home so she can have enough money to raise a family of her own. She owns the dowry and should she divorce her husband, he owes her the dowry and, frequentely, other compensations. Dowries were very problematic for poor family with several girls as, unlike inheritence, a parent must pay it well before his death, cannot spend as much time accumulating wealth to make one and thus led to a lot of infanticide of baby girls. Girl with a small dowry frequently had trouble getting married since they would their future household would be precarious. A few centuries ago, children and marriage went together like butter on toast. Now days, with such thing as family planning and credit and loans amonsgt other, the dowry is a completely useless institution. Plus, now, women can inherit wealth from their parents like men.

Karalora
Karalora
2 years ago

@epronovost

I dunno, I think the dowry tradition lives on in an altered form. Who usually shoulders most of the costs of a wedding ceremony and reception? The bride’s family.

Knitting Cat Lady
Knitting Cat Lady
2 years ago

Where I’m from dowries worked like this:

The bride AND groom got money (or land or other material goods) from their parents as starting capital for their own household.

At the same time wedding presents were things like cookware, crockery, cutlery, bedlinen, etc.

Basically anything besides furniture that you need for a new household.

Pie
Pie
2 years ago

Ah, the good old “temporarily embarrassed millionaire” trope again. Girls were auctioned off to the highest bidder, the suggestion being that J. Asshole Incel would have totally won a good one in an auction by now. You and whose fortune, paedophile?

Not much of a dowry culture in my part off the world these days, but it is assumed that a father will pay for his daughters weddings, which is potentially quite a lot of money. Patriarchy and capitalism, coming together in a beautiful celebration of conspicuous consumption. It’s like they were made for each other…

Pie
Pie
2 years ago

@heebee

I know a lot of men who identify as incel but don’t believe in violence or even entitlement.

So, are you (and they) aware that “incel” is a contraction of “involuntarily celibate”? The implication being, someone else is unreasonably depriving them of the sex they should be getting? That’s entitlement right there. The clue is in the name.

If you don’t want to be associated with a toxic, murderous hate group, don’t fucking name yourself after one.

heebee
heebee
2 years ago

Pie

I agree, it is stupid to name yourself and define yourself after your virginity, especially with a toxic group such as incels, which wont do anything to help you at all

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45284455

Like she founded the movement, but she doesnt sound bitter or entitled. I know the group has changed since, and the word incel doesnt even make sense (technically they could just pay for sex but they dont as they think its beneath them) but a lot of guys are joining the group/identifying themselves as incels as they see their virginity as a big deal that defines them

I do my best to stop men from virgin shaming others, which is another cause of the incel subculture

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
2 years ago

A hipster cafe, Berlin, 1933

“So we’re agreed, our platform should be one of socialist policies?”

“I think we should emphasise that we want to establish socialism on a national level, not just provincially.”

“I know I’m always banging on about Marxism, but I really do believe we should highlight that we’re looking out for the interests of the people who actually do the labour, not the capitalists that exploit that.”

“All good points! So how about, National Socialist Workers Party?”

“Ooh, I like it!”

Door bursts open

“Guys, you are not going to believe what’s just happened at that new stadium in Nuremberg.”

Explains

“But we can still keep the name, right?”

Pie
Pie
2 years ago

@heebee

but a lot of guys are joining the group/identifying themselves as incels as they see their virginity as a big deal that defines them

So, I’m going to take issue with this… virginity is not actually the defining characteristic of incels, and anyone who thinks it is will get a rude awakening once they spend any time on incel fora. It is simply the characteristic that distinguishes them from other bits of the manosphere.

As has been shown on this site time and time again, the most important thing is deep hatred and contempt for feeeemales. If you’re not blaming women (or girls) for everything you feel your life is missing, you ain’t gonna fit in.

Anyone who visits these guys and see all the aggrieved entitlement and misogyny and outright calls to rape and murder feeeemales and sticks around is part of the problem. Declaring #notallincels does not fucking cut it.

technically they could just pay for sex but they dont as they think its beneath them

They’ve even made a term: escortcel, someone who is still an “incel” even if they’re actually having sex with sex workers. This is because they don’t care about sex or their own virginity really: they want virginal adolescent girls to subjugate themselves to them. Anything else just isn’t good enough.

