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The Daily Stormer is afraid of witches, and wants to bring back the Burning Times

This is literally what the Daily Stormer wants

By David Futrelle

The neo-Nazi internet tabloid The Daily Stormer is now declaring war on witches, and wants to bring back “the burning times.”

In a recent post on the site, contributor “Roy Batty” — presumably not the actual replicant from Blade Runner — reports the alarming (to him) news that the “Number of Witches [is] Drastically on the Rise.”  As evidence for this claim, he cites a recent piece from a sometimes-fact-challenged far-right site called CNSNews.com asserting that

the number of witches (and Wiccans) has dramatically increased since the 1990s, to the degree that there may be at least 1.5 million witches in the United States, which is higher than the 1.4 million mainline Presbyterians.

As it turns out, this is an exaggerated misrepresentation of a questionable calculation based on a mistaken reading of a survey from Pew Research. CNSNews.com got the 1.5 million figure from The Christian Post, which got it from an article on Quartz, which claimed

the Pew Research Center … found [in a 2014 survey] that 0.4% of Americans, or around 1 to 1.5 million people, identify as Wicca or Pagan.

So basically a source claiming at most 1.5 million Wiccans and Pagans got turned into a claim that there are at least 1.5 million.

On top of that, Quartz got it wrong: the actual Pew study claims only 0.3% of Americans identify as Wiccan or Pagan. (The 0.4% is for all New Age believers.) If you do the math using the current US population figures you get a little less than a million following some form of Wicca or Paganism, fewer still if you only include adults.  (Also, according to that same survey, there are roughly 4.5 million Americans who identify themselves as mainline Presbyterians; 1.4 million is the number the Presbyterian Church (USA) says are “active members.”)

But, whatever, there are a lot of witches out there, the number is apparently growing, and the Daily Stormer’s Roy Batty is feeling scared.

“I never really believed in all this bullshit,” he writes.

But recently… idk.

It’s hard to look at all this shit that’s happening in the world and explain it through economics. It’s hard to explain it even through the political lens.

He then tells a rather hard-to-believe story he claims to have heard from an unnamed “girl” who used to spend her summers in a tiny, rustic village, complete with a strange old woman who lived in an old house on the outskirts of town — and who once, the girl insisted, brought down a lightning bolt from the sky after scratching some weird symbols in the dirt outside the girl’s home while “muttering dark-sounding things” under her breath.

Now Batty isn’t quite convinced that witchcraft is real. But he doesn’t like the idea of strange women going around scaring people by scratching occult symbols in the dirt and muttering and whatnot.

All I know is that I don’t want to have to deal with that kind of shit in my life. And because my ancestors did such a good job dealing with it back then I never even thought about it as a real possibility.

But it is. 

Think about it, you might end up with a freak as a neighbor in your little condo who likes to leave dark-looking squiggles on your door or dead reptiles under your welcome mat or something.

I guarantee you that it will freak you and the neighbors out because it is so antisocial and because it is just weird in a way that we’re not used to.

But alas, Batty continues, you can’t just punch the witches until they stop.

Witching is passive-aggressive. You can’t beat her up, otherwise you go to jail. You can’t admit to anyone that she’s spooking you and your kids out because the fedoras will mob you and chew you out.

Batty proposes a rather old-school “solution” to this old-school problem: bring back the so-called burning times.

He praises his Western European ancestors for doing

a very good job ridding Europe of its witches. People don’t realize how lucky they are to live in a witch-free society. Seriously. It’s like sanitation and roads and all the other things we take for granted in White civilization.

Now that witches are growing in number again, he suggests, what we in the west really need is “for an Inquisition to come back and purge the witches from our lands.”

In other words, literal witch trials — and the genocide of a religious minority.

Now, it might be tempting to see Batty’s post as little more than typical Daily Stormer trolling — especially given his casual, often flippant tone and his utter lack of interest in doing any actual research on the subject beyond quoting an incorrect number from a questionable site and relating a bullshit story he says he once heard.

But if you look at the comments under Batty’s post you won’t find a lot of jokes there. Yes, you’ll see a comment from someone called Willy declaring that “witches are insane cat ladies from hell who will steal you rhubarb plants.”

