By David Futrelle
Well, here’s a new one, courtesy of some dude posting on the incel forum Truecels.org.
It’s amazing that something so brief can be so wrong in so many different ways. I don’t even know where to begin with this one, so I won’t.
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what…does that even mean
“In their fictional past all women were sold like chattel to whatever men paid their family the most.” It’s a real three-fer, ignoring actual slavery in favor of a fictionalized form, ignoring cultures where women’s families are the ones paying the man’s, AND given it’s clearly America-centric, ignoring the actual history of the nation and why social security was implemented and who it benefits.
Don’t these people have women family members–and mums? Are they cool with a system that would violate them so? This is ISIS-level regression. Accept that women have agency in their own lives; the past is another country—a deeply fucked one. Especially as chattel (women).
“Sluts belong in the trash”
Edgy. Pretty edgy, if you ask me.
[TW: abuse mention and sex trafficking mention and poverty/being poor. Avoid reading the below paragraph if any of these topics are triggering to you]
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I don’t even know. I’m guessing that because women are able to access Social Security and other forms of welfare(which, as far as I know, isn’t all that great, from what I’ve heard) that he thinks that women who are scraping by with little to nothing should be controlled by their parents, that they should have no level of autonomy over themselves and that women should be trafficked for sex by Anondump and the other incels, basically. That’s what he means by “cucked by social security”, I’m guessing. Yuuuuuuuuuuuuccccccckkkkkkkk!!!!
This took a while for me to think about, analyze and type this comment out as that forum post was so fucking non-sensical and horrible. Oh my fucking god.
@Mikey Yeah they do, and they don’t care. Everything is about them, and only them. Sex isn’t a pleasurable experience, it’s a status symbol and they’re angry they aren’t being treated the way they expect to be.
You have some crazy incels who see sex associated with power, and want to control women. They dont just want successful romantic lives, they want power and control over women
Then you have some guys, who are wrapped in their self pity and hate (and sometimes entitlement, even if it isnt initially recognizable), who identify themselves as an incel, as they believe they are involuntarily celibate. They arent really violent, or aggressive, or have any of the fucked up beliefs that an extreme incel has (that often makes the news on here), but there is still signs of unhealthy/bitter thoughts towards themselves and women in general. They define themselves base on their success or lack of success with women
People like Roosh and PUA artists are complicit in the creation of these incels. They would argue that they are doing the opposite by encouraging men to get laid (via utter sleazy and manipulative tricks) but all they are doing is making men define themselves on their sexual success. Which is a very bad idea. Especially as some men will miss out .
There’s a lot of stuff wrong with this (no surprise), starting with the fact that women all over the world are sold to the highest bidders. At best, they’re called dowries, and at worst, it’s sexual slavery. Social Security (at least for now) is peanuts, and I doubt that if it didn’t exist families would be selling off their daughters to self-righteous whiners. Not to mention, these guys probably aren’t the “highest bidders” in most contexts.
Such a schmorgesborg of wrong in such a short post. It’d be amazing if it wasn’t so sickening.
@ heebee
By definition, if you identify as Incel, you do have fucked up beliefs; and you encourage and facilitate the violence, even if you don’t carry it out yourself.
There were plenty of Nazis who never so much as attended a rally. They just had ordinary lives and jobs; but I doubt if we’d try to argue you can differentiate between ‘extreme’ and just your everyday sort.
Historically speaking, did peasants do the whole dowry thing?
Wait, Social Security pensioners are supposed to be selling off their daughters? Wouldn’t their daughters be at least in their 30s and 40s (assuming minimum SS age of 62)? That’s well past the wall.
Or is he saying that a dowry used to be the equivalent of a 401k? But isn’t a dowry basically money/property that the family gives up to marry her off? I’m confused.
Also, like every other right winger, he thinks Social Security is evil, but won’t volunteer to forego it.
