By David Futrelle
It’s not just the incels who are utterly obsessed with the semen of other men. Nope. So are the (allegedly) voluntarily celibate guys who call themselves Men Going Their Own Way.
Despite their constant claims to no longer care for or about women, MGTOWs spend an inordinate amount of their time obsessing about all the sex they imagine these allegedly unimportant women are having with men, especially if it involves certain rather ordinary sexual activities that MGTOWs seem to have collectively decided are both super fun and deeply degenerate — like anal sex, or, perhaps even worse, blowjobs that involve the ingestion of a couple of milliliters of semen.
MGTOWs — like a lot of other misogynistic men who are deeply jealous of every man having more sex than them — have redefined the word “cuckold” to include pretty much any man who has sex with a woman who has ever had sex before. And this cuckery goes double, apparently, if the woman has ever had butt sex or swallowed.
It’s even worse if a guy actually goes and marries one of these degenerate anal and/or oral sex havers.
Take it away, irate guy in the MGTOW subreddit:
These guys — like many others in the manosphere — have thoroughly convinced themselves that any woman who has ever been with more than one man will be forever incapable of true love. Those slutty, slutty grapes are apparently very sour!
Dude, I’m pretty sure these women are more than capable of love. They’re just unable to love you. Because, seriously, who on earth could?
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@CarrieV, I hope you’ve managed to get yourself some sleep by this point!
@Button, Buttercup,
Im’a do a recap of what we know about this nonsense, for anyone new to the site.
That’s one of the weirder and (to me at least) most annoying features of the manosphere, in my opinion. You’re exactly right, they think that women – and only women – will “pair-bond” with the first man they sleep with. Specifically that physical contact with semen triggers neurological changes in a woman’s brain to make her *love* the man who done did it.
They believe this because they’re gullible assholes who will blithely believe anything you tell them so long as you have at least one poorly-constructed and badly-misinterpreted scientific paper to back you up, and so long as that paper says things that lets them believe something they want to believe.
In this case, they refer to a study that shows that exposure to sex chemicals of the opposite sex can trigger a release of dopamine in the brain. They figure this means that women, on coming into contact with semen, permanently alters their brains to attach to the person around them (which is a horrible misinterpretation of what that dopamine would do). If they don’t stay in a relationship with that dood, they claim the next dopamine response is weaker, and so on, so by the time you hit five partners (a number they produce ex culus) they say that the response disappears.
In other words, they figure that their magic semen is the only way women could possibly love anyone, and the magic will only work if the woman hasn’t already been exposed to it.
When they say “femoids aren’t real people,” that’s what they actually mean. They’re vile. I’m not even going to get into the layers of stupid wrongness.
Oh, fun fact! The study doesn’t specify men or women, it’s a response that happens to both as far as we know! Men also have a dopamine response on exposure to a woman’s sexual chemicals. And these MGTOW know it too! See, if a woman touches a man’s sexual fluids, she falls in love, but if a man touches a woman’s zombifying vagina goo he becomes her zombie cuck slave! I’d even link to the articles that David’s written about it, ’cause it’s the exact same study they’re referring to!
But, y’see, friends, men are naturally more scientific. They just have an instinctive grasp of truth and logic. They could never be misled by their own biases to believe something wrong just because it makes them feel good. How preposterous!
Ugh. And now, a hot shower and a stiff bristle brush to peel off my outer layer of skin. These guys are gross.
@ Scildfreja:
I know it’s ugly and wrong… but I can’t help myself…
… why do you think they call it “dope”-amine???
… I’ll show myself out….
@Weird Eddie
Interesting. I’ll have to check out a demographic breakdown of who consumes what genre… it would be quite illuminating.
@ Katamount:
DO!! I’d like to know if it’s incels/migtoes/mras who are consuming cuck porn….
that would be a difficult link to quantify, but if the data showed a strong trend of white-men-who-identify-as-conservative… it would be interesting. To say the least. Actually, I’m just looking for something I can use to “own the incels” with… nothing evil, just misandrist, judgmental and stereotyping….
@ Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie.
After reading this, I’m in two minds about the way the neurological embuggerance compromises my nervous system’s dopamine production – less of an inconvenient libido (if it actually is a mediator of that,) but I could do without the intermittent partial paralysis.
The first guy you quoted misspelled “what the fuck”, which is quite an achievement.
WWTH:
PUAs are exactly like aspiring future millionaires, while MRAs are more like middle class kids who get excited over a socialist revolution they don’t actually expect to ever happen. Meanwhile, MGTOW are hoping they can incite others to do the revolution for them. Incels are like kids who call it “revolution” when they psych each other up to vandalize someone else’s property.