But most of the commenters seem to take this all very seriously — and to support Batty’s murderous “solution.”

One commenter declares:

The Book of Exodus states, “Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.” This one line from the Bible is proof enough for me to believe that witches exist and should not be suffered to live.

Another adds:

k*kes are promoting witchcraft and other forms of Satanism/demon worship on normie television for kids/teenagers.

There is a supernatural world out there. Demons are real, if you doubt this, be happy you have never seen or experienced ‘meeting’ one. If you do encounter any demons, call out to Jesus Christ for assistance. Verbally. He will help you.

Listen to Gregorian chants if you’re being accompanied or stalked.

 And look, I know this sounds crazy if you aren’t used to this supernatural mumbo jumbo, I get that. Trust me though. I wouldn’t say this kind of shit for no reason.

Still another says that while he thinks witches today are just “larping … they should still be killed.”

It would be easy to dismiss this comment itself as a sort of internet LARPing, were it not for the fact that Nazis in the US have already started killing people.

We live in fucked-up times.

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Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
1 year ago

This is reminding me of when Sarah Palin had preachers praying over her to protect her from witchcraft. Think Trump is going to volunteer for a similar photo op – I mean, ritual?

AsAboveSoBelow
AsAboveSoBelow
1 year ago

…brought down a lightning bolt from the sky after scratching some weird symbols in the dirt outside the girl’s home while “muttering dark-sounding things” under her breath.”

I’ll take “Things Made Up To Impress the Gullible” for $600, Alex.

@Catalpa:

Though I might try to talk her into using animal-cruelty-free spell components next time.

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Citerior Motive
Citerior Motive
1 year ago

The great majority of the victims of Early Modern witch trials, were of course Christian—modern neopaganism didn’t get started until the last quarter of the nineteenth century at the earliest.

Weren’t these fuckers’ ideological forebears quite keen on the occult? I’m thinking of Alfred Rosenberg’s The Myth of the Twentieth Century, a work just as virulently racist/antisemitic as Mein Kampf, but a lot less well known.

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
1 year ago

@ V.P.:

content warning, this is the organization’s home page
https://www.potusshield.org/

Already done… this bunch of fantasy fans organized “POTUS Shield” right after the dumpster was appointed president.

In Frightened White People news, a CNN piece on the South African Evangelical White-wing….

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2018/11/africa/south-africa-suidlanders-intl/

Steven I Dutch
Steven I Dutch
1 year ago

“It’s hard to look at all this shit that’s happening in the world and explain it through economics. It’s hard to explain it even through the political lens.”

How about stupidity? Does that work for you? Works for me.

I have a neighbor I would gladly swap for a Wiccan. Especially one who can teach me how to clean my house by wiggling my nose.

I don’t need Wiccans to drop dead things on my doorstep. I have a cat.

Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko, Regicidal Beast-of-Burden
Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko, Regicidal Beast-of-Burden
1 year ago

Meanwhile in Philadelphia :

comment image

The whole story’s here.

Red Lion
Red Lion
1 year ago

I don’t know if it’s true but I’ve heard that most of the witches burned in medieval Europe were financially independent women.

Something tells me this is the “withcraft” that this bozo is afraid of.

Kimstu
Kimstu
1 year ago

@ lumpenbigot posting as “Roy Batty”:

Think about it, you might end up with a freak as a neighbor in your little condo who likes to leave dark-looking squiggles on your door or dead reptiles under your welcome mat or something. […]

Witching is passive-aggressive. You can’t beat her up, otherwise you go to jail. You can’t admit to anyone that she’s spooking you and your kids out because the fedoras will mob you and chew you out.

Uh, as reasonable people are perfectly well aware, if you have a neighbor who leaves graffiti on your door or “dead reptiles under your welcome mat”, those actions are illegal and you can indeed have recourse to the law to stop them.

Unfortunately (or not), the law is helpless to protect you from your own irrational fears about an imaginary witchy neighbor who, somehow, not only gets away with violating laws against trespass and vandalism, but has an equally imaginary “mob” of “fedoras” to back her up if you complain about her illegal behavior.

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
1 year ago

I don’t need Wiccans to drop dead things on my doorstep. I have a cat.