Jesalin: Clit-o-centric Lesbian Goddess
Jesalin: Clit-o-centric Lesbian Goddess
2 years ago

I think they’re gonna have to come up with a new buzzword soon, “cuck(ed)” is starting to sound/read very much like ‘smurf(ed)’. Although, on the whole, ‘smurf(ed)’, still has more style.

weve been smurfed by social security

-smurfdump

Moggie
Moggie
2 years ago

@Jesalin, isn’t there only one smurf feeemale, Smurfette? So the sexual politics of smurf society are probably very different from ours, and they might not recognise the concept of cucking.

Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
2 years ago

@Moggie

I hate to admit knowing this, but Smurfette was later joined by a younger smurf feeeemale called Sassette. But nobody seems to remember her.

Viscaria
Viscaria
2 years ago

If you’re so rich that you would be the highest bidder at a woman auction, why aren’t all the hypergamous females all over you? It’s almost like incel philosophy has a few holes…

Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
2 years ago

I think this is just a risibly over-dramatic way of saying,

“In the past, women found it necessary to marry a guy who would actually support them and their children; now women run around having sex and becoming single mothers and divorced mothers and it must be because there’s some welfare benefit or other that’s being generously dumped on single women”

These guys probably have an equally vague idea on how they’d personally “support” a woman beyond just marrying her. It maybe reflects conservative propaganda, where marriage is presented as a solution to poverty, when conservatives really just want sex-having people to be married.

Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
2 years ago

Moggie:

Isn’t there only one smurf feeemale, Smurfette? So the sexual politics of smurf society are probably very different from ours, and they might not recognise the concept of cucking.

I just love Terry Pratchett’s spoofing of the gender/sexual dynamics of both Smurfs and cliche “Highland clansmen” in the Nac Mac Feegle.

(IIRC, when it comes to real world communal insects, ants and bees have queens/male drones/female workers, but termites actually have queens/kings/male workers)

Catalpa
Catalpa
2 years ago

You have some crazy incels who see sex associated with power, and want to control women.

It’s not being ‘crazy’ that makes incels dangerous and hateful. It’s their fucking entitlement and bitterness and misogyny that does that. Abide by the comments policy and avoid “crazy” talk, please.

Also, as for the idea of #notallincels being misogynistic fucks, I don’t buy it. The entire point of the movement is about being bitter about women choosing not to have sex with them, as if that’s something that they should be entitled to.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
2 years ago

Oh goodie, another “Not all incels are violent rapists” troll. So how long before this one threatens to rape and kill the lot of us?

cornychips
cornychips
2 years ago

@scented

yeahhhh, I’m watching this one. WHTM has that incel sock that comes around every few months lookin for pity boners and shit. I forget his previous incarnations but the “im too ugly to date so feel sowwy for me ladiez” is his usual mo.

kupo
kupo
2 years ago

@cornychips
Yeah, this one is going through the exact same pattern as that other one, too. First dropping an “I’m undateable but totally not gross about it” and then a “not all incels are misogynists.”

Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
2 years ago

I don’t know if David has seen this or not, but it’s sure to irritate the manosphere.

Robot brothel requires consent.

ellesar
ellesar
2 years ago

I know a lot of men who identify as incel but don’t believe in violence or even entitlement

I think Alan has summed up what is wrong with this using a most appropriate example.

No Heebee, if they are identifying as incel they are associating themselves with a movement known for its hatred of women (and most other men), and advocating murderous violence (sainted Elliot Rodger anyone?).

They can just call themselves celibate, or you know, just get on with their lives without banging on about it!

ellesar
ellesar
2 years ago

Both my grandmothers suffered abuse from their husbands in the first half of their marriages, one of them leaving for a while in the 50s, returning because of the lack of resources available to her.

Had social security been available I expect my father would not have suffered at the hands of his father to the point where he developed bi-polar disorder.

Almost certainly his 2 younger brothers would not have become criminals, spending significant periods in prison for bank robbery. His sister would have been much less likely to have married an abusive man also.

Yes bozo, women stuck in abusive marriages makes men suffer too! Even if you don’t give a shit about women (and obviously you do not), one of the reasons men like you are so fucked up is because of domestic abuse, and particularly from a controlling patriarch.