Yeah, it is, but this is what these guys want to believe. They want to believe that sex is something so powerful that doing it to a woman fundamentally changes her, permanently. Because the alternative, that it’s just an activity that some folks choose to mutually engage in to have a good time, is a horrifying thing to consider when you’ve based your entire identity and sense of self worth around it. Sex has to be something world-shaking, something that they have unimaginable power in. (Or at least they would if those damn slutty sluts didn’t keep letting other guys be powerful instead of them, waaaah.)
The “imprinting” myth does pre-date the current generation of manospherians, though – I’ve seen it mentioned in older works, sometimes as an argument for Why A Woman Should Save Herself For Marriage (or at least select the first guy carefully, because she will desire that Type forevermore).
I think it’s also the subtext (not even that sub) of the song “The First Cut Is The Deepest,” which explains my distaste for said song.
I heard that “imprinting” thing a long time ago, tho in a discussion of musical tastes… the music you like as an adolescent (junior high school to be exact) will govern your musical taste for your life.
I dunno, I’ve read some research on the music thing, and it seems reasonable, tho “taste” is a concept that resists definition. The woman thing, I’ve not researched, but the hypothesis just SCREAMS “confirmation bias”….
My son is a hateful incel, and I just cannot save him or defend him anymore.
Anyone else read this yet? 🙁
@Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Well, I’ve heard that serotonin both causes and justifies patriarchial social structures, and if you believe that you can believe pretty much anything else, biochemistry-wise.
@Weird Eddie
I had a think about this one, and it appears to be true enough for many people, given their ongoing habit of listening to dross that should have been buried and forgotten years ago (though I always assumed terrible musical tastes formed in late adolescence rather than early).
I wonder though. I think many people get “old” (eg, hit the wall :-O ) and just don’t have the same immersion in popular culture that they used to and what with working all the hours and/or raising a family they don’t get out much and just kinda settle into a rut and stop listening to or being interested in newer things.
I decided that if I could learn to at least tolerate the taste of olives and appreciate whisky in adulthood, I could damn well learn to like that crazy noise those darn kids pretend is music. I’m not sure it has done much for my neuroplasticity, but it has introduced me to some interesting things that I actually like. (and also some stuff i used to like just annoys me now, but maybe it was always crap and I’ve only just realized)
@ Moon_custafer:
Time has taken a toll on some of those junior high favorites of mine, usually because I was encouraged to take a critical look at the lyrics, the artist, or both…. I had not thought of “First Cut…” in those terms… thanx.
For posterity, here is “First Cut… ” original artist P. P. Arnold tuning up the Stones’ “As Tears Go By”
… and her classic Everything’s Gonna Be Alright”
@Katamount:
I remember a few years back, somebody was pointing out that one of the big differences of 4chan versus blogs was precisely that lack of history. Things would get posted up, and then fall off the front page, and be ignored or forgotten from that point on. And that attitude always tripped them up when they showed up on blogs like here, where they would often get responses like ‘you realize we haven’t forgotten what you said yesterday and can just link to the last page, don’t you?’
In some ways, Trump is the epitome of that sort of thinking: living in an eternal now where what he said yesterday means nothing, and what he says today is all that matters, even if it’s the exact opposite of what he said yesterday. (And he doesn’t entirely have social media to blame, as he was like that long ago.)
I like history. I’ve commented before in places that I know more about Canadian history than most people, but only because that’s a disturbingly low bar to clear. But I like seeing the flows and interactions.
(Granted, I was also reading Frank Herbert’s Dune at age eleven, so I may be a bit unusual in that.)
I think people in general need to be taught not just more critical thinking, but some sort of a basic theory of history, so they understand that actions have long-term consequences.
“The maple syrup must flow!”
K. I read the story but had some doubts as to authenticity. Just too perfect a narrative of awfulness. And while people do seek help and support via the internet when overwhelmed by events, I cannot see Reddit being anyone’s first choice.
Not to mention that if a minor child was assaulted in my home, I would be morally (and legally) obligated to do something more than put the burden on the child by crying and asking them to forgive.
So yeah, I’m going with fake on the OP, but I did believe some of the responses where people spoke of their own personal and familial experiences.
@Alan:
*laughs*
That said, climate change could have an effect on the maple syrup flow:
Please, not the syrup. Climate change could extinguish sugar maple growth
Based on the numbers in there, something like 61% of the world’s maple syrup production comes from Quebec. And a 5℃ rise in temperature over the next century will pretty much spell the end of the species.
I suppose sometimes you have to make it personal to get people to pay attention…
@Jenora Feuer re maple trees: it’s also possible that maple trees will be found in more northern regions, just like many other species. The current forests, however, are probably doomed. :/
@K. I hope it’s a fabricated story, but I don’t know. Someone went to a great deal of trouble with it, if it is. It seems like it could be an amalgamation of a number of different anecdotes.