I had a dog, some kinda hound (he wandered in one day, and stayed)…. One day, he dragged a dead animal home, so I took it and threw it in the field across the hiway…. Half-hour later, doggie is chewing on the dead thing in the driveway. I put the dog in the shed and took the dead thing down the road and threw it into the ditch. Half-hour later, doggie is chewing on the dead thing in the driveway. I got in my car, and with the dead thing hanging out the window, I drove about ten miles and dropped the dead thing in the ditch.

… the things we do….

@ Steven I Dutch

I have a neighbor I would gladly swap for a Wiccan. Especially one who can teach me how to clean my house by wiggling my nose.

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Regarding wite genaside, etc., I have read and heard an Encyclopoedia Brittanica worth of “reasons” why the lives of white-xian people are worth more than the lives of non-white-xian people…. A conversation with a former family member a few days ago (when a married couple divorce, are the siblings-in-law still siblings-in-law?? :\ )…
Began with a discussion of the land reform movement in South Africa, continued into a discussion of reparations to the descendants of enslaved and colonized people in U.S. and worldwide.

They objected that all these evils happened over a generation ago, and some happened as much as eight generations ago. I allowed as how, no, the people who are alive today didn’t MAKE that bed… no…. BUT they have been fighting tooth and nail, since the beginning, resisting every effort to CHANGE THE BEDDING

They asked me if I cared at all that white people were being marginalized and murdered in South Africa. I allowed as how of course I cared, I’m not an asshole (notwithstanding that the crisis is not NEARLY as extreme as some believe, if it were, I would care.) They then demanded that I justify my opposition to the political and social forces which are attempting to stop the wite-ists from being genasided….

My answer is, I am not going to vote to sacrifice the lives and welfare of my children and grandchildren, of my friends and loved ones and of literally every group that is not white-xian to enable people who have actively avoided doing anything to stop the oppression of others.

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
1 year ago

@Moggie:
Well, some of the Nazis were into the occult; I believe one of the big ones was (can’t remember which one) but Hitler himself definitely was not. My understanding is that Hitler was pretty much a Catholic creationist with little emotional connection to any actual church; he’d probably have been a Sedevacantist if Vatican II had happened in his lifetime.

@Katamount:
Well, there’s a reason why it’s called the ‘Episcopalian’ church in the U.S. rather than the ‘Anglican’ church.

That said, I recall hearing years ago that there actually was a growing ‘Anglican’ church in the U.S…. consisting mostly of the conservative members who though the Episcopalian church was getting too liberal but who didn’t want to break entirely with the power structure yet, instead banding together with some of the more conservative Anglican churches in Africa to try and force a split from the inside.

@All:
With regards to POTUSShield and such groups… isn’t it interesting that a lot of the people talking about evil witches placing curses on people also have no problem talking about ‘imprecatory prayer’. Of course, when they do it it’s calling down God’s wrath; when somebody else does it, it’s the Devil’s work. Aside from the supposed source, how much difference is there really, at least in the shallow minds of those doing the talking?

(Aside from the fact that most actual Wiccans I know have a rather more in-depth understanding of the world and their belief system than the folks who loudly proclaim themselves to be Christian…)

Fishy Goat
Fishy Goat
1 year ago

@Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie It’s the doggo version of “The Cat Came Back”. 😀

THE CAT CAME BACK – Oscar Nominated Short Animated Film …

dust bunny
dust bunny
1 year ago

@ Weatherwax

They don’t think it’s genetic, but they understand that a great way to destroy the social power of a group and stomp out their traditions is to persecute them. This isn’t a thing I know anything about but I’ve been told that most surviving witchcraft is indigenous and that most European witchcraft traditions are pretty much irretrievably lost. Witches have no institutional power in western societies like they used to before the persecution.

Hexum7
Hexum7
1 year ago

I read that the those accused in the Salem Witch trials were predominantly elderly people whose land abutted some of the richer landowners’ property. Those accused refused to sell their plots so the richer farms could not expand as much as they’d like

In other words, they wanted to get rid of the victims. They were hated, “unreasonably” stubborn, considered strange because they still clung to the “old ways”…. and in the way. Demonization makes it easy to do that eh?