Depends on which peasants and where. Many European peasants did, said dowries usually consisting of livestock or artisinal goods
“Waaaaaa, women have social security other than from a man!” — wails a man who wouldn’t lift a finger or get off his lazy duff to support a woman. In ANY sense of the word. He just expects them to be given to him as a combination housekeeper/maid/mom/sex slave. Probably also expects them to go out and bring home the bacon while his ass is busy eating Cheetos, the better that he can whine about how “that bitch” is taking away jobs he’d never want to do anyway.
Also, that trenchcoat-dude taking aim in his avatar? Very Columbine Massacre-y. Reeks of creepy stalker and murderer-in-the-making, not to mention high-school neo-Nazi. I’m sure that isn’t hindering his social/marital prospects in the least, either!
Cucked by Social Security sounds like the name of a right wing knockoff of a Chuck Tingle tale.
“Cucked by my own cock”, perhaps?
I know a lot of men who identify as incel but don’t believe in violence or even entitlement. They just define themselves based on their celibacy and want to be part of a group, since they feel society left them behind . Too passive to call out the violent incels with fucked up posts though which is a huge problem.
Men virgin shaming other men is what leads to incel culture too .
I’d much rather read Tingle’s own “Cucked by Social Security.” I imagine it would be amazing. (And full of buttsex.)
@heebee, wwth
Sure ya do heebee
@Kate
Yes, dowry were common in almost all civilisation when a woman get’s married, but a dowry isn’t money a groom and his family pays to marry a woman, that’s a bride’s price which is much rarer. Dowry is basically a daughter’s part of her father’s estate she receives when leaving her parents’ home so she can have enough money to raise a family of her own. She owns the dowry and should she divorce her husband, he owes her the dowry and, frequentely, other compensations. Dowries were very problematic for poor family with several girls as, unlike inheritence, a parent must pay it well before his death, cannot spend as much time accumulating wealth to make one and thus led to a lot of infanticide of baby girls. Girl with a small dowry frequently had trouble getting married since they would their future household would be precarious. A few centuries ago, children and marriage went together like butter on toast. Now days, with such thing as family planning and credit and loans amonsgt other, the dowry is a completely useless institution. Plus, now, women can inherit wealth from their parents like men.
@epronovost
I dunno, I think the dowry tradition lives on in an altered form. Who usually shoulders most of the costs of a wedding ceremony and reception? The bride’s family.
Where I’m from dowries worked like this:
The bride AND groom got money (or land or other material goods) from their parents as starting capital for their own household.
At the same time wedding presents were things like cookware, crockery, cutlery, bedlinen, etc.
Basically anything besides furniture that you need for a new household.
Ah, the good old “temporarily embarrassed millionaire” trope again. Girls were auctioned off to the highest bidder, the suggestion being that J. Asshole Incel would have totally won a good one in an auction by now. You and whose fortune, paedophile?
Not much of a dowry culture in my part off the world these days, but it is assumed that a father will pay for his daughters weddings, which is potentially quite a lot of money. Patriarchy and capitalism, coming together in a beautiful celebration of conspicuous consumption. It’s like they were made for each other…
@heebee
So, are you (and they) aware that “incel” is a contraction of “involuntarily celibate”? The implication being, someone else is unreasonably depriving them of the sex they should be getting? That’s entitlement right there. The clue is in the name.
If you don’t want to be associated with a toxic, murderous hate group, don’t fucking name yourself after one.
Pie
I agree, it is stupid to name yourself and define yourself after your virginity, especially with a toxic group such as incels, which wont do anything to help you at all
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45284455
Like she founded the movement, but she doesnt sound bitter or entitled. I know the group has changed since, and the word incel doesnt even make sense (technically they could just pay for sex but they dont as they think its beneath them) but a lot of guys are joining the group/identifying themselves as incels as they see their virginity as a big deal that defines them
I do my best to stop men from virgin shaming others, which is another cause of the incel subculture