I’m glad I never had children. I just don’t think I’d be able to deal with it, not in the internet age. How could I compete with all the video games and porn available, non-stop, when it came to having an influence on my child?
So, maple syrup is going to get even more expensive than it already is. I love the stuff. Many years ago, during a trip to Quebec, I bought these tasty little maple leaf shaped and maple flavored sandwich cookies. I never saw them in a U.S. store.
@ Jenora Feuer:
nope… you got to make it CO$$$T them….
AAAAIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!! :0 :0 :0
@ K.; AuntieMameRedux:
content warning for poorly supported conclusions and rash generalizations… but here goes anyway.
I think a lot of people who make up the traffic on socially conservative web sites have trouble imagining someone else’s viewpoint. Like the O.P. noted above, who doesn’t know the mind of a (probably) middle-class white father who’s son is rebelling. Thus, the O.P. doesn’t realize that this man would not post on Reddit, indeed likely wouldn’t POST this at all.
The conspiracy fantasists create an absurd tale of a former U.S. Secretary of State being involved in a child sex trafficking ring… because, of course… she’s EVIL. They set the ground zero for the fantasy in a pizza parlor in D.C. Because they don’t know the minds of the mega-wealthy and mega-powerful who would be involved in this nonsense, they don’t realize that, if this were anything but bad detective novel shit, it would be headquartered out of a $2000-a-night suite in Dubai. The former U.S. Secretary of State isn’t going to hang with folks who frequent the Comet Pizza Parlor.
This disconnect runs through and through the igno-right fantasies. You trace the beginnings of the “Soros funds the protests” fantasy, and it wanders back in time and deeper into the rent-a-reddit world until the trail dries up at “some guy I know SAW a Craig’sList ad!!!” Or, to quote the shirtless shithead of holler-louder-n-YouTube, “How else do you explain the shadow in this picture????”
They don’t know the mind of the mega-wealthy, so they don’t realize that George Soros isn’t going to take out a Craig’sList ad. If he wants to generate some outrage, he’ll do what the Koch Brothers did in Wichita (when they were trying to buy a Kansas Supreme Court for Sam Brownshirt)… he’ll rent some billboards/internet/newspaper space and print up some outrage-driving stuff. The igno-right also doesn’t realize that Soros, nor anyone else NEEDED to fund protests. The election of the dumpster-fire-in-chief put several classes of people at risk of life and limb.
We all know who was at those protests. We know the fears and the anger. The sense of impending doom.
NOTE: it does not matter for my point if those fears were real or not. The ignolectuals on the dark web argue that the protests had to be created and funded from a liberal organization because “the things the protestors were afraid of weren’t true.” But the people who were out in the streets felt their fears were real. The igno-right KNOW that the people in the streets felt their fears were real — the igno-right mocked them mercilessly because of those fears, the igno-right made it VERY clear that those fears WERE well-founded.
So… what the fuck maked the igno-right think George Soros WOULD HAVE TO PAY THE PROTESTORS???!!!???
Simple. The igno-right is incapable of knowing the mind of a person who has (literally in some cases) just been given a choice between being sexually assaulted by a privileged white man, being shot by the cops, or being stripped of citizenship and deported.
As the bible says (paraphrasing, here) “Thou knowest not whereof thou speaketh… thou knowest not the [shit] even unto the apple butter….”
I can see it now, the sap’s running on Cornwallis island, we’re hitchin a boat to Resolute
Sap time, sap time coming around
Up from the roots way down in the ground
Up through the trunks to the tips of the trees
Sure tastes good to me, Oh Yeah!
Sure tastes good to me
It’s just before spring we’re gonna make that commute
To the Arctic Archipelago and old Resolute
Where the sun ain’t rose yet, so the nights are still cold
And you find maple trees, more valuable than gold
When that maple nectar starts flowing so fine
We’re gonna make a fortune a bucket at a… Chorus
@ AuntieMameRedux,
Self and drinking buds here read K’s linked thread, and the details are kind of maybe – conforming to a narrative.
But there might be a serious reason for this – the writer might be trying to obscure details out of fear. Or even just to get some points across.
Self and drinking buds. Hitting the bottle here because our one friend here is worried about a stalker. Details? Fits the classic stalker stereotype. With some particular details that don’t need to be mentioned because it might call the attention of the guy.
Yes the internet is a big place and it’s unlikely that this guy would read things here, but you never know. Or someone he knows might read here and say – Hey, Fellow Asshole, this sounds like you!
So it’s possible that the writer of that thread obscured their exact details with common ones, because of fear.
Sure it could be some troll looking to provoke people also. Could be anything. If it is real, the writer’s worry and fear for their child do come across. It seems it’s what they’re trying to say, and maybe made up simple details to try to get the tale across.