Robert
Robert
1 year ago

OT – Theodore Beale (aka Vox Day) has published a book, “Jordanetics”, criticizing everyone’s favorite Lobster King. Milo “Look at me!” Yiannopolous wrote the forward, which is just as cringe-inducing as you’d expect. The Reddit Lobsterkin are beeping and honking about it. It’s a little like seeing meth dealers fighting heroin dealers in an alley; you wish there was some way for both sides to lose.

Weird ( ) Eddie – I remember that! It didn’t end well.

My husband and his two best friends are witches; it’s been a real education for me. A number of years ago, I made him a wand and an athame by hand for Solstice. His friends were gratifyingly impressed.

Citerior Motive
Citerior Motive
1 year ago

@Jenora The ‘big one’ you’re probably thinking of is Rosenberg, as I mentioned above. As I recall Hitler promoted TMot20C because he thought it was good for the Nazi cause, but privately he hated it.

Kiwiwriter
Kiwiwriter
1 year ago

Witchcraft
Frank Sinatra

Those fingers in my hair
That sly come-hither stare
That strips my conscience bare

It’s witchcraft
And I’ve got no defense for it
The heat is too intense for it
What good would common sense for it do?

‘Cause it’s witchcraft
Wicked witchcraft
And although, I know, it’s strictly taboo

When you arouse the need in me
My heart says yes indeed in me
Proceed with what you’re leading me to

It’s such an ancient pitch
But one I wouldn’t switch
‘Cause there’s no nicer witch than you

‘Cause it’s witchcraft
That crazy witchcraft
And although, I know, it’s strictly taboo

When you arouse the need in me
My heart says yes indeed in me
Proceed with what you’re leading me to

It’s such an ancient pitch
But one that I’d never switch
‘Cause there’s no nicer witch than you

Songwriters: Carolyn Leigh / Cy Coleman
Witchcraft lyrics © Downtown Music Publishing, Words & Music A Div Of Big Deal Music LLC

Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
1 year ago

dust bunny:

This isn’t a thing I know anything about but I’ve been told that most surviving witchcraft is indigenous and that most European witchcraft traditions are pretty much irretrievably lost. Witches have no institutional power in western societies like they used to before the persecution.

AFAIK, while Christianity eradicated most pagan traditions and beliefs, and while witch trials were a horrific abuse of justice, what really made people stop believing in witchcraft was modern science and education.

Over the last couple centuries, emerging nationalism and the breaking of Christian theocracy has also allowed some revival and reinventing of fragmentary pagan traditions in countries such as Lithuania, Estonia, Iceland and Wales. I think the idea of modern witchcraft is not usually considered central in these national neopagan movements, unlike (?) in Wicca.

Bina
1 year ago

@Robert:

OT – Theodore Beale (aka Vox Day) has published a book, “Jordanetics”, criticizing everyone’s favorite Lobster King. Milo “Look at me!” Yiannopolous wrote the forward, which is just as cringe-inducing as you’d expect. The Reddit Lobsterkin are beeping and honking about it. It’s a little like seeing meth dealers fighting heroin dealers in an alley; you wish there was some way for both sides to lose.

Huh. And here I thought those attention-hungry bozos would love him because he affirms their hatred for unmanly men and unwomanly women and other, harder-to-stereotype folk. But hey, as long as they’re tearing each other’s hair out, there’s no need for the rest of us to do it, so…win?

Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
1 year ago

At least one well-known Finnish neopagan activist (Miika Vanhakylä, of the officially recognized Karhun kansa community) titles himself “noita”, an old Finnish word which in general usage has taken a convergent meaning to English “witch”. However, he doesn’t seem to explore actual witchcraft but rather seeks connection to ancestors and nature’s resident spirits.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
1 year ago

Re: Witches and Wartime

This is a moderately interesting case.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Duncan

The Witchcraft Act 1735 was abolished by the Fraudulent Mediums Act 1951. That Act stated that witchcraft was no longer an offence; but created a new offence related to charging money for ‘spiritual’ services.

With the rise of mediums as popular entertainment it was thought that that offence was obsolete; so the government did intend to repeal the 1951 Act. But then it was pointed out that that would reinstate witchcraft as an offence.