Moon Custafer
Moon Custafer
2 years ago

@ Viscaria, Lumipuna:

I think Roosh put forth similar views a few years ago in one of his books, where he complained that the socialism in Scandinavian countries made his PUA techniques less successful, basically because women weren’t economically desperate enough to sleep with tourists for the price of a meal. I suspect the society these guys really want is something like Naples at the end of WWII, or Berlin at the height of the inflation crisis.

heebee
heebee
2 years ago

Utter scumbag roosh is

Cant ever get a girl to sleep with him because he is likeable (which isnt a problem in itself), so uses sleazey manipulation tactics instead, rape, emotional blackmail. Utter scumbag.

Roosh will never be able to get laid with an independent woman who isnt desperate

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

IIRC, he called the Denmark entry of his book series “Don’t Bang Denmark.”

heebee
heebee
2 years ago

And should have explained by crazy I meant crazy beliefs, not referring to mental health problems, which isnt an excuse

Cyborgette
Cyborgette
2 years ago

*gradually scales up my side eye at heebee to a full-on basilisk stare*

Voxpoptart
Voxpoptart
2 years ago

I think it’s obvious that anyone hanging around in modern incel forums and finding a social life there is toxic. I know for a fact that someone attracted to the *word* “incel” doesn’t have to be a toxic stew, because I have a young (26) male friend, K, I’ve had to coach out of using the label, and while has some entitlement issues, I’m happy to vouch — as is my girlfriend — that he’s not remotely misogynistic or dangerous. He just takes the label literally (he’s celibate, he wishes he weren’t, voila), and it’s taken some persuasion to get him to see that reality has left the definition behind.

Points in his favor: he made lasting female friends taking women’s studies and gender relations courses (my idea) — by listening instead of dominating the discussions. He’s still deeply confused and hurt at the loss of another close platonic female friendship — which me, my girlfriend, and his new life coach (a woman) each independently think happened because she made inept romantic overtures and he accidentally rejected them. He even seems to be able to be a real, not Nice Guy hanger-on, friend to women he *does* lust for — I’m not 100% confident in this but maybe 70% confident, yeah.

Entitlement: definitely there. He feels like his virginity is cruelly unfair and unusual, and yet only wants to date women conventionally hotter than him. We’ve argued over that one; we will again.

But — and this part is also about me in the 1990s — it is possible to feel depressed, and even unpleasantly aggrieved, about being rejected a lot, without holding it against any specific woman. Certainly, three of my four genuine female friends in high school became my friends after deciding (correctly) that I wasn’t going to ask them out on dates again because I’d accepted their “No”s. I then, and K. now, weren’t looking for everyone’s vote. Just one.

I wouldn’t have been attracted to the “incel” label, btw. I had lots better things going on in my life. But even K. isn’t attracted to the forums. Just: words evolve, and not everyone notices at the same time.

Full Metal Ox
2 years ago

@ThatGuyWithThe3DS:

I’ve heard about the tattling on online sex workers, and about the similar harassment–by the usual suspects–of female ASMR video creators on YouTube:

https://www.engadget.com/2018/09/14/paypal-ban-asmr-sound-art-therapy/

kupo
kupo
2 years ago

@heebee

And should have explained by crazy I meant crazy beliefs, not referring to mental health problems, which isnt an excuse

Casually using the word “crazy” as a pejorative is ableist, too. Regardless of your intent, your words were harmful. Please mind the comments policy.

Robert
Robert
2 years ago

Moon Custafer – that’s exactly what I thought of as well. “My sex life as a man is ruined by women’s economic independence” is a revealing complaint.

I’ve been reading incel propaganda for several years now, and I don’t see any connection with virgin-shaming. Certainly a big connection with externalized self-hatred and self-pity.

Somewhat related – I have been engaging a lobsterkin over on Reddit. He’s arguing that because men are hardwired to pursue women they fancy* regardless of the woman’s response, men who have been friendzoned** should simply avoid the object of their desire. It’s an amazing example of a correct conclusion derived from false premises.

*Yes, that’s how he phrased it.

**Oh, how he believes in that.