We all here have tales of asshole men that some might find unbelievable. To keep it simple, if the Chicago cops and criminal street gangs, are looking to lay a serious beating on you – yeah, you might be an asshole.
Awful people are real.
Maybe the person who wrote that was a troll trying to provoke responses, maybe they are dealing with a real situation and trying to obscure details.
Not good, in any case 🙁
“The First Cut is the Deepest” was sung by Cat Stevens (a guy) back in the 70s. So the original is a guy being hurt by a woman.
Cat Stevens
@Cat Mara,
That could be a possible afterlife encounter, though I did hear a story (told by SF/comicbook writer Peter David) that Lee and Kirby quite likely patched things up between them a fair bit not long before Kirby’s death.
Besides, I like this version of an afterlife for them better:
They could always go out to California and deal with the fires out there before they (somehow) get worse than they are now.
You’d be surprised. That detail didn’t ring fake to me at all, because a lot of people wouldn’t consider what he did to her as a crime, and he was still under 18 at the time.
Several years ago, I had a large group of Twitter friends. One of the women & her husband needed a nanny to replace the one they’d had before. One of the other women suggested one of her daughters, who was just barely 18 and wasn’t sure what to do with her life next. So, the daughter goes halfway across the country to work for this Twitter friend. I should point out this women had kids under 5 and everyone loved her, thought she was great. Thought it was great her & her husband had started getting into polyamory/swinging and had saved their marriage by figuring out what they really needed. All was well for a few months, until they had a party at their house and the brother of this woman’s current boyfriend assaulted the nanny. Bad enough that she’d put this young woman, the daughter of a friend, at risk (not to mention her own children), but she flat out refused to admit any responsibility for it at all. All her posts were basically “woe is me” “it’s so awful this happened to me” “why is everyone mad at me, i’m the victim here”. Some of the “I’m a victim here” crap was because the parents of the young woman immediately got her the hell out of there & home so she could heal, so this woman was left without a nanny again.
She did absolutely nothing about getting the guy charged – because that might interfere with her relationship with his brother.
I stopped following her not long after she took her account private when so many people sided with the mother of the girl rather than her. I sometimes wonder about her kids and hope they’re safe.
So, all that to say that even when people know something is a crime, that happened in their own home, they don’t always report it.
K., I read that. As I’ve commented on the repost to IncelTears, the original comments had an interesting mix of ‘this is obviously fake’ to ‘I know a guy just like that!’. I’m undecided on whether or not to believe it, but I’m convinced that situations almost identical to it have happened and continue to happen.
Regarding maple syrup (which I love with a purple passion): back in the XIXth century, caviar and lobster were cheap and plentiful. For a variety of reasons, they are no longer either. I can imagine my son telling his grandchildren, “When I was your age, we bought that stuff by the bottle and poured it on pancakes!”
@Robert:
True, lobster used to be a poor person’s food. Lobster in the Canadian Maritimes used to be like potatoes for the Irish: the stuff the locals subsisted on while all the more ‘important’ stuff was sold to the foreign owners.
@ Skylalalalalalala:
There’s also the issue of what the poster thinks the local cops would take seriously as a crime, even if he knows what his son did was wrong – they might laugh it off with “boys will be boys” even if the guy’s own parents turn him in (probably the more likely scenario); conversely, they might arrest all adults in the household, or at least call CPS to take the daughter away from the parents who reported it.
@Jenora Feuer:
There’s a minor detail in a 1940s movie that fascinates/slightly annoys me: a scene takes place in Dr. Samuel Johnson’s house, by that time a museum – a guide is recounting that Dr. Johnson’s cat, Hodge, used to subsist on oysters (true) and that “many a time the great Doctor went without his own supper to provide Hodge with that delicacy,” which is wrongity wrong, because not only were Johnson’s finances reasonably stable by that time in his life, but oysters, at least the more common species, were the canned tuna of the eighteenth century. Dr. Johnson’s quirk was in going down to the fish market to buy them for Hodge himself, because he didn’t want to put his servants to such a menial task and possibly make them resent the cat. (Mind you, the guide then goes on to claim Johnson died “of gout. Just gout,” so possibly the audience is not meant to read him as completely accurate in his facts.
@Clever name here:
That I didn’t know, though I still think my interpretation could apply regardless of gender (even if the the manosphere would couch it in zombifying vagina-goo terms).
My late grandmother often told me that when she was a child, her mother would give the family smoked salmon for supper because it was so cheap and available – it was the no-brainer supper for when other things were too dear or there wasn’t time to do a better, “proper” meal.
She and her siblings used to complain about smoked salmon for supper again.
Wow, this is pretty gutsy to say.. how can one come to a conclusion like this so quickly??? We need to do a better job educating..