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
1 year ago

re: witchcraft, particularly wicca

where’re Dalillama and Scildfreja? In my estimation, they know a LOT about this subject!

KG
KG
1 year ago

Well, some of the Nazis were into the occult; I believe one of the big ones was (can’t remember which one) but Hitler himself definitely was not. – Jenora Feuer

On the contrary, Hitler had an extensive occult library, and a sustained interest in occult subjects. See for example Hitler’s Private Library by Timothy W. Ryback (particularly chapter 11), and Hitler’s Monsters by Eric Kurlander. His interests did not, however, resemble those of most neopagans, and shaded into what is more naturally described as pseudoscience, particularly the “World Ice Theory” of Hans Hörbiger. He was a baptised Catholic, and never publicly renounced the Church, but his beliefs in the later part of his life seem to have been remote from doctrinally orthodox Christianity, although he continued to believe in a supernatural force that guided his decisions.

Pen
Pen
1 year ago

He praises his Western European ancestors for doing … “a very good job ridding Europe of its witches.”

The museum in Lichtenstein has an excellent exhibit on this very topic. It carefully explained how people who informed on witches were allowed to claim all of the witch’s property as a reward. And the consequences of that fact.

Now please excuse me while I turn the readership of Daily Stormer into toads.

Dormousing_it
Dormousing_it
1 year ago

@Victorious Parasol:

I’m reminded of the time – I think it was during the last Presidential race – when a bunch of holy roller-type preachers did the old “laying on of hands” with the Cheeto. He looked quite uncomfortable.

I wonder why witches would want to steal rhubarb. That’s what one of these cretin commenters suggested.

Wicca – I know it’s a huge subject, with many varieties – really appeals to me. Especially since I’ve pretty much soured on my birth religion of Catholicism.

Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
1 year ago

@Dormousing_it

I have a vague memory of that as well, now that you mention in. I wonder if his discomfort was over being touched without his permission, or if it’s simply that he didn’t know how to behave in that situation.

Stealing rhubarb is strange.

Full Metal Ox
1 year ago

@AsAboveSoBelow:

Your Vegan Witches serve as a reminder of the etymology of the word “cauldron”–coming from the Latin calidarium (“cooking pot”) by way of Old Northern French chaudron–which may well tie into the Welsh and Spanish words for soup (cawl and caldo respectively.)

Toss in Bulb of Onion, Cloves of Garlic, Twist of Lemon, and Glob of Miso, and that’ll be a Potent Potion of Protection from Cold and Flu.

@Weird Eddie; @Stephen I Dutch:

Feline nutritionist Natascha Wilkes actually found a use for her kitties’ game offerings: she sent them to a food lab for nutritional analysis, to determine what balance of nutrients would best approximate a cat’s diet in the wild:

http://tcfeline.com/nutritional-analysis-of-mice/

Dalillama
Dalillama
1 year ago

@Moggie

Yer actual Nazi Nazis were heavily into the occult, I believe, though probably only if Aryan dudes were in control of it.

That aspect has been heavily overstated. A couple of prominent Nazis were members of the semimystical Thule Society, but that’s about it.

@Katamount
The Episcopalian Church is a branch of the Anglican communion, with ~1.8 million members in the US.

@Weird Eddie
Yeah, Wicca was invented by Gerald Gardner* in the thirties from a mixture of Margaret Murray, the more accessible bits of Alasteir Crowley, and his own desire to hang out with naked women. Gardner claimed that he was continuing a tradition which had survived underground since pre Christian Europe, but he was lying, or at best misinformed. As for other modern traditions of witchcraft… it really depends on what you mean by witchcraft. Thr Appalachian regions have a long tradition of Granny women and cunning men who practice herbal medicine, provide protective charms, and occasionally divination (‘bible-cracking’ is popular, where you open a bible at random, close your eyes and jab your finger at a verse; in theory, that verse will have relevance to your situation). Are they witches? Are members of shamanic traditions? (That Finnish fellow mentioned earlier might or might not count, depending on when and where you’re talking about).

Re: Christian witches, there’s a number of interesting traditions, though I can’t prove they survive to the present. The Inquisition found many magicians in Iberia and Western France who insisted even under torture that they only did good magic, healing and protection etc. They were let off witha fine and a warning to stop. Italy’s benandanti sent their spirits out at night to battle evil witches, and were reputed to have healing powers. The Inquisition didn’t approve.

*He claimed to have got the basics from a group called the New Forest Coven, which, if they existed, push the invention back 15-20 years.

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
1 year ago

… oh… lord…. Ivanka and e-mail… shall we call this the “margarine-mails” scandal???

“Some aides were startled by the volume of Ivanka Trump’s personal emails — and taken aback by her response when questioned about the practice. She said she was not familiar with some details of the rules, according to people with knowledge of her reaction.”

no sentient being could not know, in 2018, that using a private server to conduct government business is… frowned on

… “oleo-mails”?

… lard….??

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
1 year ago

In response to Ivanka’s e-mail gaffe, the president was heard to say “Lock her up!!”… “… no, NO, not HER, Hillary!!!”

Jane Done
Jane Done
1 year ago

@Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie:

“White genocide” in South Africa is a blatant propogandic Nazi lie.
Long story short, no(white)body cares about the situation so nobody has a lot of (white-man-verified) concrete information on what’s going on (no major western media coverage, no western advocacy group statements, etc)…so in swooped the nazis to fill in the blanks with a metric ton of utterly made-up shit. And one or two tours by literal slavery apologists doing cherry-picked interviewing.

For more, I highly recommend this video, if you’re able to watch:
https://youtu.be/dvlk9Fir5SU

Moon Custafer
Moon Custafer
1 year ago

@ Victorious Parasol:

Rhubarb does take a few years to establish in a garden, so if there local grocery doesn’t have any in stock, I could see a rhubarb-lover being tempted…

Jesalin: Clit-o-centric Lesbian Goddess
Jesalin: Clit-o-centric Lesbian Goddess
1 year ago

An’ it harm none, do as ye will.

Shadowplay
1 year ago

@Dormousing_it, @VP

Rhubarb leaves are a rough but highly effective abortifacient. Don’t know about the US, but that were one of the services the wise ones provided here in the UK back then. (It’s also why most manor houses have large rhubarb beds – servants will play, you know.)

Robert
Robert
1 year ago

From what I’ve read, the ‘Nazi occultism’ memeplex derives from “The Morning of the Magicians” by Pauwels and Bergier, who used Rauschning’s “Hitler Speaks” as a primary source. Unfortunately, the latter work has been determined to be highly unreliable.

At least we got “Hellboy” because of it.

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
1 year ago

@ Jane Done:

I watched the first five minutes, I don’t have time now to watch the rest. The beginning reminds me of “The Blair Witch Project”… which nicely ties this topic in with the original!! 🙂 🙂 🙂

I haven’t seen any evidence of state-sponsored murder of white farmers. The right-wing pundits clamoring about it don’t even offer non-credible evidence, just testimony, usually not first-person, and innuendo. I’m sure there are white farmers being murdered — the murder rate in South Africa is pretty horrendous right now. And if there are white farmers being murdered by black people just because they’re white, well I’m not f’ing surprised. The brutalist white-minority dictatorship ended in this generation, and there is likely a STRONG sentiment of… vengeance. One of the right-wing Nazi propagandists in the news is Simon Roche:

comment image

seen here at the 2017 Charlotte U-White-U-Right rally… no doubt one of the “very fine people” the blunderbuss-in-chief spoke of….

Dalillama
Dalillama
1 year ago

@Jesalin
That’s one of the bits he cribbed from Crowley, but he modified it; the original was “Do What Thou Wilt shall be the whole of the Law”. There’s a lotta arglebargle about True Will involved too.

Diptych
Diptych
1 year ago

Well, there’s bad shit like wars, income inequality, spiralling debt, extreme weather events, the opioid epidemic, police brutality, and antibiotic resistance. Surely this must all be the fault of gothy women, somehow?

Most of those are things the right are greatly in favour of, and half the rest are things they’re happy to deny are real problems. I feel like they don’t have nearly as much to complain about as they claim they do!

tim gueguen
1 year ago

Regarding Jordan Peterson he put out a statement within the last two or three weeks denouncing anti-Semitism, so I would imagine some of his far right fans have suddenly decided he’s their enemy now.

Robert
Robert
1 year ago

Tim Gueguen, you imagine correctly. The kerfuffle on the Peterson Reddit resulting from that was almost comical. The conflict between the affronted fashies and the apologetic Troo Bleevers was full of sound and fury.

Pie
Pie
1 year ago

@Bina

Huh. And here I thought those attention-hungry bozos would love him because he affirms their hatred for unmanly men and unwomanly women and other, harder-to-stereotype folk.

Well, you’ve got to see it from teddy’s point of view… telling implausible stories and spreading hate filled, misogynistic, racist, bigoted bullshit and christian apologetics was his game. Who the fuck does peterson think he is, coming from nowhere and raking in hundreds of thousands of dollars from internet assholes? He doesn’t even have a fucking sword.

Etc etc. I expect milo feels the same way, except less religious and less slovenly.

KG
KG
1 year ago

I don’t think Milo and Teddy need be too worried about JP stealing their suckers – we’ve clearly passed peak Jordan Peterson. These days, whole threads mocking him can go without a single fanboi turning up to defend their hero for days.

Weatherwax
Weatherwax
1 year ago

@Dormousing_it

I wonder why witches would want to steal rhubarb.

Well, my brain – on hearing “witches” and “rhubarb” close together – immediately turns to Pratchett. It so often does.

Nanny Ogg is caught saying “rhubarb rhubarb” to blend in with a flaming torches-bearing mob. I’m pretty sure it’s in Maskerade, but it might be Carpe Jugulum instead. Is it possible someone wildly misunderstood?

Skylalalalalalala
Skylalalalalalala
1 year ago

Shadowplay
November 20, 2018 at 7:01 pm
Rhubarb leaves are a rough but highly effective abortifacient. Don’t know about the US, but that were one of the services the wise ones provided here in the UK back then. (It’s also why most manor houses have large rhubarb beds – servants will play, you know.)

Hopefully women in Ohio are aware of this option. They may need it far sooner than anyone imagined if that current bill doesn’t get vetoed in time & the case makes its way to the Supreme Court.

Pie
Pie
1 year ago

@ Shadowplay

Rhubarb leaves are a rough but highly effective abortifacient.

Not particularly. The leaves are toxic, and might kill you if you’ve got kidney issues. The roots will give you the shits and might possibly stimulate uterine muscle contractions, but the link is pretty tenuous. Rhubarb extracts have been used as laxatives in pregnant women in more recent years (actual clinical trials, and stuff) without any obvious issues with miscarriages. Sure, it has been claimed to be useful for abortion for a good couple of thousand years, but that doesn’t make it so.

Pennyroyal is much more effective, though it is still pretty toxic as are most other herbal abortifacients. I wouldn’t want to place any bets on whether dubious herbal toxins or back alley surgery is the more dangerous option.

(It’s also why most manor houses have large rhubarb beds – servants will play, you know.)

Probably they just liked the taste. Not everything has a secret purpose, you know 😉

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Reading this thread, I’m now wondering why alternative natural abortions aren’t a popular thing. Just given how ubiquitous it is otherwise. Why isn’t Goop on this? Don’t get me wrong though. I’m glad pseudoscience peddlers aren’t selling herbal abortions.

I guess it doesn’t fit in with perfect pretty wealthy white lady image people use to sell phony medicines and wellness products. Gwenyth Paltrow would surely never be flawed and human enough to have ever had an unplanned pregnancy.

Red R. Lion
Red R. Lion
1 year ago

@WWTH

I think herbal abortions are still a thing, it’s just that they tend to be ineffective at best, and deadly to the mother at worst. And some of them will cause birth defects if they fail.

Re: Rhubarb, I’ve never heard of it inducing abortions, although the old wives tale said that stimulating the bowels will stimulate the uterus. Hence why many women that are desperate at 41 weeks of pregnancy end up taking mineral oil and eating spicy foods, only to end up still miserably pregnant, but now with the runs. (Don’t ask me how I know this).

My experience is the only thing that induces uterine contractions during late pregnancy is sex and hysterical crying. In whichever order. Maybe together.

OT, how do you guys change your avatar? Mine looks like a red Swastika. 🤬😡😡

Marshmallow Stacey Maximal (formerly bluecat)
Marshmallow Stacey Maximal (formerly bluecat)
1 year ago

Re: Helen Duncan (Hellish Nell) there’s a fascinating review by Hilary Mantel of a study of her case

https://www.lrb.co.uk/v23/n09/hilary-mantel/the-dead-are-all-around-us

re: rhubarb – I suspect the reason for having a lot of rhubarb around manor houses was that the British upper classes were often severely, and I mean severely, constipated.

The commonest remedy for doctors to be asked for seems to have been anything that could make you go, plus salves for piles etc. Rhubarb seems also to have been of of many things thought of as good for syphilis – though of course it isn’t.

As for witch trials – here in England we hanged them. rather than burned them, and it was not uncommon for people to be acquitted – at least initially: people were often accused repeatedly over the years until some charge stuck or they found a judge prepared to convict.

Whereas in some cantons of Switzerland and France, where torture was commonly used and where diabolic and “spirit” evidence was permitted, it was almost impossible to be acquitted. Which is very Trumpy indeed: who needs facts? Who needs information? The Orange One feels something is true, and as Newt Gringrich said, he’ll take feelings over facts any day.

We got a taste of what that was like during the Civil War when Matthew Hopkins managed to run his own personal reign of terror in East Anglia. One of the great unfortunate characters of history is a local baker called Meggs who had a mole on his arm, and decided to go to Norwich when Hopkins was running his witch trials in order to get his name cleared. He walked seven miles of his own volition – because he knew he was not a witch and that his birthmark could not be a witch mark. Except of course Hopkins thought different, and Meggs was hanged as a witch in the market place.

Pie
Pie
1 year ago

@Red R. Lion

Hence why many women that are desperate at 41 weeks of pregnancy end up taking mineral oil and eating spicy foods, only to end up still miserably pregnant, but now with the runs. (Don’t ask me how I know this).

There’s a lot of nonsense around non-medical ways to induce a late baby. One of my friends even resorted to moxibustion, which I’d never even heard of before.

Its easy for such things to get a reputation for effectiveness… mother is overdue, does a thing, goes into labor, decides it was the thing that made it work. In reality, the baby was very likely to come soon anyway, regardless of the things you do to yourself..

My experience is the only thing that induces uterine contractions during late pregnancy is sex and hysterical crying. In whichever order. Maybe together.

Lactation is supposed to help, too, but even that isn’t guaranteed. We froze a load of colostrum in advance of baby number 2 putting in an appearance, but they were still 12 days late.

OT, how do you guys change your avatar? Mine looks like a red Swastika. 🤬

Pay a visit to gravatar.com

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
1 year ago

@ marshmallow

Thanks for that link; it was an interesting read.

I also noticed this bit.

If as a young man, he (Churchill) had consulted an astrologer, then he was a natural leader for a nation that employed state stargazers to track the forecasts of their Nazi counterparts.

As people may know, there was an ‘Occult Bureau’ within the war department. They didn’t believe it themselves, but they knew some Nazis did; so they produced horoscopes in the method used by the Nazi astrologers to get an idea of what they were being advised.

They also hatched a plot where they produced a fake old book; ‘Nostradamus predicts the course of the war’. It predicted the course of the war to date quite accurately (unsurprisingly); but then foretold lots of doom and gloom. They then planted that in a bookshop they knew one of the German astrologers frequented, in the hope it would come to the attention of the Ahnenerbe and the more occult minded Nazis.

Kiwiwriter
Kiwiwriter
1 year ago

One of the ironies in that campaign is that Rudolph Hess believed in astrology and psychic stuff, and their prognostications helped fuel his flight to England in 1941.

The enraged Nazi leadership reacted by locking up all the psychics in Berlin and other cities in Gestapo raids, with their usual efficiency and brutality.

The amazing part — everyone of them was taken by surprise.

Joseph Goebbels noted that in his diary, and added, “A poor advertisement for their profession!”